Quit Stalling and Build Your Brand. You Don't Need an MBA to Crush It In Ecommerce with Ben Leonard

0:01Boom! Shake the room, Fire Nation. JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire. brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals with great shows like the Goal Digger Podcast. Today, we'll be breaking down how to quit stalling and build your brand. You don't need an MBA to crush it in e-commerce. To drop these value bombs, I brought Ben Leonard and EO Fire Studios. Ben built a multi seven-figure brand on a laptop in a cupboard. After three years, he exited for life-changing money. He's here to teach you to do it too. And today, Fire Nation, We'll talk about building a multi-seven-figure e-commerce business.

0:40We'll talk about starting your own brand right now, where you should start. We'll talk about experience. We'll talk about frameworks and a playbook and a step-by-step process to follow and so much more. And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Ben and our sponsors. The Hustle Daily Show, hosted by Juliet Bennett-Ryla, Rob Litters, Ben Berkley, and Mark Dent, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the ideal destination for business professionals. The Hustle Daily Show brings you a healthy dose of irreverent, offbeat, informative takes on business and tech news, like a recent episode on hackers versus casinos, where the hosts talk about MGM Resorts and Caesars Entertainment and the devastating potential of cyber attacks.

1:20Listen to The Hustle Daily wherever you get your podcasts. Ever thought about giving a TEDx talk? It's one of the most powerful ways to share your message with the world and four-time TEDx speaker Taylor Conroy from Thought Leader can help you get there. Visit thought-leader.com slash fire to join Taylor's free training where he teaches you how to land a TEDx talk and spread your message to millions. Ben, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. Hey, JLD. Hey, Fire Nation. It's great to be here. Well, something I believe that I think most people disagree with when it comes to becoming successful is this everyone says to think big reach for the stars all those kind of cliches and although i do think ambition is important and we should have big goals i think we want to focus really granular on the small stuff first the stuff that people say oh that's not gonna scale like for instance with my first brand we used to literally dm people one-to-one on social and over time the compounding effect of the goodwill that you build will begin to make a difference and so I think people really need to go small to begin with in so many aspects of their life and business.

2:35Fire Nation, that's why I say niche your flipping face off. Go small. Go all the way down to a pain point and a niche. It almost hurts to niche that far where you can be the number one solution to a real problem in this world. Today, we're talking about quit stalling and build your brand, Fire Nation. You don't need an MBA to crush it in e-commerce. hello. And as I typically do, Ben, before interviews, I Googled you and I saw there was this Forbes article that says you're a self-confessed dolphin nerd. So I just have to ask, how the heck does a dolphin nerd end up building a multi-seven figure e-commerce business?

3:20Great question. And yeah, I am a self-confessed dolphin nerd. Only these days, I'm not professionally a self-confessed dolphin nerd. So I grew up in the northeast of Scotland, beautiful coastline, lovely mountains, beautiful scenery. And naturally, I got into the environment, nature, that kind of thing. And I particularly got into the marine environment and I became a marine ecologist. And actually, the town I'm from, Aberdeen, is like the oil town of Scotland. It's the oil town of Europe, in fact. So I was working in that industry as like the token tree hugger. I was the guy that had to tell the oil guys that they can't throw chemicals in the ocean.

3:56So they loved me. Although I did like my job, I always felt like there was there was something else for me. And I did nothing about that until one day in 2016, I got really sick with a heart problem. And I was signed off work for about six or nine months, I had to take a cocktail of strong drugs. And I had to stop all my fitness hobbies. And my fitness hobbies, that was that was my meditation, that was my outlet that's what kept me sane and I was I was miserable and I needed something to do and I remember one day I was sadly tidying out my gym bag looking at all the gear that I wasn't going to be able to use and that's when I had an idea and my then girlfriend now wife encouraged me with this idea which was to as a hobby start a fitness brand and improve on my training gear turned out I was pretty good at it and uh three years later we were generating six million dollars in annual revenue.

4:50And I sold that business in late 2019. And so now I'm building more brands and teaching others how to do it too. So a bit different from being a dolphin nerd these days. Well, I love that story and that evolution. And so many people, Ben, never start because they, quote unquote, have no experience. Well, you had zero business experience when you started. How dare you? But seriously, how dare you? A lot of people with no experience, they use that as an excuse, right? They let it hold them back. And I almost did the same because I almost fell for the myth that we live in in society these days, which teaches us that entrepreneurs are other people.

