How to Balance Empathy and Accountability with Maria Ross

0:02Who's ready to rock today, Fire Nation? JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire. brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals with great shows like The Ops Authority. Today, we'll be breaking down how to balance empathy and accountability. To drop these value bombs, I brought to Maria Ross in the EO Fire Studios. Maria is a speaker, facilitator, author, strategist, and empathy advocate who believes cashflow, creativity, and compassion are not mutually exclusive. She's spent decades helping forward-thinking leaders, teams, and brands connect and engage through empathy to accelerate growth.

0:37In today's Foundation, we'll talk about the word empathy in the business context, how it can benefit your business and your brands, how to bring it more into our marketing, and the five pillars of empathetic leadership, and oh, so much more. And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Maria and our sponsors. DTC Pod, hosted by Ramon Berrios and Blaine Bolas, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. DTC Pod is a podcast about all things direct to consumer. Ramon and Blaine cover everything from starting, growing, and optimizing e-commerce stores in DTC brands.

1:14If you're interested in the stories behind your favorite consumer brands, this podcast is for you. One recent episode on how the best brands are built is a must listen. Listen to DTC Pod wherever you get your podcasts. The internet's best converting checkout is here. Did you know that Shopify is up to 36 % better compared to other leading commerce platforms? Sign up for a$1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash onfire, all lowercase. Go to shopify.com slash onfire now to take your business to new heights.

1:51Maria, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. Hi, Fire Nation. I am so excited to be back again after 10 years. And I believe that something that makes us successful, I'm a little biased, but I really believe in taking a step back and building your story before you go guns blazing on tactics, right? I see this from a marketing perspective all the time. Get your story straight first. Who are you? What are you about? What are your values? Who do you serve? Why does it matter? and that will help you have more ease and flow in doing all the things to promote and market and make your business thrive.

2:36Fire Nation, we're talking to Maria for now the first time in 10 years when she was last on the show on, believe it or not, July 4th, 2014. So a pretty special day over 10 years ago now. And we're talking today about balancing empathy and accountability. And Maria, you're a successful brand strategist and you've evolved from that into an empathy speaker and advocate. Tell us that story. Tell us that evolution. Yeah, I had to take my own medicine and go through my own rebranding process. But yeah, for years I was in corporate, in marketing, in management consulting, and I started my own business in 2008 and have had a very successful brand strategy practice.

3:23And I began to notice this theme of my clients, even my most left brain clients, my tech clients, saying they wanted their brands to be seen as empathetic. And I was like, hmm, that's really interesting. Do you actually know what that means? Or what does that mean to you? And I saw it kind of over the course of the years, this desire to really create a connection and engage with people and not just treat them as numbers or as assets, but understand that their customers are complex human beings. And they have goals and they have fears and they have values. Combined with the fact that I had a son who was like two weeks old when we spoke last time, but he's 10 now.

4:04And around the time of 2016, I was really disheartened by the models of leadership that I saw in the world. They were very cutthroat, very xenophobic, very exclusionary. And I thought, why am I bothering to teach my son about empathy and compassion and collaboration if these are the models? so I did what I do and I dug into the research I said there had to be brands and leaders who were winning with empathy and I was delighted to find all the research that showed there is a business case to be made for being an empathetic leader for building an empathetic culture and for creating an empathetic brand so I wrote the empathy edge harnessing the value of compassion as an engine for success and it came out in the fall of 2019 and it hit a nerve and then the pandemic hit and it really hit a nerve.

4:53And so that book was really successful for me and took me down this path of not only doing brand storytelling work with my clients, but doing leadership development, doing keynotes, doing ERG talks to help people strengthen their empathy and leverage it as a strategic advantage for radical success. And now my next book is coming out this fall, The Empathy Dilemma, How Successful Leaders Balance Performance, People, and Personal boundaries because this book is a direct outcropping of the work that I've been doing over the last five years. So I pivoted my brand. I still do brand storytelling work.

5:31I still offer a course for entrepreneurs to build their brand story with empathy, but I'm mostly focused on training and leadership development and helping make the world more empathetic by starting at work. Now, this is entrepreneurs on fire. Our listeners are entrepreneurs. They are small business owners. They are solopreneurs. They are side hustlers. So we do hear this word empathy from time to time. I feel like it's becoming more in the mainstream. But let's talk about it specifically in the business context. I love this question because people think it has no place in business or that it's a quote unquote soft skill.

