Privacy is a Prerequisite for Democracy. How and Why to Use Signal with Guy Kawasaki

0:02John Lee Dumas:Who's ready to rock today, Fire Nation? JLD here, and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire, brought to you by High Level, the all-in-one sales and marketing platform. Today, we'll be breaking down how privacy is a prerequisite for democracy, how and why to use Signal. To drop these value bombs, I have a guy Kawasaki and EO Fire Studios. Guy is Canva's chief evangelist, remarkable people, podcast host, and author, and formal Apple evangelist, and oh, so much more. And today, we'll be talking about privacy is freedom, not hiding, why A secure communication is now for everyone. Your messages say more than you realize.

0:33John Lee Dumas:Privacy and mental well-being, small steps, real control, and oh, so much more. And a big thank you for Sparcing Studies episode of Goose, Guy, and our sponsors. If you are building a real business, you need real infrastructure. High Level gives you website hosting, funnels, email marketing, automation, calendar booking, payments, and course hosting all on one platform, plus award-winning 24-7 support. Get a 30-day free trial and my full bonus stack that includes a 15-minute private call with me and much more at highlevelfire.com, highlevelfire.com. Fire Nation, are you ready to build something special in the next 50 days?

1:09John Lee Dumas:Check out my free YouTube series, 50 Days to Something, short and strategic step-by-step videos by me, JLD. On day 50, you'll have a valuable asset, and the best part is it's completely free. Visit eofire.com slash YouTube and start day one today. Guy, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. The thing that most people would disagree with, particularly in tech, is that it is okay to fail as long as you pivot fast. And I think that's total bullshit. All right. Well, that's a great way to start. And Fire Nation, Guy and I were chatting a little bit before we hit the record button here.

1:54John Lee Dumas:And I had to thank him for being the ninth ever episode of Entrepreneurs on Fire way back 14 years ago in 2012. And now we're on episode 5128. So Guy is joining me back. Life is good. And we're talking today about how privacy is a prerequisite for democracy and how and why to use Signal. Now - Can I just ask a question before we go? Please do. Who the hell were the other eight? Like who are eight more people more important than me? I want to just know. Well, I won't tell you that they're more important than you by any stretch. It just happened with the scheduling, but it was Seth Godin. It was Tony Robbins.

2:32John Lee Dumas:It was Tim Ferriss. You know, it was some pretty cool people. I got to tell you, I agree. They are more important than me. Well, again, it just was a scheduling thing. It was nothing to do with importance. Whatever you say. Guy, let's talk about how privacy is actually about freedom, not hiding. Because there seems to be this common belief that privacy only matters if you're doing something wrong. So why is privacy actually about protecting freedom, our health, our families, our finances and thoughts, and not about secrecy? The fundamental question is, what is wrong, right? So, you know, the definition of wrong changes.

3:12And what was wrong before is right now, and what's right now is wrong. I mean, so there's that discussion. And there's also, you know, in a real tactical sense, there's a statute of limitations, which says that something that was right before with the next administration might be wrong. So maybe you don't want it up there in the cloud. I think the general test for privacy is that as privacy declines, so does democracy. So very tactical test is you're driving on a freeway and you look up and there's a billboard and the billboard has your text messages. And if you can tell me that there's nothing in your text messages that you would ever care is on that billboard, God bless you.

3:54Use WhatsApp or Apple messages. But if there's ever anything that you would not want to see on that billboard, I suggest you use Signal. And, you know, it doesn't have to be about your drug deal or your gambling or your mistress or, you know, anything like that. It could be, I mean, like some real world examples. Your son is in college. He says, dad, send me the username and password for our Netflix account, right? I mean, yeah, you want that up on the billboard? I don't think so.

4:23John Lee Dumas:Now that kind of moves us into why secure communication is actually for everyone. I mean, that was a great example. And secure messaging, it used to feel like only activists and journalists needed it. So what's changed that now makes this secure communication practical for everyday people? Like that great example that you just gave. Well, like I said, you know, administrations come and go and, you know, what's right and wrong according to law changes. So that was one example. But I don't know about you, but I'm exchanging passwords. Yeah. And stuff with my kids all the time. And, you know, how about this kind of theoretical situation?