5:31They're people with business degrees or Ivy League educations or mountains of cash that they can start with or people who've come up with some totally new invention that no one's heard of. But that just isn't true. I actually had the idea for my first brand, which was called Beast Gear. I had that idea in 2012. I'd had it at the end of a sweaty CrossFit session with my buddies, but I did nothing about it for like four years. It wasn't until four years later that when I was sick with that heart problem that I actually took action. I had just been stalling and making all these excuses about lack of experience, lack of funds, how I wasn't an entrepreneur.

6:07Entrepreneurship is for other people. and finally it was this life-changing moment that sparked me into action and you know in the end I think you know actually kind of having no business experience really helped me because I had no pre-existing boxes to confine me no preset modes that would limit my thinking I was like a a blank canvas I suppose I think it was like a lot of people with no experience that they really don't know where to start I kind of had an unfair advantage because of my scientific background in ecology, right? Because in science, we have an idea, we're very curious, we test what happens, we look at the results, we tweak something and go again.

6:44So that helped. And the other thing that helped really was passion from my niche that drove me forward. But, you know, I think the reason it didn't hold me back, my lack of experience is just the fact that we live in a level playing field now, like we live in a time where you don't need tons of experience to get started. You know, John, the gatekeepers of entrepreneurship, like the gurus, they don't want people to know that actually they don't need an MBA. All you need is purpose and passion and curiosity. Well, Ben, people like you and myself have been spreading this gospel for some time now.

7:18And I do think you're right. I do think that in some ways, people that actually go down that route, they actually have a disadvantage for a number of reasons. Number one, it takes time to get those degrees. And number two, you're usually learning from people who have never done that thing. And number three, you're usually in debt, which hurts when you're trying to start a business because you've got to pay off those loans. So look at it as an advantage, Fire Nation. And if our listeners right now, Ben, actually want to start their own brand right now, what should they do? Where should they start?

7:50What should they sell? The first thing I think we should do there is actually deconstruct that a bit and define what a brand is because there's lots of definitions of brand and many of them are right. But my favorite is that a brand is a group of products that solves problems for a particular group of people. And so that takes us to people. And that's really where we want to start. People first and then reverse engineer it. It's about who we sell to, not what we sell. And then we're going to solve problems for those people in the form of our products. And when we understand our people, our audience, we're going to understand what their problems are and therefore what we should make or develop to sell to them.

8:29And, you know, I'm a big fan of creating a brand around something you love because there's no one better or more passionate about it to sell it. Plus, like when you deeply understand it, you can resonate with your target audience because you are your target audience. And I think so many people are scratching around trying to figure out what to sell when actually the answer is probably staring them in the face. Sell something that you care about. You know, I decided my first product for my brand B-Skiar when I realized that the jump rope I was using in my boxing and CrossFit training wasn't good enough.

9:03It didn't quite spin how I wanted it to. The adjustment mechanism was too fiddly. And I noticed that the brand identity was poor and I could totally do better. So I would say don't rush to try and just sell something. I would say rush to solve something. look for those annoyances the little irritating things within your passion within your niche where you can see ways to make it better like like for example let's say you love knitting and you notice you go to a knitting group right and there's older people in your knitting group who are having a hard time with their knitting needles because they've got arthritis in their fingers well maybe you can solve that problem making maybe you can make ergonomic knitting needles i don't know i'm making this up ergonomic knitting needles for for older people with arthritis and so you know when you understand what they need and what problems they have you can you can sell more things to them and and create content for them that makes them know like and trust you you know um because that's what it's all about the product is just a means to an end but you want to be selling the solution because like my first brand beast game it wasn't really about selling skipping ropes or or boxing gloves it was it was about helping people get their fitness to the next level, solve their problem, get fantastic gear that was great value for the price.

