How to Write a Book While Working Full-Time with Lauren Maffeo: An EOFire Classic from 2023

0:02John Lee Dumas:Who's ready to rock today, Fire Nation? JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire, brought to you by High Level, the all-in-one sales and marketing platform. On today's classic episode, we'll be breaking down how to write a book while working full-time. To drive these value bombs, I brought to Lauren Maffeo in the EO Fire studios. Lauren is an award-winning writer and designer whose first book, Designing Data Governance from the Ground Up, is in beta and debuted at number one in the publisher's catalog. And today we talk about being honest about what the book is and how you want it to be received and how you can't do the fun stuff in tech without the data and oh, so much more.

0:37John Lee Dumas:And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Lauren and our sponsors. Fire Nation, 50 days will fly right on by. The only question is, will you have something to show for it? I created a free YouTube series called 50 Days to Something, a step-by-step path to build a real product, service, or offer in just 50 focused days. Start today for free at eofire.com slash YouTube. If you are building a real business, you need real infrastructure. High Level gives you website hosting, funnels, email marketing, automation, calendar booking, payments, and course hosting all on one platform, plus award-winning 24-7 support.

1:15John Lee Dumas:Get a 30-day free trial and my full bonus stack that includes a 15-minute private call with me and much more at highlevelfire.com, highlevelfire.com. Lauren, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. Hey, everyone. Thank you so much for listening to this interview today. It's great to be here. And I think something that I've come to realize fairly recently is this idea that you should never, ever give up or ever quit. I know, especially for folks who are athletes or people who are entrepreneurs, there is this ethos that was very popular for many years about the grinding and never, ever giving up no matter how hopeless things looked.

2:06And I do think that there's some value in that. Nobody would ever finish anything hard if it was purely about the grind and about giving in. But having said that, I do think now that there is value in knowing when you have to cut back or even drop out of something. I heard on Glennon Doyle's podcast earlier this year, the concept of quitting and how it can actually be valuable and how the most successful people know when to step back from something so that they can devote energy to something else in their life that's more important. And I found, for instance, that when I was writing this book, I had to balance writing the book with working full time.

2:48And that meant that other areas of my life, like training for long distance running races had to get put on the back burner. And I ended up signing up for a few things this year that I had to pull out of because I ended up not having the time to train. And so that's not to say that I wasn't exercising while writing this book. I was, I was still walking, jogging, all of that stuff. But I had to put that side of life training for distance races on the back burner because writing the book was more important in the short term. And I had to drop out of a few things that I overcommitted to. And that was disappointing, but I don't think it was a bad thing.

3:25John Lee Dumas:And Fire Nation, one thing that I'm a big believer in is the sunk cost fallacy of just because you started down a path or you're doing something doesn't mean, you need to keep doing that thing because you put time, energy, effort, money in the past into that thing. Every day is a fresh day. Every day is a new opportunity. Take it. And we're talking about how to write a book while working full time. And time, Lauren, is such a struggle for most human beings, if not all. So how in the world did you find the time to write a book in one year while you were working full time? Yeah, it's a great question.

4:00I have two friends that each released books this year, and they are fantastic books. They're very different from my own. One is a biography of George Floyd, and one is a personal memoir that my other acquaintance wrote. And they both got their own dedicated time to write those books. So one friend is a reporter for the Washington Post, and he got book leave to write his book. My other friend was on parental leave while writing her manuscript. And so they had that dedicated time to devote to their books. And I found that writing a book while working full time takes a different kind of discipline, because you have to give your extra hours to writing the book, you have to be really consistent about setting aside time during each day to get a little bit done.

4:49So what I would do is I would consistently set aside time in the mornings and on weekends to outline and write the book. And I developed a really interesting habit when I was doing this. I would not consider myself a early bird by any means. And I really worried when I would hear authors say, oh, get up at 5am or 6am and just write for two hours before you log on to your job. That's how you get it done. And I remember thinking, I'm not sure I can do that. I'm not really sharp in the mornings. So I don't know how this is going to work. And what ended up happening while I was writing this book was I developed this habit a few times a week of waking up unprompted around 445.

