Dignity First, Trust Follows, Outcomes Change with Shawn Gibbs

0:01John Lee Dumas:Boom, shake the room, Fire Nation. JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire, brought to you by HighLevel, the all-in-one sales and marketing platform. Today we'll be breaking down dignity first, trust follows, outcomes change. And to drop these value bombs, I brought to Shawn Gibbs and the EO Fire Studios. Shawn is the co-founder and CEO of Give Gowns, G-I-V Gowns. He is a medical provider and serial entrepreneur who spent 15 years on every side of healthcare, then built a system that designs trust into the care experience. So today we talk about trust before treatment, the trust architecture, the one shared problem, how dignity drives outcomes, irreplaceable providers, and oh, so much more.

0:41John Lee Dumas:And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Sean and our sponsors. Fire Nation, is your business stuck? Join Eric Trump and Clay Clark's life-changing business conference, November 5th and 6th in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Learn the specific proven systems Clay Clark has used to create thousands of success stories today at thrivetimeshow.com slash EO fire. Again, request tickets today at thrivetimeshow.com slash EO fire. Stop duct taping your business together. High Level runs your website, your funnels, email, automation, scheduling, payments, and memberships all in one place. And when you sign up at highlevelfire.com, you get a 30 day free trial plus my exclusive bonus stack that includes weekly office hours with me and much more.

1:23John Lee Dumas:Visit highlevelfire.com, highlevelfire.com. Sean, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. Hello, Fire Nation. Glad to be here. Thanks for letting me join you. Great question, Sean. I love this question, actually, because I get kicked back on this a lot. I think that the word successful has a lot of definitions and we get to choose what that means sometimes. And I don't think that gets as much play as it should. I believe that if someone is honest about what they actually want and they're taking steps to work toward and achieve that, I would put that in the category of successful.

2:11And conversely, if someone deems successful is, for example, having a lot of money, but they despise the way that they get it and they hate their life and they're not happy, I wouldn't call that being successful. So I get pushback on that sometimes. But that's my feeling on it.

2:28John Lee Dumas:Dignity first. Trust follows. Outcomes change. And I want to talk, Sean, about trust before treatment, because you say in your line of work, which of course we discussed in the introduction, that patients decide whether to trust their care before the provider even walks in the room, which is crazy to me. So what's happening in that moment and what are healthcare systems missing? What's really happening in that moment from just my 15 years of doing this is that people are really looking for something to help them feel safe. and to calm their anxiety and their self-consciousness, their fear of exposure.

3:06I mean, a lot of very few people go into a health care exchange because they just want to hang out with their doctor. Right there. They're anticipating something. They have something. So it's nerve wracking. And health care systems are really missing opportunities to address a person's dignity first and foremost. and opportunities to show people that they value them and they respect them and to ultimately earn trust and continued engagement in their kind of clinic and organization. And if you want to keep the lights on, you need people coming back to you over time. So addressing dignity first really does make a massive impact in the way treatment goes.

3:44John Lee Dumas:And I think a lot of people don't really put enough weight into the quote by Maya Angelou, which is like, people, they'll forget what you say. They'll forget what you do. They'll forget literally everything about you, but they will never forget the way you make them feel. Like, how are you making people feel? Are they feeling dignified in that moment? And that's a great segue into the trust architectures. Can you break down your two-phased trust architecture for Fire Nation right now? My kind of 15 years of business and medical experiences taught me that any healthy, enduring relationship has to be based on whether the two parties trust each other.

4:24Without that, just the likelihood of the relationship continuing is super duper small. I've never seen it be effective. And so the best way to earn trust in this example, kind of before a provider ever enters a room into a healthcare setting is to provide some kind of a physical trust signal is what I call it, that a person puts on themselves to help offset some of those feelings they had coming into this. They need to feel safe and valued and respected, right, i.e. dignified, that whole definition. And I created an entire company called GiveGowns, G-I-V, where they were created for that moment for nearly every health care setting.

5:03So that's one kind of side of it is a physical trust signal. Once that dignity is addressed, now these people, they now extend their trust, that next massive part of any kind of healthy relationship. And that second part of this whole architecture is what I call the irreplaceable provider method, where providers, organizations, leaders, they learn how to receive that trust in those important interactions. They they now become irreplaceable because they're now the ones that people choose to return to and refer to because they've earned that person's trust. So there's this relational trust signal and this physical trust signal.