10:21So yeah, I think that's what it's all about. Product is a means to an end. You, Fire Nation, are selling the solution. Always remember that. Always market to that pain point and how you solve that pain point. And we have a lot to talk about around this topic when we get back from thanking our sponsors. Can you believe we're already in Q4? This year has flown by, but Q4 is an exciting time, and not just because the holidays are right around the corner. Something magical happens when the third quarter ends and the fourth quarter begins. The energy changes. The fourth quarter is where games are won, where champions are made, and in business, it's where sales teams become legends.

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13:21Hiring heroes, let ZipRecruiter make your job easier. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. See for yourself, Go to this exclusive web address to try ZipRecruiter for free, ziprecruiter.com slash fire. Again, that's ziprecruiter.com slash F-I-R-E. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Ben, we're back. How should we, we being Fire Nation, be thinking about our branding and marketing to our specific audience? I guess this kind of builds on where we were left off before. If a brand is a group of products, which solves problems for a group of people, well, branding is how you make people feel and marketing is how you tell people about it so like on paper you could have the best branding in the world but if no one knows about it because your marketing sucks then your brand may as well not exist it's kind of like you know when they say if a tree falls over in a forest does it even make a noise it's kind of like that if your branding is on point but no one's heard of you because your marketing is not very good should your you know you might as well not bother.

14:31And so that is why marketing is more important than branding, I think. But, you know, branding and marketing, it can get confusing because they do overlap because marketing really is the vehicle we use to deliver the branding to the customer. And that all comes back to understanding who your people are, which is why it's so, so important that people build customer avatars. I think oftentimes they hear about this, this idea in branding, marketing oh we need to build customer advertising but they kind of gloss over that step because it's not that exciting they just want to sell stuff but actually it's so so important you'll sell more if you do this because when you deeply understand your customers goals their values their challenges and pain points then we understand how we should actually market to them because we understand what they want and what format they want it in and where they want it do they want blogs or videos or ads or podcasts or PDF guides, are they on Facebook or Twitter or Insta or TikTok or Pinterest?

15:27Then we can create quality content that positions us as an authority and then show up in those places where they are. And we can learn which influencers and micro influencers our audience likes and partner with them, for instance. And that could be really effective because that demonstrates social proof. And, you know, I would say to people, you know, when you're thinking your marketing and your branding is really dial into, you know, ask yourself, put yourself in the shoes of your customer and say, well, what would you find valuable? I tell people often to think of your favorite brands that could be to do with your hobby or your profession, or even like the food products in your cupboards and ask yourself, what do those brands do to you to make you feel a certain way about them?

16:12And how can you apply that to your brand? I think that's so, so important. It's about evoking feelings that are going to make people know, like, and trust you and eventually become a raving fan who will buy all your stuff and part of your tribe who you can nurture and support you as you grow and launch new products. I love having conversations with my customers and potential customers as well. And have those conversations, ask them questions, and then you actually, Fire Nation, can use their words in your marketing. Because if you can connect with potential customers using words that are already in their head before you even talk to them, I mean, that is power.

16:51Now, I want to move to side hustle, Ben, because it's fine to start with. but share with us how we can make our business a little less side hustle and a little more business muscle. I think about this one a lot because I think it's completely understandable and normal to start with a side hustle. It's absolutely fine to start your business on the side of your day job. In fact, that is realistic for most people but ultimately it's about treating yourself and your business with the respect that you and your business deserves which is why I don't think we should ever really call it a side hustle because I think when we call it a side hustle, even if that's what it is, but we're immediately framing it wrong and we're putting it into this little side hustle box that it's never going to break out of.

17:36Instead, we should think of it as a startup, which, yeah, we've got to do this on the side right now because I've still got bills to pay, but it's eventually going to flourish into a fully fledged brand and it's going to replace your income. It's going to replace your job and eventually you're going to be able to sell it for millions of dollars. You know, it comes back to what I said before, actually, about asking how your favorite brands look and feel and behave. Well, they take themselves seriously and you should too. And part of this is putting sound basics into your business from the start.

