Innovating Within a Stagnant Industry with Jay Dillon: An EOFire Classic from 2021

0:01Boom! Shake the room, Fire Nation. JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire. Brought to you by the HubSpot. podcast network, the audio destination for business professionals with great shows like The Product Boss. Today, we're pulling a classic episode from the archives, and we'll be breaking down how to innovate within a stagnant industry. To drop these value bonds, I brought Jay Dillon into EO Fire Studios. Jay is a co-founder of Yardbird. Yardbird brings new solutions to a stagnant$5 billion plus industry with his first outdoor furniture brand that places quality, sustainability and affordability at its core fire nation we'll be talking about going and doing it come up with the best business idea you can and go for it understand the complexities of working with family members in a business and one of the nice things about having many balls in the air or having a lot of things going so you don't have a ton of time to sit around and think about ideas you just have to make decisions execute and we talk about a lot more fire nation thank you to jay and our sponsors hustle and flowchart hosted by joe fear is brought to you by the hubspot podcast network, the audio destination for business professionals.

1:06Join Joe as he discusses systems, mindset tweaks, reframes, and strategies to help you build a business that gives you freedom and fuel for your life. A recent episode on using AI for effortless content creation is a must listen. Listen to Hustle and Flowchart wherever you get your podcasts. Ever thought about giving a TEDx talk? It's one of the most powerful ways to share your message with the world. And four-time TEDx speaker Taylor Conroy from Thought Leader can help you get there. Visit thought-leader.com slash fire to join Taylor's free training where he teaches you how to land a TEDx talk and spread your message to millions.

1:41Jay, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. Hey, Fire Nation. I'm so excited to be here. I've listened to the podcast many times and And I'm flattered that you asked me to come on. One of the things that I think is often overlooked and people may disagree with is that while you need a strong business idea, I think it's less and less about the idea than it is about the action or the execution of it. You know, everybody knows there's a lot of ideas circulating around. Most of them are pretty good. but the overwhelming majority of those ideas will never come to fruition by the people that think of them.

2:28Fire Nation, I've heard literally a million amazing ideas and I've seen hundreds and hundreds of amazing executions of those ideas. So that's the reality. It's not that hard to have a great idea but it's very few people who execute upon those ideas in a manner that's gonna bring them to the level of success that they truly desire. So focus on the execution, Fire Nation. And as I mentioned in the intro, we're going to be talking about innovating within a stagnant industry. And let's be honest, Yardbird did kind of enter into a stagnant industry of furniture and textile and all that jazz. So talk to us, Jay, about the initial steps that you took to build Yardbird.

3:13It's very cliche, but the reason I got into it is that I was, I saw the need myself. I was looking for outdoor furniture. And the more I dug into the high end of the outdoor furniture industry, the more excited I got about the opportunity. And, you know, everybody says, you know, a bunch of industries are stagnant or antiquated. And we're we believe that we're in kind of one of the mother of all stagnant old industries. What did those like initial steps look like? Like, like, OK, this is stagnant. I'm not seeing what I want. the competition out here looks like they're pretty lame and pathetic.

3:51What was the first few steps? Like, what did that actually look like? Yeah. So as I started diving more and more into the industry, I learned that the majority of sales that occur on the high end outdoor furniture is these 3000 specialty retailers across the United States. So if you live in Denver, you know, there's a ski, a large ski, ski chain that sells outdoor furniture. If you live in, you know, Portland, Maine, Portland, Oregon, you know that there is a large billiards company that sells outdoor furniture. All of those guys are going to the Chicago merchandise once or twice a year and buying from actual middlemen that are doubling the price and then they're further doubling the price.

4:36And so that's why outdoor furniture costs$5 ,000. You know, people love to talk about the Warby Parker model and cutting out the middleman. I actually think the glasses industry is pretty efficient. Luxottica manufactures their own and they have their own retail stores. They just make monster margins. And Warby Parker came in with the same model and just took less margins. Outdoor furniture industry specifically was a huge opportunity and continues to be a huge opportunity for us. And so the steps we took is after learning more and more about this, I convinced my, I was living in New York City, convinced my then girlfriend, now wife to move over to Asia with me where 95 % of outdoor furniture is sourced and, um, uh, moved there for three and a half years, really became a student of the manufacturing of high-end outdoor furniture.

