From Payments Data Chaos to Agentic Commerce: A Founder’s Vision with Roberto Kafati, Co-Founder & CEO at DEUNA

0:01Boom! Shake the room, Fire Nation. JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire. brought to you by High Level, the all-in-one sales and marketing platform. Today, we'll be breaking down how to go from payments, data chaos, to agentic commerce, a founder's vision. To drop these value bombs, I have brought to Roberto Cafati and Eofire Studios. Roberto is dedicated to liberating the power of commerce. As CEO and co-founder of DeUna, he leads the mission to simplify global payments and power next-generation commerce. And today, we'll be talking about what Dayuna does today, the growth journey, AI and innovation, also the founder mindset and principles, and oh, so much more.

0:41And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Roberto and our sponsors. Are you ready for the ultimate all-in-one platform for entrepreneurs, marketers, coaches, and agencies? Build funnels, automate follow-ups, manage clients, and even white label your own software. Say hello to our featured partner, High Level, and visit highlevelfire.com to start your free trial today. Fire Nation, it's time to stop guessing and start winning with a proven playbook. Inside the Freedom Circle, you'll have access to my step-by-step systems for creating offers, building processes, and driving traffic, all in just 90 days.

1:23Ready for freedom? Visit freedom-circle.com to learn more. Roberto, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. What's up, everyone? I'm happy to be here with John. I think that entrepreneurship and success is deeply romanticized, John. And honestly, what I've found over the last few years is that resilience matters more than anyone thinks because the grass is always greener on the other side. Nine out of 10 days, you're getting hit. But the 10th day reminds you of why you're building what you're building and why you're doing what you're doing.

2:06And it's very important to be resilient to get to that 10th day, not only like once or twice, but on an ongoing basis, through years of lows and highs. And I think that the resilience aspect of it, focusing on long-term thinking, even if it's on sexy moats at the beginning, I think that a combination of all of that are the lessons that I've learned along the way in the last few years. And it's really about being resilient and being focused on the merchants and being focused on the long-term play. I love that you use the word resilience multiple times. I mean, that's really going to be one of the themes of our interview today on what you've built.

2:47Because Roberto, I want to talk about your founding story. I want to talk about your vision. So take us back to the beginning. What experiences shaped your early entrepreneurial journey? And specifically, what was your vision that led you to the creation of Dayuna? That's a great question, John. To give you some context about myself, I studied in the US at Dartmouth and at Stanford. And while my time at Dartmouth, I was getting involved very early on since 2015 with crypto. And I knew I wanted to start something to disrupt how payments worked, especially because the countries where I come from, I come from Honduras, I was born and raised there, almost 30 % of our GDP, over 25 % of our GDP comes from remittances alone.

3:30So crypto was an early promise towards that. I quickly realized that I didn't have the expertise or the know-how in regards to AML or KYC that early on, I wasn't even graduated. So I decided to join McKinsey as a digital payments expert. At McKinsey, I started working with a lot of the banks in Latin America and a lot of very large merchants. And COVID hit back in 2020. And I was called by my family to help out in terms of their own digital channel and being able to be independent from marketplaces like delivery apps or online marketplaces that we use today frequently and to level the playing field.

4:13So we started with the idea that is still today our mission of how do we level the playing field for the merchants to be able to have their own digital channels that are on par, both on the capabilities aspect of it, but also on the user experience aspect of it. And now more recently, as of like two years ago, on the data and AI aspect of it. And when we started, we started with this one-click checkout idea, very similar to a ShopPay or a Stripe link. And we built the largest one outside of the US. And that was very clear early on that if we wanted to level the playing field for merchants, the user network that these marketplaces and delivery apps have, the ability to do a checkout in one click, that was like one of the main factors because when we were talking to merchants very early on, this is back when COVID hit, we were seeing that 80 % of their users abandoned cart at the checkout, John.

5:14So we were like, if we can do a one click to avoid that 80%, that would be amazing, right? I love that because for me, it's all about how do you identify a real problem in a growing industry and then create the number one solution to that problem. And it really seems like that's what you're doing with your company right now, Roberto. And this would be a conversation for another time, but I love the fact that you're from Honduras. I spent two weeks there becoming a dive certified master in Utila, which is just a beautiful little island off of Roatan. And I have such fond memories of that country in general, specifically of that island.