5:48And together they create this architecture that puts people in a position to really see so much better outcomes.

5:55John Lee Dumas:I love that. The physical signals before health care begins, Fire Nation, and the relational methods that sustain trust during that interaction. So let's talk about the one shared problem, Sean. I mean, after 15 years of clinical practice, I mean, you've been at this for almost two decades, running clinics, brokering their sale. What did you uncover as the one problem every sector of health care shares? Yeah, I see this in health care. I see it in business. It's super duper common, but they act without intentionality. Right. They I don't see them designing and addressing that dignity aspect and intentionally trying to earn the trust of a patient.

6:41And they create these goals and cute catchphrases and stencils to put on walls and they're doing build outs of waiting rooms and all this with this hope that people will flock to them for it. And then the eventual outcome of that is they're just coming to me to find out why their three million dollar waiting room build out isn't seen in ROI. So it's really a lack of intentionality and a lack of designing to earn a person's trust and address their dignity is a common shared problem in healthcare.

7:11John Lee Dumas:Act without intentionality. So you kind of gave a little micro real world example, but give us like a bigger real world example of that happening and, you know, you seeing it as a common thing, you know, with all healthcare and across all healthcare or maybe a client that you helped. Like, what is one real world example? I did give a little bit of a snippet there, but the one I turn to all the time is when I had this healthcare system approach me to come in and say, I want you to come in and train some of our providers, executive leadership on this whole dignity trust model. And I said, okay, great.

7:46Came in, walked through it, did a half day. I thought it went great. And then kind of came back around in a week to do a follow-up. And they said, OK, we've decided what we're going to do is we're going to update our waiting rooms in all of our clinics. And I said, well, how how exactly are you assuming that that is going to address the dignity of a patient and earn trust? And and they really hadn't. It was just, again, like, well, if we make the waiting rooms nicer, it'll make people feel good. And and then they'll want to come in more often and that'll generate revenue and yada, yada, yada. And it was just this, there wasn't a lot of intentionality or direct design.

8:25It was, well, what's the easiest dart to throw in the dark here? And it's like, well, let's throw money into a waiting room and hope that gives people the feel goods. But clearly it didn't. And then I came back to them and they wanted me to help them restructure on how to get an ROI out of their waiting room. And they just still weren't seeing that that is not what solves the problem.

8:44John Lee Dumas:It is crazy when you like sit down and you train somebody and you really think you got across to them because they're nodding and they're smiling and they're maybe seeing a comment here and there. And then you come back around, you know, days, weeks, months later. And it's just like, you literally understood nothing of what I was saying. I mean, you were nodding, smiling, doing all the right things, but like there was no understanding of the core principles and fire nation. We're going to be talking about how dignity drives outcomes, irreplaceable providers, lessons for you, for entrepreneurs and more.

9:11John Lee Dumas:When we get back from thinking our sponsors, fire nation is your business stuck. Join Eric Trump and Clay Clark's life-changing business conference, November 5th and 6th in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Learn the specific proven systems Clay Clark has used to create thousands of millionaire success stories. See thousands of success stories and testimonials from real people just like you who Clay Clark has mentored and coached into prosperity at thrivetimeshow.com slash EOFire. Clay's proven business coaching program is month-to-month and it costs less money than hiring a minimum wage employee. Yes, it's month-to-month and costs less money than hiring a minimum wage employee.

9:44John Lee Dumas:Schedule your free personal 13-point assessment with Clay Clark himself. today at thrivetimeshow.com slash eofire. Because Clay only takes on 160 clients and only allows 300 attendees to each business conference, you will interact with Clay directly, see thousands of real success stories, and learn about attending the Thrive Time Show two-day in-person workshops featuring football star and entrepreneur Tim Tebow and President Trump's son, Eric Trump, today at thrivetimeshow.com slash eofire. Become the next success story. Schedule a free consultation and request tickets to join football star and entrepreneur Tim Tebow and President Trump's son, Eric Trump, at Clay Clark's next business conference today at thrivetimeshow.com slash EOFire.