5:25And I would spend seven months a year there. And then back in the United States, testing the model, uh, in the spring and summer as it's a highly seasonal business. And, um, before we knew it, we had, uh, we had yard bird. Did you have an initial contact when you went to Asia or were you literally just I'm flying in and I'm going to start wandering around and start looking, maybe walking into these big manufacturing companies? Like what did that look like? I worked in medical device sales when we came up with the idea, and I took a week off to go to a trade show in Asia. And I went to visit some factories.

5:59And one of the factories I visited was making for a well-known high-end chain that sends you a catalog every week. And they quoted me on a chair,$120. And I pulled up their website, and the chair was over$1 ,100. dollars. And so really when I moved over there, that was the only contact I had these two or three factories. I had studied abroad in Beijing before. And so I was familiar with Asia, but, um, no, moving over there was, uh, it was research, but, but a little bit of a leap of faith. And fire nation, this is what it means to go all in. Like when you have conviction, when you have a big idea, you know, you now need to execute and guess what's 99.9 % of people are not going to pick up their life and move to Asia to figure this out.

6:45Boots on the ground. They're going to rely on middlemen of middlemen. You're never going to quite know like, who am I talking to? What factory is like, you're not going to be looking people in the eye. I can be shaking their hands. You're not going to actually see the inside of the factories to see like what they're doing in there. And you know, eventually something's going to go wrong and you're not really going to even know what the next step is. But when your boots on the ground, you actually make these connections, you have a chance. And what I would love to know next, Jay, is what was your first hint of traction?

7:11Like, you know, obviously, you know, Yardbird is rocking it right now, but what was that first hint of traction that you were like, wow, this actually may turn into a success? I remember it distinctly. So our original idea, which I haven't shared much with anybody else, was that a, you know, the Santa Claus in the malls areas, you know, they're kind of in a central location. We rented out a space in a mall to test this concept because it's a seasonal business. And we thought we don't need the retail space in October, November, December in Minnesota. And so we rented this out and everything they say about malls is true.

7:45It's typically elderly people going to get exercise and younger people going to get food. And so the boomers wanted to sit on our furniture because they were tired of walking and the young millennials wanted to eat food on our furniture. And so that wasn't working. And so we had to pivot. And we brought it into, we put it on Craigslist on our warehouse and we sold over $100 ,000 in under two weeks out of our warehouse. So it was just getting in front of the right people. And so really that pivot from the mall to the warehouse was when we knew that we had some traction. Now you decided to build Yardbird with sustainability at the core function of everything that you did.

8:35Why did you decide to do it? And how did you? My primary interest in sustainability became from the boots on the ground that we were talking about earlier. I was in Asia and I saw just the incredible raw materials going into these products to service both the United States and Europe and Australia. It was overwhelming. So at the same time, you know, I'd seen brands like Adidas talk about how they'd been using intercepted ocean plastic. And the more I dug into it, the more interest I became in it or I had in it. And so we continued to expand on that to offset all of our carbon emissions from furniture coming from the factory to your home.

9:14So we've got a little seaweed issue down here in Puerto Rico, as do many Caribbean islands and a lot of the Brazil coastline as well called Sargassum. So I would love if you developed a furniture line based on Sargassum. What do you think? Well, it's funny you say that actually. Last month I spoke with an Australian guy who is using seaweed as a plastic alternative. The only problem for us is that it disintegrates in about a year or two outdoors. And so I don't know if our customers would love it if we use that material. But, you know, maybe for pivoting into your first indoor line at some point and you decide to go the sargasm route, you've got a lot of people in my community and on my islands and just in the Caribbean in general who would love to support that.

10:04I can tell you for sure. So Fire Nation, sometimes you need to think about, you You know, there's more than just dollars and cents. Maybe I can generate real revenue by providing great products, great services, and also make the world a better place. And like, that's fantastic. And anybody that's watched the movie, the documentary on Netflix, Seaspiracy, and other ones, you know that we need more entrepreneurs that are having sustainability at their core, focusing on that, making this world a better place. So Fire Nation, we're going to talk about what it's like to work with your dad or just kind of any family member in general.

10:44We're going to talk about, you know, dealing with growing your company, capital raising and all that comes along with that. And so much more when we get back from thanking our sponsors. The amount of software required to run a growing business can be daunting. And how do you even know if you're using the right tools? There's help desk software, payment software, email marketing tools, blogging tools, SEO tools. Well, I've got some great news for you, Fire Nation. You don't need more tools to get more out of your business. You just need HubSpot. Their all-on-one customer platform is a dream come true for every member of your team.