5:51So I just love when people like you, hey, you know, you could stay in the United States and just keep working for a company like McKinsey and like racking in the dollars and living the life. But you're like, how can I make it better from where I'm from, you know, for the problems that I see with my people? And I feel that way myself, you know, having now lived in Puerto Rico for nine and a half years, I'm like, how can I help this island? Like, how can I really help these amazing individuals that live here, like myself, full time. I mean, I intend on raising my son in Puerto Rico, and I just want it to be this amazing island.

6:24I'm sure you feel the same about South America and Central America and Honduras and other places that are just not really at the place right now where they could be, especially when you see right north what's happening in the United States right now, which is pretty crazy with all this AI stuff, which we're going to be getting into in more detail. But before we do, can you just finish the founder story? We started with this one quick checkout, right? And we saw immediately that merchants were interested, but it wasn't a very major pain point. And we saw that the payment infrastructure that was needed to power the checkout for large enterprises across countries, across industries, across different banking providers was very complex and was something that would actually also add value in terms of how can they accept more payments.

7:09So we started building a lot of payment infrastructure. That was like three, four years ago. And two years ago, we were like, okay, now that we're powering 100 % of the transactions for very large merchants and orchestration is going to get commoditized, that's something that we really believe in. How are we going to be able to add more value and differentiate from other infrastructure players or other checkout players? And that's when we started to talk and work with merchants about two years ago to start implementing AI solutions that really understood the merchant, the context of the merchant, that had AI-ready data because we were extracting it.

7:46And that is where being able to focus on a growing pain in that time, for example, which was e-commerce. That was the largest e-commerce market in terms of growth back in the day. Early on, gave us the ability to be resilient, to listen to our merchants, to iterate and evolve the product along the way to a point where now we manage over 25 to 30 % of Mexico's online GDP. And the capabilities that we got there, John, from learning and working with the largest airlines, the largest movie theaters, the largest fast food retailers, telcos, gave us capabilities in AI that the world has yet to see in the US.

8:26And now we're focused exclusively on growth in the US. We actually just hired Chase Foster that was just announced. There's a couple of other hires that are coming. And that is just to show you that even if we started in that time and we were focused on solving the pain points in that time, which we have, the capabilities and the learnings about being resilient and working with the merchants in the long term have allowed us to create something unique. Well, that's what I want to talk about next because that's to me so fascinating is AI. It's innovation. And what you're doing, Roberto, you're embedding agentic intelligence, into payments, into commerce.

8:59Tell us why is this the next big leap for your company? That's a great question. And John, to answer that, let's talk about the airport, right? When you go to the airport and you want to get on a plane, you have to show your ID, you have to show your boarding pass, and all the information is there. The checkout is very similar. The checkout sees every single transaction for the merchant. And we're not talking a PayPal checkout that only sees PayPal transactions for, let's say, Domino's. We're talking about everything, PayPal, cash, credit, debit, all transactions go through the checkout. So because we had the checkout for like all these large companies, we were able to extract more data than they were, more data and more quality data.

9:43And what we saw is that payments is really the gateway towards seeing all the transaction, all the behavioral data. And we were able to start extracting up to 638 data points per transaction. So if you think about the largest companies right now working on AI and selling AI to enterprise merchants in the US, you can think of an open AI. They announced a couple of months ago that they're now doing$10 million plus projects for consultants and forward deployed engineers to go connect your data and to make it work. Because the reality is that these LLMs don't really work with your database and they don't really understand your business context and your KPIs and what matters to you.

10:20The same with a Palantir. They send forward deployed engineers. They connect all of your silo data. They pre-process it. They clean it. But what if you didn't have to do all of that legwork because you could extract it yourself, because you could extract it at the checkout. You could extract 638 data points from identity to marketing signals, to behavioral signals, to payment signals, and everything powered thanks to our checkout and payment infrastructure in real time. And that was the foundation of what we're doing now. Because we had all the data early on over two years ago with Domino's, with KFC, we could work backwards in terms of what output they were looking for, what insights were they looking for.

