Prepping for the Post-Pandemic Transformational Retreat Rush with Sheri Rosenthal: An EOFire Classic from 2021

0:01Light that spark fire nation JLD here and welcome to entrepreneurs on fire brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals with great shows like Creator Science. Today, we're pulling a classic episode from the archives, and we'll be breaking down prepping for the post-pandemic transformational retreat rush. To drop these value bombs, I brought Sherry Rosenthal into EO Fire Studios. Sherry is chief retreat strategist and CEO of Wanderlust Entrepreneur, where she's taught thousands of passion-driven entrepreneurs how to design experiential transformational retreats that allow them to stand out in their niche, change lives, and make incredible income.

0:36And today, Foundation, we'll talk about how people who do not believe in failure or success never feel wounded by things not working out, and that makes them resilient and invincible. And also that it's time to start to consider your retreat as part of your income-producing activities in your business, and so much more. And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Sherry and our sponsors. Success Story, hosted by my friend, Scott D. Clary, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Success Story features Q &A sessions with successful business leaders, keynote presentations, and conversation on sales, marketing, business, startups, and entrepreneurship.

1:10In a recent episode, Scott brings Kate Bradley on the show, founder and CEO of Lately.ai, to discuss the best ways to use AI to create content. Listen to Success Story wherever you get your podcasts. Yahoo Finance makes it easy to get financial news, data, and insights fast. For comprehensive financial news and analysis, visit the brand behind every great investor, yahoofinance.com, the number one financial destination, yahoofinance.com. That's yahoofinance.com. Dr. Sherry, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with.

1:51My pleasure, John. I really don't believe in success or failure per se. I believe in outcomes that are either expected or not expected, pleasant or not pleasant. And people who don't believe in failure never feel wounded by things not working out. And that makes them resilient because they don't take anything in business personally, not even their own supposed success or failures. That's what makes them invincible. And Fire Nation, you'll be seeing throughout this interview, we are talking about mindset. We will be talking about resilience, of course, as we focus on the overall core concept of this interview, which is prepping for that post-pandemic transformational retreat rush.

2:40And there's nobody better to talk about this than Dr. Sherry, because let's just be honest, a lot of people are just saying the wrong things. They're calling their live events a retreat. So even before we get rolling in this interview, I want to just break down for Fire Nation, What you mean by retreat so that we're just all on the same page. Absolutely, John. So retreats are really popular word these days and everyone and their brother is calling their event to retreat. But to retreat means to pull back and go inside. You know, you just went on one. So I have a very definitive opinion about what's a true transformational retreat and it is not a workshop in a pretty place.

3:20So an event where someone's teaching all day in a nice location for me is a workshop or a mastermind. It's not a retreat. There needs to be time to learn and lounge and go inside and process. This is what makes a good transformational retreat. And the critical key is that your activities help teach you material. And then your location is perfectly aligned with what you're sharing. So, for example, an essential oil retreat could be at a resort on the beach or it could be in Oregon when they're harvesting peppermint and your group helps in the harvest and distillation process of the oil. Right now, that is what I call a full balls to bones experience.

4:08And it's experiential. It's what people want right now, especially post pandemic. And just so folks know, I have literally been living, breathing and running retreats since 2000 when I worked for Don McGill Ruiz, the New York Times bestselling author of The Four Agreements, which I know so many of your listeners love. So that's 21 years of retreats. So, yeah, I'm a little opinionated about them. Well, I love people being opinionated. I love people, you know, really talking about things in a black or white scenario because, you know, the gray just leaves so much, you know, for our own type of definitions that we bring on experts to help us with these.

4:46And I love how you put this, Dr. Sherry, balls to bones experience. I mean, that's a keeper right there. I'm going to be using that one going forward. But I want to get deeper into this because running transformational retreats is important. As you mentioned, I just got back from an incredible 17-day wellness retreat, and it was so experiential. It was so transformational. I just had the best time, and I'm still just feeling on such a high and a rush from it. And we live in crazy times right now. I mean, the world is never going to be what it was before COVID broke out. So why are transformational retreats specifically so important in our current environment?