10:23John Lee Dumas:Fire Nation, ideas are exciting, but systems will allow you to create freedom. That is where High Level comes in. High Level allows you to build and run your entire business from one platform. Website builder and hosting, funnel and landing pages, email marketing, automation and workflows, calendar booking, payments and subscriptions, even course and membership hosting, everything works together seamlessly. Plus, award-winning 24-7 support so you are never stuck. And when you go through my link at highlevelfire.com, you unlock my full bonus stack, a 30-day free trial of High Level with full access, a private 50-minute coaching call with me, weekly live office hours with me, a digital copy of my book, The Common Path to Uncommon Success, my 50 Days to Something execution roadmap, and more.

11:09John Lee Dumas:Stop piecing tools together. Start building momentum. Visit highlevelfire.com. and start building your something today. Sean, we're back, and I want to talk about how. How dignity drives outcomes, because you talk about the cascade. Dignity, trust, confidence, engagement, outcomes. Why is this the structure, and how does it impact real results? Primarily, it's not just sentiment to me, because I've just seen it work so many times when it's actually applied. Going back to what you brought up before the break of just when somebody actually decides to implement these things, they work, they're structured that way.

11:51But more importantly, because it speaks really to the heart of and directly addresses the thing that we all have in common, and we make nearly all of our decisions around, which are our human emotions. We've all got them, patient, provider, everyone. And the way we feel produces emotions and those emotions affect our behavior, the choices that we make and our behavior affects our outcomes. Right. So bring in that full circle when someone feels valued and respected for just the simple fact that they're a human being, i.e. dignified, they begin to trust you. and once someone extends their trust they now become confident in that relationship confidence breeds further engagement and i think all of us can can uh see ourselves in this but once a person is actively engaged they're going to see better outcomes in in health care this is when the i'm having a little bit of chest pain is managed early and the heart attack is avoided This is the strange mole in the strange spot that was uncomfortable, so it was avoided.

13:03But in this circumstance, it gets checked. It gets removed early. It doesn't become this crazy melanoma that could eventually take a life. Outcomes really do change when that dignity aspect is addressed very first, primarily. And I always see that chain of command work.

13:23John Lee Dumas:Let's talk about irreplaceable providers, because let's be honest, we live in the age of AI right now. It's all around us. It's left, it's right, it's up, it's down, it's center. So what makes a provider truly irreplaceable? And what are the best clinicians doing differently? The irreplaceable providers, often the best ones, I might add, they're the ones that are leaning into the informed patients of 2026, right? Not making them feel silly for doing their own research. They're recognizing that they aren't the gatekeepers and the source of all information anymore with AI. People have more knowledge now.

14:03They're doing their own research beforehand, and the irreplaceable ones are allowing for it. They're obviously going in and clarifying these erroneous assumptions for sure that's the job but they're intentionally designing an experience into their facilities so that people feel dignified and that's where give cans that's where the irreplaceable provider method that's where this training comes in to help them with presence and connection and relationship they recognize that there are tools and they can use those tools in their arsenal to create a different experience for today's patients they're irreplaceable

14:42John Lee Dumas:And I will tell you, Fire Nation, you've got to be intentional about this because listen, I have a two and a half year old son right now. There's been so many times that we've just gone to chat GPT for answers to questions that we would have otherwise potentially wanted to like even book an appointment and go see, you know, our pediatrician for those answers. But at the end of the day, like, to be honest with you, like, we're just not that impressed with the quality of service that we're receiving from our pediatrician. And the fact that they make it difficult and don't get back to us and all these, it's just like, we're just going to go to chat GPT.

15:15John Lee Dumas:Like we know there's going to be errors there and we know it can never replace the brain of a human being who's like nose bow and is like in the moment, all these things. but man, they just haven't earned our trust and they keep losing our trust more and more as they continue to drop the ball and make mistakes and not follow up and just seemingly not care. But I mean, if we had a fantastic provider who was just on it, sending us weekly updates and not even personal ones, but just overall updates about what you should know if you have a two to three to four year old and it could be so simple and automated but sometimes it's what's simple is just what is not executed.

