How 3 Doctors Are Breaking The Sales Training Mold with Daniel Bai: An EOFire Classic from 2022

0:01Light that spark fire nation JLD here and welcome to entrepreneurs on fire the only daily show interviewing the world's top entrepreneurs seven days a week. Today, we're pulling a classic episode from the archives, and we'll be breaking down how three doctors are breaking the sales training mold. To talk about these value bombs, I brought Daniel Bai into EO Fire Studios. Daniel is the CEO of Clothes for Cairo and tackles a sensitive subject matter of sales head-on. Alongside his two partners, they become the top sales training program in the chiropractic industry and beyond. In today's foundation, we'll talk about how you must embrace and learn sales, art, science, and philosophy, and how most doctors are accidentally salesmen, and how to focus on sales, and so much more.

0:42And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Daniel and our sponsors. Fire Nation, this is your year to get unstuck and to grow a successful business. Attend the world's highest rated business growth workshop taught personally by Clay Clark, and now featuring football star Tim Tebow and President Trump's son, Eric Trump, at thrivetimeshow.com slash EOFire. Again, request life-changing tickets today at thrivetimeshow.com slash EO Fire. These days, your business needs total visibility from global shipments to tariff impacts to real-time cash flow. That's NetSuite by Oracle, your AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 41 ,000 businesses.

1:19Download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade, Three Insights for Leaders at netsuite.com slash fire. Dan, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. Hello, Fire Nation. This is Dan from Clothes for Cairo shouting all you guys out. Thanks for joining us today. Wow. What is something I believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with? This is an easy one, and that is embracing and learning the art, science and philosophy of sales. Sales usually gets a bad rap. So when I usually lead with that, get a lot of eyebrows that raise.

2:03I get people to tell me that my concept and my construct about sales is wrong. It's sleazy. And I believe that's probably the one thing that most people disagree with. And Fire Nation, we're going to spend pretty much the rest of the episode proving to you just how right Dan is because we're going to talk about how three doctors are breaking the sales training molds. So Dan, let's be honest with Fire Nation. Doctors aren't just bad at sales. They are terrible. What have you learned training the doctors to not be so terrible at sales? Well, first of all, most doctors are what we call accidental salesmen.

2:43And that's actually the title of a book that I read very early on in my career. They didn't start their careers ever contemplating that they were ever going to need to learn anything about sales or marketing or even business for that matter. So classically, you're right, John. Most doctors are horrible at business in general. And on top of that, they're even notoriously horrible at sales. And the reason why they're so bad at sales is because they all come to the table with this very antiquated and old-fashioned notion that sales is supposed to be sleazy. It's trying to convince someone that they should buy from you something that people don't want, don't need, don't care about, and frankly can't even afford.

3:31And their job is to convince them against their will for them to do something that they honestly from their core do not want to do. So that is problem number one, because if they can't accept that sales is a fundamental thing, kind of like marketing or creative writing or any subject in academia for that matter, if they can't even come to the table and accept that sales is a thing that needs to be studied, like any other art form, that stops the tape right there. They're never going to read about it, never going to learn about it. And for a matter of fact, they will never ever listen to a guy like me about it.

4:08So Fire Nation, I hope you're really understanding this whole process. I mean, I look back at it and I'm just like, people didn't graduate dental school or chiropractic school or medical school and say, okay, now I'm going to go out and I'm going to find out how to get clients. I'm going to find out how to market myself. I'm going to find out how to get traffic to my store. They're like, no, like I'm an expert at A, B or C or one of those things. But man, if you really want to be a success in these industries, you're going to some of these skills. And there's something called a prospects BS meter that I want to dive into, Dan.

4:42So what the heck is a prospects BS meter? Well, BS stands for what everyone should know what BS stands for. And a BS meter is this very subjective meter that every human being has. And that is a media that tells the person innately, subconsciously, if something is BS or not. And I don't think I have to go into this, John. I think we all understand there are certain situations where we talk to people, whether in a sales environment or even in a dating environment or social environment. Some people just kind of make you say, you know, I don't believe you. I don't trust you, and I don't really believe that speaking to you or having you serve me serves my best interests because you're trying to push your own agenda, which I don't agree with.

