Monetizing Your Podcast with Heather Osgood

0:01Boom! Shake the room, Fire Nation. JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire, the only daily show interviewing the world's top entrepreneurs seven days a week. Today, we'll be breaking down monetizing your podcast. To drop these value bonds, I brought Heather Osgood into EO Fire Studios. Heather founded True Native Media, a podcast representation agency specializing in podcast advertising, and The Podcast Broker, a service that facilitates the buying and selling of entire podcasts. And today, we'll be talking about the evolution of podcast advertising, how podcasters struggle with monetization, and The Podcast Broker.

0:37We'll talk about that, buying entire podcasts, and oh, so much more. And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Heather and our sponsors. Fire Nation, are you ready to launch your own sports betting platform? Odds Jam's real-time API is trusted by companies big and small, from lean startups to major players like StatsPerform and SportsBet.io. Visit OddsJam.com slash Odds-API to learn more and talk with our team today. Mention promo Fire Nation to receive an exclusive discount. Heather, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with.

1:18Hi, John. Thanks so much for having me on the show today. I would say that in my life, I have been successful by taking action. And I think that most people feel like they need to plan and research and plan and research, and they just don't take enough action. And at the end of the day, when you take action, you get results. And so I really feel like that's the most important element of being successful, that most people just really, maybe they don't disagree with it, but they don't actually do it. Yeah, I love that Reid Hoffman quote, that if you wait until something's ready to be shipped, you waited way too long.

1:53Not too long, way too long. Take action, get stuff out. And today we're talking about monetizing your podcast. And I want to chat about the evolution of podcast advertising because you've been a leader in this space for years. How has the industry evolved? What's the biggest shift that's happening right now? The industry has really evolved so much. I've been in the industry for over nine years now. And when I started, no joke, I was making sales calls and people didn't know what a podcast was. and I remember thinking, oh wow, I picked the wrong industry. People don't even know what it is I'm selling.

2:33But it really just has evolved so much. When I started, there were 400 ,000 podcasts. Now there are over 4 million podcasts. And what I have seen has been the biggest shift that has been happening is that podcasters are no longer just podcasters. They're really content creators. And when brands are looking to partner with a podcaster, they're looking to partner with an influencer. They want to see that they're going to get exposure on not only your podcast, but on your social media and your YouTube and in your newsletters. And really kind of that mentality of shifting away from this idea of being a podcaster and shifting into the mindset of being a content creator.

3:16and then really partnering with brands that you have strong alignment with. It's really been a huge shift and we've seen the dollars that are being spent in this space. So we know the brands agree that these partnerships are very valuable. And they are very valuable and there is a lot of money being spent in this space, Fire Nation. But still, a lot of podcasters, Heather, are struggling with monetization. So break down some of the most effective strategies for securing sponsorships. And of course, I want to talk about the mistakes you're seeing podcasters make when they're trying to land these advertisers.

3:49So I think that one of the considerations that podcasters don't take is, is advertising really the best monetization strategy for your show? I think that we all have this idea that putting a whole bunch of ads on our podcast is going to be kind of the golden ticket. And we're going to be able to sit behind a mic and have great conversations and play all of these ads and the money is going to kind of roll in. But at the end of the day, you have to be realistic with yourself as a content creator and a podcaster and really think about what your goal is with your podcast and think about how to best monetize your show.

4:27And if you decide that advertising is the best route for you, that's terrific. But then you have to ask yourself some really important questions. And the first really important question is, is your audience actually large enough? I think that that's one of the mistakes that podcasters make is that they feel like their show is really large and they feel like brands should want to come and advertise with your show. But as I mentioned, with 4 million podcasts out there, brands and advertisers can really pick the podcast they're interested in. And so you have to make sure that your audience is really large enough.

5:05The other thing that I see podcasters doing is kind of going it alone. They maybe don't find a partner like, you know, a rep firm that's going to go out and be an advocate for them and secure advertising partners for them. They think that they'll put in all of this legwork and try to find sponsors. But really, at the end of the day, if you're able to partner with a rep firm, they already have those connections and they can analyze your show. They can tell you if your podcast is in a place where it really should be monetized and they can help you do that. And then I think it's also just really important to know the true value of your show is the audience that you are bringing to the table, one that a brand or an advertiser is going to be interested in partnering with.

