Harnessing the Power of Light for a Good Night's Sleep with Biquan Luo

0:01Boom! Shake the room, Fire Nation. JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire. brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals with great shows like No Straight Path. Today, we'll be breaking down how to harness the power of light for a good night's sleep. In Fire Nation, I tell you, my success in life is based off of a good night's sleep. To drop these value bombs, I are brought to B-Tran, Law, and the EO Fire Studios. Dr. Law is the founder and CEO of Lumos. She started her career as a bioscientist trained at the University of Southern California and Stanford University.

0:37She is the principal investigator of two DOD-funded projects on optimizing human performance via circadian rhythm in an NSF-funded project exploring how to improve sleep for adolescents. Also joining us is Herbert Hill. Herbert is an ex-professional basketball player who was drafted in 2007 to the NBA. He played internationally for 15 years and is a Providence College alum, go Friars. He is currently a second year MBA student at NYU Stern. And today we'll be talking about the power of light to improve sleep. We'll talk about how to stand out in a noisy market, how to fund the day-to-day operations of a business, and how building a team is huge keys to your success, Fire Nation, how to do that, and so much more.

1:24And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Beatron and our sponsors. One of my favorite conferences to attend each year is HubSpot's annual Inbound Conference and is coming up fast. Join us in Boston from September 5th to the 8th, 2023 for an event like no other. Inbound brings together leaders across the business space, including sales, marketing, customer success, and operations teams. The goal at Inbound to help you discover all the latest trends and tactics you can implement in your business right now. Learn, be inspired, and walk away with practical tips to help you tackle your next challenge, supercharge your sales and marketing, and ignite your customer service.

2:08Inbound is featuring many must-see speakers this year, including Reese Witherspoon, Guy Raz, and Neil Patel, just to name a few. Whether you choose a general admission ticket or go the VIP route, you're sure to leave Boston feeling on fire. Visit inbound.com to get your tickets today. All right, Fire Nation, we are jumping in. As I mentioned in the intro, we're talking all about harnessing the power of light for a good night's sleep. And as I also mentioned in the intro, man, is this a priority in my life? I get a sleep score every single morning from my aura ring. And if I'm below a 90, my day's not going to be productive.

2:48It's not going to be good. So I make sure that sleep is my top priority. I actually got a 98 sleep score a couple of weeks ago. It was literally the best day of my life. It was unbelievable. It'd be like one of our guests here, Herb, scoring a triple-double in the NBA, as far as I'm concerned. But we have a lot of cool things to talk about. And as I mentioned, we're here with the founder of Lumos, B-Tran. So B-Tran, I want you to start here by sharing your aha moments in the creation of Lumos, because we love when our guests talk about the idea stage, the origin story. What was that for you? Yeah, absolutely.

3:27Thanks, John. So I was trained as a bioscientist. I've always been really curious about how things work and trained to be evidence driven. Like you come up with a hypothesis, you validate a hypothesis with evidence. It doesn't need to be perfect, like statistically significant, but evidence of some sort to show that it's correct or it's workable or it's feasible. So at that time when I founded Lumos, I got my PhD and I was doing my postdoctoral research at Stanford University. I was exposed to the research from Dr. Jamie Zeiser about how he uses short light flashes to change how human body's internal clock, what the scientists call the circadian clock.

4:18So basically how our brain perceives day and time and when to sleep and when to wake up. The lab research had already demonstrated the effectiveness of this technology on humans, which to me is a substantial evidence to show that this is a very promising direction. and at that time I was flying back and forth between the United States and Asia to visit family. Every time it took me more than a week to get over jet lag and you know students don't get a lot of vacations so by the time I was fully adjusted it was time to come back and after After coming back, it would be another week of brain fog and daytime sleepiness.

5:10So I thought, hey, if I have the problem, someone else must have the problem. If a solution works for me, it must work for at least some portion of the other people. So we got a grant from NASA and started building some prototypes. We had several people at the time. we got some Arduino boards and some off-the-shelf masks from Amazon, and we started sewing them together. So once we create this like hacked together prototype, I started to be the lab rat, and I started to wear this prototype when I visit family in Asia. Amazingly, immediately, I was able to land and live like a normal local person.

