People Want to Work, Just Not for You with Justin Brock

0:01Boom! Shake the room, Fire Nation. JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire. Brought to you by the HubSpot. podcast network, the audio destination for business professionals with great shows like I Digress. Today, we'll be breaking down the fact that people want to work just not for you. To drop these value bombs, I brought Justin Brack into EO Fire Studios. Justin is a husband, father, Marine Corps veteran, company founder with$70 million in exit value, a firm believer in the power of a team with positive momentum. In today's information, we'll talk about career versus passion. Talk about hiring, Justin's first hire, how age is just a number, and so much more.

0:39And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Justin and our sponsors. The Next Wave, your chief AI officer, hosted by Matt Wolf and Nathan Lanz, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Matt and Nathan are leading AI creators in your guiding light in the AI and technology frontier. AI technology is transforming the way we do business and the media landscape is fragmented. The Next Wave strives to be the leading podcast on AI technology and how you can apply it to growing your business. Listen to The Next Wave wherever you get your podcasts.

1:13Are you looking to start or grow a successful business? Attend the world's highest rated and most reviewed business growth workshop taught personally by Clay Clark and football great Tim Tebow at Thrivetimeshow.com slash EO Fire. Again, request life-changing tickets today at thrivetimeshow.com slash EO Fire. Justin, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. I believe that in the beginning, you do have to run through some walls and not worry as much about planning the ultimate process because we know the process is going to change.

1:54You just got to run through walls, get some revenue flowing, and then begin to build around that starting point. Well, Fire Nation, you know that we're talking to a Marine Corps veteran, so you knew there'd be talk about running directly through walls. You know, as an Army guy, I just walk around them because there's usually doors. But you know, listen, we let the Marines do what they got to do. No big deal. But we're talking today all about how people want to work. They really do, Fire Nation, but just not for you. So let's talk about the generation gap, because I feel like people have heard about the phrase generation gap, but they don't really know what it means on a practical level.

2:33So break it down for us. When I started in business, I remember one of my early partners was my dad. I brought my dad in the industry, and we hired a couple of people. And he would say, well, if they want to get paid, they'll do what I tell them and things like that. And it was this, he's, he's from the boomer generation, the baby boomers, you know, he's about 68 now. And, and then I always thought my default thought, I'm 36 now, it's a little while ago, but at, at that time was, no, they'll, they'll just leave. Like I just thought that and I heard someone say along the way that you got to treat all employees like they're volunteers.

3:12And if you do that and that kind of resonated with me, it's like, you know, people do have options, especially with the Internet and and things like EO Fire where you can say, well, I can go build my own thing or I can work in these good environments. And so that generation gap is because there was a time where what he said wasn't all that untrue. You know, the information era had just not blossomed to where it is now. And so that's what I'm referring to when I talk about the generation gap is, you know, bringing and even taking those people. I don't want it to seem like just an age thing because there are people that are in his age group that are doing a great job at this because they're adapting to the way things are.

3:53And that has proven to be true for us as we hire people now and treat them all like they're volunteers, like they have options and try to create an environment that makes sense for an employee to continue to want to show up to. we get more effort out of them than I believe most of these people that are just kind of saying, you have to do this because I said so. Now, speaking of this generational gap, I mean, I feel like a lot of people in the older generations, they just feel like, hey, I found a career, I became good at it, I'll retire 65 or 70, and then I'll die. I mean, that's obviously a little dramatic and not always the case, but something along those lines.

4:32And And then you have people like my generation, which I'm basically either the youngest Gen X or the oldest millennial. I'm like hovering that age or that frame there. So the Gen Xs, the millennials, and of course now the Gen Zs seem to be a lot more about passion. So talk about job versus career versus passion. We hire a lot of young people. And so there's this, this era early on, I would say the hiring sweet spot for us was kind of in the 27, 25 to 23rd, sorry, 25 to 32 or 27 to 32 mark is where we're going. I'm actually hiring even younger than that now, because there's this real, real kind of confusion in that age group about what people want to do.

5:20and I don't think it was always that way because I think back in the day it was like, well, you have to get a job and you have to work. Like you're saying, you know, I have to go and provide for my family and I have to do this. And now the society is just a little different. You know, kids will go to college or they'll not go to college and then they'll kind of stay at home. Moms and dads are taking better care of them. And I know a lot of the older generations are, you know, thinking, you know, what a bunch of wussies, you know, living with their mom and dad and all that kind of stuff. But, you know, really what's happening is that's just the way things are.

5:48So if I'm adapting as a business owner to that, I want to find these people because they're not, even though they might have a different expectation of the world, it doesn't make them any less potentially talented, any less, you know, potentially, you know, bright and intelligent. And so I want to get them in and give them that environment that gives them the opportunity to really prove that they were a diamond in the rough. Now, I definitely have some people that we come across that I think are a little more on the coddled side that I try to stay away from. So I try to find ones that maybe exude a little bit of potential from the get go.

