How this Former Magician Hacked the Social Media Algorithms with Justin Flom

0:01Light that, Spark Fire Nation. JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire. are brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals with great shows like Success Story Podcast. Today, we'll be breaking down how this former magician hacked the social media algorithms. To drop these value bombs, I brought Justin Flom and the EU Fire Studios. Creator Justin, renowned magician, before entering social media, garners billions of online views. A true data analyst, his success lies in his ability to create what the internet likes. And today, Foundation, we'll talk about how views don't pay the rent.

0:39So what revenue streams can you leverage from views, from data analyst to a true creator? We're going to talk about that. What's the one social media platform that is Justin's favorite? And we're going to look into the future as well of content creation and so much more. And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Justin and our sponsors. The Next Wave, your chief AI officer, hosted by Matt Wolf and Nathan Lands, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Matt and Nathan are leading AI creators in your guiding light in the AI and technology frontier.

1:14AI technology is transforming the way we do business and the media landscape is fragmented. The Next Wave strives to be the leading podcast on AI technology and how you can apply it to growing your business. Listen to The Next Wave wherever you get your podcasts. Justin, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with? Yeah, that's a great question. Most people think quality is like the most important thing, but then they're going to lose out on the opportunities by waiting for something to be great before they put it out there.

1:54And I am a big fan of standup comedians and the way that they develop their material where they just go up and they got to throw it against the wall. And that means doing it in front of real people. And the internet has now given us the ability to just try things out every day, new things. And if I wouldn't have done that, I wouldn't have any of the success I have here today. I had to try things in front of real people, which is the internet, that I didn't know if they were going to work. And then I follow the data to see what worked. That's the secret to success, especially online. Okay, real talk.

2:30did you like the Tom Brady roast? Oh man, it's so fun. I just watched clips of it last night. I thought Nikki Glaser had an incredible set. I thought Kevin Hart was very good at hosting. You know what? I think Tom had no idea what he was in for. I think that poor football player did not know what a roast was. But you know what? Good for him. He was a good sport. He was a better sport than his ex-wife. Well, I'm born and raised in New England, I will say. So I'm a huge Tom Brady fan. That guy was legendary for us. And I can tell you, I loved the roast. I loved seeing him getting roasted. I think it was a good thing that happened.

3:13And man, I just really did also appreciate the Nikki Glaser. So much so actually that I went ahead and popped on her Netflix special. I would never have done that. But then I saw her last night on Netflix. I was like, I'm going to check that out. And man, she is dynamite. I mean, Fire Nation. That's a person who can get up there and just throw stuff against a wall. Now, I want to turn the conversation back to you, brother, because we're talking about how you as a former magician hacked the social media algorithm literally because you were this world-renowned magician and you pivoted in becoming one of the most viewed creators in the world.

3:53So tell us that story. Yeah, man. The magic really informs my decision making. I'm very lucky to have been a magician because it's a visual art form. It utilizes secrets. And now what the public want, they want to know secrets. I want to know secrets. And we want to tell those secrets online. So now I get to do that, not just here where I'll give you the secrets of hacking the algorithm. Absolutely. But also, I get to use the secrets of magic to do really cool, interesting visual things. So understanding kind of the deceptive side of magic and illusion, the smoke and mirrors, if you will, that gave me kind of a really good head start on any of the content because a lot of times social media is deceptive.

4:43So now I don't like any deceptive social media stuff. So I actually like to be more honest with the audience when I do these things. So I get to share secrets of magic. And but in hacking the algorithm, here's the real secret. The algorithm is a misnomer. It's it's a misleading word. Really, when you hear the word algorithm, just replace it with watch time or human beings. You know, whatever human beings are interacting with, that is what is going to be at the top of the feed. So you brought up the roast of Tom Brady. Well, the reason I watched it last night was because it was at the top of my feed and everyone was watching it.

5:27So we're in a new world. This is an exciting world where no longer are an elite few choosing what everyone watches. It's the public. If we're watching it, it's going to be at the top of the feed with a water cooler conversation to use a phrase from yesteryear. And the question is just how do you get to the top of people's feed? And it is by making sure that they watch your video. Now, I know that sounds oversimplifying it, but really you can hack the algorithm once you just realize all I need people to do is to finish my video. And so that's the end result. So then the first thing is, well, then I need people to start my video.