6:00This was the moment when I was like, wow, this really works. What a great improvement of quality of life. I wish everyone had one. It's a long journey since then, but that was the beginning of Lumos. And Fire Nation, I really hope you're understanding the power of keeping your eyes open, keeping your ears open, looking around, asking yourself, what problems exist in this world on a day-to-day basis that I want to solve. And again, that's a key phrase that you want to solve because there's gonna be a lot of problems that you don't wanna solve because it's just not something you're excited about, passionate about, or have any areas of expertise or skills around.

6:44But there's gonna be one or two every now and then that you're like, there's a void in the marketplace. I wanna step into this and I want to create that solution. And that's what B-Tran has done. Now, I wanna get specific for a second here, B-Tran, because I think it's really important to talk about the power of light to improve sleep. How does Lumos do this? There are many causes of poor sleep. Sleep is a very big, complex, multifactorial problem. And it affects a lot of people, right? I once read a stat that 76 % of Americans admitted purchase to sleep aids in 2020. That's like a huge number.

7:25Even I was surprised by it. So it's a big problem. But then there are many different causes of the poor sleep. The category of people that we can help who have poor sleep include like several categories. The first one is travelers who suffer from jet lag. The second one is people who work night shifts. I once spoke with a doctor who told me that, you know, one night of night shift is equivalent to flying to Asia and come back the next day. So it's brutal for some. And then the third category that we is what we called weekend night hours. For example, they like to stay up late during the weekend, but have to get back to early Monday morning schedule.

8:17And then the fourth category would be like what we call the super snoozers, who hit the snooze button 10 times in the morning before getting up. There is also like parents of young children. Once you have children, you have to like get up really early to take care of them before going to work, before they go to school. There's also teenagers who like to stay up late playing video games, watching TikToks, making them not getting enough sleep and sometimes being late for school. so these categories of these the sleep problems in these populations are caused by their body's internal clock what we call the circadian clock not fully aligned with their sleep schedules so meaning that they want they're trying to sleep at times when their body thinks that they should be awake and therefore they have poor sleep they have morning grogginess and that's when light comes in because light is the most dominant regulating factor for the circadian clock and our product is harnessing light to help people designed to help people sleep better and wake up having a more refreshing experience.

9:42I can talk about the research at Stanford if you want to get into the details of the science, how things work. We're not going to dive that deep right now because Fire Nation can definitely go check it out on your site and we'll put it in the show page as well for those people that really want to dive deeper. But Fire Nation, I hope you do understand the power of having that time, that deep sleep, that REM sleep, that light sleep to get yourself in the right circadian rhythm. Something I did years ago that was so beneficial to me. I wake up in the morning, the first thing I do, a three mile walk outside as the sun is rising.

10:19So I can set my circadian rhythm in the morning, get that cortisol rocking. And then I take one in the evening as the sun is setting. And then that melatonin clicks in and my circadian rhythm is able to set itself. So that by nine o 'clock, I'm out. I'm out and I'm getting eight plus hours of amazing sleep as a result. and I can tell you, I just got back from a long trip to Japan. That's a 13-hour difference is this Japanese time zone to the US and it was brutal. And I can tell you, if I had Lumos then, it would have been a lifesaver because it would have allowed me to get on circadian rhythm so much faster.

10:55What I want to move to next, B-Tran, is just the reality that sleep is a very noisy market. I mean, every single human being sleeps. so there's all these people that have solutions to help you sleep better to solve problems with sleep xyz medical pharmaceutical all these different things how are you getting lumos to stand out in a crowded marketplace oh yeah that's definitely a biggest challenge for us because you know there are many sleep products out there claiming to help solve the poor sleep problem. Some may have scientific backing, some may not. But when you're a consumer desperate to fix your sleep, you're willing to try anything.

