Sorry But Impostor Syndrome is Not Your "Super Power" with Valerie Young

0:28Who's ready to rock today, Fire Nation. imposter syndrome, how Valerie got interested in this topic, how Barbara Corcoran and Seth Godin disagree with her, and oh, so much more. And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Valerie and our sponsors. If you've ever considered launching a show on YouTube, I may have the solution for you after launching a very successful show on YouTube in 2024, MicroStrategy Today. I've learned a lot on what it takes to create a successful show and have launched a one-on-one mentorship program called YouTube 100. If you want to jump on a call and learn more about this program, shoot me an email, john at eofire.com.

1:03This is the year of YouTube. Let's go. Valerie, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. I would say, John, especially related to imposter syndrome. There is this new narrative out in the entrepreneurial world that says imposter syndrome is a good thing, it's a badge of honor, and it is our superpower. And I completely disagree with that train of thought. Fire Nation, I'm sorry, but imposter syndrome is not your superpower. And we'll be talking all about that today with Dr. Valerie Young. So let's just get into the core, the thesis, the theme of today's interview with what exactly is imposter syndrome?

1:53The original term, John, was imposter phenomenon. It was coined in 1978 by two psychologists, Pauline Clance and Suzanne Imes. And it's popularly known in the culture as imposter syndrome. But essentially what they found and hundreds and hundreds of studies have confirmed is that a lot of people, men and women, internationally, cross-culturally, deep down have this belief that we're really not as intelligent, capable, competent, talented, qualified as everyone thinks we are. and that we have just somehow managed to fly under the radar undetected and we are going to be found out. Well, Fire Nation, we're going to be talking about this topic in depth because it has a big impact on a lot of people who maybe think about this in a different way.

2:36And I want to know how you, Dr. Valerie, got interested in this topic. Really very firsthand. I was sitting in a class. I was a doctoral student at the University of Massachusetts, where my mom, by the way, was working as a second shift custodian at the time. Somebody brought in the paper by Clance and Imes and started describing how all these bright, capable, competent women at the time, they thought it was mostly women, felt like they were in over their head and they were going to be found out. And I just instantly identified. So I did my doctoral research on a similar topic. And then I turned it into a fancy term as an educational intervention, which means I developed a full day workshop.

3:14And I just been running with that ever since. A little goodwill hunting moment for you there. And I think people from the Massachusetts area might understand that's a little more than others. But I do want to dive into the imposter syndrome a little deeper because I want to know where does it come from? Where does the imposter syndrome originate from? You know, if I was a psychologist, which I'm not, I would say it comes from childhood messages, which indeed it can, you know, certain expectations or messages from family. You know, you're the kid who comes home with four A's and one B, and all they want to know is where that B come from, right?

3:52You can grow up feeling like, you know, you have to be perfect. Other kids had great grades and got no praise at all, you know, and then some kids got way too much praise. So there's many ways we can kind of, you know, do a deep dive into childhood messages, but I'm not a big fan of it. It's not one thing, it's your mother. We didn't grow up in a vacuum. There are situational factors. Like there's a reason why students as a segment of the population are much more susceptible to imposter feelings, right? Their knowledge and intellect is being literally tested and graded day in and day out. People in STEM fields are more vulnerable.

4:28People in very information dense, rapidly changing fields are more vulnerable. and their societal factors. When you belong to any group for whom there are stereotypes about competence or intelligence, whether it's based on age, gender, race, disability, you're going to be more susceptible to imposter feelings. So there's no one source, John, but at the core, my view is that fundamentally it comes from our unrealistic, unsustainable expectations internally about what it means to be competent. What would you say to people that say the imposter syndrome is just low self-esteem? There has been some studies that have found a connection between imposter syndrome and self-esteem.

5:10On the other hand, it's been found to impact up to 82 % of people. And I find it hard to believe that 82 % of people are struggling with low self-esteem. So to me, it's not a fancy term for low self-esteem. And I also want to say, I see costs and consequences for imposter syndrome as being not just impacting individuals, but it has an impact on your company, your business, your organization as well, in terms of retention, advancement, productivity, innovation, health and wellness. So it's not just this personal kind of self-esteem issue. You've spoken at hundreds of organizations. We're talking Google, Pfizer, Coinbase, JP Morgan, Harvard, NASA, even the NBA.

