The Dynamic Duo: JLD and Guy Kawasaki: An EOFire Classic from 2022

0:01Boom! Shake the room, Fire Nation. JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire. brought to you by High Level, the all-in-one sales and marketing platform. On today's classic episode, we'll be breaking down the dynamic duo JLD and Guy Kawasaki. And Guy Kawasaki is the chief evangelist of Canva and the host of the Remarkable People podcast. He was the chief evangelist of Apple and is the author of 15 books. And today we talk about how to win, you have to be the number one solution to a real problem in this world. Also that you have to find somebody currently where you want to be in about a year from now.

0:36And that being good is not enough. Be remarkable and owe so much more. And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Guy and our sponsors. Fire Nation, success isn't a solo journey. It's about who you surround yourself with. That's why I built the Freedom Circle, a powerful community of entrepreneurs ready to support, inspire, and share the ideas that move you forward. Visit freedom-circle.com to learn more. Are you ready for the ultimate all-in-one platform for entrepreneurs, marketers, coaches, and agencies. Build funnels, automate follow-ups, manage clients, and even white label your own software.

1:15Say hello to our featured partner, High Level, and visit highlevelfire.com to start your free trial today. So I go to Stanford, I graduate, I get into law school. I go to law school, I quit after two weeks, And I thought, holy, this is this is our key time, seppuku time, you know, so like, you know, I've 2000 years of my my ancestors have worked in sugarcane fields, et cetera, et cetera, to get me to law school. And you little shit, you quit after two weeks. And so it was a big deal for me to quit. And it sounds like it's a big deal for you. Yeah, I'll tell you my story real quick is that I quit.

1:58And then I said, you know, I know that my dad, who's a lawyer, is going to be so devastated that I need to tell him in person because I wanted to be a man about it. But then I had to leave. I had to just get out. So I had a four month trip to India booked the day after I told him. so the morning the morning came for me to tell my father who you know is a lawyer and he was telling all his law buddies forever my son's in law school he'll join my practice and I didn't chicken out a hundred percent but I knew that if I started telling him that I was dropping out of law school that I wouldn't find the right words so I wrote it all out on a piece of paper sat down next to him I handed him this paper I said read this in full before you say a word and he was had no idea what he was about to get into.

2:49He read it. And I kid you not, guy, like he tells me this story to this day because I was there too. I saw it. Blood started coming out of his right ear lobe, just started dripping down because his blood pressure exploded to that level. Reading this letter. And I knew it was going to affect him to a major way. Not quite having blood coming out of his right ear, which happened. I saw it. Um, but he handed me back the letter. He's like, well, what's your plan now? I'm like, I'm off to India for four months. Peace. And I walked out the door cause I couldn't, I knew I couldn't have a conversation with him because there was nothing good going to come with it.

3:28We were going to yell at each other. We were going to say things that we regretted. So I just, I walked out the door and I left. Um, and I was in India for four months and I did not communicate with him like via anything. Like my, my mother let him know that I was okay, but I was doing, I was doing eat, pray, love in India. And, um, you know, and again, I was an officer in the army for eight years. I did a 13 month tour of duty in Iraq. I still am telling you the most courageous thing I ever did was hand my father that letter that I dropped out of law school. And what's your relationship with him now?

4:04The best, the best, like the best of friends. And it was fine when I got back from India. I just knew that he needed that time. He needed that time away from me because he was disappointed in me. Nothing that I could say was going to fix that for, you know, except for time. And then when I decided a number of year later, by the way, a number of years later to launch Entrepreneurs on Fire, he was my number one fan. He, and he has been ever since. And, you know, I've been doing this podcast for 10 years now. And to this day, whenever he meets anybody like brand new, he tries to convert them into a listener of my show.

4:45He's an apostle. Yes. It did not, not day one, but it happens. Huh? Well, my father had a different reaction. He basically said, it's okay, son, as long as you make something of your life by your mid-20s? Well, my reaction is, well, why didn't you tell me that before?

5:08Anyway, so my first question for you, okay? So you talk about, you know, make this diagram with this overlap of passion and success. How about you introduce a third sliver of this Venn diagram, and it's, you know, what you feel passionate about, what you could do well, and what's viable. Don't you need to add the viability variable? Because you may love something and do it well, but not be able to make a living doing it. You see, Guy, just like you wish your dad had talked to you before you made the decision to drop out of law school, I wish I had talked to you before I wrote that book. I mean, obviously, that is something that has to be part of the equation.

