The Future of Work with Hooman Radfar: An EOFire Classic from 2021

0:01Light that spark fire nation. JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on fire brought to you by the HubSpot podcast network, the audio destination for business professionals with great shows like the Ops Authority. Today, we're pulling a classic episode from the archives and we'll be breaking down the future of work. To drop these value bombs, I brought Who Man, Radfar, and Deo Fire Studios. Who Man is a serial entrepreneur, investor, and the co-founder and CEO of Collective. And today, Fire Nation, we have some value bombs for you. Anyone who has a spirit and wants to be an entrepreneur, the tools are there.

0:33It's never been easier to build a company from the perspective of having the right tools in place. In Fire Nation, America is built on entrepreneurship. Immigrants come with nothing, build businesses and create wealth. That is what makes America great. And oh, so much more. And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to WhoMan and our sponsors. DTC Pod, hosted by Ramon Berrios and Blaine Bolas, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. DTC Pod is a podcast about all things direct to consumer. Ramon and Blaine cover everything from starting, growing, and optimizing e-commerce stores in DTC brands.

1:08If you're interested in the stories behind your favorite consumer brands, this podcast is for you. One recent episode on how the best brands are built is a must listen. Listen to DTC Pod wherever you get your podcasts. Hooman, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. Hello, hello, hello, Fire Nation. Thank you for having me, John. What is something that I believe? So from my end, I think that there is a new impetus around this work-life balance concept, which I totally agree with. But I believe strongly that work-life balance is a dynamic principle versus static.

1:56So in the case of me, I'm starting a company. Your balance point at the beginning of a company, say when you're pre-seed is different than seed and A and B. And I think having the understanding that at the very beginning, you may have to sacrifice more, work more to achieve, but that balance is different than later. A common mistake I see with folks all the time who are getting the startup game for the first time is they think that they should have a certain schedule and it's actually going to maintain throughout the history of the startup. And I have not found that to be true. Fire Nation, this is Hooman's experience when it comes to becoming successful in this world.

2:37So I want you to take it, understand it, and then say, how can I apply this potentially to my life? And as I mentioned during the introduction, we're talking about the future of work. And I brought Hooman on to rock the mic here because you've had quite a jet setting life, my friend. I mean, you moved from Iran to the UK to the US of A. So talk to us about this journey. I just got to know how this transpired. I think it's a, I would say classic American tale, right? Yeah, my parents were born overseas. My father was always enamored with the United States. and him and my mom, luckily, were planning to come over here right as there was a revolution in Iran.

3:25And it's amazing to hear the stories about a revolution as it's happening. I guess maybe that could be a long conversation another time, but luckily left. I was born in London along the way. You can hear from my accent. Unfortunately, I didn't get the British accent, which I would love. I think it would up my game quite a bit. Ended up being raised in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. And I love Pennsylvania and went to school there for undergrad and grad. And it was really, you know, I like to think that my background, both from being Persian, having parents who are immigrants, both my parents own their own businesses.

4:06But also, you know, they really didn't understand the landscape here. when I went to college, I didn't know what the opportunity set was relative to some of my friends, right? Like I thought a banker was someone who was like a bank teller. I didn't realize that there was this thing called investment bankers where people are making, you know, millions and millions of dollars. So it's, it's been, you know, interesting to try to approach the world from so many different lenses, you know, as a Persian, as an immigrant, as an entrepreneur as a guy coming from Pennsylvania on the West Coast. So I love to bring those different perspectives to everything that I build and create.

4:43So Fire Nation, what I really want you to kind of understand as humans going through this process here is you've got to be able to make the most of your situation. I mean, this poor guy was born in London and he doesn't have a British accent, but somehow he was still able to make a success of himself. And that's kind of what I want to move into next because I'm personally very curious about the following. You were an early investor in companies like Uber and Convoy. Tell us the story of how you managed just to even be in a position to do those things and to make those investments. Walk us through that whole story.