6:23but that seeing the world through the lens of their present lens versus that old lens is an important thing to realize so that you can find those diamonds in the rough and then give them the opportunity that they didn't even know they were looking for. Now, we hear a lot of people using the phrase, fake it till you make it, but you actually believe a person can't fake caring for people. Tell us more about that. I built our business. We worked with tons of internal employees as well as a lot of private contractors that use our business as intermediaries in our industry. And as we're working with these people, I didn't realize how important they would become to me.

7:06But I think that a lot of our success in being able to get what I perceive as 2 and 3x effort out of an individual comes from the fact that I really did begin to care about them and I really did want them to succeed. And so I hear a lot of, you know, entrepreneurs out there and I don't necessarily disagree with this, but they'll say things like hire fast, fire faster. And I do believe that, you know, now there are some people that I certainly should have let go of quicker, but I do care and I do want them to do well. And so I think that there's the ability to develop over time a data set in your mind to have a balance between being overly operationally minded and overly emotionally minded.

7:49So like when can I hold on and when is someone as coachable? Because some people learn a lot faster than others. And if you're out in an, if you have an industry or if you're elevated in an industry to the point where maybe you're Steve Jobs, you know, back in the day when he's hiring Apple, well, he's getting this creme de la creme at some point of, you know, engineers, software engineers and employees because they really wanted at some point to work for Apple. So they'd probably bend over backwards for that opportunity. But sometimes if you're, you know, growing a business from inception, some of the people that you're getting may not be Ivy League graduates, may not have went to college at all.

8:23And so in that hiring pool, you might have to do a little bit more development yourself. But it really doesn't mean, from what I've found, that most of them aren't just as, don't have just as much potential as some of those high-level educated people or people that kind of took the right path from the get-go. So that's important to me. Fire Nation, I hope you're really understanding this whole process we're talking about. With a generation gap, job versus career versus passion, you can't fake caring for people and what that can actually mean, both the pros and the cons. And we have a lot more to talk about all around this topic when we get back from thanking our sponsors.

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10:21Are you looking to learn the proven success systems that have been used to create thousands of millionaire success stories? See thousands of success stories and testimonials from real people just like you, who Clay Clark has mentored and coached into prosperity at thrivetimeshow.com slash EO fire. Clay's proven business coaching program is month to month and it costs less than hiring a minimum wage employee. Yes, it's month to month and costs less than hiring a minimum wage employee. schedule your free personal 13-point assessment with Clay Clark himself today at Thrivetimeshow.com slash EOfire.

10:57Because Clay only takes on 160 clients and only allows 300 attendees to each business conference, you will interact with Clay directly, see thousands of real success stories, and learn about attending the Thrivetimeshow two-day in-person workshop featuring football great and entrepreneur Tim Tebow today at thrivetimeshow.com slash eofire. Become the next success story. Schedule a free consultation and request tickets to join Tim Tebow and Clay Clark at the next business conference today at thrivetimeshow.com slash eofire. Justin, we're back. And one thing I know from keeping my finger on the pulse with Fire Nation is that, man, hiring can be scary for sure.

11:37But really that first hire is usually typically the scariest the biggest first step. So talk to us about your first hire. It's very important to know that when you first start hiring people, why would someone work for you? Who are you? Normally people that are hiring their first person aren't known. And then that person's taking a huge leap of faith to attach their income earning potential to one individual, not a big business with a process, because that's how they view the world is like normally I go work for a big solvent business. So the first hire for me though is so important because if I can get the right person and the first couple for me didn't work out, you know, and I think that happens to a ton of people, but when you finally get that first, like this person, I can build a culture around, I'm building it around myself, but I'm also building it around that first hire almost just as much.

12:34I want to find somebody that's really going to buy in that's really pivotal. And Patrick Lencioni's book, The Ultimate Team Player, really comes to mind because he said, you know, hire people that are smart, hungry, and humble. So I'm looking for someone who, they don't have to be the person that knew they were going to have this career forever. Most of the people I was hiring in the beginning, you know, weren't people that, you know, grew up thinking I have to do all these things to get the career I wanted, but it doesn't mean that they weren't smart and hungry. And I was looking for that, you know, when I, when I hired those first people.

13:05Um, and then, you know, even that humility of, you know, knowing that I want to work somewhere where it's not all about me. Obviously I have goals, but it's about the entire, you know, ship and us rowing in the right direction. And it's very difficult that first hire to get people to buy into that because it's just that one person. Some people also hire two, three, four, five people at the same time in the beginning. I don't know. I didn't do that. I hired one, then gradually a couple of months later, two and then three. And it is very difficult in the beginning because you're developing momentum and you are basically the responsible party for all concepts.

