How to Get Your First Million Podcast Downloads in a Hard to Reach Market with Maria Calanchini: An EOFire Classic from 2022

0:01Light that spark fire nation JLD here and welcome to entrepreneurs on fire brought to you by high level, the all-in-one sales and marketing platform. On today's classic episode, we'll be breaking down how to get your first million podcast downloads in a hard-to-reach market. To drop these vibe bombs, I brought Maria Calaccini into EO Fire Studios. Maria is a digital entrepreneur. She took a 100-year-old public domain property and turned it into an original children's podcast called Goop Tales with over 1 million downloads. And in today's episode, we talk about how there are no rules for being successful, how the best way to engage with your audience is to think of who your listeners are and what will resonate with them and oh, so much more.

0:41And a big thank you for sparsing today's episode goes to Maria and our sponsors. Are you ready for the ultimate all-in-one platform for entrepreneurs, marketers, coaches, and agencies? Build funnels, automate follow-ups, manage clients, and even white label your own software. Say hello to our featured partner, High Level, and visit highlevelfire.com to start your free trial today. Fire Nation, success isn't a solo journey. It's about who you surround yourself with. That's why I built the Freedom Circle, a powerful community of entrepreneurs ready to support, inspire, and share the ideas that move you forward.

1:23Visit freedom-circle.com to learn more. Maria, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with? Hello, Fire Nation. I am so excited to be here. And what is something I believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with? It's basically that there are no rules when it comes to being successful. I think there's some basic business principles that should apply, and there's no one-size-fits-all rules. And let me just give you an example and explain that. because I have been to so many business seminars, workshops, et cetera, et cetera.

2:08And I'd always hear what worked for the presenter, be it getting up at 5 a.m. in the morning or journaling that night, three things I could have done better or whatever it was. And it was almost like you got the sense that if you mimicked that person and their methods, that you would have success. And it doesn't work like that. We're all unique individuals. And what I found writing stories, for example, is I write kids' stories. And I'm not a trained author. I didn't go get a master's in creative writing. And so when I first started out, I took an online class on how to write stories for kids.

2:49And it said, okay, you have to outline the story like this. There has to be the arc here. There has to be this happening in character development. There has to be A, B, C, D. And I got very caught up in that and it completely stifled my creativity because that's not the way I write. I write as if I'm living the story when I'm writing it. So I never know what's going to happen until the very end of the story and I've written it. And if I had gotten caught up in everybody else's methodology of doing things, I never would have been able to authentically put out creative content that's resonating with my audience.

3:26So there's no rules. And that's kind of the story of my life too, Fire Nation. I mean, for me, if I had just followed the masses and done a once a week podcast or listened to all the mentors and the influencers out there that said nobody will listen to a daily podcast, then I never would have started or I never would have got traction with the same old, same old. And that's why I love the topic we're talking about here today is getting your first million podcast downloads in a hard to reach market. So one thing that I think you did fantastically, Maria, is you created original IP from a public domain property.

4:01Tell us this story. How do you accomplish this? Goop Tales, which is my podcast, it is based off of a book that was written to teach kids manners back in 1904 by Gillette Burgess. And he created these characters called the Goops, each one named after something naughty that a child does. And then he wrote poems about them. And my mother read those stories to us when we were younger. And then when I got older, I loved the Goops. I loved the whole idea of these quirky names and the way that the artwork looked. And I thought, I want to do something with this. I want to bring it to life. I want to create a business around it.

4:41But I didn't know if I could because of the whole, I didn't create these characters. So I ended up going down this whole rabbit hole on public domain properties. And I hired a trademark lawyer. And basically what I found out is that because these were created in 1904, they were now in the public domain. And kind of just a general rule for that is that the copyright usually lasts for the length of a person's life and then an additional 70 years, depending upon how it's been maintained or not. So I was free to then take these characters and extrapolate them on extrapolate on them and create my own content.