5:21So I think to understand how you get in a position to invest in companies, a lot of it, you know, people say is like luck and circumstance. But I think so much of your life is the culmination of a lot of choices prior. And for me, what set me up to have the opportunity to work with founders and companies like those two or Sweetgreen was really the work I did previously, right so i love uh you know building creating i was coding since i was young i was drawing um you know anything i could do to create by any medium i loved it and fell in love with startups during college and the dot-com and started my first company out of graduate school that company at this um is was a marketing automation company we ultimately sold to oracle and uh i worked with you know we had 15 million customers that were using our tools and through building that platform i was in the phase of the web i think popularly defined as web 2.0 i got to meet all these different founders because our tools were plugins that would go to websites so one of our popular tools was a sharing plugin right share to facebook twitter myspace but there were 300 networks and then we were giving analytics and you know it was one of many tools but to we had to partner with these different networks and i remember you know facebook before Facebook Connect came out, they were reaching out to us, asking us to distribute their tools, stumble upon Twitter.

6:53We had direct relationship with them. At the time, these weren't the juggernauts that you know now. I was directly getting emails from Facebook begging me to promote their tool. I would say probably the first million installs that they had of Facebook Connect were likely driven by us. I think people often talk about, what do I need to do to invest and A, B, and C, a lot of that is what did you do beforehand? What experience did you build? What value did you create? And what network did you activate such that you're valuable and that your network provides that opportunity or you can seek that opportunity in your network so you can deliver that value?

7:31Yes, it's lucky that I could tell you the lucky part of it, how I actually got into that particular circumstance. Well, yeah, let's talk about one of those stories, just one of them. It could be Uber. It could be Sweet Greens. What's one of your favorite stories of like, wow, looking back, like that was really cool how that developed. So Convoy is one that's like pretty near and dear to my heart for a number of reasons. So I had joined my partner Garrett at Expo and Expo builds and creates startups where we wanted to be founders, helping founders. And so obviously Garrett's the founder of Uber.

8:08And so when I had joined him, you know, and we were working on Expo, one of the concepts that I was enamored by was this idea of how you could take that Uber model. How do you create like an application and have a connected managed marketplace, whether it be transportation in the case of Uber for consumers, but you could apply it to other markets. And so I started looking at logistics and I thought, wow, logistics is very pen and paper. There's, I mean, I called folks, it was really, really challenging, right? It was an old school industry, but you're talking about $800 billion market, right? And so I thought, wow, we could take the concepts from Uber and build something similar and use the Expo platform, Garrett's experience, my experience to launch it.

8:54So that was where we started. I ultimately, when we were thinking about incubating, it said to myself, wow, I think that somebody else, like I was going to go take the lead and go and build it. But while I was in Amworth the concept and while I thought it would work, I started to realize there has to be someone with a different set of expertise and passions to run point on this project. So, um, that's kind of where I was like, you know, starting to think about that now fast forward, I go in and, uh, I was in this, in this place called the battery in San Francisco and I run into an old friend. I hadn't seen him in a long time.

9:27This guy, uh, Ali Portovi and Ali and I started talking, said we should hang out. You know, it was great because you know kindle the great friendship and uh and all of these things but we started talking about this he was telling me about ask me the expo what i was thinking was big and i talked about trucking he was interested in trucking and um we both kind of had that same thesis and i said man if you find anyone there let me know lo and behold he met uh his brother hottie had met dan in seattle and dan was you know ex amazon thinking about this concept and ali called me said hey if you guys are interested, I think, you know, given your interest, given what you've seen with Uber, you know, I think that it could be a really interesting combination.

10:11And so it all, you know, came together pretty nicely in a package. But again, you had to have like that really weird chain of events where I was already interested, I run into this guy at a, you know, the battery happened to convey my interest, and then he happens to run another guy. And so So that's one of the really amazing things that happens, I think, not just in work, but in life, that synchronicity where you have to keep your mind open and almost invite the universe in and magic happens. That for me was something that just, you know, you can't make that one happen. We couldn't force it. And Fire Nation, that's why you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with, because it's all about surrounding yourself with the right people, putting yourself in the right situations.

10:57I mean, a lot of people talk about luck this and luck that. Well, guess what? Luck is where effort meets opportunity. And Hunan was putting in the work. He was making the efforts and the opportunities, they arose. And he took advantage of them. And then here we are chatting here today with some of his past investments being Uber, Convoy, Sweet Greens. I mean, hello. And we are going to really be focusing on the future of work, the passion economy, and so much more. when we get back from thanking our sponsors. Marketers have never been spread so thin. Trust me, I feel it too. Between creating content, launching campaigns, generating leads, nurturing your prospects, and more, you barely have a second to breathe, let alone do your best marketing.