11:40Like there are many different voices out there telling you what's best for your sleep. As a consumer, it's really hard to tell one from another. And usually you just go with whoever that has the loudest barking voice. So how do we get our product to stand out in this war of marketing while staying true to who we are is definitely the like a big challenge i'm still like learning in this process there were times when i struggle with like the marketing people herb can talk about that later there were times when the marketing team said that oh we should say something about this because this is what the consumers want to here and i'll be like well that's not what we do so herb do you remember that time that we um we were talking with tico yes yes yes it's uh you know it's a ongoing battle but um i could kind of speak on this topic um because um i've done a lot of customer discovery and um i think just for what made me really like attracted to this project is that lumos actually does what it says it's going do you know a lot of people like the the over wings or the whoop bands but all these products do is actually just recommend something so john i know you said you use this product a lot but it just recommends hey you should do this you should do that but lumos actually you know treats the problem it helps you fix a problem um also the mask is very comfortable and stylish a lot of these other alternatives they're bulky or you know they don't really they're not really stylish and And I think basically a lot of products are basically putting a band-aid on something that needs stitches or surgery.

13:30And we actually, you know, in my opinion, we actually solve the problem. It is backed by science. Fire Nation, Herb brings up a great point here because I think it's very key to say, hey, listen, people can talk about solving the problem and then people can create products and services that actually solve that problem by following the steps, by using the products, by using the service. And we have a lot to talk about around these topics when we get back from thanking our sponsors. The Product Boss, hosted by Jacqueline Snyder and Mina Kunlo-CTEP, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.

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16:41Again, that's ziprecruiter.com slash F-I-R-E. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. All right, my friends, we are back and I want to close this topic, B-Tran, about what you did to stand out in a noisy market. So just one more thing that you can say that you did, and let's be quick and short here on standing out in a noisy market. Yeah, absolutely. So what I learned is to speak to the customers about their problems. So to make them feel seen and understood. That way we can stay true to ourselves, what we do, what our product does, but we can build a connection with the customers. We show that we understand their struggles with poor sleep and the cause of their sleep, and we're here to help.

17:33So that's like the biggest tip that I learned throughout the process of working at the fine line of what's scientifically true and what's understandable to customers and what they care about. Now, doing some more research about your company, one thing that I have come to find out interviewing over 3 ,800 founders over the past 10 and a half years is running a company is expensive. It's expensive to run a business, to run a company, especially a physical product that's cutting edge technology. I mean, this just takes a lot of funding. So a lot of my listeners, B-Tran, they're looking for ways to fund their day-to-day operations.

18:15How do you do this at Lumos? Running a hardware company is exceptionally costly because you require a lot of upfront capital to do that. So most startup companies go through the route of getting multiple rounds of venture funding. So for us, we've been bootstrapping and getting government funding through small business grants from NASA, the Department of Defense, National Science Foundation. This has been a very important funding mechanism for us because the grant mechanism, which is mainly available in the U.S., so for startups in the U.S., this is kind of non-diluted funding. It's a great opportunity for you to build a product, do your R &D, do your human subject testing for as much as possible without taking outside investment.

19:13And then you build the product for as far as you can, and then you just bring it out to the market, which is what we're doing right now. And then additionally, I know that some startups, they also launch like Kickstarter or Indiegogo campaign, especially hardware companies to raise money for production. This was super popular for hardware companies a few years ago. There are some crowdfunding platforms that I know of that mostly aim to raise capital from individual small Android investors. This is slightly different from Kickstarter platform where you collect a prepaid order and delivered a product.

19:57These kind of crowdfunding fundraising platform, I think they allow individual investors to invest with a single investment vehicle to avoid having too many stakeholders on the cap table. But, you know, at the end of the day, the best way to be afloat and support the company, in my opinion, and as we were advised by our mentors and advisors, is to generate revenue. It will make the company more independent from outside investment so you can choose whom to take money from. It will also make a company more appealing to investors as well. As Eric Schmidt said, you know, revenue solves all problems.

