Emerging Crisis for America's Veterans with Eric Gang

0:01John Lee Dumas:Boom! Shake the room, Fire Nation. JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire, brought to you by High Level, the all-in-one sales and marketing platform. Today we'll be breaking down the emerging crisis for America's veterans. To draw these value bombs, I brought to Eric Gang at the EO Fire Studios. Eric is an award-winning attorney and best-selling author who advocates for the U.S. military veterans. He is the author of Betrayal of Valor, an expose of a horribly Flawed Veterans Administration, which was an Amazon bestseller. And today we talk about the state of our veterans, why this is happening, the role of the VA, and oh, so much more.

0:35John Lee Dumas:And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Eric and our sponsors. If the thought of getting your business up and running is overwhelming, then here's my advice. Keep things simple. Start your business today with the industry's best business partner, Shopify, and start hearing... Sign up for your$1 per month trial today at shopify.com slash on fire. Go to shopify.com slash on fire. Stop duct taping your business together. High Level runs your website, your funnels, email, automation, scheduling, payments, and memberships all in one place. And when you sign up at highlevelfire.com, you get a 30-day free trial plus my exclusive bonus stack that includes weekly office hours with me and much more.

1:19John Lee Dumas:Visit highlevelfire.com. Highlevelfire.com. Eric, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. Go slow. Being successful should take a long time. Many people and many books have been written about how you can grow 10x in twice or half the time. And I believe that success that occurs too quickly potentially could set you up for failure in the long run. because it's the long, hard, arduous work of learning step by step over a period of years that solidifies the foundation of skills and mindset that allows you to weather more difficult storms that can come later on down the road deeper into your career.

2:13So I am skeptical of individuals who become successful rapidly, because I often believe that that success may be due to external factors and some luck and not necessarily the result of very lengthy time putting in their dues of learning the skills the hard way and solidifying their foundation. So I can say that from experience, you're better to go slow. You'll build a stronger organization if you do it the long, slow way. So that would be what I would say.

2:49John Lee Dumas:Fire Nation, great start of a value bomb to this episode as we talk about the emerging crisis for America's veterans. And Eric, I don't even know if you know this about me, but I am a veteran myself. I spent eight years as an officer in the U.S. Army. I did a 13-month tour of duty in Iraq back in 2003, 2004 as a tank commander in charge of four tanks and 16 men. And so when I reintegrated, quote unquote, back into the civilian world, I definitely saw a lot of flaws in that transition. So I want to talk about the state of our veterans, because when we zoom out, share with us some of the biggest challenges facing America's veterans today.

3:33John Lee Dumas:We're talking physically, mentally, financially and socially. There are significant challenges facing American veterans. and anecdotally, I find that the challenges that veterans face are disproportionately observed in the ranks of the enlisted servicemen, women. We see far fewer officers with the same level of problems. We do see some. Now, there are less officers, of course, so that's why I say anecdotally, But generally speaking, we find more difficulties amongst the enlisted crowd than we do amongst the officers. So generally speaking, the state of American veterans right now is in a very poor state health-wise.

4:19When I say health, I use that in a very broad sense, physical and mental health. And the two components are very inextricably intertwined. We, to some extent, see a mirroring of the health problems that America faces right now in the general population, in the veteran population as well. For instance, America is the most obese nation on earth. And of course, with obesity comes a whole host of health problems that affect almost every body, part, and system. And we see those same problems in the veteran's population as well and all the attendant health issues that come with it. and with the health issues being impacted by mental health concerns it only amplifies the problem we typically see people with significant mental health problems that flow over into the physical realm as well for instance a person may be treating with some pretty high-powered psychiatric medication to deal with post-traumatic stress disorder or some other mental health issue which triggers metabolic insulin resistance, metabolic disease, obesity, turns into sleep apnea and hypertension and a stroke or heart disease.

5:30Just the cascading effects of impairment to health keep going on and on. So what we see, generally speaking, is a group of people who are really challenged physically and mentally. And, of course, that makes a difference in their capacity to earn a living. And so it does then result in financial setbacks and less financial stability than what we want to see. You know, it's interesting. I spoke a number of years ago at Princeton University for a conference they were having about diversity hiring in academia and the need to hire more veterans to diversify because I guess they felt there were not enough veterans in academia.