11:41But I've got some great news. There's a better way to do things, and it's with the help of HubSpot and Breeze. It's new, built-in AI. When you combine the power of HubSpot's marketing hub and content hub, you can have your best quarter every quarter. No more guessing what's working and what's not, and no more switching between multiple platforms just to manage your workload. HubSpot's breeze helps you instantly remix your content, gives you lead scoring to shine a light on your best potential customers, and an AI-curated analytics suite for reports and KPIs. Add this to co-pilots and agents to automate your tasks, and you've got yourself one powerful platform, making your life easier, getting your results faster, and better connecting you to all your data all in one place.

12:21Stop spreading yourself thin and start making major moves with HubSpot. Visit HubSpot.com slash marketers to learn more. Huda, we're back and I want to now talk about the future of work and the trends that are happening in that area. So first off, define work trends and then break down what the future holds in your eyes. I think all of us are acutely aware about the accelerating pace of the change in future work. in particular because of the reality of the world. We went through a pandemic and all of us, whether we liked it or not, went into, I think, one of the grandest experiments in work, which is what if everyone has to go remote at the same time?

13:07And I think if you don't acknowledge that reality, you're not really understanding the future of work. So I think first and foremost, now more than ever, remote is an irreversible and accelerating trend. I think it was something that was important before. Now I think it's something that if you don't factor into everything you're doing, it's just, you're not going to come up with the right strategy. And now, you know, going back, hopefully we're on the other side of the pandemic. Of course, it's not completely over. even if it was what we're seeing is employees companies have to wrestle with hybrid or remote so i think that to me is one of the big big changes now second what that's done is if you're going remote you have to start thinking about um your your team right so in our case we went we have a very international and uh diverse team within the united states So we have people in North Carolina, we have people in Kentucky, we have people in Florida, California, we have people in India, Pakistan, and now we're hiring overseas.

14:15Would we have done that had the pandemic not occurred? I don't know. I don't think so, but it's working and we're realizing the benefit of it. So something's opened up. Now, what that's changed for a lot of employers, though, is how do you have to onboard and work with people who are in different states and different countries? So there are all these opportunities and it's created from a company perspective, both the economic uncertainty and the fact that you are likely going to hire remote has created this huge demand in what we call the business of one world at Collective. So freelancers, gig workers, I mean, the demand is out of control.

14:54At Collective, we're seeing our membership explode. And also we're seeing the revenues go up because, you know, if you're a company, say you're a small business and you're looking at it and saying, hey, I don't know what's going to happen in the world. And I know I need to take advantage of talent in different states. All things being equal, you're starting to really, really open up to contractors. Well, those contractors might have contracts at a couple of companies. They may have your company, but ultimately that's a business of one. And so I think that's another trend that's been accelerated by our reality.

15:28So those are two things that I would say are critical to assess in the future of work that will shape not just the way we work, but also the tools that we select to work with. And Fire Nation, when you can stay ahead of the curve, when you can stay cutting edge in your knowledge, then that just puts you one step ahead of your competition. And I want to talk about the passion economy, Hunan, because this is a word that I find really interesting, passion. And then when you're coupling it with economy, my interest is piqued. So why is the passion economy the new American dream? So I think what's happened is pretty interesting.

16:10Look, America is built on entrepreneurship. It is the fundamental backbone of this country. um it's immigrants coming here with nothing building businesses uh creating wealth and i think that's what makes this country great now at the core at the base of this um there is businesses one and that's something that i think is in the zeitgeist and has been you know you look at uber for example people talk about the gig economy it's been popularized as this you know new trend but it's it's america if you look at businesses of one as an example 36 percent of the workforce are solopreneurs and are predicted to go up to 50 % in the next 10 years.

16:51And I think the drivers for this are pretty apparent, right? People want the freedom and independence of running their own business. And what's really unlocking this and becoming a great catalyst is, one, on the revenue side, you have the emergence of marketplaces. So you look at Upwork, Uber, you have Dribbble. There's so many vertical marketplaces that are enabling talented people who want to run their own businesses to connect with opportunities for revenue. So that's the first, I think, thing you need. Second, I think you're seeing this rise in tools to enable people to more easily run their businesses and generate revenue.