5:04So, yeah, I'm coming to Puerto Rico. Oh, you know, I want to take a surfing lesson. And you say, OK, so the best surfing lessons given by the Puerto Rican Ohana Association. And I contact them. I said, OK, I want to schedule surfing. And I'm coming to Puerto Rico. And they say, well, we need your visa card number, expiration date, secret number. And, you know, will you text that to us? It's like, oh, man, you know, you don't have e-commerce set up. No, sorry, we don't. So you've got to text your credit card information. You wouldn't want that on the billboard either.

5:37John Lee Dumas:I really like that visual of the billboard because to me, that just shows you like how exposed to the public and to anybody's eyes it could be. And I want to dive deeper into what you just shared because your messages, I mean, they say more than we realize most of the time. Most people think these casual texts that they're harmless. What kind of information does our everyday messages actually reveal about routines, relationships, beliefs? And Guy, why does that matter? It matters. I mean, at an extreme, in a criminal case. But, you know, I mean, people are just going to cherry pick things. They're not going to take the entire kind of context.

6:17So not to be in a criminal case, but let's say it's a civil case. And, you know, you're going through a messy divorce. You're fighting for child custody. And one day you text your divorce lawyer. he's going to get our kids over his dead body right i mean you mean as a joke or something like that and next thing you know you're in front of the judge and the judge says i have a text message that you said you're going to kill your husband before he gets the kids is that true i don't think you're suitable to have custody of your kids i mean you know that's not too far-fetched

6:50John Lee Dumas:to think that could happen that and it's kind of crazy and maybe we'll talk about this more later but I mean, in the world of AI right now, like you can take a 10 second audio clip from me, for instance. And of course there's thousands and tens of thousands of examples for that from my podcast and your podcast guy, et cetera. And now you can actually have an AI that talks just like you, tonality, diction. And I mean, it's getting to the point too, where it's very soon the video is going to be able to be indistinguishable from the actual person as well. And so now you're giving some potential scammers and some, some individuals who may have malattentions, you're giving them some other data that should be private, like, you know, your routines where you live.

7:31John Lee Dumas:And so now you can make this incredibly likely impersonator where this person's like, I mean, it's just, it just feels like that might actually be this person because how do they know these things? So it must be like this person who this says they're going to be. And then all of a sudden like you're giving this person who you think is them, but it's really a scammer. It's really AI actually. And this is danger, danger, danger zone. Fire Nation is coming quicker than any of us think. And we have a lot more to talk about around this topic when we get back from thanking our sponsors. There are two things I know about you for sure.

8:03John Lee Dumas:You're an action taker and you love to learn. Otherwise, you wouldn't be listening to this podcast. So I'm excited to share another source of inspiration I know you're going to love, Blinkist. Blinkist is an app that takes the world's best nonfiction books and breaks them down into 15 minute reads or listens. So whether you're commuting, working out, or in between calls, Blinkist delivers insights you can apply immediately without the week it takes to read a full book. And get this, there are over 9 ,000 titles available to you on mobile anytime you want so you can get straight to the key ideas and action points, no fluff.

8:35John Lee Dumas:Some of my favorite titles on Blinkist, The Lean Startup by Eric Ries, The One Thing by Gary Keller, The Obstacle is the Way by Ryan Holiday, and so many more. So let's get into a new daily learning habit, one 15-minute session at a time. Turn your spare moments into learning moments with Blinkist. Go to Blinkist.com slash fire to start your free trial and lock in an extra 30 % off today. That's Blinkist.com slash fire. Fire Nation, if you are building a real business, you need real infrastructure. That is why High Level is Entrepreneur on Fire's featured partner. High Level gives you a website builder and hosting, funnels and landing pages, email marketing, appointment scheduling, payment processing, course and membership hosting, and so much more.