5:56which one was your favorite? Well, I did get floor tickets to the Celtics. They're only the world champions. I mean, let's go. Yeah, that, that, that was pretty amazing. You know, oddly enough, my favorite audience was 3000 people at the national conference for romance writers of America. And the reason it blew every stereotype I had, I don't read romance, But there was a lot of PhDs there, a lot of people who are doing deep dives into history for historical romance. And it was just fascinating to see the diversity in that field. Did you get to meet Danielle Steele? I did not. What was your least favorite?

6:42I don't know that I had. You do. You're just too nice to say. And that's okay. I just had to try and see if you'd come out with something. I don't know if I'd least favorite. Let me tell you a situation. I was speaking to faculty at a university and at the end, this professor came up and he said, what would you say if there was somebody who you worked with who really is an imposter? And I said, well, I'd have to understand what you mean by that. And he said, well, everybody thinks this guy is really smart, but he's not. He just works really hard. I said, is he successful? And he said, yes, very.

7:14I said, then who cares? Who cares? But when you're in academic culture, there's like this premium on being quote unquote smart when effort is going to trump smart any day of the week. Fire Nation, Dr. Valerie. She's just a very nice person. She doesn't want to call anybody out, any company. I get it. I totally get it. So we'll move on as soon as we get back from thanking our sponsors. Let's talk YouTube. Have you ever considered launching a show on YouTube or do you currently have one that's struggling to gain traction? I may have the solution for you. After focusing on audio for 13 years, I launched my first YouTube show in late 2024 and have seen fantastic results.

7:55Over 12 ,000 subscribers, every show getting well over 10 ,000 views, all 100 % organic, zero dollar spent on promotion or advertising. That is the beauty of YouTube. If you create the right content with the right cadence, YouTube will make sure it gets in front of the right people. My show is called MicroStrategy today and I'm having a blast creating content on a daily basis because it's on a topic I love about a company that I truly admire. What excites you? What fires you up? If you want to launch a show around that passion or improve your current one, I'm launching an exclusive coaching program called YouTube 100, where in 100 days, I will mentor you one-on-one and together we will create a show that you love and that's successful.

8:38I hired the best mentors when I first started and have learned so much along the way. I'm ready to help you ignite your show and let YouTube do the heavy lifting of building a meaningful audience that will allow you to grow and monetize your show in ways you might not currently think possible. If you want to jump on a call and learn more about this program, shoot me an email, john at eofire.com. Put YouTube 100 in the subject line and we'll schedule a time to chat, j-o-h-n at eofire.com. This is the year of YouTube. Let's go. Dr. Valerie, Barbara Corcoran, Seth Godin, and many others, They say the imposter syndrome is actually a good thing.

9:18You disagree with them. Tell us more. I do. The reasons they say it's a good thing, they say it means you're learning. Well, are we saying, Seth, that you have to feel inadequate to be learning? I don't think so. They also say it's a good thing, especially Barbara Corcoran would say, you know, it's a good thing because it motivates us to work harder and she wants folks who are going to work hard. Well, I don't want my motivation to work hard from trying to outrun the no-talent police, number one. Number two is the research shows that that might work for some people, but women are less propelled by self-doubt.

9:54Women are more likely to step back in the face of self-doubt than they are to kind of push forward. The third reason they say it's a good thing is that it keeps us humble. And I have to tell you, I've been doing this for 40 years, John, and I have yet to meet a single woman who has said to me, you know, I think I'm going to keep my insecurity and my self-doubt and my imposter feelings because it keeps me humble. Like never. I think this, the message is that you can either be an arrogant jerk or you can keep your imposter syndrome. I think it's a false choice, John. I want to introduce folks to a, I think a healthier choice, which is to be what I call a humble realist.

10:32Somebody who is genuinely humble, but has never experienced imposter feelings. They are no more intelligent, capable, competent than the rest of us. The only difference between them and folks who have imposter feelings is in the exact same situation where I might feel like an imposter, right? Making a presentation, going on a job interview, meeting a big client for the first time. They are thinking different thoughts, specifically about, they have a realistic understanding of what it means to be competent. They have a healthy response to failure, mistakes, constructive feedback, and they understand, John, that a certain amount of fear and self-doubt is just part of the achievement journey.

11:10Fire Nation is full of entrepreneurs, Dr. Valerie. So what do we as entrepreneurs need to know about the imposter syndrome? In many ways, John, I think the best of entrepreneurial thinking is also humble realist thinking. To be a successful entrepreneur, you need to seek out information. You need to seek out constructive feedback that's going to make you continue to get better. To be a successful entrepreneur, it's all about, I mean, sure, you can be crushingly disappointed if the project fails, you don't get the big sale. But as long as you can, you know, look at the learning value of that and take that away from it, then it's all good.