6:10And then it comes down to my very most important factor in every piece of video creating. What's the opening shot? How am I grabbing their attention? How do I stop the swipe? Because we're all in a swipe feed. Everything is a swipe feed now. TikTok, YouTube Shorts, even Netflix is a swipe feed where they're tracking how you're swiping through that content. So if you can stop that swipe, grab their attention, and then you get them to finish that video, finish that content, then that's how you end up with 1.4 billion views in the last month that I've got on YouTube alone. And that's all from opening shots and delivering pieces of content that people want to finish.

6:55That's what it is. Now, Justin, I want to talk about dollar dollar bills. Because listen, views alone don't pay the rent. And we've all heard of that person that went viral like Mr. Double Rainbow and got all those views, but it turned into absolutely nothing. Zero, zip, zilch. So let's get specific on what revenue streams can one leverage to create income from views, from videos. The first thing I'd say, you've got a lot of entrepreneurs is listening right now. And you've got a guy here, me, talking about 1.4 billion views just last month. A week ago, I was the most viewed creator on YouTube in the US, beat out Mr.

7:38Beast by seven spots, wild. And what I'd say to entrepreneurs, I'd say, hey, give me a call. Like, I've got 100 million views on these pieces of content that I want to share because you're right. Monetizing it through the platform isn't always the best way. Like, it will depress. You want real numbers? I'll give you a real number. 1.4 billion views on YouTube Shorts is$80 ,000, okay? Now, if it was long-form content, that would be 3 million, like, estimated. So just by going from short-form to long-form, you increase crazy amounts of money just from$80 ,000 to$3 million. Okay, so what does that mean?

8:27Well, that means that either I'm in the wrong space creating short-form content, or it means I have to monetize this content in a different way. And that's what I'm doing right now is I go, you know what? I like the short game. It's fun. the content is I think at its best when it's 60 seconds and people can watch it again and again but that means that I've got to get brand deals I've got to leverage those views for money in a different way by selling products or by touring you know if I get my name recognition out there to a point where then I start touring and doing live shows things like that or I also keep up the long-form side where the more money is.

9:09Because on Facebook, which is a swipe feed that's long-form, that's where the most of my money has come in over the last half of the decade to the tune of millions because it's long-form. Does that make sense, the difference between those two? It does truly make sense. So I guess the question to kind of finish this off is, if somebody is getting tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of views, what are a couple things they can do to generate revenue beyond whatever YouTube's going to send them? Once you develop that skill set and you can prove to a client, hey, this is consistent for me.

9:48I'm going to bring in double digit millions in views, pretty much guaranteed. You just give me the product. The first thing I would say is, yeah, do endorsements, do product deals, do brand deals. Absolutely. That's the first thing. The second thing is, you know, figure out the platform that is taking your content and paying the most for it and partner with them. So I'm betting on YouTube myself. I would really like it to be Facebook because Facebook pays me more. But they've really made it a little bit difficult in the last two years. Some big algo shifts, big changes in the algorithm. And, you know, they're just not as transparent as Google when it comes to how they're paying and what they're paying and ways to really rise up in the ranks.

10:41So if you if you're getting millions of views, first of all, congratulations, the competition is great. And the next I would say, hey, you got to you got to figure out which platform is paying the most money. And if you are successful on a platform that's not paying the most money, start bringing in other people to carry that load. Because 100 million views on a piece of content, whether it be on TikTok or anywhere, that's valuable to somebody. Get some brand names in there. Fire Nation, we have a lot more to talk about. We're going to look into the future. We're going to talk about one social media platform and so much more when we get back from thanking our sponsors.

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13:11That's E-T-H-O-S life.com slash fire. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Running a business takes a lot of time and effort. And when you're focused on business growth, it's easy to let self-care slip. But something I prioritize every single day, no matter what, is my health, both physical and mental. In addition to the daily supplements and workouts are spaces of time I give myself to just relax. No devices, no music, just peace and quiet. But I know how difficult it can be to make this happen in between the chaos of daily life. So if you need a little help creating space like this, then therapy can help.

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14:33And that little term is called the barrier to exit. So we've all heard of barrier to entry, right? Barrier to exit is how hard is it for somebody to leave what you're doing, your services, your show, your content. And like, imagine yourself going to the movie theater, the barrier to exit is pretty high. I mean, you bought a ticket, you parked your car, maybe even got a babysitter. There's other people sitting around you. That movie has to suck really bad for you to get up and walk out. So high barrier to exit. So you're going to have a lot more people finishing that product in a movie theater or in a live show or an in-person interaction.