5:52I mean, it is something that I do address later in the book where I talk very clearly about, listen, if what you're doing is not the number one solution to a real problem in this world, it will fail. And so I'm very clear about that. It's not the number two or the number 10 solution. It has to be the number one solution to a real problem in this world. then you'll win because people guy that I found in my experience will beat a path to the door of the person who has the number one solution to their real world problem and they'll ignore the second best solution to infinity because who wants the second best solution when they can get the best solution to their problem but that's why I'm so key and that's what chapter two is all about in my book is it's got to be niche you got to niche your face off until you can honestly look in the mirror and say, this is the number one solution to a real problem in this world.

6:56Well, if you write another book, send me the manuscript. Count on it, brother. I'm going to ask you to read the book, give me recommendations, and write the foreword. So I'm going to bring back this video, and I'm going to hold your feet to the fire on that. Done. Hurry up, though. Love it. So you brought up the N-word, and so now I'm going to ask you advice as opposed to information. So my podcast is called Remarkable People, and I have people from Jane Goodall, Margaret Atwood, Waz, Roy Yamaguchi, the restaurateur, Christy Yamaguchi, the skater, Ronnie Lott, you know, down the line, Angela Duckworth, Seth Godin, everybody.

7:43Now, do you think – I was reading your book and I thought, you know, maybe I'm not niched enough. That John Lee Dumas says you've got to really have this niche. So here I am interviewing remarkable people across all kinds of careers and interests and, you know, whatever. Maybe I'm too broad. So what do you think? I don't think so at all, and I'll tell you why. You are Guy Kawasaki. You are somebody who has access to the people you just mentioned. That is a massive niche in and of itself. When you can have access to the top 1 % of 1 % of performers, that's a micro niche, brother, because nobody else has access to those people that you mentioned.

8:28Nobody else. And by the way, did Ronnie Lott mention the time that he was in a football game and he broke his finger and they said, hey, you can't play the rest of the game or we're going to take your finger off? And they took the finger off. Did that come up? He took his finger off. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, I started with that question. That guy's an animal. I remember my favorite when I was growing up. I used to play this Nintendo game called Tecmo Bowl. And he was so good in that game. His speed for the San Francisco 49ers on defense was like a 99 out of 100. He's like the fastest person on the game.

9:04So I would always use him on defense. And it was like almost unfair. Like Ronnie Lott was so good, but I hope that answers your question fully. So if there's somebody that comes to me, by the way, because people join my podcasting course all the time. And they're just like, John, I'm going to interview the world's most successful entrepreneurs about what makes them awesome. And I'm like, A, how are you going to access those people? B, if you do, like, you're just going to be asking them the same question everybody else is asking them because that's the questions you get asked over and over again.

9:35That's a broad, vague topic. but when you're Guy Kawasaki, your podcast is called The Remarkable People and you're having that list of Steve Wozniak, Ronnie Lott, those other people you mentioned. That is a micro niche podcast that just doesn't exist. You're one of one, brother. You are one of one. Well, I just want to show you a willingness to learn that you're making more money with your podcast than I am. But we're both in the HubSpot podcast network, so we're doing good. Okay, okay. So I would love to learn. You have a very, first of all, how the hell you do one podcast a day is beyond Thunderdome.

10:16That is Tina Turner. Holy shit. You have got to be freaking kidding me. Don't even enter that thought into your brain about me doing that. Anyway, this is my seventh podcast today right here. I see you are crazy, bro. Oh, yeah. That's right. I sent you a screenshot. That's right. You saw that. That was my, that's my dad. I saw that and I thought, man, is he nuts? Am I nuts? I'm getting to hang out with people like you. I mean, what else am I going to do? Sit by my pool and look at the Caribbean ocean? I mean, I do that enough, believe me. All right. So you get literally thousands of remarkable entrepreneurs.