6:07But if we look at empathy through the lens of being able to see, understand, and where appropriate feel another person's perspective and further use that information to take an action of compassion. That's where it applies no matter what size your business is, whether you're talking about your personal life or your business life, because it's about trying to understand someone else's context and using that information to either communicate in a certain way or deliver a certain message or make a decision. You don't have to necessarily change your decision. You can still make a tough business decision, but you can do it with empathy by really listening and really getting curious about other people's points of view and maybe building that and factoring that into your decision or factoring that into the next right step you will take.

6:59So as an example, if you're dealing with an angry customer, which no matter what size business we have, we have dealt with that. It's about taking the time to listen to them and be open and be present and not get fearful or defensive, really hear them. And even if you can't solve their exact problem, if they know they've been seen and heard and understood, there is research that shows that 97 % of customers say that empathy is the most important element of their customer experience with any brand, even if their problem wasn't necessarily quote unquote solved. If they feel like that company or that entrepreneur or that customer service rep really heard them and tried to solve their problem and connected with them as a human being, they have a much better perspective on the brand itself and will stay a loyal customer.

7:51I know that we all think that we can be altruistic on some levels, sometimes at least. But at the end of the day, I know my listeners, Fire Nation, they're going to want to know the specific benefit that empathy can bring to their business, they can bring to their brand. So let's talk specifically about the benefits and maybe give a real life case study or example or two. Yeah. So the good news is there's so many vectors of how this benefits your business. We probably don't even have time to go through them all, but there is ample research data, case studies that show that empathetic leaders enjoy more loyalty.

8:28They enjoy more engagement from their staff. They are able to create an inclusive environment, empathetic cultures breed more innovation. When you are not afraid to be yourself at work and take risks, you offer more innovation to the company that you work for, and you give that company a leading edge. They are able to increase engagement. They're able to increase innovation, retention. And then from a brand perspective, this is something that Gen Z and millennials especially, and now even the other generations coming in, they're demanding empathy from the brands they do business with. We live in a transparent world and they know not only how you're treating customers, but how are you treating your employees and your partners?

9:10You cannot hide. And so they want to support those companies doing right by their community, by their employees, by the planet with their dollars. And they are making purchase decisions based on how a company acts and if a company is truly, genuinely empathetic. So, you know, Look at real life examples like REI, the sporting goods cooperative company. They started many years ago the Opt Outside campaign and they closed on Black Friday, which is, as we all know, the biggest shopping day of the year. They closed not to do a PR stunt. They did it because they were listening to their employees who said there is nothing worse than working on Black Friday.

9:52And if our mission is to get people outside, so they were very aligned on mission, what would happen if we closed on Black Friday? And then they all laughed in an employee meeting and their leader said, what if we did? And they found to their surprise, it wasn't a hard sell. And they have only reaped rewards from that action. They have increased sales. They have increased PR exposure. They have increased the number of members in their cooperative. They have attracted all kinds of quality of employees from that action, and they still do it today. So, you know, they challenged the status quo, not again because of some boardroom decision to appear empathetic, but they genuinely listened to their employees and got themselves back to their mission and said, we think this is what our people will want.

10:44And they did. Fire Nation, I hope you're understanding the power of empathy in so many different scenarios. Maybe you're thinking about that scenario that Maria was just talking about and saying, how can I apply something like that to my business? Where would that make sense in my interactions? We're going to be talking about the five pillars of empathetic leadership when we get back from thinking our sponsors. Marketers have never been spread so thin. Trust me, I feel it to. Between creating content, launching campaigns, generating leads, nurturing your prospects, and more, you barely have a second to breathe, let alone do your best marketing.

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12:36Shopify's got you covered. And if you're ready for the internet's best converting checkouts, know that Shopify is up to 36 % better compared to other leading commerce platforms. Plus, they've got Shopify magic, your AI-powered all-star that helps you sell more with less effort. Need help? Shopify's award-winning support is there for you every step of the way. Sign up for a$1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash onfire, all lowercase. Go to shopify.com slash onfire now to take your business to new heights no matter what stage you're in. Shopify.com slash onfire. Maria, we're back. And as I teased before the break, I want to dive into the five pillars of empathetic leadership.