5:24So I wanted to create my own IP based on the characters. So what I did is I took the poems and I took the artwork and then I wrote these original stories around them. And they're now my stories, but I started with something in the public domain. and there's so much, you know, when people say they don't know what to do or they don't have ideas in the public domain, new things come out every day or every year, I should say it's by the year, I believe. But, you know, Robin Hood, Dracula, Sherlock Holmes, Winnie the Pooh, just, I think it's this year. It just became, yeah, it became available in the public domain and it's, you know, Disney's done a lot with that.

6:06And so the one thing I will say is, you know, So, and Disney's done Cinderella and Snow White and all of that. And those are all public domain properties. The only thing is, is if you want to take something like Winnie the Pooh, which you can do and put on, now you can do it and put on, you know, let's say you want to sell posters or whatever it is, merchandise, just, you know, make sure you do your due diligence, especially if it's a property that Disney has created their own IP around because they're fierce with that. But I also read that the original Mickey, like the steamroller Mickey Mouse, is coming up in the public domain in 2024.

6:46So there's a lot out there when you Google it and you go there and you can get Jane Austen, you can get William Shakespeare, and you can do whatever you want with those things. And I think a lot of people don't realize that. And I love this concept because a lot of people that I talk to are like, well, John, I mean, I just can never create original great content, which, you know, first off is a limiting belief that they have. and they probably have to work through. But on the other hand, you can all say to these people like, listen, there's already so much original great content that's out there by fantastically well-known brands and writers.

7:16And they've already built up know, like, and trust over the years in these public domains. And you can take that original IP and leverage it into an amazing platform just like you did with Goop Tales. But even when you do this, it's still so hard to get engagements from the listeners, from the consumer of your content? Like even when you're putting great content out there and it's awesome and people are jiving with it and they love it and they know it and they like it and they trust it, still getting that engagement is tough. So how can we best get our audience to engage and even in some ways co-create our podcast?

7:55My audience very much engages and they do co-create. And the first thing I'm gonna say is you have to not give up on this and you have to be creative. So I discovered this accidentally. So my audience is, in general, they are between four and nine years old, give or take a couple years older sometimes, but four and nine years old. So when I first started Gooptales, I had this fantastic idea in my mind that I was going to get kids inspired by nature in the same way I was inspired by nature when I was little. So I would walk home from school back in the days when kids were left on their own and I could walk for like a half hour and I'd walk through the woods and I would see all these giant trees and I would imagine like elves and gnomes and like I was going to live in the bottom of a tree.

8:47And so I've always been very inspired by nature. So I thought, okay, I want to get kids today inspired by this amazing world around them. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to write these stories around the goops and I'm going to write the first half of the story and get the listener really fired up in their imagination going. And then I'm going to ask them to write the second half of the story. Well, it did not work. So what happened is I put out this content. If you go listen to some of the first podcasts and I would always ask, I wrote the full story and I told the full story, but I gave away the first half and I asked the kids to write the second half.

9:30Well, that was not a good way to try to get them engaged. I just didn't know it at the time. They were too young and they just wanted to be completely entertained by the story. They didn't want to think up the ending. Their imaginations were like in high gear, just listening. So, that was the first thing I tried and it didn't work, but I did not give up. then the next thing that I tried is I said I was putting pictures real life photos of where the goops traveled to like let's say one of them went to Paris and I would put a real life photo of say Notre Dame and then I would make a kind of transparent little hidden goop in that photo almost like where in the world is Waldo or something and I would then ask the kids on the podcast, I'd say, hey, if you go to my website, GoopTales, you can go and find a little hidden goop and tell me where it is in this photo.

10:25Well, that did not work either. And so as soon as those two things didn't work, like I really had to pay attention to that. And I had to think, okay, what can I do? I have to really think more about who my listener is, their age, and what is going to resonate with them more than thinking, what are my fantastical ideas of how this should be? and what happened is there were 52 original goops and I when I was getting towards the end of the you know in the 50s of writing these stories I said on the podcast I said don't worry I'm not going to stop at 52 I'm going to you know keep going but I'm going to make the goops go on adventures together so I'll just combine them and then somebody wrote me in a name and they said I have an idea for a goop name so you don't have to combine them going on the next adventure you can do a new name and I thought oh okay that's a really good idea so episode 53 with goop tales is a pair of goop twins called punch them and kick them who two boys who like to punch and kick things and I that was not something that the original author made up and it wasn't something I made up and it was a young listener that made that up and he wanted me to write the story about it, and he wanted dinosaurs to interact with them.