10:57And I want to know, what's the pattern? What pattern recognition have you figured out about successful entrepreneurs? Honestly, I want to go back to something we already talked about because it is true. It's the one key truth that I was able to base the entire book around that I wrote, which is they have figured out a way to create the number one solution to a real problem in this world. That is across the board. You can really break down what they've done and they become the number one best at that one thing. And even to tell you my own story real quick is for entrepreneurs on fire, bro, I was this close to launching a weekly podcast that was going to be like every other show that was out there.

11:41But I just knew I had the foresight that it was going to fail because I was a bad interviewer. I didn't know how to host. I didn't know how to do anything. The technical side, I was clueless. And I said, well, what can I do to make it the best? And I said, well, if I do a daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs, the day that I launch guy, it will be the best daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs. It will also be the worst daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs. It's going to be the only daily podcast interviewing entrepreneurs about their amazing stories. The only, and that was the only reason that I got my initial momentum and traction.

12:22Wow. That's like me saying, I am the best 67 year old surfer who took up surfing six years ago in Santa Cruz. That's a niche, brother. I own that niche. You're the best. You're the best. So I have a suggested guest for you. Oh, I love it. Maybe she's already been on. Multiple times probably. Let's hear it. Okay. The founder of Poo-Pourri. Poo-Pourri. You know what Poo-Pourri is? I have an idea from the name, but I'm going to have to have you say it out loud. Okay. So first of all, I mean, you described owning a niche and solving a real world problem, right? Right. This may sound facetious, but here we go.

13:06So Susie Batiste started this company where she sells this toiletry that you pour into the toilet before you poop and it creates a seal on top of the water. So after you poop, the smell is not emitted into the bathroom. She owns that niche. Oh my God, you just made my fiance Kate so happy and she doesn't even know it yet. She is going to be so happy. I would love to interview that person. That is a fantastic niche. And it's one of those things too, where you're like, that makes all the sense in the world. I mean, that's just, it makes all the sense in the world. And that's another theme, by the way, Guy, that like over and over again, I've now interviewed 3 ,721 people.

13:52the theme is over and over again it's just like in hindsight yeah that's so obvious but it takes that person to come up with the idea that's the genius so i'm gonna seriously i'm gonna make you please do love her i will interview her in a second i mean if she comes guy kawasaki approved like i'm not even gonna put her through any kind of process i'm gonna say here's the booking link please let me know when it works for you well i have another for you then i i know a woman named uh sarah fry she owns the niche of pumpkins she sells more pumpkins than anybody in america amen so she owns that you're in that okay pumpkin patch baby let's do it i'm from maine so we have all that cool stuff up there during the holidays we had the pumpkin patches and carving pumpkins my mother used to make pumpkin seeds used to dry them out and like real pumpkin pie.

14:50Like I love all that stuff. And Fire Nation, you're going to love what Guy and I have in store for you when we get back from thanking our sponsors. Okay, let's talk about a platform that's completely changing how entrepreneurs are running their business. And they are also our featured partner, High Level. If you're an entrepreneur, coach, agency, or a course creator looking to grow faster and smarter, High Level is the all-in-one platform that replaces your entire tech stack. Seriously, think ClickFunnels, Calendly, MailChimp, Kajabi, and even your CRM all rolled up into one powerful white label solution.

15:24You can build funnels, send SMS and email campaigns, schedule appointments, manage pipelines, run memberships, and even launch your own branded mobile app. It's drag and drop simple, incredibly customizable, and built for serious growth. My favorite part, you can resell high level under your own brand. That means recurring revenue, loyal clients, and total control. So whether you're tired of duct taping tools together or ready to start offering high value services with ease, High Level is your unfair advantage. On top of it all, their support team is second to none and has your back every step of the way.

15:57Seriously, every question that pops up, they will have your answer waiting. And if you visit my special partnership link, you'll get a free trial. So visit highlevelfire.com to start your free trial and see why thousands of businesses are switching. That's highlevelfire.com, where marketing, sales, and automation finally come together. High level, join the revolution. Fire Nation, let me drop a truth bomb. The biggest bottleneck holding most entrepreneurs back isn't lack of ideas, tools, or hustle, it's lack of connection. And when I scaled my business to eight figures and mentored thousands of entrepreneurs, I saw the same thing again and again.

