The Key to Sound Success with Mike & Izabela Russell

0:01Light that spark fire nation JLD here and welcome to entrepreneurs on fire brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals with great shows like I Digress. Today, we'll be breaking down the key to sound success. To drop these value bombs, I brought to Mike and Isabella Russell and the EO Fire Studios. Mike and Isabella are the founders of Music Radio Creative. They serve the global market with exceptional audio production services. They are esteemed experts in podcasting and branding and have grown their business across 150 plus countries. And today, Foundation, we'll talk about audio production.

0:37We'll talk about the changes that have happened. We'll talk about how AI has transformed the landscape of voiceovers, jingles, and just everything in general when it comes to audio, and so much more. And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Mike Isabella and our sponsors. Nudge, hosted by Phil Agnew, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals? Ever notice how the smallest changes can have the biggest impact? On Nudge, you learn simple evidence-backed tips to help you kick bad habits, get a raise, and grow a business. Oh, and it's the UK's Fast-Growing Business Podcast.

1:11A recent episode on how to win any argument shares decade-long research into persuasion from a world-leading neuroscientist. Listen to Nudge wherever you get your podcasts. Are you looking to start or grow a successful business? Attend the world's highest-rated and most-reviewed business growth workshop taught personally by Clay Clark and football great Tim Tebow at Thrivetimeshow.com slash EO Fire. Again, request life-changing tickets today at Thrivetimeshow.com slash EO Fire. Mike and Isabella are joining us here on Entrepreneurs on Fire. And as I said in the intro, Fire Nation, these people know what it means to be exceptional in the audio production world.

1:54They have been doing this for a very, very long time. I've known them for now over 12 years. They've actually been to visit me in San Diego. We did some cool things there. I've hired Mike multiple times to try to help me perfect my audio with Adobe Audition here because he's such a professional with that. But what I want to do now is give Mike initially the opportunity to talk about what drew him into the world of audio production, because, you know, it is an interesting world. And Mike, you've just gone all in. So let's talk about that. Thanks so much, John. Well, right back at you as well, your dedication with the podcast and keeping it going for so long and dedication.

2:34So for me, it started from passion, just simply a spark in me that was like, I really like this audio thing. I always think about Home Alone and when he's using the Talkboy and speeding things up, slowing things down and doing crazy things with audio. I had that initial draw. I was like, I want to know how those things are made. Like, how are they doing that on? Do you remember radio when we used to listen to it a lot? And I would hear the jingles and I would get so excited. I was like, how are they doing that? So then I got into learning through initially volunteering and then taking various different studies at school and college.

3:11And then really most of my experience, I just got on the job working at local radio stations, which then led me down the path of podcasting and finding all these amazing podcasts, including your own JLD. And that inspired me. And I thought, well, maybe we could do something like a business back in back in the day, maybe 10 years ago. Now, it was about building or 12 years ago, it was about building an email list. I think it still is to a certain extent today. So we started to do that. And we started to do things online. and it's been an incredible journey and it still keeps going. It still keeps going.

3:47I mean, that's one thing that I love is how it evolves. And I will say this, and Isabella, I'm sure you know what I'm about to be talking about because people approach me, they're like, John, it's so impressive what you've created with Entrepreneurs on Fire and yada, yada. But we really know that the engine behind everything is Kate. And I have to sheepishly nod my head and be like, yeah, you're right. I'm just a quote unquote pretty voice here and casually making all the things happen. And you, Isabella, I know have been doing so much both in front and behind the scenes with the business for so long now.

4:19So what do you want to add to your piece in this puzzle? It's just an incredible ride. So much is changing in general in the industry, but just the dedication on our part really is in the attention to detail because it is the kind of industry that you can easily just overlook small things. But when you overlook the small things, that's where it's no longer great. It's only good. And we've always stood for great for everybody, including the smaller scale productions. And that's always been the core of everything we've done at MRC. So I would say just that attention to detail is incredibly, incredibly important.

5:05Critical. And I will say that's the one reason why I knew when I wanted to go from good to quite good to great with my audio quality and overall audio production within Adobe Audition, there was one phone call to make. It was MRC. I was like, Mike, we need to get on a call. I want you to walk me through what I'm doing wrong, what I need to do, the settings that I need to have. And then now it's just all, I load up Adobe Audition and boom, all the settings are perfect and things sound great and it makes editing a breeze and all this stuff. You really need to focus on doing those small things right, getting the systems and processes down because then it makes everything great and in a lot of ways so much easier.