15:12However, on TikTok, on Facebook, on YouTube, that barrier to exit is one inch of your little fingers swiping up. That's it. And that swipe, not only that, we've educated our audience to understand the entire wealth of all of human history is one swipe away and the algorithm is going to feed you exactly what you want. So they are highly motivated to leave your content. That's bad. What does that mean? That means that you better be speaking directly to your audience and giving them something that they want. Now, I'm a magician and a spray paint artist and a home reno guy putting secret passageways in my house.

15:55I've found that the audience actually doesn't want that stuff. So how do I give it to them? They don't know that they want it. They actually are happy at the end of it, but they don't know it. So that means that I have to give them a little bit of mystery at the top. Hey, why is this guy chainsawing through his banister on his second-story balcony? and that little bit of why is enough to stop the swipe and then make it interesting throughout and they finish the video they get a payoff oh wow he put in an auto belay system so he can fall and jump from the second story of his house and land softly on the first floor and then that ends up 300 million views that's the formula that's everything so i'm not thinking creatively about the content until I've already looked at the data.

16:49And each video informs me data-wise for the next video. So right now I'm the most viewed spray paint artist on the internet. I don't say that to brag. I say it because I'm blown away by it myself. Never thought of myself as an artist. And yet here we are. And what it was is the first time I played with some spray paint art, I've always had it as a hobby and it's always been something interesting to me. But the first time I did it as content, 50 million views. And I could see in the data how people were interacting with the content. Basically, watch time. And they were watching the process because they wanted to see the end product.

17:29Well, this is a game changer. If that means that you can catch their attention at the beginning with something interesting, and they want to see the end product of that piece of art, well, that means they're going to finish the video. And that means, well, I'm now a spray paint artist because I want to do the content that people want to finish. So it totally revolutionized everything I do just by looking at the data of one video, the very first piece of art I did, which was Muhammad Ali. And, you know, epic, wicked. It's hanging in my house now just because of sentimental value. But then everything changed after that.

18:07Now I want to hold your feet to the fire because I think Fire Nation gets a little overwhelmed with all these different options and opportunities. So if you had to choose just one social media platform, what would it be and why? Great question. Oh man, it is holding my feet to the fire. If the platforms are listening, I love all of you. Man, we got some stuff to fix on TikTok. TikTok, really bad on TikTok right now. There's no rights. They're going to pay you out for the content only if they think that you own it. And there's no way to prove that you own it. There's so much stolen content on TikTok.

18:45Oh, it's rough. And the pay is low. Facebook, man, they don't care about your content. They care about your page. They want you to have a very healthy page with no strikes against you, no flags. And you can get a flag for anything. So on Facebook, oh, that's rough. You're really not living or dying by how good your content is. You're living or dying by how good their platform is and your page. YouTube, this is where there's a pure algorithm. It's pure in that if it's good, it's going to go. If it's not good, it's not going anywhere. And that's it. So you can build an audience fast using YouTube Shorts.

19:28And it's my favorite right now. All of my time is going into YouTube. And I was a Facebook guy for four years, ignoring every other platform. So now if I had to choose, gun to my head, it's a YouTube world. Fire Nation, I can tell you, two or three years ago, if you had told me, hey, you're going to be watching YouTube every single day, John, I would say, listen, I'm not one of those people. I know people that just go on and watch YouTube, and they just kind of flow into the next one and the next one. But that's just not me. Well, guess what? that is me. I've turned into that person and I love it.

20:03Are you a shorts feed guy or a long form guy? I'm more of a longer form guy, but you know, I'm, I think my sweet spot, by the way, is probably like seven to 14 minutes. Like I like videos in that range. If it gets to like 20 to 30, I have a hard time committing to that length. But if I can see a title that looks like it's something that I'm really into, like, for instance, like I love history. So if it's like, you know, how Roman forts were constructed, you know, back in the day, like, and it's like nine minutes, I'm watching that. If it's 26 minutes, I'm probably not watching it just because frankly, like I've been taught that people that can't keep content on YouTube to like 15 minutes and under have a lot of fluff in there.

20:51And that's why. So check this out. You want some insider? Yeah, I love that. So I just had dinner a couple weeks ago with the head of YouTube creators. Her name's Kim. She's awesome. And she goes, hey, I'll give you a little heads up on the algorithm. We're preferring videos now that are upwards of 26. And I'm like, wow, okay. Why is that? Well, check this out. Half of viewers on YouTube right now are watching on their television set. That blew my mind. And that's a totally different game than I'm playing right now. And if you've got tips on how to make my one minute banger videos 26 minutes long, I'm listening because I don't know right now.