11:18With best-in-class campaigns and workflows to generate more leads for marketing, your team can focus on your big goals, not on whether something is going to break mid-launch. And with category-leading pipeline management to help sales close more deals, your team will be celebrating wins instead of spitting their wheels. Plus, HubSpot has powerful AI chatbots and a knowledge base to help service teams scale, which leaves your customers happy. And it's built to deliver results and revenue faster to help your business grow. So dump the disconnected tools and the chaos that comes with them. Discover what HubSpot's all-on-one platform can do to streamline your business.

11:52Visit HubSpot.com to grow better today. Do you have a message inside that you know is meant to be shared with the world? Giving a TEDx talk is one of the most powerful ways to share your message with the world, and Thought Leader can help you get there. Thought Leader is a speaker coaching company that has helped over 550 and counting coaches, speakers, entrepreneurs, authors, and experts land TEDx talks. Thought Leader is not affiliated with TED or TEDx, but they're able to get these results because their founder, Taylor Conroy, is a four-time TEDx speaker himself and past EOFire guest. You might be thinking a TEDx talk sounds great, but where do you start?

12:27Taylor has put together a free training that's going to teach you how to land a TEDx talk in as little as 90 days. Join Taylor to learn exactly what TEDx organizers are looking for in their speakers, how to write a talk that goes viral once it goes online, and more. Visit thought-leader.com slash fire. Join Taylor for this free training and get your message out of your head, out of your heart, and out into the world where it belongs. That's thought-leader.com slash fire. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Can you believe we're already halfway through 2024? I mean, time flies, especially when you're head down trying to grow your business.

13:06But one thing I've done consistently for the past 12 years is check in on where I'm at with my goals. Now is a perfect time to do that. And therapy can be a huge help when it comes to taking stock of progress and making adjustments for the remainder of the year. That's right. Therapy isn't just for those who have experienced trauma. It can be incredibly helpful when it comes to learning how to set boundaries, leveraging your time most effectively, and getting back on track with your goals. Not sure where to start? Give BetterHelp a try. It's not only super convenient and flexible, it's also easy to dive right in.

13:38Just fill out a brief questionnaire online and get matched with a licensed therapist. Take a moment. Visit BetterHelp.com today to get 10 % off your first month. that's betterhelp.com slash fire we're back and you co-founded yardbird with your dad i mean it was kind of nice that he had decades of experience in the high-end home goods industry so he wasn't coming in like all right what do we do what's what's outdoor furniture so there was some benefit obviously with bringing on this much experience and knowledge but what was it like building yard bird with your dad. Talk through that whole experience.

14:17Sure. I think when most people are looking for a co-founder, you're typically looking for a peer of theirs or maybe somebody who went to business school with them. My dad had run some businesses primarily as a middleman, actually, and had touched on the outdoor furniture a little bit. But he had already had some warehouse space, back-end support in his business. And it's been a great partnership. I wouldn't want any other co-founder. I think we can have conversations that normally, you know, normal co-founders might not be able to have. And for Yardbird, it's been a great benefit. I also think that there's a huge opportunity for second generations to revolutionize their family business.

15:04I think it's often overlooked. You know, people want to move to New York to work in advertising or if they want to be a nanny in LA or something a little bit more sexy. But I think, you know there's a lot of opportunity in existing businesses to look at the business model a little bit and iterate it to the current generation and and that's the way that that both my father and i look at what we've done together in the outdoor furniture industry you were able to do this you know and a lot of people look at partnerships with family with spouses with significant others as a minefield just waiting to happen.

15:37So like, what are maybe some parameters? What are some lessons you've learned? What are some things that you kind of maybe set up before you went down that road that really made sure you were going to set yourselves up for success instead of disaster? Because, you know, sometimes when you're an entrepreneur and your business goes under, like obviously that's terrible, but it's like, okay, we'll learn some lessons and we'll make it happen. But when family's involved and now you have that kind of dynamic working as well, it can be like a double whammy. So, you know, there needs to be treaded with caution and there needs to be communication at the forefront.

16:11But what would you say to some people who are listening right now who are thinking about going down that road with somebody in their family, significant others, parents, siblings, whatever it might be, and what exactly would you caution them against? I would say for most people, I don't know if I would recommend it. I just happen to have probably the coolest father in the world and coolest name. He's actually, his name's Bob Dylan. I love that. You can be like, yeah, listen, I've got Bob Dylan on the board. I've got Bob Dylan as an investor. I mean, I've actually got Bob Dylan as a partner. I mean, he's going to perform at our upcoming event.