5:30So true, John. People are starved, literally starved for connections, a hug, you know, community and something to look forward to in their lives besides staring at the four walls in their family as much as they may love their family. That's interesting. After 9-11 and after the 2008 global recession, travel actually exploded. So we do have a precedence for what is to come. And from my point of view, you're either on the front par of the tsunami or the back end. Either you're ready to show up for your community and support them during this time of great change or you're not. and I think if you really care about your community, you are going to put yourself out there and help them go through this very challenging time.

6:21So one thing that I really want to call a spade a spade about because we've kind of mentioned it a few times already in this conversation is COVID is in this world. A lot of people are getting vaccines. You know, a lot of people aren't. You know, there's a lot of talk about how different strains are happening and who knows what the future may hold. I mean, we never know what the future is going to hold. So, I mean, this is kind of controversial. It's like getting people together in the same rooms or same environments and, you know, traveling and all these different things. What is your take on the controversial topic of, you know, basically holding retreats during this time?

7:00As a physician, I feel it's imperative that we have to travel responsibly and that we're prepared to protect our participants. I don't feel like COVID's going anywhere soon. So we just have to find a new normal. You know what I'm saying? We've got to find a way to live our life with the virus. Now, as a retreat leader, you get to set the rules for your retreat. You can require vaccines if you want or not. You can require folks to all take a single room unless they're friends or partners. You can require folks to stay six feet apart or require a mess if you like. It's up to you. I'm not going to tell anybody what to do, but keep in mind that you can be sued for negligence if someone gets sick at your event.

7:45So I'm just saying be smart, whatever that smart is for you. This is a really critical thing, Fire Nation, because you do need to protect yourselves legally if you're going to have people travel, if you're going to, you know, have events where people are actually in the same room talking to each other. And this is, you know, for all times, because you never know what's going to happen at an event. I mean, again, this wellness retreat that I was recently at, I mean, they've had situations over the years because people are fasting at this event. So sometimes you get lightheaded, you might fall down, you might hurt yourself, you might have this medical complication, that medical complication.

8:20So no matter even the time, it's always been important as a business owner to protect yourself. And you've been doing this, Dr. Sherry, for 21 years as far as retreats and gatherings and all these different things. So what specific advice would you give to our audience, Fire Nation, if they really want to make sure they're protecting themselves legally, you know, if we're having people travel, get together in these times? Absolutely. So there's three things that are critically important to understand. First, you have to have proper insurance. so that means professional and general liability insurance on your coaching business or whatever it is you do and whatever it is called in your country but most countries have the same thing some sort of professional and general liability insurance so the second thing is to have killer legal forms so in my business our legal forms that we share with our community are six pages long.

9:23They are really long. You cannot use a waiver anymore. There's so much text that you have to have in your forms now, especially for COVID, that it's just a disservice for yourself to just have a waiver. And some retreat leaders I know don't even have waivers at all. That has to change now. So you can't live in a bubble. You have to be responsible and do what needs to be done. So that's the second thing, killer legal forms. And then the third is you have to understand seller of travel law. So for most folks, it may not apply. But if you're in the United States, there are four states that have seller of travel law, which means that you can't really sell a retreat unless you are a travel agent.

10:15So the reason why this is important for retreats is retreats are normally all inclusive. So they include your room, your board, your food, your activities. That means you are packaging a travel experience, which is different when we do live events, right, John? So we go to a hotel and people pay for the hotel and food separate. It's broken down. But as soon as you do a retreat and it's all inclusive, you're selling travel. So, for example, in California, Washington State, Hawaii and Florida, these are strict seller of travel states. And if you are, for example, in Kansas and you're selling to California person, you still have to follow those laws.