18:07So even if it is a side hustle that you're doing in the evenings and weekends and maybe sneaking a bit in on your lunch hour, you're taking it seriously. So you're managing your time seriously and you're making sure that you're not constantly running around putting out fires but you're actually dedicating time blocking off time to growing your business creating new uh revenue sources um nurturing relationships with partners you can help you grow your business for instance it comes but down to knowing your numbers from the start like so many people will be inspired by books and podcasts and and videos and they'll just want to get started which is great and it's true that we do kind of like fly by the seat of our pants when we get started but you still gotta get the basics right with your numbers and actually understand are my products profitable are they in demand have i really validated them do i have enough margin that i'm going to be able to market this product is the roi high enough that i can actually order more inventory and keep growing this business or or is it just going to crash because the number one reason the businesses fail is they just run out of cash because the owners were very excited and they might have a cool product but they didn't know their numbers so you gotta know your numbers and manage your cash flow and manage your overheads and don't splash cash on fancy things you don't need.

19:21So I think that's a very long way of saying take it seriously from the start and don't frame it as a side hustle, but just frame it as a startup. So Fire Nation, this can be powerful when you have that framework to follow. And it's kind of interesting because you just put a lot of your knowledge, Ben, into a specific framework, into a playbook so that we can follow along in the form of your book. Tell us more. Sure. Yeah. Well, the book is called Quit Stalling and Build Your Brand. And, you know, really, it's the book that I wish existed as I was building my first brand. And, you know, I decided to write it when I was fed up of the gurus who actually haven't been there and done it.

20:01And the lack of clear guidance that's available in this space for new new entrepreneurs and seasoned entrepreneurs. So the book is a classic kind of roadmap of timeless business principles, but applied to e-commerce brand building. So what it's not is it's not a book that's focused on like one platform that's going to go out of date in a few months. I believe that this book will still add value for entrepreneurs 10 years from now. I want it to be one that somebody gets and then revisits once a year. You know, the platforms, the channels, the tech will change, but the timeless principles, they will not change.

20:37they will be steady forever and it's a book that takes you from your initial idea for a brand all the way through product development launch growth and finally exit and it's for someone who's got an idea but has been stalling and making excuses or for someone who's actually already doing really well you might be already be doing millions in revenue but you need a guide who's been there and done it to walk by your side down the path and keep you on the right track and so that's the book and I'm really proud of it. I've taken 14 months to write it and it's finally coming out for people to buy. Well, let's get the details.

21:10What is your call to action for Fire Nation today? Yeah. So the book is out now on all the usual platforms. For most people, that's going to be Amazon. But to get the bonuses, you must, must go to quitstallingbook.com slash EO Fire, where you can get a free entrepreneurship mindset mini course, a free e-commerce hacks ebook. And yeah, that's full of the tips of the smartest, nimble things I did to scale my first brand to$6 million in annual revenue and then sell it. And that's all at quickstallingbook.com slash EO Fire. Fire Nation, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with.

21:50You've been hanging out with BL and JLD today. So keep up that heat. And for links to everything we talked about, visit EOFire.com. Just type Ben in the search bar and the show notes page will pop up as well again as links to everything that Ben just mentioned. And Ben, I want to say thank you, brother, for sharing your truth, knowledge, and value with Fire Nation. For that, we salute you and we'll catch you on the flip side. Thanks, JLD. Hey, Fire Nation, a huge thank you to our sponsors and Ben for sponsoring today's episode. And Fire Nation, successful entrepreneurs are great at three things, productivity, discipline, and hello, focus.

22:26That's why I created the Mastery Journal so that you can master these three things in just 100 days. And we're talking step-by-step. Visit themasteryjournal.com. And I'll catch you there or on the flip side. The Hustle Daily Show, hosted by Juliet Bennett-Ryla, Rob Litters, Ben Berkley, and Mark Dent, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the ideal destination for business professionals. The Hustle Daily Show brings you a healthy dose of irreverent, offbeat, informative takes on business and tech news, like a recent episode on hackers versus casinos, where the hosts talk about MGM Resorts and Caesars Entertainment and the devastating potential of cyber attacks.

23:02Listen to The Hustle Daily wherever you get your podcasts. Ever thought about giving a TEDx talk? It's one of the most powerful ways to share your message with the world. And four-time TEDx speaker Taylor Conroy from Thought Leader can help you get there. Visit thought-leader.com slash fire to join Taylor's free training where he teaches you how to land a TEDx talk and spread your message to millions. Thank you.