10:58And we could create a multi-agentic system now that can think with them, that can think proactively for them. Not only when you ask a question, can it answer complex analysis, but it can go ahead and beyond or be proactive without you even asking about particular insights. But to get started, you needed that AI-ready data. A lot of enterprises have data. It's not AI-ready. We had the AI-ready data because we controlled extraction at source for all these data points. And we were able to start playing on the output and what the multi-agentic system had to do very early on, much earlier on than anyone here in the US.

11:37Fire Nation, you can really see what Roberto is building here. And of course, it is powerful for so many reasons. He's just broken down. We're talking about the future of commerce and payments. We're talking about scaling a business and more when we get back from thanking our sponsors. Energy, focus, and recovery are critical for high performers like us and finding the right supplements can make all the difference. Quicksilver Scientific makes advanced liposomal supplements your body can use fast. Quicksilver Scientific is a US-based company that manufactures advanced liposomal supplements. In everyday terms, this means nutrients are easier for your body to absorb and put to work quickly.

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12:52These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Okay, let's talk about a platform that's completely changing how entrepreneurs are running their business, and they are also our featured partner, HighLevel. If you're an entrepreneur, coach, agency, or course creator looking to grow faster and smarter, HighLevel is the all-in-one platform that replaces your entire tech stack. Seriously, think ClickFunnels, Calendly, MailChimp, Kajabi, and even your CRM all rolled up into one powerful white label solution.

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13:57Seriously, every question that pops up, they will have your answer waiting. And if you visit my special partnership link, you'll get a free trial. So visit highlevelfire.com to start your free trial and see why thousands of businesses are switching. That's highlevelfire.com, where marketing, sales, and automation finally come together. High level, join the revolution. Roberto, we're back, and I want to talk about the future of commerce. I want to talk about the future of payments. I mean, looking ahead, how do you specifically see enterprise commerce evolving over the next decade? And how will intelligent infrastructure redefine both growth and efficiency?

14:39That's a great question, John. The future of payments, especially for enterprise commerce, is going to evolve drastically over the next few years. You have Agenta Commerce already stepping in and we have major announcements recently from large players. We have intelligence becoming a major product in terms of how do you create more efficiencies, how do you detect revenue leakages, and how do you act on those before it's too late? And when you think about enterprises that operate in multiple dozens of countries, being able to track all the different opportunities from customer segments and behaviors to this provider with this acceptance rate or this provider already hitting a maximum fraud chargeback rate before you get penalties from the networks like Visa and MasterCard.

15:29Like all those different things in so many countries that require time data and would require a large team, and not only a large team, but also access to the data itself and being able to analyze it and act on it, that's all going to change. Because right now, those revenue leakages surface two to three weeks after the fact, and opportunities are not always captured. What if something could help those human teams be aware of everything that is happening in all of those multiple fronts? What if something could tell you, hey, there's an opportunity here, do you want help acting on it? And what will happen, John, is that as more agentic intelligence takes place, these enterprises are going to be able to be much more efficient with what they can do, what insights they detect, and how quickly can they act.

16:21And then that last part, how quickly can they act? It will really be a function of their enterprise software flexibility because if they're not able to extract the data in real time, get an insight in real time, and be able to change the infrastructure dynamically to be able to take advantage of that insight, then there's nothing there. But if you are able to detect those revenue leakages and act in real time, then there's a lot of revenue opportunities and growth in that segment and that space. And there's a lot of patterns and a lot of opportunities that simply like human teams won't be able to detect as quickly as machines can.

17:04And it's all about teaching them the context about your business, the KPIs of your business, what matters to you, how you think about it. and then they can really be supportive in changing how enterprise commerce works. Roberto, just hearing you talk, it just gets me so fired up about the future. I mean, there's so many exciting things that are happening and it's just so cool that you're at the forefront of all of this. And I want to bring it back to the core because listen, our listeners, Fire Nation, they're entrepreneurs, they're small business owners. So I want to talk about your founder mindset.

17:36I want to talk about your principles because every entrepreneur, I mean, let's be honest, We've got the highs, we've got the lows, but what is the core principle and or mindset that keeps you specifically grounded while you're building something entirely new? The long-term focus on leveling the playing field is a mission that really drives us at the Una, John. That combined with our resilient values, I think that the team has demonstrated how resilient we've been through the highs and the lows. the combination of those two things is a very fresh reminder of why we do what we do and why we're willing to spend the next decade building what we're building.