21:32But that's just what the algorithm is doing, because these platforms, they want to take over Netflix. That's been their goal for a decade. They go, yeah, yeah, OK, we've got the social media thing, but also we want to win on the side of content. We want our own Breaking Bad on our platforms, and that's what they want. So they're trying to motivate creators to create that thing. I hope we're able to do it. I would love to take down old Hollywood. Well, listen, I'll tell you, I pretty much have my cup of coffee next to me every morning as I'm sipping on it. So that's one of my things that I am definitely doing is watching some YouTube.

22:13I haven't graduated to the television yet. That's still a Netflix for me. but I could see that happening at some point in the future. And I want to, Justin, end with a bang. So what would you say for us, for Fire Nation, of everything we talked about here today is the one key takeaway you want to make sure our listeners really understand? Be prolific. That's my goal. I got a really nice compliment from a journalist the other day, and he was like, you know, it's kind of prolific what you're doing. And I was like, nailed it. Yes. Because all of my idols have a mountain of material that they're still piling onto.

22:50And I was looking at it, you know, chicken or egg, cart or horse. What's first? Are these guys great because they have a mountain of content or are they, when you become, when you get a mountain of content, you end up being great. I don't know which it is, but I'm going to err on the side of just creating as much as possible, putting it every everything out there. And here's what I found. I have found that the muscle of creativity becomes super buff just when you go for that style of releasing content, meaning the I have a longer list of creative ideas now than ever before. I'm so stoked with what's coming next in terms of the stuff I get to produce.

23:35but that is only that way because my brain just understands, oh, this is easy, this is fun, and we can do whatever we want. There's no consequences. Just put it up there. And I'll end with this. This is the best thing that I told fellow creators getting into it because it was told to me. If it's bad, then you don't need to be embarrassed by that content because no one will see it. It's bad. How arrogant are we to assume that our bad video that we'd be embarrassed by would be seen by anybody? The algorithm will take care of it, and nobody will see it. And if it's good, then it's going to go far.

24:16And if it's good and you're still embarrassed by it, I will pay you. And that's the win-win-win of social media is, hey, even if it's cringe content and you're embarrassed by it, If it's good, it'll make you money. So I say that just to loosen up creators and to be like, hey, set your ego at the door. I took my ego out back and I shot him because I was like, you have no place in this job. Just look at the data. Just look at what people are doing. Get it up there. Make the money. Well, Fire Nation, you know me. I'm all about putting in the reps. I mean, Justin is episode 4523. So I think I know a little bit about putting in the reps.

25:02I love that to create great work. And Justin, if Fire Nation wants to connect with you, give us a call to action for our listeners today. That's right. You want to see the good news stuff that's coming up every day. Subscribe on YouTube. Definitely check that shorts feed out. But if you want to reach me, I mean, my website's justinflam.com. And these emails come right to me. Uh, I'm a small enough operation. It's me and a dude and my wife. That's the, it's a crazy thing, uh, that we're at this level of success with just a handful of us making this stuff, but, uh, that's what it is. Reach out, say, Hey, and I'm happy to share in some of the hundreds of millions of views.

25:44Happy to. Fire Nation, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. And you've been hanging out with JF and JLD today. So keep up that heat. And for links to everything we talked about, visit eofire.com, type Justin in the search bar, and the show notes page will pop right up. And Justin, thank you for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your value with Fire Nation. For that, we salute you and we will catch you on the flip side. Thanks, buddy. Hey, Fire Nation, a huge thank you to Justin and our sponsors for sponsoring today's episode. And Fire Nation, what can 7 ,000 of the world's most successful entrepreneurs teach you?

26:19How about how to achieve financial freedom and fulfillment? My first traditionally published book, The Common Path to Uncommon Success is a revolutionary 17-step roadmap that will lead you to the lifestyle you've been dreaming about. This book took me 10 years of accumulating the genius of the world's top entrepreneurs. And you can get it all in one place when you visit UncommonSuccessBook.com. I will catch you there or on the flippity flip side. The Next Wave, your chief AI officer hosted by Matt Wolf and Nathan Lance is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.

26:54Matt and Nathan are leading AI creators in your guiding light in the AI and technology frontier. AI technology is transforming the way we do business and the media landscape is fragmented. The Next Wave strives to be the leading podcast on AI technology and how you can apply it to growing your business. Listen to The Next Wave wherever you get your podcasts.