16:35People trying to do it alone, and that's why I created the Freedom Circle. You've heard me end every episode of Entrepreneurs on Fire by saying you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. That's not just a quote, it's the reality of success. The Freedom Circle instantly becomes your family of five and then some. It's a community of driven entrepreneurs ready to pour ideas, connections, and support into every part of your journey. So Fire Nation, if you're ready to level up and finally create freedom on your terms, head to freedom-circle.com to learn more. That's freedom-circle.com.

17:36or Warren Buffett. So there's so many people, even like today's world, like, you know, maybe the most known and sought after entrepreneur, at least in my space, and especially with NFTs and cryptocurrency blowing up might be Gary Vaynerchuk. And I hear people say over and over again, oh, if I could only have Gary Vaynerchuk be my mentor, then I would be successful. and I'm like well do you want to run an 850 person advertising agency in downtown New York City they're like no and like I'm like do you want to run one of like the world's largest discords while you're creating doodle NFTs that you're selling to the world and everything they're like no I want to do something this is something completely different that I want to do and I'm like, well, Gary's the best at doing what Gary has done.

18:28Guy's the best at doing what a guy's done. Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, Mark Cuban, those guys have all become the best at doing what they do. But man, Mark Cuban couldn't tell me a single piece of advice, like technically in the podcasting space that would probably be very helpful to me because he's never done a podcast from scratch. I mean, he's in the whole broadcast.com thing. I get that. But I mean, the point is you need to find somebody right now who is currently where you want to be in about a year's time from now. So for me back in 2012, I was like, I want a successful business podcast. That's what I want.

19:07I want to be the host of that. So I went out and I found a successful business podcast host. Her name was Jamie Masters. She'd been doing it for about a year, year and a half at that point. And she was the perfect business mentor for a lot of reasons. Number one, she wasn't like insanely crazy popular like Gary Vaynerchuk. So it wouldn't have cost me a million dollars or, you know, infinity because Gary won't mentor people one-on-one. So that's not even possible to get her as a mentor. Number two, she had recently, relatively recently done exactly what I wanted to do, launch a business podcast.

19:44So her advice was not just good, but it was relative. Like it actually still applied to what I was looking to do, build a business podcast. Her contacts actually made sense for what I was looking to build in my world. So the people she was able to introduce me to for a website, for media hosting, for a mastermind that I ended up joining through her recommendation. my first ever speaking gig was because she was able to say, well, Hey, here's a guy doing something really novel and new, and he's not necessarily doing it great right now, but again, he's bringing some new energy to the space. Check it out.

20:24All because I found somebody who was currently where I wanted to be in about a year's time, like flexible, like give or take on that. Maybe it was 18 months, maybe it was nine months, but somewhere around there where what they've done is recent enough so that it still applies to you in your journey. And that's going to be the game changer. Okay, John, I sort of got, that is just freaking genius. Thank you, man. So the next time, which happens almost every day, somebody asked me to mentor them and say, well, do you want to be a 67-year-old semi-retired podcaster who hasn't figured out how to monetize it?

21:07Is that your goal? But who's a hell of a surfer? You got to add that part in. No. Hell of a surfer. That's not true either. For a 67-year-old in Santa Monica.

21:22I'm looking at Puerto Rico right now. Oh, we got some great surfing down here, bro. They filmed Endless Summer right down here in Puerto Rico in this town called Rincon. It's gorgeous. And if you ever come to Puerto Rico, I'm putting you up in my guest suite. It's the best view in the entire southeastern part of the islands. You're VIP, brother. Oh, okay. I'm there. And bring your surfboard, by the way, because my neighbor is a fantastic surfer. He's actually from the Philippines. He's a fantastic surfer. He knows every break on the island. He will take you wherever you want to go. Well, but that kind of contradicts your mentor advice because that would be like equivalent equivalent of hanging around with Elon Musk and Steve Jobs.

22:09I need someone who's a year ahead of me surfing, not the world's greatest. I can't go surfing with Kelly Slater. I want to go surfing with someone 66 years old. That's a good point. That's a good point. Who's been surfing eight years. That's a good point. We'll get his seven-year-old son to make it happen. Exactly, exactly. Exactly. So do you think when people say, you know, heroes, jobs, and musts, do you think they're hurting themselves? When they set them as heroes? Yeah. So I am a big believer in the BHAG theory, which is big, hairy, audacious goals. I really do love that. Yeah. Yeah. And I love that concept.

