Learn Why Being Apathetic is Pathetic with Paul Harley Liechty: An EOFire Classic from 2021

0:01Boom! Shake the room, Fire Nation. JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire. are brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals with great shows like Online Marketing Made Easy. Today, we're pulling a timeless EO Fire episode from the archives, so the giveaway may not be active, and we'll be breaking down how to learn why being apathetic is pathetic. To drop these value bombs, I are brought to Paul Harley Lichty in the EO Fire studios. Paul Harley thrives at a business consulting firm in Tulsa and is passionate about eliminating apathy in people's lives.

0:35In today's Fire Nation, we'll talk about why apathy is an essential topic for success in entrepreneurship because it shows that many people are apathetic with their lives to reach goals or positively change things. Not every person has a natural obsession for getting a fast resolution to their problems, and most entrepreneurs aren't bold enough with their work and aren't obsessive enough to make their work remarkable and so much more, Fire Nation. And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Paul, Harley, and our sponsors. Business Made Simple, hosted by Donald Miller, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.

1:09Business Made Simple takes the mystery out of growing your business. Join my friend, Donald Miller, each week as he shares value bombs on topics like the secret to making better marketing decisions. Listen to Business Made Simple wherever you get your podcasts. Ever thought of giving a TEDx talk? It's one of the most powerful ways to share your message with the world. And four-time TEDx speaker, Taylor Conroy from Thought Leader can help you get there. Visit thought-leader.com slash fire to join Taylor's free training, where he teaches you how to land a TEDx talk and spread your message to millions.

1:46Harley, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something interesting about yourself that most people don't know. What is up, Fire Nation? So glad to talk to you. JLD, I've been marinating on this question for weeks. But I would say that in sixth grade, I had a weird obsession with geography to the point where I memorized every name of every country and I could identify every name of every country on a map. Wow. Isn't there like 194 countries? That may be the total now. I know back in sixth grade, it was just over 200 countries. That's pretty impressive and something that a lot of people didn't know about you.

2:33And Fire Nation, as I mentioned in the introduction, we're going to be talking about why being apathetic is pathetic. And Harley, you have a way with words as Fire Nation you'll continue to see throughout this interview. But I want to start off just by saying, what is apathy? for those of us out here that kind of would love your definition of it. And then why is it such an important topic to discuss in conjunction with entrepreneurship? Fabulous, JLD. Definition for apathy, I have right on the cover of my book, Pathetically Apathetic, that you can find on Amazon. But apathy is defined as showing no interest or energy and unwilling to take action, especially over something important.

3:20And just to give a little bit of backstory here, JLD, I graduated from college 2017 from Moore Roberts University, Tulsa, Oklahoma. That's where I'm from, or that's where I'm living now. And before I started working at my current job at a business consulting firm, I was a pathetically apathetic man. I know, I know. But my father, he's a successful lawyer over in Dallas, and he owns a multimillion-dollar law firm. And so when I was growing up, JLD, it was pretty easy for me. I didn't have to stress about where food was coming from, where I'd be living, and really anything like that. And so I didn't have to work hard for much or build up discipline or consistency.

4:12But as a result, JLD, I didn't realize that I lacked some of the necessary character traits that are actually needed to making a good living, accomplishing great goals, and actually defining a great life for myself. And so as a result, when I got out of college, I had pretty much no direction for my life, barely any work ethic to build myself up, and sank into a depression. I had no idea what I was living for. And so when I started working at this consulting job, Fire Nation can look it up. It's at Redmond Growth Consulting over in Tulsa. I quickly realized this was a place of excellence. You know, JLD, the clients we work with grow on average 64 % year over year in total revenues and many times more than that.

5:05And so even if getting in there I hated doing 200 cold calls a day and found the consulting super difficult because I'm naturally not a confrontational person, I knew that I just had to stay in the fire and be committed because I knew I would be the man I would need to be. And all that being said here, JLD, this inspires me to write this book, Pathetically Apathetic, because this book highlights the fact that so many people are apathetic with their lives. There's no fire, no intensity, no haste to reach your goals or positively change things. And honestly, I look – JLD – I watched a little video about you and your life.

5:52If you had to make a dramatic shift from doing the things that, you know, everybody told you to do, working in the corporate world and doing, I guess, commercial property management at some point, you were just like, I got to get out of this. This is not where I want to be, right? Absolutely. And I just want to make a note before we continue any further that Fire Nation, this is such an important and fantastic message. And to even back up a little bit more in my story, Harley, like when I got out of the army, I became just very apathetic. I mean, I had spent four years as an officer in the army.