17:33And that's, you know, goes from creators, right? Like you look at vertical oriented tools like Substack, that are enabling writers. You look at tools like Figma even, right, that are making design more collaborative, that are making it easier. And then you go all the way down to, hey, I have to actually run my business. And by the way, I'm not an expert on my business. Tools and platforms like Collective that say, hey, you focus on your passion, go get revenue through Upwork or what have you, these influencer platforms will handle the formation, the tax, the accounting. They're necessary, but you need to handle the real stuff, which is the revenue.

18:13And I think that confluence of having the revenue opportunities move online, having the tools to run the business move online are just basically taking those folks that were already excited and saying, all right, what do I really love to do? The ball's in my court at this point. I don't need to wait. I actually have it because you know if you think even 10 years ago 20 years ago was scarier how are you going to generate revenue how are you going to string together all the tools to the business it was very different and so I think what you're just seeing is the tools are catching up with people's dreams but fundamentally this country has been an entrepreneurial country and I think all we're doing is enabling that spirit to be lifted.

18:54Fire Nation that is the backbone of the United States of America. I mean, literally from day one. And so that's what I love when we talk about things like this passion economy, because this is an opportunity that we all have to follow our passions while knowing that we need to be providing real value, real value. I actually like to say specifically becoming the number one solution to somebody's real problem, that's where you need to make sure you're also including in with the passion because people are going to beat a path to the door of the number one solution to their problem and they're going to ignore the second best solution all the way down to infinity.

19:39So why would you not want to be the number one solution to a real problem in this world? And if you can infuse your passion within that, you're going to win out because the person that wakes up every day wanting to do that thing, excited to continue going forward in that direction, they're going to win out over time. So Hooman, give us the one key takeaway that you really want to make sure Fire Nation walks away with from our entire conversation today. Share with us some details about how we can connect with you, with what you have going on, any call to action you may have, and then we'll say goodbye.

20:14I'll start with the takeaway and I'll end with connecting with me. So I think my takeaway to anyone who's out there today, who has that spirit, who wants to be an entrepreneur, whether it's someone who wants to build something at scale, an adventure-backed business, or, hey, I want to create on my business one, my parents immigrating from other countries, starting to hang up their own shingle for a doctor's office. The tools are there. It's never been easier to build a company from the perspective of having the right tools in place. You can do it. And if you're concerned about how to start, my advice to you is simple.

20:56Put a folder on your computer, call it startup X, set a doc up, and just start writing. Write down all your ideas. Close it. You started. Hit that every day. There's an amazing book called War of Art that talks about, you know, creativity in the face of resistance. And I think half the battle for entrepreneurs is putting one foot in front of the other, continuing to learn with humility and fight. So I think you can do it. And I hope that you do. And that's my takeaway for you in terms of reaching out. My I'm at human Radfar on most social media. So Instagram, Twitter, connect with me on LinkedIn, I'd love to talk to you.

21:38And in you're freelancing, you're a great designer, marketer, creative, please reach out to me. I'm happy to help. And if you are considering scaling your business strongly, I would encourage you to look at an selection. If you're making over$60 ,000,$70 ,000 a year, you can save tens of thousands on taxes. If you want to learn more, we have resources at collective.com, or you can reach out to me, but we're here to help you. We want this economy to move forward. I encourage you to follow your dreams. Fire Nation, you're the average. Of the five people you spend the most time with. And you've been hanging out with HR and JLD today.

22:12So keep up that heat and head over to eofire.com. Type Hooman in the search bar. That's H-O-O-M-A-N. And the show notes page will pop up with everything we talked about here today. And Hooman, I just want to say thank you, brother, for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your value with Fire Nation today. For that, we salute you and we'll catch you on the flip side. Thank you, brother. I appreciate it. Hey, Fire Nation. Today's value bomb content was brought to you by Hooman and Fire Nation. Successful entrepreneurs accomplish big goals. That's why I created the Freedom Journal to guide you in accomplishing your number one goal in a hundred days.

22:50And we're talking step by step. So visit thefreedomjournal.com. Use promo code podcast for a$15 discount. And thank you for listening to my podcast. And I'll catch you there or I'll catch you on the flip side. DTC Pod, hosted by Ramon Berrios and Blaine Bolas, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. DTC Pod is a podcast about all things direct to consumer. Ramon and Blaine cover everything from starting, growing, and optimizing e-commerce stores in DTC brands. If you're interested in the stories behind your favorite consumer brands, this podcast is for you.

23:25One recent episode on how the best brands are built is a must listen. Listen to DTC pod wherever you get your podcasts.