How to Survive and Thrive When Things Get Tough with Susan Weinschenk

0:01Boom! Shake the room, Fire Nation! JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire! are brought to you by High Level, the all-in-one sales and marketing platform. Today, we'll be breaking down how to survive and thrive when things get tough. To drop these value bombs, I am brought to Susan W. into EO Fire Studios. Susan has a PhD in psychology and is the chief behavioral scientist and CEO at The Team W, Inc., and author of several books. Today, we'll talk about how to identify if we should keep going or throw in the towel when times get tough. Also, the three most important things to plan for before the times do get tough, how to know when to pivot and what to pivot to, and oh so much more.

0:40And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Susan and our sponsors. Did you know Shopify is the commerce platform behind 10 % of all e-commerce in the US? If you want to see less cars being abandoned, it's time for you to head over to Shopify. Sign up for your$1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com slash on fire. Are you ready for the ultimate all-in-one platform for entrepreneurs, marketers, coaches, and agencies? Build funnels, automate follow-ups, manage clients, and even white label your own software. Say hello to our featured partner, High Level, and visit highlevelfire.com to start your free trial today.

1:27Susan, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with? This is such an interesting question. I had so many of them. So I have a bunch, but I'm just going to pick one. Okay. Which is you don't have to have all the answers up front. I think there's this idea that you have to have everything figured out. Um, and, and you always have to know exactly what you're doing and you don't, you don't, You're going to figure it out in some ways as you go along. And you've got to be able to be nimble and adjust. So I think sometimes people won't start because they don't think they know everything they should know.

2:14But you don't have to know everything. I love that message and those words. It reminds me of the MLK quote, which is, you don't have to see the whole staircase to take the first step. Ooh, see, that's much better said than the way I said it. But you know, it's the same message. It's about taking action, Fire Nation. And that's why we're talking about how to survive and thrive when things get tough, because they will. I mean, Susan, let's be honest with the audience. Tough times are going to hit us hard. It's not a matter of if, it's when. So what, in your opinion, are the three most important things to plan for before these tough times hit?

2:53I've been in business for myself for a very long time. gone through several, several tough times. So here's my ideas. First of all, not always easy to do, but you have to have at least six months and, and I think a year's worth of income stashed in savings at all times. So, and, and it's hard to do, believe me, it's hard to do, but, but, But, you know, I finally did it. And it makes all the difference because then when tough times hit, you don't panic and you don't make bad or rash decisions because you have some time to figure it out. And you know you do. And I also think even before the tough times hit, just knowing that you have that money going, that you can keep this business going for six months or a year, even if everything falls apart, you can keep going.

3:57Just knowing that you make better decisions even when the tough times aren't here yet. I think that's just so critical. And you may not be able to get there right away, but as quickly as you can get that, the better off you are. So that's one. Number two, knowledge is power. I think you have to have your metrics in place about what is tough times. What is a disaster for you? When do you need to make you have to know here's how much money we need to keep going. here's a situation we need to keep going and and and have metrics and measurements for that and know at all times what so how are we how is our cash flow what does our income look like coming in the next couple of months you you have to be on top of that all the time and and if you are then when the tough times hit you're much better off and then the last thing is i think you should decide ahead of time what are your two to three options when tough times hit like you said they are going to happen so you need to to have a plan ahead of time that tells you okay when you know when tough times hit and here's the definition for us of tough times that's your metrics then here's two or three things we are going to do right away or we could do and i think if you do those three things, then when tough times hit, you're, you know, it's like, okay, here we are.

5:32You know, what's that phrase batten down the hatches, whatever the heck that means. Well, what that means actually, it's, it's an old Navy term. You know, when the storm was coming in, you had these hatches that you just batten them down to make the waterproof underneath, you know, below deck, so to speak. So you bat down the hatches. So even though there might be a storm raging outside, you are nice, cozy and dry inside. And you got to plan for that and be ready to go. And I think when you do those things and you are ready, I think the fear of tough times affects us and we make bad decisions out of fear, even if the tough times aren't here yet.

6:14I've seen that to be the case over and over again. If people can just kind of have the things in place they need to, to make it through the tough times coming out on the other side, it's, it's rosy. The sun is shining and there's all a lot of things that Susan said that I loved. You know, I would pick out number two, which is knowledge is power just to kind of reiterate knowledge is power. And that's what you're doing right now. Fire nation, you're consuming this content. You're listening to people like Susan, you are gaining knowledge and knowledge is power. But we have to be realistic at the same time, Susan.

6:47We have to realize that, you know, sometimes we're gonna be going down a path that is a dead end, that's not going to turn around. So how do we identify if we should keep going? Because, you know, we might be three feet from gold or to throw in the towel. That is hard. But I think if you've done your homework and you have those metrics, then you'll know. like it's like the the if this is what our numbers look like okay whatever those numbers are in terms of how long we can keep our employees on how much what our cash flow situation is what our you know debt repayment is doesn't matter whatever the metrics are that are critical for you and and when you you you need to have that point at which if if this if we hit this point in our metrics and this point in this metric and this point in this metric, that's it.

