Honoring Your Own Path Despite High Stakes Family Pressures with Toni Liu

0:01John Lee Dumas:Boom! Shake the room, Fire Nation. JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire, brought to you by High Level, the all-in-one sales and marketing platform. Today we'll be breaking down how to honor your own path despite high stakes family pressures. To drop these value bombs, I brought Toni Liu and the EO Fire Studios. Toni is a gynecologist turned cartoonist, sex educator, nomad, author, speaker, relationship coach, and mental health advocate, empowering women, LGBT +, neurodivergence, Asian tiger children, and other minorities to live on their own terms. And today we talk about breaking the duty trap, untangling identity, choosing the unconventional path, the myth of noble sacrifice, and oh, so much more.

0:42John Lee Dumas:And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Tony and our sponsors. If you are building a real business, you need real infrastructure. High Level gives you website hosting, funnels, email marketing, automation, calendar booking, payments and course hosting all on one platform, plus award-winning 24-7 support. Get a 30-day free trial and my full bonus stack that includes a 50-minute private call with me and much more at highlevelfire.com, highlevelfire.com. Fire Nation, 50 days will fly right on by. The only question is, will you have something to show for it? I created a free YouTube series called 50 Days to Something, a step-by-step path to build a real product, service, or offer in just 50 focused days.

1:26John Lee Dumas:Start today for free at eofire.com slash YouTube. Tony, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. Hey, John. Thanks so much for having me. So I think for me, becoming successful, in my opinion, requires detachment. The more you want it, the more you can push success away. And I think the key is letting it come to you while you focus on other things. I know for you, your quote was, don't focus on being a person of success, but a person of value. And I think instead of focusing on success, if we focus on impact, on value we bring, but also our internal world.

2:12Because I believe success isn't measured by money or clients or any of that stuff outside. It's really that quiet, steady, and full expression of who you are. Because to me, success is just the freedom to be fully and exactly you. And that includes freedom from money, from status, from who you think you need to be to be worthy. And it's just simply the comfort of being secure in who you are with unshakable peace and self-worth and joy.

2:40John Lee Dumas:I love all that. And listen, it just means a lot that you actually listened to me when I'm speaking, because some people don't. They just go in one ear or the other. But Fire Nation, just in case you weren't aware, Tony and I actually met earlier in the summer of 2025 when we both spoke at a great event in Nepal, specifically Pokhara, Nepal, the Nepal Nomad Business Summit. It was a great time. We had a lot of fun and got to meet a lot of cool people. and now we're just kind of reconnecting many months later and we're going to have a great conversation all about honoring your own path despite high stakes and family pressures.

3:18John Lee Dumas:And I want to talk about breaking the quote-unquote duty trap, Tony, because so many people, they just feel trapped by these unspoken parent-child obligations. How can someone pursue their own path without feeling like they're betraying the family that sacrificed so much for them? Yeah, this is a really tough one, John, to break out of. For me, I think it's because there's always something in common if we can look hard enough. It's not you're choosing you and you're totally turning your back on your family or you're totally listening to them. There's always some middle ground you can work out.

3:55There's always another way that could maybe be a win-win situation. Practical things that I tell people and my clients is breaking it down into the pieces the smallest pieces the nitty-gritty that you can what your family wants and see which parts genuinely feel true for you if they resonate for you or maybe that you can at least stomach them and then honor those pieces and know that even if they can't be convinced to see it that way you are knowing that you're taking into account some of their desires and wishes is enough and this may be a controversial opinion but just because someone sacrificed for you birthing and raising you doesn't mean that you owe them the rest of your entire existence in your life.