22:52I definitely strive for it myself. I think we need people out there in the world like that. And for me, I think you can have kind of like the stepladder effect where you say, you know what I need as a direct mentor, somebody who I can talk to someone who's currently where I want to be in about a year's time, who's going to mentor me, who's going to look at my content, at my podcast, at my product, at my service, at my app and give real advice because they actually have done this actual work. and that's like step ladder number one. And then I think you can have a couple steps above that where you do have those people where it's like, okay, well, after I accomplish everything that I want to accomplish in step one here, this is what that next step is gonna be.

23:33And by the way, if I do everything right over the next 10, 30, 50 years, this is what a moonshot would look like. This is what a big, hairy, audacious goal being accomplished is gonna look like. So I'm all for having these individuals who are 10, 30, 50 years ahead of us on that timeline because it's inspiring as to what they've done. And I love having that kind of inspiration for me. I read all their books. I love the documentaries that are going in there. It makes me realize that, hey, I've done some really cool stuff in my life, but there's so much more I can do. All right. So I have a tactical question for you too, which is Jimmy, the theoretical Jimmy, in quotes, where you figured out that the ideal length for your podcast is 20 to 30 minutes because Jimmy commutes 20, 30 minutes in the morning and maybe 40 minutes going home because of traffic.

24:32But it's in that 20, 30, 35-minute bracket. Well, for the past two years, Jimmy hasn't been commuting. He or she has just been waking up and maybe not even fully dressing. So what happens now? Did you alter your strategy? Yeah, I did one key altering. And this is actually pretty interesting because it happened in my life too, which doesn't necessarily need to happen for you to alter what your avatar is doing or what's ideal for them. But it was really interesting on how it did parallel what happened to me, which is we got a COVID dog. dog. His name is Gus. He's now two years old, but he was...

25:12What do you mean you got a... What's a COVID dog? That just means a dog that you get during COVID. Oh, I thought your dog had COVID when you got him. Okay. No, that's just a dog that you get when you're like, oh, I guess we're not traveling for the next X number of months or years. So the reason why we haven't got a dog all these years because of all this traveling we've done is now out the window, we got this amazing dog. And then I was walking one day and I'm like, man, I'm walking Gus every morning for two and a half miles. And I'm walking Gus every evening for two and a half miles. And I do that because I want 10 ,000 steps total.

25:49And 10 ,000 steps is a little over five miles, like 5.3 miles. So what was I doing while I was walking my dog? I was listening to podcasts. I was listening to audio books. Right now I'm actually listening to Life Force by Tony Robbins. Guy, you are going to live forever, by the way. Just putting it out there, you're going to live forever. Just saying. Anyways, life force is amazing. So I just made that little shift, just a little shift. And I said, you know, now, instead of Jimmy jumping in a car and driving to work, he's putting on his shoes, grabbing the collar and taking his dog on a 20 to 30 minute walk.

26:25So that was a shift that happened. And honestly, it's eerie how many people now email me and say, John, I listen to The entrepreneur is on fire while I'm walking my dog. And it's crazy. But, oh, wait, just a little bit of pushback here. Sure. Jimmy may have been commuting 25 minutes each way before the pandemic. But now Jimmy is home or Jimmy or Jane is waking up, homeschooling, making sure their kids' iPads are working, making sure they're awake and paying attention, et cetera, et cetera. They're cooking three meals a day for Jimmy's kids and Jane's kids. It's a whole different world. I don't know.

27:10Maybe you're walking your dog, but you think everybody's walking the dog. I think most people are just pulling their hair out. I think most people are pulling their hair out. I think most people are living very quiet lives of desperation. I think it's a crazy, crazy reality out there. I've got my sister who's up in Maine, so half the year. More than that, it's too cold to even be outside. she has two kids ages seven and ten her husband's got to be out there you know still cranking because he's in commercial real estate like her life is so different like any free time that she used to have is gone used to be like put the kids in the car on the bus and they're off in school and she's got the day to herself no longer so listen man it's a tough tough tough world out there so the amount of potential listening minutes for the average person is shrinking while the amount of potential minutes is expanding, meaning the more and more content is being created, created, created, which is why it's even more important these days to be remarkable.