11:50You know, people who are entrepreneurs, you know, their mantra is half ass is better than no ass. they don't mean do a bad job but you know they mean get version one out the door and you can course correct as you go along so you know that really speaks to having that realistic notion about what it means to be competent that you're not going to know 150 starting out or ever right it's the equivalent of trying to get to the end of the internet you're always going to need help from other people um you're not going to do everything perfectly and that's real life that's real life. And I actually love the quote by Reid Hoffman is that if you waited to ship something until it was close to perfect, you waited way, way too long, which is such a struggle for most people.

12:35But now what do we do if we experience the imposter syndrome? What is your advice? Three things, really. The first one is to, I mean, I think it's been over-psychologized. I think we need to step back and look at the perfectly good reasons why you or others might have imposter feelings. In other words, to normalize it, to zoom out, get the bigger view from 20 ,000 feet and go, well, sure. Why wouldn't I feel this way? I'm the first generation of my family to go to college or be a professional success, or I'm the only person with a disability in my organization, or I'm a student or whatever it might be to do less personalizing and more contextualizing.

13:14The next thing is to reframe competence, reframe failure, mistakes, setback, constructive feedback, and reframe fear. Again, to adopt that mindset of a humble realist. And the third thing, John, is to keep going regardless of how you feel. In other words, so often people wait until they feel more confident to launch their business, to grow their business. And that's not how confidence works. You have to change your thoughts first, even though you might not believe the new thoughts, then start acting like somebody who does believe the new thoughts. And over time, the confidence will catch up. Valerie, you shared so much value today.

13:56We talked about the imposter syndrome. We talked about what Barbara Corcoran and Seth Godin think about it and what you think about that in results. We also talked about what entrepreneurs need to know. So give us one thing that you want to make sure our listeners really get, that we really understand from our entire conversation today, go. I would say that this is not all about you. When you hold back or if it's people on your team who are holding back or playing small or maybe burning out from overworking, over preparing to, again, outrun the no talent police, it's not just costly to you, but everybody loses when bright, talented, capable people play small.

14:36I love that. And Fire Nation, don't be that person that looks back and says, I was playing small. You don't want to be that person. Valerie, if Fire Nation's resonating with what you're saying, if they're really just wanting to learn more from you, from your work, what is your call to action for our listeners today? It's pretty easy, John. They just go to impostersyndrome.com, a domain I got in 1995. Wow, you snagged that. That is a worthy domain. When they get there, what is your recommendation? What do they do? You know, it depends what you're looking for. There's tons of great articles in the resource section.

15:12We license and train people to speak on this topic, to use my point of view and my Rethinking Impostor Program. And we license coaches. And we have a program called the Impostor Syndrome Informed Coach, because this is such an issue for people really at the top of their game and people who could go further were it not for imposter feelings. Dr. Valerie Young thank you for joining us today because Fire Nation realizes that they're the average of the five people they spend the most time with and Fire Nation you've been hanging out with V-Y and J-L-D today so keep up that heat and for links to everything we talked about visit eofire.com type Valerie in the search bar that show notes page will pop right up and oh by the way we did an episode back on October 21st 2014 that I'll link up in the show notes as well that was unbelievable that's 11-ish years ago So we'll see what we were talking about then.

16:05And it was a fun conversation. I can promise you that. And I just want to say, Valerie, thank you for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your value with Fire Nation today. For that, we salute you and we will catch you on the flip side. Thank you, John. Hey, Fire Nation, a huge thank you to our sponsors and Valerie for sponsoring today's episode and Fire Nation. Over the last decade, I've interviewed more than 4 ,000 of the world's most successful entrepreneurs. and I created a revolutionary 17-step roadmap to your financial freedom and fulfillment, I put it all into my first traditionally published book, The Common Path to Uncommon Success, personally endorsed by Seth Godin and Gary Vaynerchuk.

16:42The Common Path to Uncommon Success is the step-by-step guidance that you need to achieve the lifestyle of your dreams. Visit UncommonSuccessBook.com and I'll catch you there or on the flip side. If you've ever considered launching a show on YouTube, I may have the solution for you after launching a very successful show on YouTube in 2024, MicroStrategy Today. I've learned a lot on what it takes to create a successful show and have launched a one-on-one mentorship program called YouTube 100. If you want to jump on a call and learn more about this program, shoot me an email, john at eofire.com.

17:17This is the year of YouTube. Let's go.