9:19John Lee Dumas:Everything you need to succeed, all under one roof. No duct tape, no juggling five platforms, just one clean system for your business and their award-winning 24-7 support has your back when you need it most. When you sign up at highlevelfire.com, you also get my exclusive bonus stack, a 30-day free trial, a private 15-minute call with me, JLD, access to my weekly live office hours, a digital copy of my book, The Common Path to Uncommon Success, my 50 Days to Something execution roadmap, and more. Visit highlevelfire.com and start building your something today. Guy, we're back, and I want to now dive deep into Signal and why Signal works when other tools just frankly don't.

10:04John Lee Dumas:I mean, security only works if people actually use it. So what makes Signal different in terms of simplicity, usability, and trust compared with the other messaging platforms? Well, you know, a lot of people wave their hands about end-to-end encryption. So this means that, you know, from the time the message is sent to its receive, nobody can intercept those magical bits and, you know, read them or listen to them. So Apple can make that case. Meta can make that case. Of course, Signal can make that case. But it's a very, very subtle but deeper issue. So there's two aspects to a message. One aspect is the message itself.

10:43You know, what's the text? What's the audio? What's the video? The other aspect of a message is the metadata. And the metadata is about who, when, why, you know, what time, all this kind of stuff. The sort of like when you see a criminal movie and they subpoena the phone records. When you subpoena the phone records, you don't get the phone call, but you get all the things that can place you at a time and a place. And, you know, you talk to this person right before the next thing you know, the other guy was murdered. So, you know, we're building this circumstantial evidence to prove you were part of the murder plot.

11:19That's metadata. And SIGDL only retains three pieces of metadata, which is when was your account open? When was it last used? And what's your phone number? And let's just say that that's hard to reconstruct, you know, what you're doing on any particular day with any particular person. if that's the only metadata that Signal has. Now, other platforms have much more metadata, and other platforms have definitely shown the willingness to do things to avoid tariffs, if you know what I mean. And other platforms are also motivated by advertising. So in a sense, their entire reason for existence is to look at what you're doing and then sell you ads.

12:04Hmm, that's kind of a weird motivation. And the final thing I would say is that Signal has been independently audited for its encryption and its security and its open source. And open source means that all these nerds all over the world can watch exactly how Signal works and call bullsh** if they're saying it's doing something and it doesn't. Well, I don't think that anything at Meta or Apple is open source and people can check out to see if it's doing what they're saying it's doing. So these are crucial differences between Signal and other messaging platforms.

12:42John Lee Dumas:Let's talk about privacy, Guy. Let's talk about mental well-being. I mean, beyond the technical side, which you just covered, which I think is so important to think about, how does knowing that our conversations are actually private, like how does that impact mental health? How does that impact honesty in the quality of our relationships? You know, I could make the case that if you were worried about privacy, it would definitely affect what you would say and what you would express. Now, this is a really complicated subject because if you have a false sense of privacy, you might overshare. And that is not good.

13:20On the other hand, if you have a sense that there is no privacy, then you might not share at all. So I'm just asking people to think about this, that, you know, where are you on the spectrum? And if you are concerned about privacy, there's no doubt in my mind that you should send text messages with Signal and you should use Proton for email. And we could dive deep into Proton. That's a whole other subject. But, you know, email is, I think, much less secure than messaging on Signal.

13:53John Lee Dumas:Let's talk about small steps, but real control guy, because people, they often feel overwhelmed by digital privacy. I mean, they're hearing us talk. They're like, that makes sense. But I mean, I don't even know where to start. So why is switching to a secure messaging app actually one of the simplest and highest leverage steps that someone can take to actually regain control of both their data and their attention? Simple explanation to that is, you know, just think about all the things that you text. And, you know, as I said, do you want that stuff on a billboard in the worst case scenario? And I mean, bada bing, bada bang, that's all you got to think about.

14:34And the same test applies to your email. Would you like your email to be on that billboard? And boy, I tell you, there's a lot of things I send that, and I'm not a criminal, I'm not a drug dealer, I'm not a trafficker or anything like that, but there's still a lot of stuff that, you know, everybody needs signal. Everybody needs privacy.