5:31So very early and very early for me. And I would get up, I would make coffee, I would go to my desk and I would write for about two hours and then go back to bed for a bit and go to sleep until my first work meeting of the day later that morning. I am very fortunate to be able to work remotely. And so I was able to use those two hours, I would have spent commuting to write the book instead. And so I got into that habit a few days a week of writing from about 445 to 7, 730, and then getting a little extra sleep before starting the workday, which kind of allowed for some separation between the two jobs.

6:11I also set soft goals to draft a chapter per month and write the equivalent of 200 words per day. But that didn't always happen. There were days when I would sit down to write and nothing would come, or I realized that I needed to do more research on a chapter before actually writing. The good news is that ultimately I would make up for those unproductive spells by writing a bit more. Usually on weekends, I found that setting aside one day each weekend to really bang out anywhere from 1 ,000 to 2 ,000 words was productive. And it also allowed me to feel like I was still having a weekend because I was able to set aside Saturday to write the book without distractions.

6:51But then I could have Sunday to reconnect with people in my life and really have a dedicated day off. And I also found that setting aside one weekend day was really helpful because it didn't feel like I was juggling my job with writing this book. I was able to allow that devoted brain space.

7:11John Lee Dumas:Fire Nation, there's a lot that I love about what Lauren just shared about how she accomplished this amazing goal. One of the things was when she said soft goals, you know, her 200 words per day. I mean, when you look at a book, a book's like, wow, this is hundreds and thousands and thousands of tens of thousands of words. But if you break it down per day, like now it starts to seem manageable. And one chapter a month, that seems manageable. I actually call those sprint goals. However you call them, they work because you break them up and they're manageable. And writing this book changed both your desire to write as well as your writing style, Lauren.

7:46John Lee Dumas:Tell us more about those things. That's very true. I don't know about you because I know that you've written books as well. But writing your first book in many ways made me feel like I had never written a word in my life at times. And that was a very strange feeling because I have a master's degree. So I wrote a master's dissertation. I started my career as a journalist. And so I wrote many, many articles, both as a journalist and then eventually when I became a research analyst. And writing this book taught me very quickly. It's one thing to write an article. It's one thing to write even a dissertation, but it's very different to write a book with a consistent narrative that flows between chapters and each chapter builds upon each other.

8:32My book is not a novel. It's meant to be a very practical hands-on guide to data governance for business leaders and data practitioners. But I still needed each chapter to flow. I needed the information in each chapter to build on itself throughout the book. And creating that consistency was tough. But ultimately, I think writing this book made my writing style more succinct and direct. I very quickly got told off by my editor anytime that I would try to use the passive voice. So I have a much more active voice in my writing now. And I've carried that over. I not only notice the passive voice in writing much more often, but I'm very intentional about trying to be more direct and succinct in my language.

9:18And I did notice that even when I was doing final edits for this book, I would look for opportunities to cut words. And this book is relatively short. It's 100 pages and six chapters, and that's by design because data governance can be an unwieldy topic, and I intentionally wanted to make it digestible, especially for folks who might be new to the topic. But even at that relatively short length, I was looking for opportunities to say what I needed to say in as few words as possible, as simply as possible, in order to make the topic more accessible to a wider audience.

9:53John Lee Dumas:I love all of this. And Fire Nation, it just kind of goes back to putting in the wraps. Like you don't even know how good you're going to become to something until you wake up every day and do that thing. Now, there were some easy things and there were some hard things about writing the book. What was both the easiest and the hardest aspects of writing your book? Yep. So two things stuck out to me as being especially tough. The first was that I published this book through the Pragmatic Programmers, which is a publisher that is devoted to a technical audience. They publish a lot of really specific books on topics ranging from Rust to Golang to programming in Python.

10:34And they actually have their authors write our manuscripts in Markdown, which is a lightweight markup language. If listeners have ever used GitHub to push code to an open source project, Markdown is quite similar. You have a local version of your book draft on your laptop. And in order to push edits to it, you have to commit changes to the main draft in Markdown. And I had never used Markdown in my life. I do all my writing in Google Docs, which auto-updates in real time, doesn't require any HTML coding. So getting comfortable with Markdown as a first-time user was a real challenge. It was even harder than writing the book itself.