6:16And there's one thing about accommodations that should be considered because oftentimes if a person has a physical disability, maybe they're in a wheelchair, maybe they have an amputation. It's one thing to build a ramp to accommodate a wheelchair or some other physical adaptation to the place of employment. But it's another thing to be able to build an accommodation for somebody with severe PTSD who reacts to every noise, who reacts to other people, who has anger issues. Those are much harder issues to deal with and to accommodate in the workplace. So we see higher rates of mental health issues in the veteran population.

7:00The suicide rate amongst veterans is much higher than the suicide rate amongst civilians. And these mental health issues make it far more difficult to accommodate in the economic sector, in the competitive labor market, than a mere physical disability. With so much of our economy being in the brain work these days, a mere physical disability alone is often not enough to render somebody incapable of sustaining economic self-sufficiency. But with severe mental health issues, it doesn't matter if it's brain work or physical work. Interacting with people becomes a challenge. Sustaining the pace of a competitive labor market is very, very challenging.

7:43So disproportionately, we see higher levels of mental health issues than we'd see in the civilian population. We see high levels of physical health problems as well. Veterans also have the lowest rate of smoking cessation, for instance. So there are still a lot of problems that the veteran population suffers from at higher levels than does the civilian population. So our veterans do deserve better. they have volunteered. Unlike many decades ago where there was conscription, individuals that have worn the uniform and served our country did so voluntarily. Now, they were heavily recruited in some cases, of course, but it's still a voluntary decision they made, a decision that the vast majority of our population does not do.

8:32So that's one of the reasons why we do what we do is we're really passionate about helping veterans turn their lives around and to be able to overcome some of the challenges that they face coming out of the service.

8:43John Lee Dumas:Eric, I want to talk about the role of the VA. I mean, the Department of Veterans Affairs, it's meant to be a safety net. So in your view, where has the VA genuinely helped and where has it unintentionally exacerbated the problem? You know, the VA health care system is a very large health care system. VA, I believe, is the second largest federal cabinet office in the U.S. outside of the Department of Defense. And they run a huge hospital outpatient medical system throughout the United States. And depending on where you live, that health care can be quite good. I have had veterans sing the praises of their local VA medical centers.

9:26I've also had some individuals complain vehemently about the service with the VA's health care system. It does depend on the situation, your location, and things like that. But overall, the VA has done a good job of building an entire nationwide health care system for our veterans to provide them health care, dental care, and things like that, vocational training. There's a lot of services that they do provide. so they have done a pretty good job with that okay you can complain here and there but there is a system that is there to provide care for veterans now some veterans may complain that they're not getting the care they want they won't pay cover certain treatments things like that that may be the case but if you're just a zoom out on the meta level the health care system that va has put together has been it's a big undertaking and they've done a pretty good job

10:23John Lee Dumas:And I can actually vouch. I mean, I've traveled around the world, specifically we're talking states though, when it comes to Veterans Affairs and the VA hospitals. I mean, Maine, Kentucky, San Diego, now even in Puerto Rico. And every time I've gone, I felt like I have access to a very, very good facility with staff that cares, doctors who care. and nobody's perfect and nothing is perfect. But as a veteran, I do feel like there's a good job there. Of course, there's other areas and we'll get into some of those in a little bit that could be improved. And we'll be talking about root causes, who's most impacted, real solutions when we get back from thanking our sponsors.

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14:16John Lee Dumas:So beyond surface level explanations, why do these problems continue to persist year after year? I mean, is this a systems issue? Is it a cultural issue, a policy issue, or a little bit of all the above? You know, overall, I would say it's probably a systems issue because you were talking about a very large bureaucracy and bureaucracies inherently have issues and problems. Now, I will say over the past year or so, we have seen on the benefits side, we've seen the VA work faster than I've ever seen in 20 years to work the backlog down of cases. They have been making decisions at a pace we've never seen before in decades.