5:42So what really has changed over the years, Isabella? Like what are those changes that you've seen in the audio production industry? A lot has changed. And actually probably the last two years are the fastest accelerated change we see because of AI. But, you know, we went from working with radio stations, very traditional media, and we saw the bloom of independent broadcasters and podcasters, you know, all of those people who wanted to have a voice. And with that, actually, just availability of good quality of audio has changed dramatically. You know, voiceovers used to have to go to a studio, book a time in a studio with a producer.

6:27Then they went on to be able to have great quality setups at home. And, you know, that was very much approachable. And then you would have, you know, a high barrier to entry for really good quality music. And again, you know, then we went, we saw the explosion of royalty free music market and how that's changed. Now AI is taking it all completely into a different space. So it has changed massively, but I think it just became a lot more approachable to people, to a regular person. I think a lot more people started to understand it as well. And podcasting had a lot to do with that, really. And yeah, it's continuing to change and evolve.

7:12And it's really interesting to see where it's going to go. And I will say that's where the opportunity is, Fire Nation. If things were stagnant, there'd be stagnant opportunities. There'd be no opportunities because it'd be completely saturated. But it's because there's change, because there's evolving, people that keep their finger on the pulse, Those are the people that spot them quicker, move faster, identify the new opportunities. Those people win. I can tell you Mike and Isabella are keeping their finger on the pulse. But what's really interesting is you bring up the word AI, artificial intelligence, Isabella.

7:43And I will say, Fire Nation, they both warned me before the episode, so I'm not going to be surprised, that they vastly disagree on this topic. So we have some interesting conversations to come. But Mike, you integrated AI into Music Reader Creative's audio production services. Why and how? Absolutely. And I think what you just said there, John, is absolutely sound advice. It's like be on the pulse of change. Be watching what's happening and how things are moving on so that you can keep up and you can serve people in the most appropriate way. So obviously, AI is the next logical step. I mean, it's happening everywhere with applications that can synthesize a voice to, you know, online apps that can create snippets of a song.

8:28And eventually, if you keep going, like a full song in total. So it was logical to get it into our business. Otherwise, we would simply be left behind. And so, yeah, AI voices, they're starting to come in as a product that we're offering. There are more things that will come down the line. And I'll put my position out there. I'm a tech optimist. I love technology. I love the progress of AI. For me, it feels like all of these AI things we're seeing come along, like, you know, obviously it started with chat GPT. For me, it's like a coming home. It's like, yes, it's like what I've always wanted to do since I was a kid is just have this magic box that you can type something in and it will do it for you in natural language.

9:08And I think we're getting to the stage now where everyone on the planet, billions of people will now be able to create music with the help of clever prompting and tools that can make it happen for them you will still need i believe the creativity and the human touch to add the soul the emotion and the spirit to it but boy can it accelerate you you know graphic designers they were worried when mid-journey first came on the scene but now you can use it to augment your skills and you know everything from creating an interesting looking youtube thumbnail to just generating music and audio you couldn't even imagine.

9:47And that's why for me personally, I've started a brand new YouTube channel called Creator Magic, and I'm helping people to learn these AI tools and how they apply to creativity. I'm really excited about it. But Isabella will hop in and she'll maybe slam on the brakes a little bit for you. Well, I know she's going to, and I think it's going to be a really fun conversation. But Fire Nation, if you want to hear Isabella's take, which is going to be really interesting, you're going to have to hang on tight. And as soon as we get back from our sponsors, we will dive right in. Welcome to the world of entrepreneurship.

10:20More things added to your to-do list every day and less time to accomplish the things that matter most. Add to all that the number of tools it takes to run your coaching programs, online courses, growing team, and your physical product sales, and you've really got your hands full. Doing business has never felt harder. But what if there was a way to simplify everything, a way to manage your entire business with a single platform. Sounds like you'll need a miracle to make it happen, doesn't it? Well, I'm here to tell you that you don't need a miracle to hit your goals. You just need HubSpot. HubSpot's all-on-one customer platform can make growing your business infinitely easier.

10:56Imagine this, a platform that gives you high-quality leads, helps you close deals faster, and one that promotes customer loyalty and happiness. And if you're looking for record-breaking quarters, those are just ahead too. It's not a miracle, it's HubSpot. Visit HubSpot.com to get started today. If you've ever tried to get funding to help grow your business, then you know finding the right lender and navigating offers can be tough. But what if you had a trusted advisor who could help you compare multiple lenders and secure funding without having to wonder whether you're making the right choice?