5:39So that BS meter now, especially in today's time, and I don't know if we're going to date this, but right now, everyone knows what's going on. People are way more sensitive on this BS meter. They're questioning everything. And when a prospect has that very sensitive BS meter, you have to know what you're doing because you can inherently tick off people's BS meter without even knowing it. And that happens to a lot of people who, what I say, who I say train or try to sell by looking like they don't want to sell. And that dichotomy and that contradiction right there sets up the raised eyebrow and makes the prospect say, you know, I can't put my finger on it, but that guy is just, I don't think I really want to buy from him.

6:31I don't think I want to be his patient or be his customer or be his client. and there's so many different ways that salespeople and accidental salespeople, especially doctors in my field, tip off the BS meter every single day and they just can't understand how or why. They just know at the end of the conversation, their patient, their customer, their client says, you know what, I'm going to have to go talk to my fish about this. It's just not, I don't know. I need to go home and think about it. It's too much money, too much time. And I think for entrepreneurs, we've all heard the plethora of objections and excuses why they can't do business with you.

7:08And we have to be very cognizant about the BS meter. It's there. You can't deny it. You got to be careful. So there's a lot of people who, frankly, could not tell you the difference between marketing and sales. They think they're one and the same. They think that marketing and sales and sales and marketing can be interchanged. What are the differences of the two? And what would you say the key differences of marketing versus sales? This is going to be something that most people disagree with. And I have this debate online and on social almost every day. And so just to give you a story, back in the early 2000s, I ran an ad in a local paper.

7:48I grew up in New York City, Upper East Side, and my practice was there, and I was fresh right out of practice. I didn't know a soul. I just knew that I needed people to serve, and I wanted to. So, you know, looking forward to helping people. But, you know, it's crickets. No one coming in. So I had to do something. So my first attempt at advertising, I took it, and I put an ad into a local newspaper, and I put it out there. and after a couple thousand dollars later and a couple of weeks later guess what happened absolutely nothing happened like zero zilch nobody came through the door not even one call and it absolutely crushed me and I still remember that feeling because that feeling was so so much depth and at my core I just felt like a complete failure and I you know even contemplated Is this really what I want to do for a living?

8:42It was a very dark time in my life. And so I said to myself, you know what? But that's marketing. So marketing means that I just have to go out there and put myself out there. And if I'm doing marketing, then the fact that this didn't work is justifiable, right? So I said all of these things to myself, John, just to make me feel better about what a failure I was. But in retrospect, I wasn't marketing. I was actually selling because when you're selling something, you're doing something with an expectation of a return. And there's nothing wrong with that. If you advertise, if I spent$3 ,000 at that time, which is a lot that I didn't have that I had to borrow, I didn't do it because I just wanted good PR back then.

9:27I didn't know what PR was. I just wanted to put it out there and I wanted a return. I wanted someone to come in because they saw the ad. That's actually sales. Now, the problem that we're having is that when people do marketing, they do the same thing that I did. They make excuses on why marketing didn't work. And they constantly get on this merry-go-round, constantly spending money, trying to get returns, and always falling short because they don't treat it as sales. Now, if we treat it as sales, see, the difference is enormous. because someone who understands sales, number one, their number one objective in sales is how quickly and how efficiently and how accurately can I get into the perspective of my prospects?

10:12That is the number one job of any salesperson worldwide. Doesn't matter what product or service. And if you're marketing from that perspective, that means you're doing a very good job selling. But when most people do marketing, it's so it's so generic. It's so, hi, my name is Dan. I'm a chiropractor and I can help you. What, who in their right mind right now would ever reply to an ad like that? But if you do marketing from a sales perspective, it sounds something like this. Hi, you know what? The other day I got up from my chair and I almost doubled over because I couldn't feel my right foot. Completely numb.