20:46Fire Nation, revenue solves all problems. I love that phrase. And I want to bring my man Herb on the mic now. You guys have heard from him once, but he has some other ideas around Accelerator and a couple other things he's going to add to this conversation. So, Herb, jump in, brother. Thank you. Thank you. So I think also for entrepreneurs starting off, it depends on what type of business you have, but I think really tapping into accelerated programs, if it's at universities or even at some, like the local, I think cities have like these city councils or they have these business administrations, really tapping into these programs because they will actually do a lot of this stuff or help you lead you a lot of the steps you need before you're actually ready to go get funding.

21:37So I think, and this is how me and Bea actually met, was an accelerator at NYU, the Endless Frontiers Labs program. And it's been great for both of us. So I think just really trying to find the non-traditional routes of funding, because right now funding, if you get investors, it's usually not going to be for terms that are perfect for the founders and stuff. So it's like we said, building value for your company, and then you can go back later and get terms that are more favorable for founders. Now, Herb, I want to stay with you here because listen, my friends, as you heard in the introduction, Herb is a Providence College graduate.

22:18I'm a Providence College graduate. He was drafted to the MBA back in 2007. He had over 15 years playing internationally. I mean, this guy has done it all. And I got to hang out with him actually personally in New York City a few weeks back where we had a nice lunch and I got to hear about his story. And he's currently in his second year as an MBA student at NYU Stern. And I will say that one thing that I've identified that's been a key to success for entrepreneurs is building the right team. So I'm going to pass this to you in a second, B-Tran. But first, I want Herb to talk about why he decided to join the Lumos team from his perspective and that whole process that went into it.

23:03When I was at NYU, I joined this accelerator program. And, you know, I just saw this company one day. I looked at like 70 different companies and I was like, wow, like I really like experience like what they're solving you know um because when I played overseas I remember I had a flight from New York to San Francisco to Guam and to Philippines I get in at like three in the morning and I have a scrimmage game at like 6 30 and so imagine what this does to your body um so um the I just saw the immediate like like need like for this for athletes but just people like you know worldwide and i was like you know wow and then i really when i started diving more into the company and then you know i really like uh you know the mentality that b has you know she's like you know one of the hardest working people i've i've ever met so and i'm a hard worker myself and we you know we're you know she's messaging me late at night and we're talking about ideas and you know we have to do these things so it just really helped me like entrepreneurship really helps me feel like I'm like I'm a it gives me the rush the same rush that I got when I was playing you know so that's this one but I just really love the team and you know I just love the product you know I just think it's amazing and I think the future of like it's just scratching the surface of what we're going to be able to achieve.

24:22Now B-Tran you built the team so let's talk about that like what were some mistakes that you made building the team and then what are some successes you had talk about that so our listeners can understand the power of building the right team. Yeah, absolutely. And I love working with Herb. I want to do before I dive into that, I want to do a quick shout out to that accelerator that we met from NYU. Its name is called Andalus Frontier Labs. It has been so amazing, hands on, one of the best accelerators we've been through. And I highly recommend it to lots of entrepreneurs. Definitely check it out.

25:04It's great. So going back to your question, John, what mistakes I've made and what are the success? Yeah. Unlike some entrepreneurs who came from like a leadership background, who may have tons of experience leading a small, medium or large group of people, I have to learn about leadership along the way when building the company. It's definitely been a very fruitful learning experience. The past mistakes that I've made in hiring is mostly on being too desperate. Like there were situations where the circumstances, we hired this person, but this person bailed last minute. We have to reach out to the person second in the line in the last minute and trying to bring him on board.

26:01So this desperation eventually led to a really wrong hire that was causing a lot of trouble that we had to let go after five weeks. So I would say one lesson definitely learned is be patient. Even if you need help, still be patient and be picky because once you're desperate, you might fall short into the criteria of what you should be looking for. Now, we're super blessed to have an exceptional team. Everyone on our team, including Herb, is super independent and capable, extremely passionate about what we do and get along with each other super well. So as a small company, I think a lot of small companies also run into this.