11:13They had a dedicated editor on call who I could speak to if I had any questions about it. And I utilized her quite a bit when I was first writing this book because it's like math in the sense that once you know how to do the equations, once you know the formula, you don't even think about it. You just can go into mark down and do what you need to do. But that learning curve, if you're not used to using the tool is very steep, especially when you're a writer and you're used to using very specific tools in a particular way. It was a big mindset shift. The other tough part of writing this book was taking a subject that can be admittedly dry and making it engaging.

11:56I work in technology as a service designer. I work with data scientists and technical architects. And even to that audience. Data governance isn't always the sexiest topic and even practitioners don't always want to do it because a lot of people think that it impedes their ability to innovate, to launch new models to production. Governance is kind of seen as a stoppage point to that. So I wrote this book with the goal to make it as practical as possible and to be a compass that can help readers do their jobs better. I say in the preface of the book that I want readers to be able to get on a plane in LA with it and have a plan to build data governance when they land in New York.

12:38And in order to do that, I had to be honest about what my book is and how I want it to be received. And I think that involves being honest about the fact that your book isn't for everyone. It allows you to define your audience and what you want them to gain from the book. But it also makes you honest about the fact that this is not a book for anyone and everyone. There are going to be people who are not interested or don't like it. And that's part of the writing and publishing process.

13:07John Lee Dumas:Fire Nation, you know how big I am about defining your audience, about identifying your avatar. I mean, these are such key things when you're doing anything in this world. And as you can tell, especially when you're doing the thing, which is writing a book. And we have so much more to talk about on this topic when we get back from thinking our sponsors. Fire Nation, if you're growing fast, your backend can't be stuck in slow motion, bills flying in, approvals getting bottlenecked, vendors chasing updates, that kind of busy work drains your energy and steals your focus. That's where Intuit QuickBooks BillPay steps in.

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14:51John Lee Dumas:No duct tape, no juggling five platforms, just one clean system for your business. And their award-winning 24-7 support has your back when you need it most. When you sign up at highlevelfire.com, you also get my exclusive bonus stack, a 30-day free trial, a private 15-minute call with me, JLD, access to my weekly live office hours, a digital copy of my book, The Common Path to Uncommon Success, my 50 Days to Something Execution Roadmap, and more. Visit highlevelfire.com and start building your something today. Lauren, we're back and there are a lot of listeners right now, Fire Nation, who are working full time.

15:30John Lee Dumas:Is it realistic for them to write a book? I really appreciate you asking this question because I don't see much honest discussion about what it takes to be an author today. The truth is that writing a book today takes two kinds of privilege. It takes the privilege of time to be able to write for free, and it takes the privilege of a support system who can help you write for free. I'm very lucky that I had the time beyond my full-time job to write this book because most people lack the time and money to do that. And even myself, if I had been in a different stage of life, if I had had young kids, I am not sure that I would have had the fortune of writing this book and giving it the time that it deserved.

16:13I wrote this book when I didn't have family obligations, so I could be selfish and use my non-work hours to write this book as both a passion project and an opportunity to grow my career and my knowledge that would assist in my career. I won't always have that much free time, and most people don't have that time to spare now. Most people outside of a full-time role have caregiving duties, either for parents or children. They have maybe volunteering commitments that they have to fulfill. Now, it's true that you make time for what you value. So this is not to say that a full-time employee with a family can't write a book as well.

16:52But if that's the case, then at bare minimum, you need a social network who can give you the time and space to write. If you're married, you need a very supportive spouse who is going to understand that you will have to turn down social commitments. You will have to wake up early. You will not always be available to do things together because writing a book is very demanding. And the process of writing is pretty lonely in the sense that you really need that solitude to concentrate. And you need a partner who understands that. That's doubly true if you have a family together. So you absolutely can do it.

17:28You make time for what you value, but you do need that time to write and you need people who are going to support the sacrifice that you are willing to make and you need people who are going to rally around you and really support you as you fulfill that goal.

17:44John Lee Dumas:Now, we do love talking about hindsight because hey, who doesn't wanna be a Monday morning quarterback? Who doesn't wanna look back and see the opportunities that were there and learn from those of course? So what do you wish you knew about book writing prior to doing it? It would have been great to know up front how fulfilling and worthwhile the process would feel once it was done because the actual book writing process is lonely and hard at times. There was a lot of self-doubt and imposter syndrome when I was writing this book. Even if I did write a sentence I was proud of, I could very easily swing backwards and think, what am I doing the next hour?