5:52And that comes, I think, into play with understanding the engagement of your audience. So if you're asking your audience to do things and they're not responding, so if you're asking your audience to fill out a listener survey or sign up for your newsletter and you're not seeing a lot of action, that means your audience really isn't that engaged. So perhaps you should think about ways to get your audience to a place where it's really going to be a good vehicle for advertising. there's a lot of gold here, Fire Nation. And when I'm in podcasters paradise and people are just about to launch their podcast and they're like, well, John, like I want to wait to launch my podcast until I get sponsors.

6:31And I'm like, well, here's the problem. Like when you launch your podcast, 99 % of them are not going to have listeners. You're going to have to build that listener base over time, over energy, over effort. And that can come with time, but sponsors want to sponsor shows with listeners, with an audience. So why not be your own sponsor? Do you have a product? Do you have a service? Do you have a coaching or a mentorship program or a membership site? Like, do you have something that you can be the product of and promote on your show? That can be a great way to start for a lot of podcasters. And one thing that you did, Heather, was found the Podcast Broker.

7:06And this helps people buy and sell podcasts. So what makes a podcast valuable? And what should podcasters be considering if they're thinking about selling their show? Yeah. So I started the podcast broker because I was working in this representation firm, seeing all these podcasts that would come through and these really great established shows would say, you know what? I think I'm done podcasting. I'm just going to give up. And it kind of broke my heart in a lot of ways because podcasters don't always approach their podcasts as businesses. And I would say, you've got this really great asset. You should be selling this asset.

7:45You shouldn't just discontinue all of this work that you've put in. And most importantly, you've built a really strong audience. So we were just talking about this idea that in order to monetize your show, you need to have a strong audience. And so I founded the podcast broker to help podcasters buy and sell shows. So, you know, for instance, we just completed a transaction with a financial podcast that had been publishing episodes for 10 years, the host was like, you know what, this has been a great 10 years, but I think I'm done. And a new podcaster really had, had kind of struggled to build an audience, was able to purchase this fully established podcast and now step into a show that has over 50 ,000 downloads a month.

8:33And it's really a great way to get into the podcast game if you're interested in kind of stepping into a mature business. And just as we see people buying and selling websites or YouTube, the idea of buying or selling a podcast is a real thing. And we know that when you purchase a business, you really accelerate where you're at in terms of the stage of that business. And so stepping into a fully established podcast is a really great thing. Now, if you're a podcaster, I think, as we've mentioned in terms of monetization, it's important to think about the different ways that you can monetize your show.

9:12And that could be, you know, through selling your own products and services. It could be through advertising. It could be through affiliate opportunities, but you should also really start with the end in mind. And when you're creating a podcast, you should create it to be sold. I mean, you know, uh, John, you've obviously created a really thriving business and a thriving podcast. And one of the great things about your show is it's called entrepreneurs on fire, right? Um, it's not called the John Lee Dumas podcast. And so that was intentional. Exactly. If somebody wanted to come and purchase it, they could step into that business and, and, and are they going to be you?

9:52Of course they're not going to be you, but they're going to be them and they're going to bring a lot to the table. And so if you're thinking about starting this podcast business, thinking about selling your show is really an important piece and ultimately can be a great way to monetize your podcast efforts. So if you're thinking that that's something you might want to do someday, don't name your podcast after yourself, right? Because it's pretty difficult for someone else to step into your shoes, but it isn't difficult for someone else to step into your content. The other thing, which, you know, we're going to just keep harping on this is audience size.

10:27You have to establish an audience. The reason that someone would buy your podcast is because you have an established audience and it's really going to take that purchaser to the, you know, the front of the line, instead of making them go through this whole process of building a podcast, they can get that established show. Fire Nation, lots of great ideas and strategies here. And yeah, there was actually a lot of reasons why I went with the entrepreneurs on fire name because I wanted to build a brand around it. It's like I wanted the word entrepreneur to jump out to people who wanted to show about entrepreneurs who were on fire.

11:05And I knew that there would be potentially sometime down the road where I would want to be acquired or sell or maybe walk away, but still be able to give this brand, which is now globally recognized in the podcasting space, at least an opportunity to live on and to be purchased. So we have a lot more to talk about around this topic when we get back from thanking our sponsors. You've got AI helping you write emails and name your dog. Shouldn't you be using AI to help you invest too? Seriously, I know investing can seem a bit overwhelming. I've been studying it since a young age and I still have questions 30 years later, but it's an incredibly important part of my overall long-term wealth strategy.

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13:37Heather, we're back and you built True Native Media into this successful podcast agency. What were your biggest challenges scaling the business? In my opinion, the biggest, most challenging part of any business is your team. You have to have a team to support you. And at one point, a mentor of mine said, people don't build businesses, teams build businesses. and that's always just really resonated with me. I think that as an entrepreneur, you know, someone who has started multiple businesses and, you know, we talked at the beginning of the episode about this idea of taking action. I don't have any problems with that, right?