10:50I felt like in the movie, someone chopped it off from the ankle, but I look down, I still have my ankle. What is going on? I can't even sit for my son's hockey game for more than a period because the pain is excruciating. And right now it's even affecting my bowels. Is this you? Well, this was me back in 2011. I got to tell you something, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That's the copy for an ad because it's in the perspective of the people that you're trying to serve and help. That's sales. Now, what's the difference between marketing and sales, John? Well, I'll tell you. Marketing is just the early, early, early, early moment of the sales process.

11:30So to me, marketing is a myth. I don't think we should use that word anymore. It just gives so many entrepreneurs excuses on why their sales sucks. We got to start selling in the right way, ethically, without making people feel bad about it, without the old school WPRK in Cincinnati, big fat tie, plait jacket. You guys know what I'm talking about. We got to stop that. That's old school. That don't work anymore. But modern sales is all about the efficiency and the eloquence and the elegance of getting into this perspective of your people that you want to serve to a level where they just say, oh, this guy knows or this lady knows me.

12:07And I want to do business with people who know me. And that's all sales. Fire Nation, so many great takeaways from this. Dan, great job differentiating the two and going into some real key details as well as key examples, which is always very helpful for me. and I know for you too, Fire Nation. We're going to talk about objections. We're going to get the really deep dive details on the best sales secret, STFU, and so much more when we get back from thanking our sponsors. Fire Nation, this is your year to get unstuck and to grow a successful business. Are you looking to learn the proven processes and success systems that have been used to create thousands of millionaire success stories?

12:45See thousands of success stories and testimonials from real people just like you who Clay Clark has mentored and coached into prosperity at thrivetimeshow.com slash EO fire. Clay's proven business coaching program is month to month and costs less money than hiring a minimum wage employee. Yes, it's month to month and costs less money than hiring a minimum wage employee. Schedule your free personal 13 point assessment with Clay Clark himself today at thrivetimeshow.com slash EO fire because Clay only takes on 160 clients and only allows 300 attendees to each business conference. You will interact with Clay directly.

13:17See thousands of real success stories and learn about attending the Thrive Time Show two-day in-person workshop featuring football star Tim Tebow and President Trump's son, Eric Trump, today at ThriveTimeShow.com slash EOFire. Become the next success story. Schedule a free consultation and request tickets to join football star Tim Tebow and President Trump's son, Eric Trump, at Clay Clark's next business conference today at ThriveTimeShow.com slash EOFire. I think we can all agree that it's an interesting time for business. Tariff and trade policies are shifting. which affects supply chains, cashflow, and more.

13:49And if your business can't adapt in real time, that's a big concern. You need total visibility from global shipments to tariff impacts to real-time cashflow. And for that, there's NetSuite by Oracle, your AI-powered business management suite trusted by over 41 ,000 businesses. NetSuite is a number one cloud ERP bringing accounting, financial management, inventory, and HR into one suite, giving you one source of truth and the visibility and control to make quick decisions with real-time forecasting you're peering into the future, allowing you to know what's stuck, what it's costing you, and how to pivot fast.

14:20And with AI tools, you can automate everyday tasks, allowing your teams to stay strategic. If our business needed this type of software, I'd use NetSuite in a heartbeat. It's one system, full control, tame the chaos with NetSuite. If your revenues are at least in the seven figures, download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade, Three Insights for Leaders at netsuite.com slash fire. That's netsuite.com slash fire. Dan, we're all going to face objections in our lives. It's just a part of being a human being. It's a part of going on this journey of life. But tell us the truth. What is the truth about objections?