11:01And in Canada, especially in Ontario, they are not allowed to run retreats, period. They will actually shut you down. So it is important to be aware of who you're selling to and where you're located and make sure you follow the law. And just because you don't know about it doesn't exclude you from the ramifications of it. It's important for us to know what's what when it comes to doing retreats and making sure we know the law, we are legally prepared and we're legally insured. Also, you should have insurance on your retreat itself because your normal professional and general liability insurance is not going to cover you if you go out of the country and something happens to your participants.

11:47And in my business, gosh, we have seen every crazy, outrageous thing happen on a retreat. Like you mentioned, people can get lightheaded. People could die. They could fall. They could break bones. They could be abducted. abducted. They could be attacked. Marriages can go to hell. People could stop taking their medication. I mean, they could have sex with guides. You wouldn't believe the crazy that can happen when you're doing retreats, but it's all good because in the end, we just love them so much and we managed to be smart, set everything up so we don't have to worry about any of these issues.

12:27And Fire Nation, this is why I bring on the best in their specific niche, in their specific area of expertise. I mean, Dr. Sherry has over 21 years of experience with this. So she knows you can't just have a waiver. You need six plus pages to make sure you are covering yourself because let's be honest, anything can happen. Literally anything can happen. And one thing we're going to be talking about after the break is like, hey, you've got to actually make money by doing these things. and you can actually get people to these retreats. So we're gonna be talking about some details on that. Plus, Dr.

13:01Sherry has some amazing future content on this when we get back from thanking our sponsors. You know your customers want fast, personalized support, but how do you find a customer service solution that actually delivers? Most solutions leave reps struggling to stay productive and customers frustrated by the lack of support. But with the new AI-powered Service Hub from HubSpot, you've now got a better way to do service and success. Service Hub helps you fly through the service queues and lighten the load on your reps with AI-powered self-service chat and knowledge-based articles. It also helps you grow your customer base with tools that helps reps anticipate customer needs before they ever become issues.

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14:14That's why I'm passionate about transparency when it comes to the financials of our business. As you know, we've been creating monthly income reports for the past 11 years. But whether you grew up knowing the importance of saving and investing or not, it's never too late to take control of your financial future. And to do so, you need the right tools. I know that behind every great investor is Yahoo Finance. Yahoo Finance allows me to get financial news, data, and insights fast so I can make informed decisions to reach the financial freedom we all want. I love how Yahoo Finance allows me to see all of my investment and retirement accounts in one place.

14:48So instead of logging into three or four different sites, I can see it all at yahoofinance.com. For comprehensive financial news and analysis, visit the brand behind every great investor, yahoofinance.com. The number one financial destination, yahoofinance.com. That's yahoofinance.com. Dr. Sherry, we're back. And as I kind of teased before the break, at the end of the day, we get to make some money if we're going to keep providing our genius to the world. So what are the actual elements that can lead to a profitable, well-designed retreat? John, I might sound a little repetitive, but experiential, experiential, experiential.

15:30Create something that creates unique elements. Make sure, as I mentioned, that your location teaches your material so your activities create value and that they're not commonplace. for example i once did a retreat on transcending fear and i took my group down to havasupai falls grand canyon and part of the challenge on this retreat was jumping off a 30-foot waterfall so the location aligned with what i was trying to teach on the retreat that key element is what's going to get your retreat sold in the first place alignment without alignment your retreat is just like a boring, what I call boiled chicken event.

16:16No one likes boiled chicken. I like the word alignments. Dr. Sherry has used that a few times. So you really got to think about that alignment with what you're doing, Fire Nation. So you gave one example, Dr. Sherry, can you give maybe a couple other examples that you've seen over 21 years that were just really aligned? It doesn't even have to be per se yours. Maybe it can be, but like, it's just like, you're like, wow, that is so aligned for these specific reasons. Yeah. One thing that I love right now, for example, if you're doing a health or wellness retreat and you're teaching people how to eat healthy, what I love is the new thing they have now of wild dining.