6:28You know, I was leading men in war, like in talk about intensity and being at risk and all these things. and then I like went back to the civilian world and I was like well you know what I have like six figures in the bank like low six figures but I mean for you know a single no responsibility mid 20 year old with no debt that's a ton of money you can live on that for decades and I had thought about it and I became apathetic I was like man I don't have to do anything nothing seems to have the same excitement for me that the army used to when again we were in war and battle being shot at, having to make life and death decisions literally every single day, I absolutely became apathetic.

7:09I absolutely became depressed. And I had to pull myself out of that by forcing myself into these situations that you're talking about here, Harley. And that's why I'm so passionate for our nation about the message that all the magic happens outside of your comfort zone. Don't stay in that comfort zone for that long because you will get apathetic, you will get lazy, you will get bored, and you will get apathetic. These things will happen. So you say that most people are pathetically apathetic. So, I mean, we're taking this kind of to the next step. What does that mean, Harley? And, you know, directed to entrepreneurship here, because that was the end of the first question.

7:48You know, let's say someone's got a, a lot of your listeners, Fire Nation, have a business idea, or they have a business, they're trying to get off the ground. And so, you know, the dream here, JLD, is for someone to listen to the show and they think, yeah, okay, let me buy this book or after this message, I got to get my butt in gear. You know, let's get after it. Come on. I am not apathetic. But the sad part that's real honest, real honest talk here, is that even if someone did want to change, most are not able to. and these are some of the chapters I highlight in the book where, first of all, they don't have the environment around them to be able to push them towards excellence and discipline.

8:31I mean, that was so pivotal for me getting into this business consulting work is that it gave me a big electric jolt to say, whoa, okay, this is what excellence looks like. And then second, Also, they don't naturally have an obsession for solving their problems quickly and focusing, which is such a huge trait you'll find with every person who's accomplished and happy with their life. And that's what I talk about in Chapter 5 of the book. But then even beyond that, in Chapter 3, the first problem is that I talk about how people don't trust in themselves to actually get these goals done. You know, JLD, Pew Research talks about how only a third of Americans trust each other.

9:19And in my own age group, under 30-year-olds, over 70 % of young people say that most people would try and take advantage of you if they had the chance. Wow. So to sum that up, if we can't trust people or ourselves to be consistent and deliver, and we also don't naturally obsess over excellence and leaning into problems, and we don't have an encouraging, motivating environment around us, then our efforts to try and not be apathetic can very easily look pathetic. And I dive into that honest conversation here in the book, Pathetically Apathetic. So let's really dive into the biggest areas. Like what are the low hanging fruits, those biggest areas that entrepreneurs get apathetic about?

10:09And then, you know, hey, if we can start to maybe have a little conversation about getting out of that apatheticness, that'll be great. I think we should take one of the lessons from a guy we both respect, JL, the Seth Godin. Because most entrepreneurs, what he talks about is that most entrepreneurs aren't bold enough with their work or obsessive enough to make their work remarkable. And I quote Seth Godin a couple times in the book. One of his great classic quotes from Purple Cow is that the old rule was this. create safe, ordinary products and combine them with great marketing. The new rule is create remarkable products that the right people seek out.

10:55And so some specific examples, JLD, that we see in our consulting firm is, you know, business owners, they want to massively grow their businesses, but they don't want to implement a bold no-brainer offer that shocks people or puts them at risk a little bit. or they're not willing to go above and beyond to text and call their friends, family, and previous customers to gather Google reviews, even though we give them multiple examples of other business owners where they start generating a lot of work and they start ranking more highly on Google because they have a lot of Google reviews. Or, you know, JLD, how about the fact that most people would be fearful to spend thousands of dollars to jump on a podcast like yours and bet on themselves to deliver and do a great job.

11:43Now, that is a specific and very impressive point you made, Harley. Yeah. And so just speaking to your Fire Nation here, we cannot be weak and feeble with our efforts. I'll reference again another quote I have in Pathetically Apathetic from Pastor T.D. Jakes, where he says that exceptional and ordinary always have conflict. anytime exceptional people dwell in the midst of ordinary thinking people there's always going to be conflict and so fire nation we have to expect confrontation if we truly want to have excellence so please for the love of jesus christ make a bold advertisement you know i i don't know jld you you see some ads have you heard of this company called like the manscape guys oh i just I was actually heard them, they were promoting themselves on a podcast and they got a little controversial there.

12:41Yeah. No, the ads they have there are just shocking, almost a little disgusting, their whole product. Well, what are we doing? We're talking about them right now. They're getting literally a free ad on Entrepreneurs on Fire when it would cost them thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars to promote their products on Entrepreneurs on Fire. and it would kind of be during a little blurb, not during like the actual interview, which now we're already giving so much credence to. It's incredible the power of this. Right, and so to your Fire Nation, where a lot of them are startups and entrepreneurs, they have to be bold with their work.