11:42So, I made them go back to the Mesozoic, I never know if I'm saying that right, to the Mesozoic era and interact with dinosaurs. And what I realized from that is the kids love, their imaginations love to think about other places in the world, what inspires them, what a goop name is. So, after I announced that podcast and I gave credit to the young listener who had thought of Punch Him and Kick Him, the names started flying in so then kids wrote I mean they still do I've probably got almost up to a thousand ideas now so they would write me in and say I want a goop named forgetta and she always forgets things and I want her to carry a little purse where she keeps a reminder and I want her to wear this kind of hat and I want her to go to uh red the red sea or something like that and so I thought, aha.

12:33So they loved to think up goop names based on naughty habits. They loved to think of unique places. A lot of times they'll tell me like a museum in their hometown that they've been to and say, can you make this goop go to this aquarium or something that's in their hometown? And they love to think of what a goop would carry and what they'd wear. And then they want me to write the story. So now I not only call out whoever gave the inspiration for the story, because now we're on episode 112 just came out. So ever since 52, all the rest are original goops that the kids have written or kids have thought of the names.

13:13And they've told me where they have to go, what they have to wear. And now that I say that on the podcast, oh my gosh, I just every day, I get new names that they write in and new voicemails from kids. They want to now co-create with me. And they're so clear in their head where this scoop's going to go and what it's going to do. So I wouldn't have ever gotten there if I hadn't kept trying because my first couple ideas didn't work. But I feel like there's always a way to get your listener engaged. But you really have to get out of your own head, get out of your own way. And think of it from the listener's perspective.

13:49Like what is exciting to them? And it was not exciting to kids to write the second half of the story, but it was very exciting for them to think up Goop names. Wow. Fire Nation. I mean, this is a really ingenuitive, exciting, and really genuine way to figure out how your audience can get involved with stuff that you're creating. And I think that's a huge thing for you to think about is saying, hey, with how Maria is doing this with Goop Tales, how can I do this with my topic, with my content? How can I get my audience involved? And I actually did a whole podcast called Daily Fire back in the day where I would have my audience go to a page, leave a question on audio, and then I would play that audio question and then I would give the answer.

14:33And I would have a great time engaging my audience in that way. And, of course, now they're listening to make sure that they don't miss themselves potentially asking a question on the show and getting, of course, the answer that they're looking for to their question. And other people are enjoying it because they probably have similar questions, et cetera. So you can think of all these different ways in whatever niche you're in to really get creative. And we have some really important things around this topic when we get back from thanking our sponsors. It's January and that means new goals for your business.

15:03And because I know you actually want to hit those goals, it's time to stop messing around and start knowing exactly what's happening with your money. It's simple. Without visibility and control over your cash flow, decisions get delayed, bills pile up, and opportunities slip through the cracks. That's why you need Intuit QuickBooks. QuickBooks Money Tools has powerful money management tools built right into the platform so your money and your books stay in sync all in one place. Imagine having accurate books that update automatically. With QuickBooks Money Tools, you can get paid faster, paid bills smarter, and when tax season rolls around, you'll be organized, confident, and ready.

15:37Honestly, it's peace of mind knowing your bills are paid on time and your cash flow is working for you, not against you. Transform your cash flow and your business this year. Check out QuickBooks Money Tools today. Learn more at quickbooks.com slash money. Again, that's quickbooks.com slash money. Terms apply. Money movement services are provided by Intuit Payments, Inc., licensed as a money transmitter by the New York State Department of Financial Services. Okay, let's talk about a platform that's completely changing how entrepreneurs are running their business, and they are also our featured partner, High Level.

16:10If you're an entrepreneur, coach, agency, or course creator looking to grow faster and smarter, HighLevel is the all-in-one platform that replaces your entire tech stack. Seriously, think ClickFunnels, Calendly, MailChimp, Kajabi, and even your CRM all rolled up into one powerful white label solution. You can build funnels, send SMS and email campaigns, schedule appointments, manage pipelines, run memberships, and even launch your own branded mobile app. It's drag and drop simple, incredibly customizable, and built for serious growth. My favorite part, you can resell high level under your own brand.