13:22Take it away. Yeah. So the reason I developed these pillars in the second empathy book was because the first book was written for the skeptics as the ROI of empathy and what can it do? And also, what are the actionable practices I can take as a leader, as a culture, as a brand to create that connection and connect and engage with the people who matter most? What I landed on was people saying, okay, great, we're on board and we want to be an empathetic leader. We want to be empathetic brands, but it's hard. So through hundreds of interviews on my own podcast, The Empathy Edge, additional years of research, I found five common traits or five common threads to leaders being both effective and empathetic at the same time.

14:05And I really want to talk about this both and philosophy because we don't have to choose. It's not about being empathetic or profitable. It's not about being empathetic or high-performing. You can be both if you have a firm foundation, and that's what these five pillars are all about. So the five pillars are self-awareness, self-care, clarity, decisiveness, and joy. And there are strategies that go with each of them and then actionable tactics that you can employ to try to shore up that foundation for yourself and better balance empathy with accountability. Now, I know you do a deep dive in your book on these five pillars.

14:46Let's just go through these five very concisely, very briefly, just to give Fire Nation a taste. For sure. So self-awareness, again, empathy has to start with you. You have to get your own house in order before you can make space in your brain to be able to take on another person's point of you without defensiveness or fear. So self-awareness looks like understanding your triggers, acknowledging your weaknesses, and taking inventory of your strengths so you can see how people can compliment you. It's about really putting ego aside and saying, I don't know everything and I'm not good at everything.

15:23I can't possibly be. I'm human. And when you open yourself up and you let go of that ego, that's where you make space to be more empathetic and to be a more collaborative leader and partner. And so one of the ways you can do that is there are a variety of self-assessment tools out there. There's Myers-Briggs, there's the Enneagram, there's DISC, there's Clifton StrengthsFinders. And I highly encourage you, whether you're an entrepreneur with no employees or you are a leader of a company with a thousand people, make self-assessment a priority. I interviewed someone in the book from a large tech company And their CEO has everyone, every executive in the company take the Enneagram so that they can understand each other and really be able to relate to each other during conflict or be able to understand how people process things differently.

16:15So self-awareness is the key to being a more empathetic leader. Now, when it comes to self-care, we're not talking about manis and petties and massages. Self-care is about doing something that energizes you and gets your creative juices flowing. Make the time to do that. We've all heard that old adage of, you know, you charge up your phone, right? Why wouldn't you charge up yourself? But if you are depleted, if you are, you know, on your last bar, there's no way you're going to be angry, you're going to be touchy, you're going to be, you know, edgy, and no idea is going to seem like a good idea.

16:49So make sure that you're taking time to recharge. And if you're a leader, modeling that for your people, that self-care is important. Self-care can be meditation and yoga and massage, but it can also be something active, training for a marathon, playing piano, doing something that lights you up and ignites different parts of your brain so you can be more effective at interacting with people and problem solving. Now, the next two are really outward, and I think these are so important. Clarity and decisiveness. and they kind of go hand in hand. So with a lack of clarity, people will jump to the worst case scenario.

17:29If they don't know what's going on, if they don't know what's expected of them, if they don't know what their next step should be, then that's where you see entitlement crop up. That's where you see confusion crop up. And that's where you see quiet quitting and disengagement crop up. I don't understand why I'm doing this, why it matters, or exactly what outcomes we're looking to achieve. So one of the most important things you can do is to make sure you and your employees, if you have them, but also partners, that you're aligned on mission and being very specific on this is how we do business around here.

18:03Even if it seems obvious, right? We all have different definitions of professionalism. We all have different definitions of effective communication. Write it down into a, you know, a code of conduct or a rules of engagement, and it will eradicate entitlement. It'll eradicate confusion. It's something you can always go back to if someone is underperforming. You can say, remember what you committed to. And many organizations and companies and businesses don't do that. We think that's like the luxury stuff, but you need to do it no matter how big your company. And with that goes decisiveness. Don't leave people hanging.