13:16They have to get out, they have to fire dysfunctional idiots from their company because they're making their company sick and leaving them hostage. Or if they're not naturally getting in business, they have to make hundreds of outbound calls to people to sell themselves and be their own evangelists. You know, you and I both know we don't have time to sit around and be apathetic about where we really want to be with our lives. And that's why the subtitle of Pathetically Apathetic is take action. No one else will. Fire Nation, it's so important you're getting this message. I love the phrase, love me or hate me because there's no money in the middle.

13:58Because guess what, Fire Nation? There's no money in the middle. And Harley, you can take that one. Just give me credit twice, then it's yours forever. And I really want you, Fire Nation, to start looking at things and asking yourself, how can I be controversial? How can I be polarizing? And I'll tell you, you brought up Seth Godin, who actually endorsed my book that's coming out in March. I was super honored that he did that. And he also gave me a 40-minute chat with him because I've had him on the podcast a few times. He's really appreciated that. So he Biggest takeaway. I was going to say the one takeaway, but there was a lot of takeaways.

14:31The biggest takeaway was he told me, he said, John, you need to make sure when you're doing things that you are controversial, that you are polarizing. Because if you're not polarizing and controversial, you're not interesting. And interesting is dangerous. Boring will get you broke. It is the end of the story, Fire Nation. It really will. And so that's why, like, guess what? I did something that was pretty crazy back in 2012. I launched a daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs. Nobody had ever done that. I was the first person to do it. It was daily for 2000 days. And guess what, Harley? Hundreds of people have launched a daily show interviewing entrepreneurs since then.

15:08But guess what? They're just a pale, weak imitation of entrepreneurs on fire because they are just now copying what other people have already done. And none of them have been able to achieve that level of success. So what can you do that's different, that's unique, that's polarizing, that's controversial? And don't worry about it. You're not trying to resonate with everybody, Fire Nation. You're only trying to resonate with a core group of people. And that can make your business, that can make your revenue, that can make your life. And we have a lot of important stuff to discuss when we get back from thanking our sponsors.

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18:40That's thought-leader.com slash fire. Harley, we're back and I want to know a little bit more about your book and the specific examples that you share within this book from your own life when it really focuses around this topic of apathy. JLD, it's been three years working at this for me. And I find it funny. You interview a lot of guys that are already at the top of the mountain or have accomplished a lot of really awesome things with multimillion-dollar businesses and great empires. And I think what's kind of cool for your Fire Nation is they're hearing from someone that's like right in the midst of grinding up and working through it for three years.

19:24Because as I emphasize in Chapter 9 of Pathetically Apathetic, three years is not long enough at all for trying to change from being a pathetically apathetic person. But what they should be encouraged by is that while a lot of people around the world have had a really bad year in 2020, as it's a little weird for me to say this, but this year has actually been the best year I've ever had. And to emphasize a few of those reasons, I discovered over the three years that I have two tasks that I want to be a master at, which is writing and jazz piano. and not think about growing massive companies anything like that but these two stuck out to me and so in april 2018 i simply committed to three hours per week every week scheduled it in the calendar consistently and as a result of just that kind of commitment i've recorded music albums and put together music videos and jld next week i'm actually flying out to pennsylvania to play at a bed and breakfast, and it's all expenses paid for me to come out there and do that for them.

20:34That is fantastic. And just to continue to pile on, I've continued to earn more and more money at this consulting firm and I've saved 30 % of my income each week, actually 30 % of my income each month. And I know that whenever my Roth IRA gets taken care of at 60 plus years old, I know that my commitment of 500 bucks a month is going to set me up really well. On top of that, I met a really awesome girlfriend that should continue to go well for a while. But JLD, she would not think of me as attractive or call me the love of her life if I was still a pathetically apathetic guy. On top of that as well, I've also improved in my relationship with God where I've delve in and read through the New Testament with the Bible and re-engaged myself on the faith side.

21:30And with this book, Pathetically Apathetic, really the larger theme is I want to become a ghost writer where I'm editing and writing books for people as a career. But in order to do that, I actually need to prove that I can write a book. And so I just released this book in late November for 2020. And it's apparently going very well, where just by leveraging my network, I've gotten almost 200 people to buy the book. And I took a chance and threw down a few thousand dollars to jump on this podcast and tell your Fire Nation about this book. And I don't know how many books will actually sell, but just like how your Fire Nation needs to bet on themselves to get the job done, I'm betting on myself to deliver a great podcast that motivates and encourages your listeners to have a fantastic 2021 and possibly enjoy reading my book.