26:52Like we can't offer very competitive compensation compared to the tech giants like Google, Facebook, Apple. So what I do is I try my best to provide a great working environment for our team members. like i once read there is a theory of how people feel motivated and satisfied like there are three elements the three elements are autonomy mastery and purpose so that's how people feel satisfied and feel fulfilling in their work so for autonomy we're a small team that everybody is in charge of their own area. Sometimes people do jump in for various tasks as the team needs, but everybody is in charge of their own area.

27:46I want our team members to be very autonomous. They can be flexible in the schedule of work and how they want to conquer a task. So everybody takes ownership of the project and are free to find their ways to solve problems. I mean, these are extremely capable people. So as a leader, I see my role as setting up the directions and unblocking them when they run into issues. For the second element for the mastery, because all our team members specialize in different areas, they have the expertise that I don't have. so I make sure to listen to their opinions and I respect their opinions. I sometimes can be opinionated or hands-on or even like a perfectionist but I always try to remind myself don't tell people how to do their job like they're the experts in their area I am not so I don't tell them how to do their job.

28:56I'm here as a leader or we are here as a team to communicate what needs to be done, to ask questions and challenge each other's assumption so we can refine the plan together. And then we'll just let the experts take their own decisions of how to execute. That's usually the approach that I take. Now, B-Train, I know you have a lot of genius to share in this area, but for time purposes, we're going to do a quick recap of what we've talked about so far, Fire Nation. We've talked about the origin story of Lumos, about using the power of light to improve sleep, about standing out in a noisy market, about opportunities to run your company without having to go to venture capital funding.

29:42There's some other ways, because hey, let's be honest, running a company is expensive. We talked about building the right team. I mean, man, I love that phrase. Give your team autonomy, mastery, and purpose. Are you doing that with your team right now? Think about that, Fire Nation. and Herb I want to throw it back to you because I know some people have been listening they're like hey Lumos is actually solving a problem right now we're doing something pretty cool for you Fire Nation in conjunction with Providence College and it's going to be a pretty cool opportunity it's going to allow you to support student athletes Fire Nation while of course benefiting yourself from a pretty awesome opportunity so Herb take it away we've partnered with John and Eonfire.

30:28And we are inviting you to take advantage of this opportunity to go to lumos.tech forward slash Eonfire forward slash and enter the code GOFRIERS. Upon entering this code, a percentage of profits will be given to the NIL fund for the Providence College of Student Athletes. You know, we need you guys to support because it's a very, very difficult time in college athletics with NILs. And we want, as Friar Nation, we want to stay competitive and be able to, you know, one day in the very near future win a national championship. So go Friars. Go Friars. And one more time, Herb, what was that URL? So that is lumos.tech forward slash E on fire forward slash and then enter the code go Friars.

31:19Okay, Fire Nation. Remember, the code is GOFRIARS. That's F-R-I-A-R-S. We're going to have the link on the show notes page because that's kind of a tricky URL that you just heard. So just go to eofire.com, type Lumos, L-U-M-O-S in the search bar. The show notes page will pop right up. We'll have links to everything that we've talked about. B-Tram, what's the one thing you want to leave our listeners with today. Regardless of which lifestyles you have, at the end of the day, everyone can benefit from having a healthy circadian rhythm. And that's what we're trying to do. So come check out our product, come support us and come support the Providence College.

32:03Fire Nation, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. You've been hanging out with BL, HH, and JLD today. So keep up the heat. And links to everything we talked about are over at eofire.com. Just type Lumos, L-U-M-O-S, in the search bar, the show notes page will pop right up. And I want to say thank you to B-Tran. I want to say thank you to Herbert for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your value with Fire Nation today. For that, we salute you and we'll catch you on the flip side. Hey, Fire Nation, a huge thank you to our sponsors for sponsoring today's episode. And Fire Nation, successful entrepreneurs accomplish big goals.