7:40I think one of the worst things I've seen, and I've seen it many times, and I've gone through it personally, is the not knowing. Like, are we there? Is this the disaster or not? And that's just so psychologically painful. And again, you make bad decisions when you're in that state of not knowing. So if you just have those decisions ahead of time, and then when you get there, you know, then you can take action. Now, one thing that I've recognized in my life is that tough times do make us tougher. I mean, I did a 13-month tour of duty in Iraq as a tank commander in charge of four tanks, 16 men. And, you know, it was brutal.

8:28It was tough. Every day felt like such a challenge. but honestly it made everything easier from that point forward after I got back because I had this new perspective of what tough was really like and I was like man this might have felt tough before I did that but now that I've been through that like this doesn't feel so challenging because I know what I'm capable of so what are your thoughts on that phrase I have not gone through those tough times, as you described. And, and, you know, I think that's absolutely courageous, what you went through just being in that situation. But I think, you know, we all go through tough times, and, and in our lives in various ways.

9:11And I think you, you've got to, you know, I remember this one point where I was going through a tough time with my business, and I was at that point of deciding, you know, do I stop or not? And I had a friend say to me, okay, so let's take it through. Let's say this really does fall apart. Um, what, what about it? What happens then? And, you know, again, that fear was just stopping me from thinking. And so when I, when I, when he said that, I went, okay, okay, what would I do? You know, what would I do? And I actually said to him, I would pick myself up and just start all over again, you know?

9:55And he said, well, there you go. You know, so that, that took the, the fear away from it, you know, and, and there's a phrase I tell myself all the time. And I especially tell myself when I go through tough times, which is you are a resourceful person with resources. Like whatever happens and stuff will happen, you'll figure it out. You'll figure it out. You're smart. You can figure this out. And just having that kind of confidence in yourself, which is, I think sometimes not easy to have, you know, that's meant so much to me. There's so many powerful things about what we're talking about here today, Fire Nation, they're going to help you, you know, both in the challenging times and in the good times, and then in preparing for those challenging times.

10:46And there's actually a phrase that I love, which is this too shall pass. And I really believe that's a phrase for all times. When you're in the dumps and you're just not feeling motivated and things aren't working out, this too shall pass. But on the flip side, when you're crushing it and things are just, you know, just working for you on every single level, it's important to know that this too shall pass. That's not going to last forever. So don't start spending your money like it will because it won't. It will pass. And then again, if you feel like you're stuck in the middle, that's going to pass too.

11:19That plateau will pass as well. And we have a lot more to talk about around this topic when we get back from thanking our sponsors. Shopping online has become so easy, which is great, especially around the holidays. Thanks to Shopify's purple Shop Pay button, making purchases online is quick and easy. no more entering your details over and over again. And Shopify doesn't just make it easy to buy, it makes it easy to start a business too, no matter your experience. Shopify is the commerce platform behind 10 % of all e-commerce in the US from household names like Mattel and Gymshark to brands just getting started.

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13:47High level, join the revolution. Susan, we're back and we've already talked a little bit about this before the break, but I want to dive deeper into just the reality of what it means to be an entrepreneur in the course that we're on. I mean, when should we stay at the course? Like we're on this course, we're kind of chugging forward, we're doing X, Y, and Z. And when should we pivot? How do we identify that? The first thing I do want to warn people about with all of this, and this applies to everything we've talked about so far, but applies to this question. You've got to be honest with yourself.

14:21I think the thing to really be careful of is being dishonest with yourself. And, and, you know, you know, you know, that things are not going well. And hopefully you have those metrics we talked about. And you're looking at the metrics and you know, this is it, right? This is this is the pivot point. And yet you don't want to face it. And you're not honest with yourself. That's the, that's the biggest danger. So I think in terms of, you know, how do you decide, um, uh, what to pivot to? I think there's a lot of ways to think about pivoting. Um, and, and there's kind of two different lenses that I look at it from.

15:06One is to think about it from small, medium, and large, you know, like what size pivot do I need to make? Do, can, can I make just a small pivot and then see if that works? Do I have the time? And are we not so desperate that, you know, I could try a small pivot? Or have we gone past that? And I now need to do something real, you know, it's got to be a large pivot. So I think that's one lens to look at. And then the other lens is what is that pivot? What are the different kinds of pivots you can make? And I, For instance, do we need to pivot the audience, the customers, who is our target market?

15:48Do we need to pivot the services we're offering and change something about what we're providing? Do we need to pivot on how we're marketing and selling? Like where is the pivot? That's one lens. And the other lens is that small, medium, and large. And then I would just say about pivoting, you really need to test. You got to test, you know, don't, don't, if possible, don't just like make a huge pivot, you know, test it out, run a test and see if that pivot's going to work and how you might need to refine it. Now, again, you have touched upon this, but even let's go deeper and let's just kind of say, hey, we've done, you know, the process that you recommended and we have decided to pivot.