11:29Well, you can do this and more with Fundera. Fundera gives you one easy online application to compare multiple lenders, both SBA and alternative loan options, and qualified applicants can connect with a funding advisor to look over offers together. It's free to compare options, and because Fundera earns a percentage from the financial provider only after you secure funding, you know they have every incentive to help you win. With over$2.5 billion in loans secured and over 85 ,000 businesses who have worked with Fundera, you're in good hands. Get funding in as little as 24 hours with no collateral required.

12:06Visit fundera.com to see your loan options today. That's fundera.com. F-U-N-D-E-R-A.com. Are you looking to start or grow a successful business this year? Are you looking to learn the proven success systems that have been used to create thousands of millionaire success stories? See thousands of success stories and testimonials from real people just like you, who Clay Clark has mentored and coached into prosperity at thrivetimeshow.com slash EO fire. Clay's proven business coaching program is month to month and it costs less than hiring a minimum wage employee. Yes, it's month to month and costs less than hiring a minimum wage employee.

12:46Schedule your free personal 13 point assessment with Clay Clark himself today at thrivetimeshow.com slash eofire. Because Clay only takes on 160 clients and only allows 300 attendees to each business conference, you will interact with Clay directly, see thousands of real success stories, and learn about attending the Thrive Time Show two-day in-person workshop featuring football great and entrepreneur Tim Tebow today at thrivetimeshow.com slash eofire. Become the next success story. Schedule a free consultation and request tickets to join Tim Tebow and Clay Clark at the next business conference today at thrivetimeshow.com slash EO Fire.

13:26Fire Nation, we're back. And listen, it was crazy how many people thought that with the invention of the car that so many people were going to just lose jobs. And a lot of people did lose jobs for sure. I mean, there's a lot of people that had jobs in that industry that lost jobs because of the invention of the car. But it was unbelievable how many jobs and opportunities and new crazy things happened because now cars were available back in the early 1900s. So, I mean, it is definitely a point in the favor of change, of evolution when things like that happen. But hey, we can also talk about other times where, you know, maybe sometimes evolving didn't work out for the best and things kind of happen on the other end of the spectrum as well.

14:06So, Isabella, let's just start off with you answering the question, why do you hate AI? I didn't say I hated. I know that was My words in your mouth. I'm sorry. Go ahead. Close enough. But let me just start off by saying that I do think that when AI settles, probably approximately 80 % of professionals in our industry will be gone. There won't be a space for them. And now let me explain further. So first of all, we have voiceover artists. As you know, AI voices are incredibly good now. They are amazing. And actually, to be fair, maybe out of 10 voices, like really good voiceover artists, you know, maybe two will be actually good enough to compete with the artificial voice.

14:52So this is the first problem. Now, the second problem with that is in order for all of those two voice artists to become so incredibly good at their craft, they had to have opportunities along the way from the very, very bottom of the pecking order up until, you know, being able to pick those cherry on top projects, right? But AI is going to take out 80 % of those projects. So therefore, you do not have a scalable way for people to grow in that industry. So you don't all of a sudden have a space where those people could grab those lower paying jobs and practice and learn on the go, like this will go.

15:33So how will the new voices learn to be the great voices? I don't know. So this is my first problem with that. Second of all, we have now music generators creating incredible compositions. Now, there are already questions in Hollywood as to what models were those trained on. Have they used copyrighted music? Have they used copyrighted material? What are the ethical side effects of all of this that's happening around us, you know, those artists spend decades practicing, making the craft. AI company is coming in, scooping the information from the internet, throwing it into the learning machines and bringing out products that are effectively learned and made out of somebody else's work.

16:19What are the ethical implications of that? We should be asking that question. Then we also have the same question with the voice generators. How did they learn to be so good? Well, they've used thousands and thousands and thousands of files available on the internet with human speech, and they've learned to be on that. So again, what are the ethical implications of that? Why are we allowing very few companies? Because actually, if you look at the ownership of all of those AI companies, actually, it's like three, four companies tops that own it. And all of a sudden we are putting the human cultural heritage in the hands of very, very few.

17:02And we are letting them hold on to it and kind of distribute it further, effectively killing livelihoods of many people in the process. Because, you know, the same with musicians. They won't be able to create music because nobody will want to buy it. You know, you can go and have something generated in 30 seconds that sounds exactly as you want it to. Why would you go through a hassle of hiring a musician, paying him maybe hundreds of dollars for his time, waiting weeks to maybe have something that will be just like you wanted, but it may need some revisions, right? So that's the second problem with that.