18:40Don't avoid tough conversations because they're uncomfortable. people in the absence of information and the absence of feedback will continue to behave in ways that are detrimental to your business so make sure that you solicit different points of view so that you can see risks and opportunities you might have missed but make swift decisions after you get everyone's point of view and then explain why the decision was made create a culture of why explain I factored in all your perspectives here's the decision we made here's why we made it please continue to bring us your ideas and your perspectives but right now we've got to disagree but commit and get people again on the same mission and then finally my favorite one that I think you and fire nation will really enjoy is joy we have to create some levity in our work even when the work is hard.

19:34So how can you create a culture of joy? It doesn't mean you have to be a comedian. It doesn't mean you have to, you know, force team bonding that everyone hates. It's just about giving people space and vehicles to create some levity. You know, if you use, for example, if you use Slack to communicate with your partners and your customers and your employees, maybe have a Slack channel devoted to what did you have for lunch today? Or what's your dream vacation? So Or how did your weekend go? Get to know people on a personal level and open up and unlock that trust. Because then even when the work is hard, people will go to the moon for you.

20:13And you can create an environment where it's like, look, we know this sucks right now. We know there's a crisis. We know there's a deadline. But everyone trusts each other and we can pitch in because we've created this culture of joy. And that will serve you. One exec I spoke to said, you know, when I create this culture of lightness and levity and people can relax, then they know if I'm asking them to work really hard for a certain specific situation, they know they can trust me because they know that I wouldn't be asking unless it was important. Fire Nation, we've been talking today about balancing empathy and accountability.

20:52Maria, you've dropped value bomb after value bomb. What would you say is the one thing of everything we talked about that you would really want to make sure Fire Nation walked away with? I want folks to understand, again, that balance of both and empathy and accountability. You can still make tough decisions. You can still have a conversation with someone about their poor performance. You can, you know, let go of a difficult client if you have to. But you can do it with empathy. You can do it by seeing, hearing, and understanding them, about listening to their point of view, about understanding where they're coming from, and acknowledging their thoughts and feelings.

21:30It doesn't mean that you have to change the decision. It just means you're having a different interaction of how can I best help you through this decision? How can I support you? because the longer you leave, like I said, conflict open or uncomfortable conversations, the more you leave things to fester. You're not fostering an environment of accountability. You're fostering an environment of avoidance and that will never serve your company well or impact your bottom line in a positive way. Fire Nation, powerful words on a powerful topic. And Marie, if Fire Nation wanted to connect with you, wanted to learn more directly from you, what is your call to action for our listeners today?

22:12I would love for them to check out my core site, red-slice.com. And also from a brand perspective, I'm offering a free masterclass on a four-step framework to create a captivating brand story based on empathy that attracts your right fit clients. It's absolutely free and it's full of juicy stuff. Even if you don't go a step further with me, please take it to benefit your business. and that can be found at bit.ly slash four-step brand story. Well, I'm sure we'll have the link in the show notes. You better believe it because Fire Nation, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with.

22:47You've been hanging out with MR and JLD today. So keep up that heat. For links to everything we talked about, what Maria just mentioned and more, visit eofire.com. Just type Maria in the search bar. The show notes page will pop right up. It's all there. Maria, thank you for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your value with Fire Nation. For that, we salute you and we will catch you on the flip side. Hey, Fire Nation, a huge thank you to our sponsors and Maria for sponsoring today's episode today and Fire Nation. And Fire Nation, if you want to accomplish your number one goal in just 100 days, the Freedom Journal is for you.

23:25Visit thefreedomjournal.com. You can learn everything there and I will catch you there or on the flippity flip side. DTC Pod, hosted by Ramon Berrios and Blaine Bolas, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. DTC Pod is a podcast about all things direct to consumer. Ramon and Blaine cover everything from starting, growing, and optimizing e-commerce stores and DTC brands. If you're interested in the stories behind your favorite consumer brands, this podcast is for you. One recent episode on how the best brands are built is a must-listen.

24:00Listen to DTC Pod wherever you get your podcasts. The internet's best converting checkout is here. Did you know that Shopify is up to 36 % better compared to other leading commerce platforms? Sign up for a$1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash onfire, all lowercase. Go to shopify.com slash onfire now to take your business to new heights.

24:32Thank you.