4:36They may have sacrificed for 18 years, but then you have many more years than that. So if you really want, okay, I'll pay you back for the 18 years, but then the rest of my life is mine. And then some people would say you don't have a choice in being born either. And sometimes parents have children for their own reasons, whether to help out on the farm or fulfill the void, that they're feeling. So just remembering that it's not so black and white and don't discount what you brought to them as well. The joy, the meaning, the lessons to their lives. You've already done a lot. And many people I know have done even more being the emotional supporter or even reverse parenting their own parents by playing mediator, translator, peacekeeper, or even an emotional punching bag or dumping ground for their parents.

5:26John Lee Dumas:See, I love all of this. And like, I actually look at my personal experience right now. I have a two-year-old son. And, you know, listen, Kate and I stepped back and we said, man, we want to bring a child into this world because we feel like it'll be an amazing experience for us. We feel like we can provide an amazing experience for this child. And it's been wonderful. Of course, there's ups and downs and pros and cons to every decision you make in life. And definitely when it comes to parenting, for sure. Or, I mean, you know, don't plan on sleeping for a little while, but that's just one of those things.

5:59John Lee Dumas:But at the end of the day, it was our decision to bring Bo into this world. And so I don't feel like Bo has like any obligation. I want Bo to be a respectful human being. I want him to, you know, be grateful for what we're providing him, you know, until he decides to leave our home. But to me, like, I really want Bo to find his own path. I want him to be happy. Now, you know, I guess every parent's going to feel differently about that. And that's totally fine. But I'm just saying that's what my perspective is. And that's what my opinion is. And of course, I'm not an expert like Tony. But I mean, I really, you know, had my experience of going to law school because I thought I'd make my father happy and being so miserable there and having to make such a tough decision to drop out of law school, knowing how much it was going to upset him, but knowing that it was the right decision for me for the next, you know, what at that point I was hoping was going to be the next 80 plus years of my life.

6:53John Lee Dumas:I mean, why are we committing ourselves to the one life we have of potential misery or at least unhappiness or at least not the maximum happiness when we really have the opportunity to make a massive impact in this world by choosing what we love to do and to become that person of value that you were talking about earlier, Tony. And I want to talk about untangling identity because for chronic people pleasers, and let's be honest, most of us are people pleasers on some level. How can we separate our authentic desires from expectations that were handed to us by our parents, by culture, by society?

7:29It takes a lot of practice because our authentic desires actually feel different from our people pleasing, or I'll call them PP decisions, because our authentic desires feel there's a sense of excitement, expansion, a sense of your body expanding. You could feel terrified and scared, but it feels light versus a obligation to someone else feels heavy and your body tenses up or contracts or feel sluggish or even nauseous because your body knows before your brain even knows what's right for you what's true for you even if you lie to yourself they found there are actually neurons in our gut that fire faster than our brains it's really really fascinating the neuroscience.

8:15So I believe it's really important to get in touch with our bodies, because especially if we're raised and groomed in an environment where we were never allowed to make our own decisions, we don't really build that muscle. And some of us become so disconnected from our bodies that we just feel numb all the time. And that's just a terrible way to move through life. You kind of feel like you're dead already. You're kind of just going through things, the motions on autopilot. But when you actually find out how to feel alive again, then you have that connection with your body and it really helps you make decisions.

8:48And you can get into just that more relaxed state through a lot of different things you can do. Mindfulness practices, body-based work, somatic work, hypnotherapy, coaching therapy, try it all. I've had to try so many ways to really heal and get that connection back. And now I wouldn't trade it for anything. It was like before I was living life in black and white and now it's full, super vibrant color.

9:12John Lee Dumas:Wow, I love that. I want to talk about choosing the unconventional path, Tony, because I like to call a spade a spade. I mean, entrepreneurial callings, they come with real legitimate risks. So how can we learn to love our uniqueness? Because we're all super unique. And how can we learn to build enough internal stability to tolerate uncertainty, which of course is going to hit us in life without self-sabotage? This is a really great question and tricky. and both you mentioned internal stability I think both internal and external stability to some extent is important but of course the internal has to come first because you have to have so much strength and resilience and you have to believe so much in your vision know yourself so well and deeply and why you're uniquely suited to this mission and you really have to detach your self-worth from your idea of success because success and failure don't define you your worth is always and unconditional.