14:54John, the truth about objections is that once you get them, the statistical odds of you overcoming those objections when you receive them are not very good. Most people are objecting to you, let's say, at the end of the sales cycle. So for example, if you're selling, let's say, a landscape design project and it's worth$10 ,000,$20 ,000,$100 ,000 project, you get all the way to the end of your sales cycle. You did a great job and it felt good and it looked like the client was tracking with you. Everything was lollipops and unicorns and I just love life. It's going to happen. And all of a sudden, the big hammer hits you right between the eyes and the client or the customer says, you know what?

15:38you know, I just feel like it's a little bit too much money or, you know what, I think I got to go home and think about it. See, most salespeople believe that that prospect came to the conclusion this was something they didn't want to do right now or they had to talk about it in that moment. Now, the reality is, is that most people, most people who have objected to your sales process or your product or service has already objected to it well before the words were uttered, I object. It may have happened on the first phone call, but for some reason or another, the prospect still went through the process with you.

16:20And people do some amazingly crazy things. Why would they do that? But they do that. Maybe it was when you're presenting your value stack, as we call it, and your suite of services. maybe just sounded like it wasn't for them because it wasn't in their particular perspective. Or maybe you tipped off the BS meter on phase one of this process. That's when they objected. But unfortunately, people don't stop you. And I'll tell you why. People don't stop people from selling to them because they don't want to confront. And they don't want to have to confront the process of confront the salesperson that they don't want it.

17:01They're trying to be kind and they don't want to be rude. So they wait until you're done. They're looking for an opportunity to finally say, you know what? It's not something I really want to do right now. I need to go home and talk to my Doberman. He tells me what to do. I'm just short on cash and there are the objections. So the understanding of the timing of the objections are incredibly important. And it's funny because I have two great partners, Sean and Jen. And Jen always says things like she always believes, not only because she's a woman, women sell better because they're innately wired to receive.

17:42And most women salespeople, what I found is that they feel the objection before they've uttered it. And usually they'll stop them at that point and address it. And so when we see the objection happening, number one, we have to get trained on recognizing the signs. And we go through all that, all of our training for our docs. And it's a mind-blowing experience because you've seen it before and now you realize, oh, this is a thing. The second thing is to have a system of presenting your product and service in a way that it preemptively handles the objection before they even had the opportunity to formulate it in their brains.

18:20Now, it's taken a long time for me to actually eloquently explain that in something that we do. But when you actually address the objections before they become a twinkle in your prospect's eye, you've increased the odds of them saying yes to a service or product that you know will help them in the long run. So Fire Nation, I really hope you're understanding that this is the process of life. We're always going to have objections. people are always going to say something, but they might be meaning something else because guess what? Most people are people pleasers. So you have to see that through the proper way.

18:57And I've kind of teased this a little bit in the intro and then right before the break, STFU, your best sales secret, Dan. Break it down for us. STFU stands for, I don't know if I should, you know, if I can curse on this, but you can bleep it out, John, but it means shut the f*** up. Just stop. Stop. Don't speak. Don't talk. My partner, Sean Rundle, he has been quoted saying, closing and selling is something that we do for our people. It's not something that we do to our people. And STFU is the perfect example because when someone's trying to sell someone or close someone, which is the terms that we usually hear it.

19:40It's not true. We close for them and we sell for them. And if you make that distinction in terms of closing and selling being a service, as opposed to something you're doing to somebody, what actually happens is innately, you stop talking a lot and you're now allowing, I guess, the thorough and dynamic forces of the universe to fill the vacuum up with something. And your prospects are the ones that are going to fill that void with what they want. what they need, what they desire at a level that's very deep. And they connect it to you, the salesperson or the provider, the service of the product as the solution or the filler of the void.

20:23All too often, because we're not trained properly and our emotional quotient on sales is so low that we think that the only way to sell something and convince someone that I'm the best choice or I'm the best price or I'm the best service or I'm the best product They feel like the only way to do that is to keep talking and verbally vomit all of your features of your service or product over and over and over again. If they don't hear it, you just have a tendency to say it louder. And you just fill all this space with me, me, me, I, I, we, we, instead of the lovely word of you. So what we train our dogs to do, and this is so important for healthcare providers, is that they've got to shut up.