14:53John Lee Dumas:So I love the example of the billboard and I get that, but let's go another step for somebody that's listening right now and they think that privacy, it might be, maybe it feels abstract or maybe it feels not urgent. What's one truth, like in addition to that great, you know, billboard visual that we've talked about that they need to hear today about why protecting their communication actually protects their freedom? I would make the case that one of the the foundations of privacy is a person or a organization cannot use what they don't have. So if you make it so people cannot have this information, you never have to sue them to force them not to use it or redact it or, you know, anything.

15:41So like, you know, possession is nine tenths of the law, as they say. So don't give them possession. Don't try to take it back. and I mean, it's kind of like brushing your teeth or flossing, man. Yeah, you know, a dentist can fix your teeth, but it'd be a lot better if you never had the cavity.

15:58John Lee Dumas:I love that, another great analogy. So Guy, Fire Nation's obviously digging what you're saying and they love your personality. They love what you're sharing. What is your call to action for our listeners today? If they want to connect with you, learn more from you, what would you want them to do today? Well, I hope that you are at least curious about Signal. the reason why I have become a signal evangelist and I have no financial, you know, nothing to gain. It's a not-for-profit anyway. So it's purely because I see the decline of safety and security and privacy as an inherent threat to society.

16:35So that's why I'm evangelizing signals. So, you know, step number one is get signal. But if you're still not convinced about why you should get signal, I wrote this book called Everybody Has Something to Hide, and I'm selling it for a grand toll of 99 cents because that is the cheapest you can make a book on Amazon. And, you know, I just want people to read that book to learn why they should use Signal. And then if I convince them why they should use Signal, then the book then continues and explains how to use Signal. So this is, think of it as signal for dummies, except it's not named signal for dummies.

17:15John Lee Dumas:Fire Nation, you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. And hello, you've been hanging out with GK and JLD today. So keep up that heat. And for links of everything that we talked about, visit eofire.com and type guy, G-U-Y in the search bar. The show notes page will pop right up. And also our first episode we did 14 years ago will also pop right up. So give that a listen. You might get some chuckles out of that. and of course check out Guy's book I mean he's dropping so much value here and for 99 cents you get even more value I thought of something let's hear it I could make an offer that you know if you send me an email and use the email address everybody has something to hide at gmail.com send an email there and I don't know say the first 500 people or so I will send you an Amazon link for a free copy of the book.

18:08Because I'm not trying to make money. I'm trying to get people to be more private. So send an email to that. And then now this is US only. I can't help that. That's between you and Jeff Bezos. But you send me an email and the first 500 people, I will send you a link to get a free copy of the book.

18:26John Lee Dumas:That's amazing. Fire Nation, make that happen. Be one of those first 500 to take action. I'm coming to Puerto Rico and you and I and Bad Bunny and Jake Paul can all hang out. We'll even invite Logan Paul too. We'll have him come along. It'll be a blast. So come to Puerto Rico anytime, guy. All right. Thank you very much for having me. Bye-bye. Hey, Fire Nation, a huge thank you to our sponsors and Guy for sponsoring today's episode. And Fire Nation, are you an entrepreneur on fire who's looking to share your amazing message with the world. If yes, we are now accepting guest applications for entrepreneurs on fire.

19:01John Lee Dumas:To learn more about becoming a guest, visit eofire.com slash guest, and we'll catch you there or on the flip side. If you are building a real business, you need real infrastructure. High Level gives you website hosting, funnels, email marketing, automation, calendar booking, payments, and course hosting all on one platform, plus award-winning 24-7 support. Get a 30-day free trial and my full bonus stack that includes a 15-minute private call with me and much more at highlevelfire.com, highlevelfire.com. Fire Nation, are you ready to build something special in the next 50 days? Check out my free YouTube series, 50 Days to Something, short and strategic step-by-step videos by me, JLD.

19:42John Lee Dumas:On day 50, you'll have a valuable asset, and the best part is it's completely free. Visit eofire.com slash YouTube and start day one today.

19:56Thank you.