18:19Speak specifically to your mindset though. What's something that allows you to keep driving forward even when you're facing struggles, obstacles, challenges? What helps you? There's a couple of things, but I would tell you that when you go through a very low point of my life, John, what you realize is that you have to aim for small wins and small progress on a daily basis. That can be with a work or small improvements, systematic improvements on a weekly basis. That can be with health, starting to walk, run, train. That can be with family, spending more time with family. But I think that one important aspect of it, once you reach a low point, like that redefines your character, is to be able to focus on those small consecutive wins that compound over time.

19:14And when they start compounding, like after a month of working out, you're not going to see any difference. But after month three and month six, you're going to start seeing a lot of differences. And if you can manage a balance of improving the different aspects of your life, I think that that is key. Starting to see that small improvement and having hope and faith that it's going to compound, but seeing it not in one aspect of your life, but in multiple aspects allows you to redefine your character and your journey. I love that advice. There's actually a book that I recommend so often. It's called The Slight Edge by Jeff Olson.

19:51And it's all about how just doing the small little things right every day doesn't really make a big impact over days weeks, even months, but over years, it is incredible what that compound effect can do. And Roberto, I want to talk about the closing value bomb of the day. That's scaling a business. I mean, you've built Dayuna from the ground up and you also were doing this while creating a whole new category. So share with us the most powerful, the most actionable insights that founders can apply to scale with both clarity and confidence. I would work backwards from where you want to be in two years.

20:32Identify those aspects of your life that you want to change, John, and start working on that two-year plan. That's what we did at DeUNA. And that allowed us to scale DeUNA almost 200x over the last two years while redefining that category. We knew that orchestration will get commoditized or is getting commoditized. And we're driving that. We're aware of that. But by focusing on all the aspects and being able to keep growing, knowing that the short term sacrifices will have a long term effect or a long term windfall, that allowed us to keep our focus on that two year plan. And in those two years, we built a category-defining product.

21:19Her name is Athia. And that is what the U.S. enterprise merchants are raving about right now, many of them. Because the reality of it is that by pairing that long-term thinking and being able to sacrifice the short-term, both on the business aspect of it, but on other aspects of your life, you're really able to make big defining bets. And I think that it is very easy, John, for entrepreneurs to lose their minds in the day-to-day. And it happens to all of us. It has happened to me many times. But the reality as a leader of the org is to be able to see the future and place the org there. And that requires small consecutive wins on different aspects of personal and professional life with a long-term mindset of, I'll sacrifice the short term to achieve this in every aspect.

22:11Roberto, you dropped so many value bombs today. I just want to thank you for that. And I also want to congratulate you on what you're building. I mean, it is, first off, so powerful and so innovative, but also it's just such a worthy cause. I mean, that's what I love most about it is you're doing something so worthy of this world and helping so many people as a result. So I want to just commend you for that and ask you if our listeners, Fire Nation, want to connect with you, want to learn more about your company, What is your call to action for Fire Nation today? Follow us on LinkedIn and on Twitter.

22:45We're posting a lot of our lessons learned. And unlike other entrepreneurs, we're not afraid of being honest with the audience. Like everyone is going to talk to you about the highs, John. We'll talk about the lows because those are the ones that defined us. And now we're here. And if any entrepreneur wants to reach out, like you can reach out on LinkedIn or on X. and we're happy to like, I'll be, I always answer all of those messages and we can definitely try to engage. Fire Nation, you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. You're hanging out with RK and JLD today. So keep up that heat.

23:23And for links to everything we talked about, visit eofire.com, type Roberto in the search bar and the show notes page will pop right up. And Roberto, thank you for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your value with Fire Nation today. For that, we salute your brother and we will catch you on the flip side. Thank you, Fire Nation fam. Excited to share some of those insights with you. Fire Nation, a huge thank you to our sponsors and Roberto for sponsoring today's episode. And Fire Nation, don't let another 90 days slip by. Inside the Freedom Circle, my community, entrepreneurs are building real freedom with proven playbooks and community support.

24:01Claim your spot now at freedom-circle.com. And I'll catch you there or on the flip side.

24:35playbook inside the Freedom Circle, you'll have access to my step-by-step systems for creating offers, building processes, and driving traffic all in just 90 days. Ready for freedom? Visit freedom-circle.com to learn more.