16:43That means recurring revenue, loyal clients in total control. So whether you're tired of duct taping tools together or ready to start offering high value services with ease, high level is your unfair advantage. On top of it all, their support team is second to none and has your back every step of the way. Seriously, every question that pops up, they will have your answer waiting. And if you visit my special partnership link, you'll get a free trial. So visit highlevelfire.com to start your free trial and see why thousands of businesses are switching. That's highlevelfire.com where marketing, sales, and automation finally come together.

17:20High level, join the revolution. Maria, we're back and there are going to be some times when things just slow down, when things plateau. It's just businesses go through these cycles. It always happens. Can you share the importance of finding both support and community when this happens? Yes, because I went through that. So when I first started out, which was about five years ago, I got really excited to start the podcast and you were a big inspiration to me and I joined your pod, or I'm still in it, your Podcasters Paradise community. And I would see what other people were doing and I listened to your advice and I got all my, I think it was my first five podcasts lined up.

18:04And I thought I was so on top of it. And I was going to put out a new children's story every week. And I had these first five lined up. And so I did that. And it was nice to have those first five to drip feed. And then it wasn't too long. I mean, it was several months later where it was hard. It was really hard because I was writing original content. I had to voice it. I had to sound edit it. And I thought, I cannot keep up this pace. And I'm not, and it was at the very, it was more in the beginning of this, you know, way before I had a million downloads. And it, it just, I, I was very, I was discouraged.

18:41Like I couldn't keep going in that way. And so not only did my consistency of putting out the podcasts drop off, I knew I still wanted to do it, but the consistency was dropping off. I was just not feeling inspired. So what happened is I was in, and still am in, but you had a different base then, I think, or a different format. I was in Podcaster's Paradise, and what I would see was other people that were podcasting, and they would put up, oh, I just got my first podcast sponsor, or oh, I just got my first 5 ,000 downloads, or whatever it was. They were even just sometimes very small wins, but they were something.

19:22And that was all I needed to see to say, what am I doing? Like, why am I being so sluggish on this? You know, everybody goes through a journey and you're not going to get overnight success and instant downloads and look at these other people, they're still going. And it makes me really think about the importance of having that community that you can connect with because most of us, I mean, I know for myself as an entrepreneur and a podcaster, in my everyday life, you know, it can be a little bit lonely. Like you're sitting at home, I am anyways, creating content. And so I don't have, and a lot of my friends are not in this world at all.

20:02And they don't necessarily want to talk about it when we go out. So I had to find a community where other people could relate to this and I could get inspired by them. And I mean, that's one of the many beauties of the internet, you can find a community on just about anything. So I had to find a community of like minded people. And it wasn't even that I was going into the community and saying, oh, I've had a really tough day, I need inspiration to keep going, da da da da da. Like I didn't do that. That's just not necessarily how I operate. But instead, I would go into the community and I would see other people just posting their little wins or their little challenges or big challenges.

20:43And I just, I don't know, there's something about being around like minded people, it just would bring me back into that headspace. And I would say, you know what, you can do this. And I kind of liken it to, it's almost like if you're living with or around somebody that's super healthy, right? They eat healthy and they work out and all that kind of stuff. Just automatically, your health game just up levels. Well, it's the same with anything in life. So for me, I needed to be around people that were just doing it. And that's a community. So the importance of community, I just think it cannot be, it sounds so basic.

21:20but I'm not talking about, you know, the community of your friends that don't understand. I'm talking about the community of people that are going for something parallel, but similar. I just, that I think is so key in anything that you want to achieve in life to keep you going. Cause yep, we're all going to hit those slow and rough spots. So key fire nation. It is literally the most important factor for so many people. And that's exactly why nine years ago we did launch podcasters paradise because I knew that the pod fade was real. I mean, I felt it. Kate's felt it. Everybody who's been in this industry has felt it.