16:49It's going to be amazing. Yeah, we tried to get Keith Richards, but he wasn't as interested. So I hope none of my other family members are listening. We understand the complexities of having family members in the business. And we've worked really hard at at not, you know, bringing everybody in the family in because we just don't think we're smart enough to navigate that type of environment. And so we've been lucky in that we drive well and we have a good working experience. Things that we set up, we just said initially our relationship is more important than the business. And so we need to be careful of that.

17:22I think the fact that I was coming into a family business and had that incredible opportunity also kind of set the pecking order in that it was his business. And while I was there to improve it and to grow it, and he, you know, gratefully gave me the runway to do that, I always understood that I was ultimately reporting to him. And I was the student and he was the teacher. And so I think that having clear lines like that helps. And we've grown to have a mutual respect for each other. And I would say now we're starting to look at each other more as peers. So you are dealing with explosive growth with Yardbird.

18:05You're raising capital. I mean, you're also doing the day-to-day of running this company. So how do you wear all of those hats? How do you do all of those things? And what advice could you give to Fire Nation who's growing businesses that are similar to yours or who may be one day? I would say having a great co-founder and as you bring on employees, having great employees. I don't view anything that I do as particularly well, but I think I'm good enough at all of it that I'm able to keep the balls in the air. one of the nice things about having a lot of balls in the air or managing a lot of things is you don't have a ton of time to sit and ruminate about ideas or about you know different things and so you need to make decisions and I think you know consequently that's a good thing is being forced to make a lot of decisions.

18:55So what else would you say has been a big reason why you've been able to kind of balance like are there things that you're doing day to day I mean obviously you've got a family, you've got to do some things to keep your health and wellness in check and in order. Like what boundaries are you setting, if any, right now that are really helping you? I have a wife that, while she has her own career, is very understanding at most times of what we're doing. And even this interview with you, John, you know, I had to run 10 minutes late because I have a two-year-old and the school called me and said he has a fever and he needs to be picked up.

19:27And so I have an understanding team and an understanding family. And for that, I'm incredibly grateful. And an understanding podcast host. Exactly. You say, actually, send me your address and I'll send you flowers after this for your patience with me. Well, if they make it here, I will give them to Kate and just tell her that they are from me. And we'll all be winners in that scenario. And Jay, give us one final takeaway. Give us the one thing that you really want to make sure Fire Nation gets from everything that we talked about here today, some kind of value bomb, some big knowledge takeaway.

20:01way, then share how we can connect with you and your company. And then we'll say goodbye. Just go out and do it. You know, come up with as good of a business idea as you can. I think a lot of people have justifiably so fear of getting into business and doing it all. And I think that oftentimes that hampers people from actually doing anything. Look, failure is fine. We all experience it. And my biggest piece of advice is get out there and do it. You know, it's easy to come up with excuses. Hey, the Yardbird guy had a family business to jump off of. That's totally true. But we tried it and we did it.

20:36And so that would be my biggest piece of advice. To get in contact, my personal email is jay at yardbird.com. We're also on Instagram, Facebook, and I'd give out my personal cell phone number, but I think that would further enrage my wife. Well, Fire Nation would be jumping on that. So I do think that may be one thing you want to keep to yourself here. And Fire Nation, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. And you've been hanging out with JD and JD today. So hello, keep up that heat and head over to eofire.com. Type J, J-A-Y in the search bar. His show notes page will pop up with everything we talked about here today.

21:16Best show notes in the biz, timestamps, links galore. And hey, if you're looking for some sustainable outdoor furniture, check out Yardbird. And again, it has sustainability at its core. So you know, you're doing right by the world at the same time. And Jay, I just want to say thank you, brother, for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your value with Fire Nation today. For that, we salute you and we'll catch you on the flip side. Thank you so much for having me. Today's value bomb content was brought to you by Jay and Fire Nation. Are you ready to rock your very own podcast. Well, if you are, then check out our free podcasting course where I will teach you how to create and launch your podcast for, you guessed it, free.

21:59Check out freepodcastcourse.com, freepodcastcourse.com. I will catch you there or I'll catch you on the flip side. Hustle and Flowchart, hosted by Joe Feer, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Join Joe as he discusses systems, mindset tweaks, reframes, and strategies to help you build a business that gives you freedom and fuel for your life. A recent episode on using AI for effortless content creation is a must listen. Listen to Hustle and Flowchart wherever you get your podcasts. Ever thought about giving a TEDx talk? It's one of the most powerful ways to share your message with the world.

22:36And four-time TEDx speaker Taylor Conroy from Thought Leader can help you get there. Visit thought-leader.com slash fire to join Taylor's free training where he teaches you how to land a TEDx talk and spread your message to millions.