13:41And so it's not necessarily pretty, but it is necessary. And eventually hiring gets easier and easier because the people come in, begin to see the culture that you've created with those people. Fire Nation, a lot of good stuff here. And I really hope you realize that, listen, That first hire, yes, it can be scary. But once you get there and you realize what you've done right, what you've done wrong, you can replicate that process going forward. And we've kind of already talked about this a little bit with the generational gap. But I want to dive deeper into your belief that age is just a number.

14:14Talk about that. So I do believe age is just a number. And I believe this when I'm talking to people about them hiring and maybe what they've done. We got to, you know, comparisons to the thief of joy. So I have to take whatever's happened in the past out of the equation. I'm moving forward, so I'm starting to hire people. But not just that. When I'm looking at an employee, I'm not looking at what their age is. Now, sometimes there is a correlation with their age and maybe their technical skill set or different things like that. But when I'm hiring people now, someone at a certain age group, let's say 40s, 50s, is going to bring something that someone maybe in their 20s doesn't as often bring to the table.

14:54But even when you're looking at that, there's the rule and the exception. I mean, I've had some of my older employees be much more technically inclined than some of my younger employees occasionally. So I would think like earlier when I said the sweet spot of hiring in the beginning was like 27 to 32. And I did believe that early. And that's what I went after was that 27 to 32. And the thought process there was that anybody under 27 probably still trying to figure out what they want to do with their life. and then anyone over 32 that hasn't figured it out, there may be a reason. That was my thought.

15:26And so I do think it helped me in the beginning to kind of form that core group around. But ultimately after that, I found like amazing people, you know, where this is their second career, you know, working with us. And then I found amazing people on the very young side. I can tell you, I've found 20 year olds that were, have become amazing employees where it's just like the maturity there was there somehow, you know, way earlier than other people. And then I've had 35 year olds or 40 year olds that I've hired that had no maturity at all. So I think when you're looking at it, you know, don't rule out interviewing someone based on that.

16:02We get a hundred resumes and we, we narrow it down to five interviews out of a hundred resumes. And then in that five, we typically hire one to two out of all of that. So we're very selective, but age now becomes way less of a factor in their over skill set. And also, when you think about, you know, who an employee is, what role I hire them for as my business evolves may not be the role that they always do. In fact, I've had some employees now that have held three or four roles and they start to develop a great understanding of our entire business and all the angles of it. So that's just kind of my thought process on that.

16:38You know, don't let a limiting belief about age or any sort of, you know, a demographic concept, anything like that holds you back from interviewing people. Look at the resume, look at the person, interview them, and then try to buy into the right people with the right initiative, the right personality, the right character. Well, as the team evolves and grows, you can't just be the one person. You're looking for leaders within your leadership. So let's talk next about picking the right leaders. The reason I even bring this up to people is I made the mistake early on. We have a sales organization, so about half of my internal staff, or slightly less than half, at this point is direct-to-consumer sales.

17:23And when you have some that emerge as wonderful salespeople, and they're doing three, four times the production of maybe one of your lower-mid-level salespeople, it can become very difficult to think like, well, maybe I should make this person a manager because that's going to distract them from all the revenue that they're bringing to the table. But I wish earlier I would have taken someone who was a top performer in their arena, not worried about the fact that I might lose in the interim, you know, off taking them off of the front line of what they do and having them train more people because your top performers often are your best mid-level management.

18:02Now, again, I'm going to rule in the exception guy. It's not always the case. So you have to look at it case by case and then do a little trial and error. But earlier, if I had it to do over, I would have taken my top salespeople and tried them in that mid-level sales management. But that's not just for sales. That translates to me now for administration, for other things. Sometimes you think this person's handling so much customer service or this person is doing so much service on the tech side. But if I can take them and help them train and replicate their efforts in other people and they're successful in doing that.

18:37Not only will they potentially get gratification from helping other people replicate their role, because that is what I've seen is they actually are gratified and duplicating their efforts in other people. It makes them feel like a leader. And sometimes people, when they feel like leaders, they just really, really blossom into a more and more capable person. So I would say earlier than you think, promote your top performers into management levels and give them the chance and the opportunity to become that mid-level for you. Now, one thing that I love being a veteran myself is that 10 % of your hires are veterans.

19:14Tell us more. It's a big initiative of mine. I'm actually in the process right now. I have a book launch coming on. It's my fourth book. My first three were about Medicare marketing, health insurance marketing, so very technical niche books. My fourth book is called Purpose After Service. And, you know, we all know that there is an issue with veteran homelessness and, you know, veteran suicide rates and things like that. And I find that it's because, you know, and you know this, when you were a veteran, there's this high calling when you become a, when you join the service, you know, you have this high calling.