15:00So I do applaud what VA's been doing over the last year or so. When Collins took the role as Secretary of VA, you know, it took a couple of months to kind of get things going. There were some government buyout issues that were floating around for the first couple of months. But I'd say by about May of 2025 and onward, we saw just a rapid uptick in the level of decisions that are being made, the speed with which those decisions are being made. So they are trying and they are doing some things to try to move things along more than they have in the past. But when it comes to health care, I remember back in the Obama years when Shinseki was the secretary, there was the big scandal, particularly focused out in Phoenix, if I recall, where there were veterans were dying because of the delays in getting appointments and the way the appointments were handled and things like that.

15:57And if you look at what was happening there, there was a way that they were gaming the system because the system was very metric driven because it's so large. And so they figured out a way to, you know, game that system, which is schedule appointments and then cancel them and reschedule them so that they can then cut off the wait time. It's because apparently wait times for appointments is a metric that they measure. So that is a systems problem. It's a bureaucracy that's large enough that it has to be run by complex systems, and the systems are designed to work for the majority of situations, but they're also subject to manipulation.

16:42And that's what happened back in the healthcare scandal back during Eric Shinseki's time as secretary of the VA, which he subsequently resigned over. So it is a systems issue. And the question is, can it be better? I suppose it could be better. You know, VA is not like an organization where if you have a problem, you call up and you leave a message for somebody. And like, you know, by the end of the day, somebody calls you back. It just doesn't happen. It's not where you send them an email and then they email you back. Okay. It just doesn't work that way. And that is the nature of the system itself.

17:20So I guess to some extent there are always going to be some challenges based on the fact that we're running a very large bureaucracy. And it's interesting because in the U.S., veterans, we view veterans very favorably as we should. In some countries, though, it's not quite that way because in some countries there's sort of mandatory military service for a year or two. So it's just something that everybody does. It's not a special status. In this country, it's a special status because the people who served did something that others didn't do. And since the conscription ended back in the 70s, I think it was, you know, it's all volunteer at this point.

18:04So, of course, these people are owed significant deference and applause for what they do. and so you know it's it's just one of those things that is probably a systems issue and we have a system to deal with this class of individuals in our country and the system does the best that it can but it's a huge organization a huge bureaucracy and that's part of the problem there there may not be any other solution for it you can make some efficiency improvements which we have seen. They have done a good job of making improvements.

18:44John Lee Dumas:Well, Eric, let me jump in here because I actually do want to now really shift into talking about real solutions. So if we move beyond awareness and we move into action, I mean, what practical steps, what policy changes, what community support and private sector involvement could actually move this needle? To get services for veterans, it's an ecosystem. It's a patchwork of providers in the private sector and the public sector. The states, for instance, have their own departments of veterans affairs that help veterans typically interface with the federal government. So real solutions, right now, oftentimes non-profits serve in various capacities to help veterans.

19:35It seems that non-profits tend to dominate. And, you know, for-profit providers can also do a lot of good work as well. However, I must say that right now there is a whole host of for-profit companies that are popping up that charge veterans in contravention of federal law and charging them for services that are available for free with veteran service organizations, which is a real concern. But what I would say is this, the stronger partnerships between the private sector and the public sector, I think, is where real assistance can be provided. Let me give you an example. The state organizations, like say, if you're, you know, the Puerto Rico has the Puerto Rico Office of the Public Advocate, which is their office at the Commonwealth level that helps veterans in the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico.

20:31In Georgia, it's the Georgia Department of Veterans Affairs, or Florida has their own, you know, California, whatever. And these organizations provide free assistance of veterans up to a certain point. But then beyond that, they have to obviously go to federal court or they need evidence that they can't obtain on their own. And evidence typically takes money to obtain, okay? For instance, if you have a client, a veteran who suffers a form of cancer that he alleges was due to exposure to toxic water at Camp Lejeune when he was in the Marine Corps, but it's a weird type of cancer that's not considered to be presumptively associated with that toxic exposure, how are you going to prove it?

21:16Well, you need to hire a very high-powered, expensive toxicologist to do an analysis to try to figure out if it's connected. Well, the state organizations don't have the resources or the public funding for those state-level organizations to go out and hire private toxicologists to work with their clients. So they end up trying to assist a veteran with a claim without really having the financial backing to do so. So they're going to win the easy cases and the cases that can be granted with the assistance of a VA medical exam that turns out to be favorable, but they're not going to be able to win the cases where you need private experts to come in and testify on behalf of that veteran to connect the dots.