10:09And when viewed in that way, there's really no possible way to fail. You just see, hey, everything I do is a bonus because every risk I take, every path I choose, I'll gain some kind of lesson or goodie from that along the path. And the only way to really fail is to not try at all or give up. And you'll just get better the more you practice. So just trusting that just because one thing didn't work out, it just prepared you better for the next time. You have a lot of transferable skills and experience, but self-sabotage is really sneaky and self-doubt is so common, imposter syndrome. It's all because your brain is wired against taking risks because it's built for survival, not for happiness, not for expansion or for growth.

10:52So I recommend really working on rewiring the brain into activating these more positive, productive pathways, letting go of perfectionism, unrealistic standards and expectations, and working on your feelings of deservingness, because just to have that belief that you deserve good things just for being you. And that ties back into the uniqueness that you mentioned, just knowing exactly the value you bring in your unique style and knowing that no one else has that exact unique combination of your skills, talents, passions, personality, lived experiences. And so really feeling like, okay, I'm the only one who can do this.

11:32This is my calling. I'm in for as long as it takes and no obstacles can stop me. And then more practically for external stability, I know lots of entrepreneurs and creatives take different ways. Some people do best with just burning the boats, burning all the backup plans, just really committing 110%. But then others I know take a day job or retire early or save up a lot or finding partnerships or barter communities to live in to cut your expenses drastically and cut your risk drastically. And I think that having that backup a plan or skill set, it's unglamorous and it's underrated, but it really can help.

12:07Depends on what kind of person you are. I know for me, I liked having that safety net. That's why I continued and completed medicine rather than dropping out of med school.

12:15John Lee Dumas:Fire Nation, we'll be talking about the myth of noble sacrifice, the fear of being cast out, redefining strength, when we get back from thinking our sponsors. If you've ever tried getting a traditional bank loan for your business, then you already know that it's not exactly fast or easy. Between rising costs, tighter lending standards, and all the hoops you have to jump through, it can feel like you're stuck waiting when your business needs capital now. That's why I want to tell you about Revenued. Revenued is for small business owners who need fast, flexible access to working capital without relying on your personal credit score.

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13:24John Lee Dumas:That's revenued with a d.com slash fire. Apply today and be ready for whatever comes next. Fire Nation, if you are building a real business, you need real infrastructure. That is why High Level is Entrepreneur on Fire's featured partner. High Level gives you a website builder and hosting, funnels and landing pages, email marketing, appointment scheduling, payment processing, course and membership hosting, and so much more. Everything you need to succeed all under one roof. No duct tape, no juggling five platforms, just one clean system for your business and their award-winning 24-7 support has your back when you need it most.

14:00John Lee Dumas:When you sign up at highlevelfire.com, you also get my exclusive bonus stack, a 30-day free trial, a private 15-minute call with me, JLD, access to my weekly live office hours, a digital copy of my book, The Common Path to Uncommon Success, my 50 days to something execution roadmap, and more. Visit highlevelfire.com and start building your something today. Tony, I wanna talk about the myth of noble sacrifice. I mean, we're told that sacrificing for others is this grand virtuous thing, but where's the line? Like, where's the line between healthy generosity and slowly depleting ourself until there's just nothing left to give?

14:43That one also can sneak up on us and be hard to distinguish until you're already almost empty. I would say healthy generosity, true generosity is you giving without any expectation, without any strings attached. And therefore it doesn't deplete you because you're not expecting anything. You're just like, this was so joyful to give. I'm so gratified that I could help somebody else. And it can even fill you up with those feelings. and I think that healthy giving comes from taking such good care of yourself and pouring into yourself so much that you just overflow naturally that you just can't help but share with others whether your joy your resources whatever it is you might sacrifice some comfort but you don't betray your core values or the core of who you are and especially not your morals because depleting yourself by pouring into other cups, other people's cups at the expense of yourself, that would be, you would feel it feels exhausting, constricting.