19:51And then even though you might evolve in your opinions over time in it, your mission kind of becomes in the Marine Corps, we call it spirit of corps, like the man to my left and right. Like that real passion about taking care of one another and being part of something bigger than yourself. And I think that unfortunately, a lot of veterans, when they get out, they struggle to find purpose because it's like, what else is there in the private sector that is attainable for me that gives me this much purpose? And they think you always get to see things like insurance, real estate, finance, car sales, whatever, these things that people end up in.

20:28And it's hard for someone to see that that is a strong purpose. So I think if I'm able to hire these people in, not only hire them, which I'll get to in just a second, but help them find purpose by saying, hey, the purpose isn't necessarily selling a car or becoming a life or health insurance agent. But the purpose can be in that process, building a community of people that you care about just as much as you did the veterans you served with and get that across to them. And I'm able to see it every day in our hiring of 10 percent of our workforce as veterans and our 1099 contractors are veterans that they do find purpose and they're happy.

21:11And then once they have that momentum, you know, I don't know what I'm not saying their trajectory without us would have been bad. You know, they're perfectly capable people, but it's such a high success rate. And then you're getting to buy into these people that have been trained towards attention to detail and caring about the people that they work with. And they have a culture aspect to who they are that's really good for an internal work environment. Fire Nation, a lot to think about here. I mean, we're talking about picking the right leaders. We're talking about job versus career versus passion.

21:43generation gaps, hiring veterans, and so much more. So Justin, just take a step back now and let me hand you the mic and bring us home by sharing with us the one key takeaway you want to make sure Fire Nation gets from our conversation today. So this is a big one, okay, for me. We recently sold 51 % of our company, had a multiple eight-figure exit that gets overthrown out there, But we did achieve that in 10 years after my service. And in that process, I've learned a lot about gratification. And I tell a lot of my guys all the time, all the things that you want, you're putting them on a pedestal.

22:28Once you achieve them, if I buy a car or I fly private or I have a watch or whatever those things are, it's not that they're not fun and great and whatever. but they're always more, they're on a pedestal. They're not nearly as gratifying as you think. But the one thing that I, the two things I would say, one that are the most gratifying for me, one is obviously being able to provide and take care of my family and give them a life that I feel like I, they deserve from me. But number two is watching other people succeed within your business and feel like you had some part in that. That is so gratifying to me.

23:09And And so I just hope that I can impart that when you're building a business, if you're a solopreneur, if you're, you know, out when I first started listening to EO Fire, I was out on the road as a door to door insurance salesperson listening to this. So I'm hoping, you know, if I'm reaching that person that's like, you know, out there grinding on your own, eventually I hope that you know that a lot of gratification will be find that success, keep doing what you're doing, run through walls or find the doors like JLD will. And make sure that once you find that success, you figure out how to share it with other people and build that culture.

23:47Because even if you don't realize it now, that's where the gratification is. I can promise you. Fire Nation, you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. And you've been hanging out with JB and JLD today. So keep up the heat. And I got to say, it makes me smile to think of JB out there on the road, listening to Entrepreneurs on Fire years past, being inspired, getting some ideas, some motivation, some strategies, some inspiration to keep on going and look at what he's achieved. and Justin if you want Fire Nation to connect with you to learn more from you what is your call to action for our listeners today we'd really love people if you're on Instagram follow us at the Justin Brock always posting content there and then of course on YouTube we're on there Justin Brock I believe it's youtube.com slash Justin Brock you can find us or Justin Brock.com several ways to get in there yeah plug in and then reach out to us if there's anything we can do for you if you're a veteran, if you'd like to get on the list for when we release this next book, but love for you guys to check out our content.

24:54Fire Nation, as I mentioned, keep being the average of the five people you spend the most time with and keep those five high. And Justin, thank you for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your value with Fire Nation. For that, we salute you and we'll catch you on the flip side. Hey, Fire Nation, a huge thank you to our sponsors and Justin for sponsoring today's episode and Fire Nation. What can 4 ,000 of the world's most successful entrepreneurs teach you? How about how to achieve financial freedom and fulfillment? My first traditionally published book, The Common Path to Uncommon Success, is a revolutionary 17-step roadmap that will lead you to the lifestyle that you've been dreaming about.

25:32This book took me 10 years of accumulating the genius of the world's top entrepreneurs, and you can get it all in one place when you visit UncommonSuccessBook.com. I will catch you there or on the flip side. The Next Wave, your chief AI officer, hosted by Matt Wolf and Nathan Lanz, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Matt and Nathan are leading AI creators in your guiding light in the AI and technology frontier. AI technology is transforming the way we do business and the media landscape is fragmented. The Next Wave strives to be the leading podcast on AI technology and how you can apply it to growing your business.