14:14Like that comes second nature to me, but I can't build a multimillion dollar organization. If it's just me and my computer, I have to really have a team around me. That's going to support me. And, um, And I'm not saying obviously you can't have multi-million dollar businesses all by yourself. People do it every day. But if you're really thinking about scaling your company and taking it beyond yourself, you have to build a team and really being able to hire the right team, train them well, make sure that you've got the right people in the right seats. It's a big challenge. And it's something that I work on every day and will continue to work on because having a team that not only is successful at what they do, but really is able to bring the brand that I've created to life and to abide by the ethics and values that I have in business is really important.

15:07And so for me, that's always the first place that I'm going to look is do we have a strong team? And how is that team greater than I am by myself? Next, I think that, you know, for us, I picked a really super detail-oriented business running ads with hundreds of brands on hundreds of different podcasts. There is a lot of detail that goes into that, making sure everything is correct and is lining up and executing well. And so I've really come to rely on technology. It's a really big, important piece to scaling the company. Without the proper technology, we can't become the organization that I know we can continue to build.

15:50And so technology has been a key piece. So we talked about this at the beginning of the show a little bit. There are big players coming into the industry, into podcasting, they're investing in it. So with that being said, what are some of the future trends of podcasting that you're seeing right now? I think that it's really important for us as an industry to make it easier to buy and sell podcast advertising. And I just mentioned technology being a key piece of our business. And it's a key piece in the industry period. I was fortunate enough to recently attend the podcast movement Evolutions in Chicago.

16:29And, you know, at the event, I was able to sit down with organizations that are building software that are really making it easier to buy podcast ads. We're talking about, you know, huge multimillion billion dollar advertising agencies and us putting tools in front of them that, you know, when they're making their buys to buy digital and when they're buying CTV and when they're buying OTT and all of these different things, having an option to buy podcast advertising alongside seeing how we can extend reach, seeing how we can really have even duplication and audience, which can be a good thing.

17:11sometimes. So having those tools in place for the podcast advertising industry is really important. And I see that we are continuing to have that take place, which is really great. The other piece of podcasts that we continue to struggle with really are the metrics and understanding without a doubt who exactly is listening to a podcast so that we can better target them. And we have seen a lot of advancements in that. We're going to continue to see advancements in that. And then, you know, I think just from a pure revenue perspective, in 2024, the industry did$1.9 billion in sales, but we're expected to be at$2.5 billion by 2026.

17:57And really just getting the attention that the audio industry deserves is something we're all fighting for. And I really believe that the industry as a whole is making strides in that direction. So Heather, I want to end with a bang here and have you give one piece of advice for entrepreneurs who they know it's time to start their podcast. They want to break into the podcasting space in the right way. What's your advice to them? You need to get to know the players. So I really have found the podcast industry to be a very tight knit group of people. The other thing that I found is that podcasters are extremely collaborative.

18:36They want to see the industry grow and succeed. And I don't think that I have really ever felt as welcomed into an industry as I have felt welcomed into the podcast industry. And if you really want to make big strides with your podcast or if you see an opportunity to create a business in the podcast space, getting to know the people in your industry makes a big difference. even, you know, being part of communities like yours, John, it really, really helps in establishing yourself and making progress quickly. Heather, a fire nation loves this content. They want to connect with you, with your business.

19:15What is your call to action for our listeners today? I would love to have folks connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm very active on LinkedIn. If you're interested in learning more about how you could personally monetize your business through podcast ads on your show, or if you are interested in talking about potentially buying or selling a podcast, if you just DM me on LinkedIn, I will be happy to get back to you and would love to have a conversation. Love that. Cause Fire Nation, you know, you're the average. Of the five people you spend the most time with, you've been hanging out with H-O and J-L-D today.

19:48So keep up the heat. And for links to everything we talked about, visit eofire.com. Just type Heather in the search bar. The show notes page will pop right up. And Heather, thank you for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your value with Fire Nation today. For that, we salute you and we'll catch you on the flip side. Thank you, John. Hey, Fire Nation, a huge thank you to our sponsors and Heather for sponsoring today's episode. And Fire Nation, are you an entrepreneur on fire who's looking to share your amazing message with the world? If yes, we are now accepting applications for EO Fire for entrepreneurs on fire.

20:22To learn more, visit eofire.com slash guest. And I'll catch you there or on the flip side.

20:52out.