16:56So for example, create a wild dining five-star experience in the forest at night on a table that's covered with fine china and a symphony of flowers right out of Alice in Wonderland, you know, all foraged and found food. So it really aligns with what you're doing. Depending on what you're teaching on, if you're visiting a foreign country, dine in the home of a local family so you can make deep connections and foster understanding and compassion. Because if done right, travel changes people. And that's what's going to make you stand out in your niche when you're known for designing something extraordinary.

17:37Because honestly, John, there is nothing worse than one more boring yoga retreat. It just drives me crazy. So you want to make sure that it's something different. And you can ask your retreat center, or if you're staying in a boutique hotel, what in that area is extraordinary that you could connect with to add to your retreat to make it stand out? And I'm going to add one other quick thing is that my whole travel philosophy can be summed up in one quote by Mark Jenkins, which I really love. And it goes like this. Adventure is a path. Real adventure, self-determined and self-motivated, often risky, forces you to have firsthand encounters with the world.

18:29The world as it is, not the way you imagine it. Your body will collide with the earth and you'll bear witness. In this way, you'll be compelled to grapple with the limitless kindness and bottomless cruelty of humankind. And perhaps realize that you yourself are capable of both. This will change you and nothing again will ever be black and white. And we need travel, John. That's why we wander. And that's why retreats are so important and why we need to create them so out of the box. Fire Nation, I hope you got shivers because I got shivers with that. And it's so important to realize when you're looking back in your life, you're not going to be thinking about, you know, that car you bought or, you know, that physical product that, you know, you, you spent a lot of money on.

19:21You're going to be thinking about the life experiences that you had, about those trips you took, those retreats that you had, about those life experiences that moved you to your core. But let's talk about another struggle. I mean, it's obviously hard to make money on these retreats, but also how do you get butts in seats? I mean, it can be so tough to get people to actually commit to doing something. And now they have all the excuses in the world, at least in their own mind, to like not travel and X and Y and Z. So give us some real strategies. Absolutely. So one of the important things for filling a retreat is having an extraordinary retreat sales page that puts someone into the experience.

20:04That's critical. Now, when most of us think of sales page, we think of programs and products or live event sales pages that mostly focus on program benefits, which, of course, they should. But a retreat sales page needs to highlight the experience itself. In other words, the location, the food, the activities. You need to literally put someone in the experience. Otherwise, again, it comes across as a workshop. So I'm going to give a few quick marketing suggestions. First, market your retreat to your list, not strangers. Since retreats are intimate, you want to make sure that your peeps are top notch.

20:48You don't want a problem child on your retreat that doesn't know your work and makes trouble the whole time. Believe me, been there, done that. Number two, you want to work at growing your list and following all year long. Because if you do that, your warm audience will fill your retreat with grace and ease. Number three, consider promoting your retreat like you would launch a program or product. So take the time to get everything that you're doing on your promotional calendar, whether it's Facebook Lives, webinars, challenges, a three-day virtual live event, a live workshop. whatever you are doing, whatever actions you're taking to actually sell your retreat.

21:36And point four is start marketing early, especially for international retreats. You've got to do that six to 12 months ahead of time, minimum. This is not a workshop people can sign up for the last minute. The more days you retreat is, the more time you need to market it so that people can carve out time to join you. Fire Nation, you want to get people to your retreat so you can actually give them the transformation, the experiences that you know they want and that you know they need. So you need to follow these principles, follow these elements that Dr. Sherry is walking us through right now.

22:18But at the end of the day, if someone's going to actually embark on this type of project, this type of commitment, Dr. Sherry, they need to know that they can actually profit something from a retreat. So let's just talk real numbers. I'm a big transparency guy. I love transparency. I just love openness. I love talking about numbers. How much can somebody expect to net from a retreat? I love your monthly P &Ls. Thank you. Most folks don't understand how to price a retreat. We constantly get asked, Sherry, how much should I make this trip to Bali? What should it be priced at? Well, I can't answer that.