22:29You know, something I'll jump in and kind of share here is that I'm a big believer in the fact that it can really just be one connection, one network, one conversation, one person hearing your words right now on this show or maybe on another show that you get on because you were on this show or any number and string of events that, you know, takes that investment you made to be an entrepreneurs on fire. It doesn't just 10 X, it doesn't a hundred X it, but literally changes the course of your life. Cause this happened to me. Like that literally has happened to me. So, you know, for fire nation and I'm not saying you were doing this exactly Harley, but I want fire nation to realize is, you know, it's not just like, Oh, am I going to sell enough books to kind of make up for the investment that I made in entrepreneurs on fire or other things that I've done or Facebook ads or this or that, whatever it might be.

23:16It's just like, man, am I confident that one person might hear this message that could alter the course of my future in such a very beneficial and positive way? And that can be a different way to look at things than just that straight ROI. I mean, you could, you could get both. You could get more than both. I think You never know, but it's critical to think about things like that. Fire Nation opportunities are so, so critical. Like I can remember so quickly, um, back in like 2014, when Tim Ferriss was about to launch a podcast, like he reached out to me via email and he was like, John, like I would absolutely love to hear what you think about launching a podcast.

23:55Cause you've been doing it for a couple of years now. You have hundreds of shows. I could have like sent him back my rate card for one-on-one coaching. And I was like, he'll laugh at that for one. I'm going to just do everything that I can to add value to Tim's life. And, you know, I'm going to go from there. And I mean, he shared my podcast. He was relinking and reposting my free podcasting course and articles I've written. And it was such an exponential return than any monetary thing he could have given me. And it's just one of those things you have to think about those one single opportunities, Fire Nation.

24:29So, listen, let's coach someone up. I mean, people that are listening right now, some of them might be a little sluggish, a little discouraged about their life and actually how they're doing and where they're going. So let's spark some passion and some fire. Let's ignite some momentum. Take it away, Harley. Awesome, JLD. I would love to do that. So I'll be referencing from the first chapter of Pathetically Apathetic here for just a simple five steps that your listeners can take action on today with whatever their goals are. And honestly, you can find these steps in other books, but let's dive in.

25:09The first step here is you've got to specifically identify all the things you want to solve. A lot of people got a lot of ideas floating around in their heads, and they're getting lost in the clutter. And so they need to cut out the distractions, throw a phone that they've got in a garbage can, I don't know, just sit down by themselves and write down everything that's floating around up there. All ideas, all different tasks, whatever. Get it on paper. I actually prefer getting it on a big whiteboard so it's right in front of my face. But that's the first step is identify. Second is we've got to plan and figure out how we accomplish this stuff.

25:49So dive into books. Listen to a bunch of podcasts from EO Fire. Do a bunch of research in Google. What is that plan for you to learn Italian or for you to help advocate for abortion rights? I don't know what the goals are. but second we got a plan third we have to schedule when and how frequently you'll take action you know there's there's a when and aware for being able to execute these steps in this plan so how consistently will you be improving your puzzle skills and when will you do that on a weekly basis literally schedule 8 to 10 a.m completing a puzzle so that's step three four is you got to honor that calendar.

26:35JLD, it doesn't help if someone schedules time to be able to have a hot date night with their better half, but then when the time comes, they say, ah, you know, let's not go out. It's cold outside. There's some snow. I had to do whatever. It doesn't help if they don't honor the calendar because then they're not going to trust themselves to be consistent and they're going to stay in that apathetic zone. And so you identify, you plan, you schedule, you execute, and then you just repeat the cycle. And, and, you know, JLD, a lot of people, when they hear those five steps, identify, plan, schedule, execute, and repeat, they might think that it's too simple or that it doesn't really give them a lot of like specific steps to massively grow their business or to have them rank on top of Google or how they can manage their employees better.

27:30But you know what it is? It's a basic skeleton for how they can implement and solve any of those problems because this is the core of it right here. You got to identify, plan, schedule, and execute and just keep doing that forever consistently. And I promise you that your Fire Nation listeners are going to quit being apathetic with their lives as a result. Man, Fire Nation, I hope you hit the rewind 30 seconds a few times, re-listen to that part, apply it, and see what comes out. I mean, hello. If you don't love where you're at right now and the direction you're going, it's time to start implementing some of these things that you're hearing.

28:11And Harley, so many value bombs you've been dropping, so many things that you're just kind of reminding me. because by the way, like, you know, I'm, I've really been living a pretty successful business wise life for the last eight years. I mean, that is obviously, you know, who knows what the future holds. I mean, we have roller coasters for all of us coming up, but I've been very successful for the past eight years. Sometimes you kind of forget what it was like just for me, you know, just 12, 13, 15 years ago, you know, when I was getting out of the military and I was literally apathetic and you brought me back there and I was like, man, that's not that long ago.