21:56And if you don't have people around you saying, listen, you're going through this, it's normal, but just keep your nose to the grindstone or take a break or whatever it might be, but you will get your mojo back. You will get your excitement back. You know, there will be an uptick at some point going forward where you're gaining that momentum that you need. One thing that I always do stress to people that come to me for advice when it comes to their business, their podcast, their life, is that you've got to niche your flipping face off. I mean, for me, I never would have won if I just launched a podcast or even a business podcast or even a business podcast interviewing entrepreneurs.

22:34I had to get to a place where nobody else was, which was a daily podcast interviewing the world's most successful entrepreneurs. So the harder to reach the market, the more opportunity there is. I like to say the higher the barrier, the lower the competition. If you really think about that, Fire Nation, that'll click. Can you share how to both step into and stick out in a hard to reach market? I found out mine for me was very hard to reach at first. So the first two things I would say, and I think these apply to anything. First of all, your content has to be great. and you have to be authentically yourself.

23:12And I know there's so much stuff out there now, from social media to Instagrammers, to podcasters, to TV shows, whatever it is, there's so much content out there. And I see a lot of people out there in the market seeing something that's popular or a host that's popular and they try to mimic them. And you can get inspiration from them, but ultimately the mimicking doesn't work. It never works and it won't keep you going. It might work for a quick jolt at the beginning, but it won't keep you going and you'll grow tired of it. So the first two things are that you have to be authentically yourself and have great content because when you're authentically yourself, whoever your audience is, which is not going to be everybody, your audience is going to relate to the authentic you.

23:59That's what's going to resonate and get them to find you and keep listening to you. So I decided from the very beginning that I was going to let my audience decide if they liked the stories. And if they weren't into these stories, then maybe I had to rethink what I was doing. And so what I and my audience by my audience, I mean, the kids that are between four and nine years old. So it was a little bit difficult to originally get to them because the parents are the gatekeepers of what their kids are listening to or watching. But I knew that if kids started listening to my podcast and I could get any kind of reaction from them that was consistent in a positive way that I had something.

24:44And that did happen. It was slower at the beginning because I had to get through the parents at first. So I had to think, okay, you know, I did all the optimization for the podcast and that you're supposed to do in the hashtags and the this and the that and put it out there and put it in kids and family. And I'm going up against, you know, in kids and family like the Disneys or the Harry Potters. And I'm like, how are people going to find these? But you just got to trust that if your content's good, that somebody's going to find it because I knew that there were parents that were looking for other things.

25:16And so the parents eventually started to find it. And then what I thought about was, okay, I need to maybe change some of the messaging at the beginning of my podcast or change some of the messaging in my podcast description to grab the parents' attention. Because it's very, you know, four-year-olds, five-year-olds, they're not going, I mean, hopefully not. They're not going on, you know, Instagram or they're not going on iTunes trying to search for the latest podcast. Their parents are doing it. So I had to really, once again, it's going back and thinking about, okay, who am I really speaking to?

25:51And for me, I had to get through the first layer. So then I had to change up my writing and start to talk to parents in a way that was saying, okay, do you want to get your kids off the screen, but still have their imaginations, in fact, actively engaged, have them learn about new cultures in the world and have them also learn about character traits and have discussion prompts for you and your kids. So I had to change my writing a little bit in the description for that. So the parents would be like, huh, that's something I could tune into. And it will also give me the opportunity to not have to read them the bedtime story, but still have them have something really great and have their imaginations engaged.

26:30So I started to do that. And that really worked because then I was speaking to the parents who were the gatekeepers. And then once the kids listened to the content and they liked it, then the parents would, you know, I literally get emails that are like, oh, my God, you know, we've gone on so many car trips and my kid is obsessed with gook tales. I feel like I know you. We've listened to each story five times, that kind of thing. and so it was it was I was able to get through the parents and then I thought okay I got through to the parents but I want to you know now these kids are writing me in telling me how they want to how they want me to create a story or create a goop or whatever it is but there's got to be a way that I can also engage with them a little bit more personally and I and I thought okay you know a five-year-old's not going to hop online and write me an email.