15:44You might have a lot of feelings of guilt and shame while you're doing this and your body just won't feel safe or good because you're betraying yourself and the things most important to you. And this is tricky because it might feel good in the moment to give, but then afterwards you hit that low and then you may start feeling unappreciated and resentful. And so that's a sneaky form of self-depletion. And it could sneak up. It's not one thing, but it's the accumulation of many small sacrifices without leaving enough time to nourish yourself, replenish yourself, and fill yourself back up again. If you just think of yourself as a tank, maybe that helps some people.

16:23And maybe it's not just one thing out of your comfort zone, but maybe you've given too much too quickly. So just keeping an eye on that tank, how much you're pouring out. And also just remembering to remember yourself, because I know that it can happen a lot where you're just thinking about the other person only and you lose yourself. But if you're just kind of able to keep an eye on both, then you can track and make sure that you're not overgiving. And I think some good questions to ask yourself would be before you do anything, just ask, do I actually have the capacity to? Is it the right time?

16:58What else do I have going on? and number two can I truly give this without expectations and also considering how much does this mean to this person how much would it impact them and if any of these answers aren't the total green light then maybe think about it some more and it's okay to say no you don't have to feel ever feel guilty for just protecting your energy and your peace and your comfort by just saying no no is a complete answer.

17:26John Lee Dumas:Do I actually have the capacity to, to me, that's such a powerful question to ask yourself, Fire Nation. I mean, that's saved me a number of times and it's actually bit me in the butt when I haven't done that as well. So definitely learn quickly and just the power of saying no. I like to actually say the phrase, whenever you say yes to one thing, you're saying no to all the other things you could potentially be doing in this place, which is just a powerful way to look at that. So let's talk about redefining strength because many people believe they're just too weak to break away from their tribe.

17:59John Lee Dumas:I mean, what myths about codependency need to be dismantled so people can reclaim agency without that crushing guilt? I would say the biggest myth is that it's codependent because humans were wired to be tribal. So it's totally okay to feel like, oh, it's too weak. I'm too weak. There's no way I can actually betray my tribe because it is one of the worst feelings to be isolated and alone. And literally our cells and our DNA carry memory and remember that deeply. So it's just being a normal human. But my hack for it is saying you just shift your tribe. You don't need to fully cut off from the old people.

18:40You can just slowly transition, replace one person with another healthier relationship. And it can take years, but it's definitely worth it. And even if you have to leave, people overestimate how bad it would actually be because you're going to be okay. We are stronger and more resilient than we know. And we can always go back because a lot of mistakes are reversible and non-fatal. And when you have even just one quality person believing in you, then trust me, it makes such a huge difference. Everything else becomes easier. And the people, if you've heard of that quote, the people who matter won't mind and the people who mind don't matter.

19:17John Lee Dumas:Yeah, that's really powerful. Because it's not a real loss if they can't see or support the real you. It was never really a real connection anyway. It was just a transaction or they were taking advantage of you. See, that's a great segue into like this fear being cast out, like which a lot of us have because of that tribal mentality that we've been talking about here. So what if pursuing our truth, our path actually means disappointing or even losing people that we do actually love? So how can we distinguish healthy conflict from toxicity or even emotional abuse? Yeah, that's really tough. And I've had to go through a lot of that with my family.

19:54And I think it just takes time because a lot of times there can be that initial shock when you're making a change. But then I think most people come around if they truly have, it's a healthy relationship and they have that genuine love and concern for you. I think in healthy conflict as well, there's a desire to truly understand you and at least an attempt to hear you out, see your side, making some flexibility to change and at some point acceptance. And it may take a long time, but at least there's a level of respect and desire to repair. But on the other hand, toxicity and abuse, they don't care about your perspectives or your feelings.