16:36How do we decide what to pivot to? Like, what specifically should we be doing if we have made that decision that we are going to adjust, we are going to pivot? I remember one time I said to my accountant, I'm not a good business person. and, you know, I'm terrible at business. I mean, I have a PhD in psychology, right? I don't have a business degree. And he said to me, you're not a terrible business person. You're just a small business person. And this is what small business is like. So, you know, my advice is kind of coming from that point of view. But I think that you can decide. I think, again, if you have those metrics, you can, you know, we run numbers, we run simulations.

17:28You know, if we made a change and instead of doing, you know, this kind of consulting, we switched to this kind of consulting. And it would mean that, you know, maybe we're doing less consulting, but we're doing larger amounts. Like how realistic is that? How long will that take us to get going? Like we just run simulations and see what the, and you know, it's not going to be 100 % accurate, right? Because we're guessing. But we try and just work that through. What kind of pivot could we do and what would the results be on the metrics if it were successful? There's another wonderful calculation.

18:15Now, I'm very blessed. I have a partner in my business who actually happens to be my son, which is a riot. Because if you had told me he was going to be my partner, you know, when he was in high school, I would have thought you were crazy. But he graduated college. He graduated law school. And after law school, I said, so what are you going to do now? And he produced a spreadsheet and graphs showing why I should bring him on as a full partner in the business. And my jaw dropped. I just was amazed. And he's he's been wonderful. And he is very much a business person. So he can do he can run all these, you know, numbers and run these simulations.

19:01But he also has this wonderful formula, which has to do with thinking about the level of risk. you know when you're when you're when you're doing a pivot there are some pivots you can do that are not very risky right they don't work big deal what's the worst could go wrong there's some pivots that you can do that are that are okay if this doesn't work you know that's we we invested a lot of time and money and however sometimes those are the ones that have the biggest possible gain, right? So he, uh, in the, when we have looked at these pivots and we have, he and I have in our business, he's been with me now for 10 years.

19:47Um, we look at it that way. It's like, well, okay, we have this small pivot. It might give us a small gain. It doesn't have a lot of risk, but given where we are in our business right now, is that the kind of pivot that makes the most sense or should we go for the bigger risk but bigger possible gain? And those are the kinds of thinking we do and the kinds of calculations we make before we make our decision. Susan, I don't want to go too in-depth here, but I just want you to share with us one thing that we should not do when tough times come. Can I give you three? Okay. All right. Don't panic, but you will.

20:28But try not to. That's one. The second thing is don't wait too long to take action. Don't ignore it, right? I said that before. Don't lie to yourself. Like take action when you know you need to. And the third thing is you want to talk to people. There's a tendency to avoid talking to people. Like you don't want to talk about it. And at least I'm a kind of person, I have a hard time asking for help. And when I remember one time when I was going through a really tough time and I did not want to talk to my accountant, who, of course, knew I was having a hard time. That was my accountant. But I didn't want to.

21:12This is before my son joined me and did all my accounting. But I didn't want to talk to him about it. And that was a mistake because when I finally said, can I talk to you? And I talked him through, you know, my worries. He had this really simple solution with the with the debt and the bank that I didn't even think of. And and that that bought me a lot of time and it bought me just a lot of panic relief by by doing his solution. You know, he said, just go talk to your bank and ask him to do that. And I was like, wow. And I almost didn't talk to him about it. So don't avoid people and don't avoid asking for help.

21:56Go ask for help. Fire Nation, wise words from a person who's been there, done that, and is now sharing her experience with us. And Susan, on that note, what is the one takeaway of all the things we talked about here today that you would want us to really remember from our conversation? to believe in yourself and to say, you know, I'm a resourceful person. I have resources. I can figure this out. And if Fire Nation's connecting with the words that you're saying, they want to learn more, what's your call to action for our listeners today? The best way to reach me is, I would say, just email me, susan at theteamw.com.

22:41And also, The team w.com is, is my website. So you can always go there, uh, have a blog and, and we have a podcast called human tech. So that's, that's a good way to reach me, but really just email me, just reach out and email me. Well, fire nation, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. You've been hanging out with S dubs and JLD today. So keep up that heat. And for links to everything we talked about, visit eofire.com. Just type Susan in the search bar and the show notes page will pop right up. Susan, thank you for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your value with Fire Nation.

23:14For that, we salute you and we'll catch you on the flip side. Thanks, John. Hey, Fire Nation, a huge thank you to our sponsors and Susan for sponsoring today's episode and Fire Nation. Are you an entrepreneur on fire who is looking to share your amazing message with the world? If yes, we are now accepting applications for entrepreneurs on fire. To learn more about becoming a guest, visit eofire.com slash guest. I'll catch you there or on the flip side. The best converting checkout on the planet, that's Shopify. If you want to see less cars being abandoned, it's time for you to head over to Shopify.

23:52Sign up for your$1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com slash on fire. Are you ready for the ultimate all-in-one platform for entrepreneurs, marketers, coaches, and agencies? build funnels, automate follow-ups, manage clients, and even white label your own software, say hello to our featured partner, High Level, and visit highlevelfire.com to start your free trial today.