22:00So where I see real change happening is when these state-level organizations can partner with private sector law firms to assist in those category of cases, cases that they can no longer help because they they don't have the funding to do so. Because law firms can take those cases and front the cost of those medical experts that in turn can help those clients win their cases. And law firms will typically lend that money to clients on a non-recourse basis, meaning if they don't win the case, the veteran does not have to repay them. So public sector entities are not in that business. They can't, they're not in the business of getting the public to fund money to put up at risk like that.

22:43And so I think the thing that would move the needle to help more veterans win would be a public-private sector partnership between the state-level service organizations and private law firms. Because that's where you can bring private sector funding into the equation to really help clients with difficult cases win. Because the easy cases can be won without that. Okay, a shrapnel wound. Well, nobody's going to question where that came from. Okay. but somebody develops a form of cancer 45 years after he discharged from service, the connection is more attenuated and that claim is more likely to be denied.

23:20So those are the cases where you can't win them unless you get experts. And so if the states would then say, hey, I'll partner with private law firms, I give it my best shot. Say if you're in California, the California Department of Veterans Affairs, he says, you know, we've given our best shot for free. We can't help beyond this. but hey, let me work with this law firm and I'll let these veterans go to this law firm because they'll front the money to help these guys win. We can really move the needle forward because we can help the veterans win cases that would otherwise be denied because the cases that are relatively straightforward and easy, they have access to services that can do the job for them.

24:01It's the more difficult cases that require funding and people willing to risk their capital to take a chance on a case to try to help that veteran win. So that's where I see the real benefit potentially being there between a public and private partnership that would really make a big difference.

24:20John Lee Dumas:So Eric, take us home here. For veterans who are listening right now and they feel unstuck or unseen, and for civilians that are listening who genuinely want to help, what advice would you give? You know, I've been doing this a long time. And the one thing I've seen consistently over the years is that veterans, if they have good help, if they persevere and don't give up, they eventually win. Many veterans get discouraged because VA has been denying them for 5, 10, 15 years and they just want to throw in the towel and say, forget it. My advice would be don't give up. Keep fighting because in my experience, those who stay in the battle long enough ultimately come out on top.

25:03Keep that appeal going, because if you do, you'll eventually get paid all the back pay, and it'll be worth it. But throwing in the towel and giving up because it gets a little difficult is probably the worst thing you can do. So don't give up. Persevere. You know, that's the most important thing I would have to say.

25:23John Lee Dumas:Yeah, and I would jump in and just say, because I've experienced this actually firsthand, is you will get back pay, Fire Nation, from the time that you put that appeal in. So even if you get denied for one year, three years, five years, as long as you keep fighting and you do eventually win, it's all going to come back to you. So it's not like you're wasting time. So Eric, if Fire Nation or somebody listening wants to connect with you, what is your call to action for our listeners today? Yeah, my call to action is, listen, if you have a really pretty straightforward case, There are many free options out there for you, and I encourage you to avail yourself of those options, whether it's a state-level service organization or one of the private service organizations.

26:03But if you get into a situation where you have a really complicated case, it's a big case, and you cannot lose this case. This is a must-win kind of case. We've got a lot riding on it. A firm like mine can help. We get involved in the tough cases, the real hard cases, the complicated cases that other people can't win. We put up our money to fund experts to risk our capital in pursuit of a victory for a veteran. So my call to action is for those individuals who have gotten stuck, who have been trying on their own, been trying with free services that are out there, but they just seem to be getting stuck.

26:43Give us a call. Reach out to us. Look us up on the web. VeteransDisabilityInfo.com. We may be able to help you.

26:51John Lee Dumas:Fire Nation, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. You've been hanging out with EG and JLD today. So keep up the heat. And for links to everything we talked about, visit eofire.com. Type Eric, E-R-I-C in the search bar. The show notes page will pop right up. Eric, thank you for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your value with Fire Nation today. For that, we salute you and we'll catch you on the flip side. Thanks, John. Hey, Fire Nation, a huge thank you to Eric and our sponsors for sponsoring today's episode. and Fire Nation. If you ever said to yourself, I would love to be a guest on Entrepreneurs on Fire, well, visit eofire.com slash guest.