20:32And even when you tell them that they're hurting you, they don't change much. They don't let up. They continue to guilt trip, manipulate, or twist things into a new way of hurting you. So just remember that when you love yourself so much, then you're able to keep yourself full and you no longer settle for these kinds of toxic breadcrumbs. And this may be an unpopular opinion again, but I believe no one, not even blood family or the people who've raised you, have a right to be close in your life or your inner world if they are toxic. Because love is an action. It's a verb. It's about behaviors and how you treat people, not about blood.

21:08And it may take time, but I think everyone can truly find your tribe, your found family, your chosen family, and people who truly can see you and get you and hear you out. And I'd rather have quality over quantity any day. Just be loved by a quality few. And it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. That has given me so much strength in my journey.

21:29John Lee Dumas:Oh, powerful. I mean, there's been so much we talked about here today. you know, the fear of being cast out, redefining strength, the noble sacrifice, choosing the unconventional path, untangling identity, breaking the duty trap. Tony, give us the one key takeaway that you would love for our listeners to walk away with from our conversation today. Oh, only one. Okay. Maybe it'll be this one that just giving yourself permission that it's okay to disappoint other people or even to anger and upset them because as long as you're being true to yourself and you're a kind respectful responsible self-sufficient person someone else's reactions to your life it's none of their business really but also it says way more about them not about you because when you have a finger they point a finger at you there are three fingers pointing right back at them so and it's like this analogy i heard that you could be the best song in the world and some people would still hate it.

22:31Like there's no one song that everybody loves, right? So why would it be possible for everybody to like you? So I think so many people, we may have been raised to think that, but that's actually a myth that's really keeping us trapped. And what does loyalty really mean when you're not also being loyal to yourself? When there is this, there's infinitely ever increasing possibilities in this world. And there's always some way we just have to look hard enough that can honor a bit of both sides. And just another metaphor that came to me is just like, if it's empty loyalty to others, it's like chopping your head off and just giving your head to someone else.

23:08Now with someone who really, really cares about you, would they want that for you? Would you, would they want you to do that for them? So maybe I'll leave with that.

23:16John Lee Dumas:Yeah, that's a great visual image. Thank you for that. And Tony, If Fire Nation wants to connect with you, wants to learn more from you, what is your call to action for our listeners today? Oh, yeah, just connect with me. You know, I have so many free resources. Just come to my website, drtooni.com, D-R-T-O-O-N-I.com. Just join my email list and you'll get like a bundle of 10 resources. I have my own podcast as well. But, yeah, let's just start this journey together. if you're struggling with anything that we talked about today. Which, by the way, Fire Nation, I was a guest on that podcast, so definitely go give that a listen.

23:55John Lee Dumas:And Fire Nation, you're the average. Of the five people you spend the most time with, and you've been hanging out with TL and JLD today, so keep up the heat. And for links to everything we talked about, visit eofire.com, just type Tony, T-O-N-I, in the search bar, and the show notes page will pop right up. And Tony, thank you for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your value with Fire Nation today. for that. We salute you and we'll catch you on the flip side. Thanks so much, JLD. Hey, Fire Nation, a huge thank you to our sponsors and Tony for sponsoring today's episode. And Fire Nation, are you an entrepreneur on fire who's looking to share your amazing message with the world?

24:31John Lee Dumas:If yes, we are now accepting applications for entrepreneurs on fire. To learn more about becoming a guest, visit eofire.com slash guest, and I'll catch you there or on the flip side. If you are building a real business, you need real infrastructure. High Level gives you website hosting, funnels, email marketing, automation, calendar booking, payments, and course hosting all on one platform, plus award-winning 24-7 support. Get a 30-day free trial and my full bonus stack that includes a 15-minute private call with me and much more at highlevelfire.com. Highlevelfire.com. Fire Nation, 50 days will fly right on by.