22:57Pricing is based on hard costs. Once your hard costs are totally determined, then you have to decide how much you want to net per person and add that amount into your pricing. That's the last line item that goes in there. so in other words your pricing has to do with nothing more than the hard costs first so that differs depending on what hotel you're staying at or retreat center now once you have that done you add that net per person now you can net at least 10 000 to 100 000 just from your retreat alone, never mind if your upsell, you know, is a really nicely priced item. In other words, if you monetize your retreat with a follow up program to support folks on their transformational journey, which you should do because otherwise I think it's abandonment, you know, to just do a retreat and then let people flail when they go back into the world again.

24:08So going back to how much should you charge for your retreat? Well, how much do you value the transformation you share? Because that's going to, that's going to determine the final cost. Once you have those hard costs, you have to decide how much your transformation is worth per person for those amount of days that you're working. And you add that in and that's your final price. So it isn't about, oh, I'm just going to throw spaghetti on the wall and the price is whatever everyone else is charging and I'll make whatever the net is. No, that's not how you do it. Fire Nation, real numbers. And I love Dr.

24:48How you share that you love RPNLs because we've been doing that for now 92 months in a row. And it's critical Fire Nation, like it is critical that you know what you're getting into when you're doing this process. So So before we move on to the next and last major part of this interview, is there anything that you want to share from what we just talked about when it comes to potentially maximizing your profit, getting butts in seats, and just overall making it the best experiential experience possible? I think people need to consider their retreat as part of the income producing activities they do in their business, not just something fun, which a lot of people have that mentality.

25:35I'm going to do a retreat and it doesn't matter what I make. I'm just going to have fun at it. That's not what you should be doing in a retreat. Every single item that you do in your business is part of your business plan and your income producing activities. It also needs to be part of the client journey. So it needs to make sense in what you're offering. That's why I say, do you have something afterwards that's an upsell off of that? Or is your retreat part of a year long program? So when you start getting more strategic with your retreats, it makes a lot more sense for your participants. They understand why they should come in the value they're going to get from it, John.

26:16So critical, Fire Nation. And this is why we bring experts on the show to talk about their area of expertise. And Sherry, you have something pretty cool for Fire Nation today. So why don't you share that? Absolutely. As I said, John, it's critical that we're ready and positioned for what I call the post-pandemic retreat rebound. And because people want to travel so badly right now, if you don't have a retreat at the ready, you're really going to miss out. And since, as I said, it does take a good six to 12 months to plan and market your retreat, now is actually the perfect time to be thinking about this.

26:54So here's my suggestion for everyone. I'd love you to mark your calendars right now for June 22nd to the 24th because we have a crazy awesome three-day virtual live event planned called, of course, revving up for the post-pandemic retreat rebound. John is going to have the link for you guys in the show notes. And the reason we're doing this now, John, is because our retreat community has suffered so much from the pandemic. not just our retreat leaders, but our retreat planners, our travel professionals and retreat venues. And normally we do our three day events at 297 USD. But because we want to see everyone planning a retreat and getting back to work, they can name their price as long as they pay a dollar.

27:44And we're doing this because we want our retreat leaders to be committed to coming to the event and getting their retreat planned. so it's going to be awesome there's going to be a ton of content they're going to learn so much it's perfect for our newbies and our experienced retreat leaders and also our retreat planners and venues are invited too we're going to be talking everything retreats like how to design them do them safely legalities facilitating issues pricing creating killer sales pages monetizing your retreat all the good stuff. So they can join us at wanderbiz.co forward slash fire.

28:25And I'm so excited about this because I'm dying to get back to retreats. And I have one booked actually in Morocco for September. So I can't wait. And Fire Nation, this is what I call the ripple effect. I mean, Dr. Sherry is so fired up because she knows she's going to have a ripple effect of people who attend this because she's now going to be arming them with the knowledge, with the ability and with the fire to go off and create amazing retreats of their own. They're going to be experiential, mindset shifting, life transformational, and so much more. So this is why this is such exciting stuff when you can arm people with your zone of genius to go and create amazing ripple effects in this world.