21:08They have to be quiet. They have to ask an open-ended question. And even if your prospects in our situation, if our patients say something that we disagree with, this is the moment where you're tested. Can you STF you? Because if you can, your patients will literally give you everything on a silver platter on how to be the go-to person as their solution to their problem. If you're selling a product or service, same thing. Can you STF you long enough for your clients or your customers to say, hey, this is exactly what I want. This is how I want it. And this is how it needs to be. Then you can tailor your offerings in that perspective, as opposed to telling them how this is going to go or what they're going to get, not having any idea of what your prospects and your customers and clients and patients actually want.

22:02Wow. I mean, Fire Nation, sometimes you just need to break it down to the bare bones. The best sales secret coming at you from Dan, S-T-F-U. Now, Dan, we've talked a lot about a lot today. What is the one core theme? What is the one thing from everything that we broke down today that you really want to make sure Fire Nation gets from our entire conversation? I guess the one takeaway that I wish all the listeners here take away with, and I talk about this with my illustrious partners, Dr. Sean Rundle and Jen Rosenhardt, and we talk about this a lot and we brainstorm this, is most, especially chiropractors, we didn't grow up saying we wanted to be chiropractors.

22:44We did the same thing. We wanted to be firemen and surgeons and fighter pilots and so forth. But we stumbled onto this incredible profession because ultimately we wanted to help people. And the thing that breaks our heart the most is that there's so many altruistic providers of products and services that all they really want to do ultimately at the end of their time on earth is to serve people to a better way of life, whether it's through a product or service or a healthcare product or service, it doesn't really matter. And it breaks a heart when these very well-intentioned people are living check to check, trying to move out of their parents' basement and resenting the fact that they can't get enough people to consume their product and service at enough of a rate to just make ends meet for that particular person when the intentions are so pure.

23:40And so the one takeaway here is that if anyone is listening and you're in that position where either one, you're plateaued or you want to increase the level of your business, or you just feel really unfulfilled that people don't understand what you're providing, I'm going to tell you, it's sales at the core level of it if you understand sales from a strategic and theoretical level in modern terms it will absolutely revolutionize not only your business but your outlook and the type of impact that many of you have the potential to have in your career and everyone that you're serving so that's that's one takeaway john give us the best way to connect with you, any call to action you have for our listeners, then we'll say goodbye.

24:25Sure. You guys, if you want more of this, and we have a lot of these mini tips and free downloads and PDFs and all the things that I'm talking about and more, then you can find that on www.closeforchiro.com slash fire. Fire Nation, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with, and you've been hanging out with DB and JLD today. So keep up the heat and head over to eofire.com. Type Dan in the search bar. His show notes page will pop up with everything we've talked about here today. Best show notes in the biz. And Dan, thank you, brother, for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your value with Fire Nation today.

25:04For that, we salute you, and we'll catch you on the flip side. Thank you, JLD. Thanks for all you do, brother. Appreciate it. Hey, Fire Nation. Today's value bomb content was brought to you by Dan and Fire Nation. Successful entrepreneurs accomplish big goals. That's why I created the Freedom Journal to guide you in accomplishing your number one goal in 100 days. And we're talking step by step. So visit thefreedomjournal.com and I'll catch you there or I'll catch you on the flip side. Fire Nation, this is your year to get unstuck and to grow a successful business. Attend the world's highest rated business growth workshop taught personally by Clay Clark and now featuring football star Tim Tebow and President Trump's son, Eric Trump at thrivetimeshow.com slash EO fire.

25:47Again, request life-changing tickets today at thrivetimeshow.com slash EO fire. These days, your business needs total visibility from global shipments to tariff impacts to real time cashflow. That's NetSuite by Oracle, your AI powered business management suite trusted by over 41 ,000 businesses. Download the free ebook, Navigating Global Trade, three insights for leaders at netsuite.com slash fire.

26:16Thank you.