15:51John Lee Dumas:And that kind of moves into the lessons for entrepreneurs. Like, what would you say the biggest lesson for founders about the very first signal they send to customers? What's that biggest lesson? Yeah, if you want to have big outcomes, which I think all of us get into this entrepreneurship because we want to have big outcomes, right? If you want to have those, you have to signal that you care about your customers' dignity, meaning that you're letting them know that you value them and you respect them very, very first. And that may seem old fashioned. I telling you, it is not. It has to be intentional.

16:29That's another one that is incredibly important. We've talked about it a bunch. And all of your decisions need to lead back to how does this help this person feel valued and respected from whether it's the waiting room in your office, whether it's a meeting that you're going into, you need, and, and kind of that third thing, John, is that you need to spend time becoming the thing that you talk about the most. Nothing is more frustrating to me. I've got a buddy of mine who is constantly putting online, making it sound like he's this big VC guy and stuff. And he's calling me on the other line and saying that he's broke.

17:05And like, dude, you need to become the thing that you talk about the most. If it's dignity and you talk about dignity, then be dignified. If it's intentionality, then be intentional, but like do it on purpose. And that message will come across and people will feel how genuine that is and outcomes will flow from that.

17:25John Lee Dumas:I've never liked that advice. Fake it till you make it. Cause it just feels so disingenuous. And by the way, people like the journey. They, they want to root you on, you know, when I was first starting, I'm like, listen, I'm bad at podcasting. I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm here, I'm trying to get better and I'm trying to put out a good product for you and give me feedback, how do I improve? And I was always trying to just take them on the journey with me instead of trying to be like, I took communications in college. No, I was like, none of that. I was just genuine, open and transparent the whole way through and I know that was a reason that the audience gave me a break instead of just being like, that guy's terrible, I'm moving on to be like, oh, that guy's terrible but give him a break.

18:04John Lee Dumas:This is his first time ever doing this and this was now 14 years ago. So what would you say is one thing, Sean, that Fire Nation can do today to instantly build more trust in every interaction? Intentionally walk into that next interaction with the goal of addressing that person's dignity very first. and an example of intentionally think about the way that you're going to greet them with a smile, with the way you carry yourself, call them by name, look at them in the eye, shake their hand and put your phone away when you're with them and not even in their line of sight, right? We become so closed with our cell phones that we've lost some of that first interaction power, I call it.

18:51those things will lead to trust when you address that human dignity first. So do that with intentionality when you go into your next exchange and watch how people respond because it's becoming increasingly more common. It can be a superpower for Fire Nation.

19:06John Lee Dumas:Powerful. Sean, if Fire Nation is listening to this and they're saying, I want to learn more about Sean. I want to connect with him. I want to consume more of his content. What is your call to action for our listeners today. Please find me. I'm on LinkedIn. That's the place where I drop the most content. I have a website, Sean Gibbs.com, and that provides a lot of the training materials and stuff. I give a lot of that stuff away for free because I just want people to build with intentionality. And so those are the two best places to come find me. I'd love to connect. Fire Nation, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with, then you've been hanging out with SG and JLD today.

19:45John Lee Dumas:So keep up the heat. And for links to everything we talked about, visit eofire.com. Just type Sean in the search bar. Just type Sean in the search bar. That's S-H-A-W-N. And the show notes page will pop right up. Sean, thank you for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your value with Fire Nation today. For that, we salute you, brother. And we'll catch you on the flip side. Appreciate it. Hey, Fire Nation, a huge thank you to our sponsors and Sean for sponsoring today's episode. And Fire Nation, are you an entrepreneur on fire who's looking to share your amazing message with the world? If yes, we are now accepting applications for EO Fire.

20:19John Lee Dumas:So to learn more about becoming a guest, visit eofire.com slash guest and I'll catch you there or on the flip side. Fire Nation, is your business stuck? Join Eric Trump and Clay Clark's life-changing business conference, November 5th and 6th in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Learn these specific proven systems Clay Clark has used to create thousands of success stories today at thrivetimeshow.com slash EO fire. Again, request tickets today at thrivetimeshow.com slash EO fire. Stop duct taping your business together. High Level runs your website, your funnels, email, automation, scheduling, payments, and memberships all in one place.

20:53John Lee Dumas:And when you sign up at highlevelfire.com, you get a 30-day free trial plus my exclusive bonus stack that includes weekly office hours with me and much more. Visit highlevelfire.com. Highlevelfire.com. Thank you.