18:23I often asked myself when I was writing this draft who I thought I was, why I thought I had the confidence to pitch this book at all. I had these thoughts, even though I was confident in what I was writing, I would have a moment of clarity. And then three hours later in the kitchen while I was making dinner, worry if I was quote unquote, right. And so I was constantly doubting myself. And that's on top of the writer's block I mentioned. I mean, there were many mornings when I sat down in earnest, trying to write, trying to use my two hours wisely, and nothing was coming. I think every writer is familiar with that, because writing is not linear, and you won't always have what you need in your head at the right time.

19:09But the tipping point for me was when I got my book drafts technical reviews back. My reviewers were really helpful giving advice to improve the book draft, but they also validated the book idea and told me how much they gained from it. They told me they were going to share it with their colleagues. And I wrote the book for people like them. So hearing that affirmation meant so much to me. And hearing their feedback really validated the fact that this book deserves to exist. There were definitely things that I needed to improve on, and I was able to do that with their advice. But just the fact that they validated the idea and reinforced how important it was, was really special.

19:53And now that the draft is done, I'm so pleased that I did it. And so I would say to anybody who's interested in writing a book, it's going to be a real challenge, but it's an incredibly fulfilling feeling once you're done. There's an old quote, I hate writing, I love having written. And that was very true for me in this case.

20:14John Lee Dumas:I want to talk about the one thing. If the readers would walk away from your book remembering one thing, what would that be? I hope readers of this book remember that AI is just data and that governing your data is going to give you a big advantage over your competitors. I have spent a lot of my career working with clients who had millions of data points in their possession, but no real way to use them in clear, consistent ways. And creating a data-driven culture in your business where colleagues across the business feel confident using data and advocating for it, defining the data that they own, will give you a competitive advantage in the long run.

20:58And the other thing that on that note that I'd like people to remember is that you can't do the fun stuff in tech without data and without good quality data. That really is the backbone of every strong company today. That's how companies like Google got to be the behemoths that they are, because they knew how to use data in really innovative ways that were clear, consistent and well governed. that's their secret sauce. And that is something that's available to readers as well if they're willing to invest the time and effort into data governance that work.

21:33John Lee Dumas:How can Fire Nation connect with you? If they really resonate with your message here, how can they connect with you, learn more from you? What is your call to action for Fire Nation? I would love to hear from folks who want to learn more about writing a book full-time or are interested in the subject matter of the book. So you can find me on Twitter, LinkedIn, and Instagram under my full name, Lauren Maffeo. You can also go to pragprog.com and search for my book, Designing Data Governance from the Ground Up. It is currently available in beta across all e-readers, tablets, and a print version of the book will be coming in late 2022, early 2023.

22:17So again, if you go to pragprog.com and search for Designing Data Governance from the ground up under their title section, you will find my book and can pre-order.

22:27John Lee Dumas:Fire Nation will have that link in the show notes, but I want you to know that you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. And you've been hanging out with LM and JLD today. So keep up that heat. If you have any direct questions for Lauren, find this episode on the podcast app, Podopolo. Post a comment, post a question. And Lauren, thank you for sharing your truth, your knowledge with Fire Nation today. For that, we salute you and we'll catch you on the flip side. Thanks for having me. Hey, Fire Nation, a huge thank you to our sponsors and Lauren for sponsoring today's episode and successful entrepreneurs accomplish big goals.

23:04John Lee Dumas:That's why I created the Freedom Journal to guide you in accomplishing your number one goal in 100 days. And we're talking step by step, day by day. Visit thefreedomjournal.com. I'll catch you there. We're on the flip side. Fire Nation, 50 days will fly right on by. The only question is, will you have something to show for it? I created a free YouTube series called 50 Days to Something, a step-by-step path to build a real product, service, or offer in just 50 focused days. Start today for free at eofire.com slash YouTube. If you are building a real business, you need real infrastructure. High Level gives you website hosting, funnels, email marketing, automation, calendar booking, payments, and course hosting all on one platform, plus award-winning 24-7 support.

23:51John Lee Dumas:Get a 30-day free trial and my full bonus stack that includes a 15-minute private call with me and much more at highlevelfire.com. Highlevelfire.com.