17:38And I'm just, you know, in general, I'm worried for the people in our industry because I feel like there is a lot of injustice in the AI world. And I think that this really should be addressed. But not to mention the fact that how certain can we be as business owners to use AI-generated music and voice to be commercially safe? And if you look at terms and conditions, it is not. So none of those companies will say, well, we will cover you for any copyright strikes. You know, it's like we've got you. There is nothing like that out there. In fact, they say that they don't want to know. So commercially safe is actually the key word.

18:24And I do think that it's important for people to keep that in mind. And yeah, I hope that kind of explains my side. So do I hate? I don't know. I'll hop on the end of that and I'll just say, yes, I agree with the ethics and being commercially safe. But I think that these tools are actually enabling us to be super powerful. Back in the day, certainly when I was growing up, I learned audio. I did not learn to be a musician. I learned audio and voice and vocal first processing. So that's my skill. That's what I've got. Other people learn to be a designer. Other people learn to be an artist. Other people learn to create great film and cinematography.

19:04I did not. But now with these tools, I can be a little bit of everything. I can accelerate myself. And rather than saying, hey, I'm Mike, I'm an audio guy, or I'm Mike, I'm a film guy. Now I can say I'm Mike and I'm a creator accelerated by AI. It's like there was this amazing Polish saying that if you do a lot of little things, you never do anything big. And actually, I think that that potentially could lead to that. We will have a lot of creators that do a lot of little things, but never actually perfect the craft to the point of something being great. And I think that this is another danger AI brings is because we can do so much.

19:43We never actually hone on on that perfection of one thing that creates so many amazing pieces that we've witnessed throughout the centuries of human culture. Fire Nation, you can probably tell that Mike and Isabella have some really interesting dinner conversations because they both bring up some really good points. And it's not like they disagree with each other completely on either side of the equation. There's some overlap there. And there's always, when it comes to this scenario, there's always going to be winners and there's always going to be losers. I am concerned with Isabella's point of it seems like there's going to be a few big winners of these companies that come up and scoop everything up.

20:20and a lot of the losers could really be adding up there and that can really hurt. But I mean, at the end of the day, it's like, how are you going to stop things from moving forward? And this kind of reminds me of a story, Isabel, you may resonate with this. It was about the gramophone. And it was like, when that was created, it was this opportunity now where people could use the radio and they could have something in their house, which was the gramophone, to start playing music in their home. And guess what happens? Well, before that was available, what did you have? You had thousands and tens of thousands of towns across the United States, across the world.

20:58And they all had their regional talents, like that one person from that high school or from that region that was the great singer. And if you want to hear somebody that was a great singer or at least a really good singer, you had to go watch them live sing. And so there's all these people that were making a living because they were in their small little region, they were the best or really good and good enough to perform. And then all of a sudden, the gramophone comes out. And now you have literally the top 1 % of the top 1 % are being played across the radio through the gramophone. And now what are people doing?

21:31They're staying home and they're just listening to the best for free. And that just wiped out that entire industry that I just talked about. So that was progress and that hurt a lot of people. And there were a few really big winners, but a lot of people suffered as a result. But at the end of the day as well, it was making me think like, man, why have I become a pretty decent podcast host, a good speaker, communicator, facilitator of conversations? It's because every day I've gotten up for 12 years and I've put in the reps. I've put in the reps and I've interviewed and I've got a little bit better every single time.

22:06But 12 years ago, if this wasn't an option and there There was AI that was doing what I'm doing right now at a really high quality. I never would have had the opportunity to even become good because I never would have been able to put in the reps to even become decent at my craft. So that also concerns me with what Isabella is saying as well. But Mike, I want to pass it back to you because let's be frank. AI technology, it has transformed the landscape of voiceovers, of jingles. Tell us how. Yeah, it really has, because that story that you just gave there, John, was absolutely perfect. Essentially, it's come along and it's scooped up a lot of data from the Internet.

22:46Yeah, let's not kid ourselves. The voice models are likely trained on openly available voices out there, and the music models likely have some well-known tunes that have been put into the models. But now, yeah, it allows anyone to sit there in front of their computer. and in many cases right now because it's all such new technology create stuff for free and i think this is an interesting buzz around ai right now is that most products are free and available and as long as you log in with your google account you can start generating you know a couple hundred different generations for free until you have to buy some credits um and i foresee in the future i do foresee a problem and you're right there is some crossover between isabella and i that you You know, there are very few companies that are running the show on the high level and all the really good products will undoubtedly get purchased or bought out by those companies, I would imagine.

23:42And we're going to see potentially the Uber effect where, you know, first of all, they put a great product out there and make it very cheap and easy to use. And then they take the whole market over and say, well, now we can set the price at whatever we want it to be. So I think we need to watch out for that. But again, I'm just super excited that anyone in their home can be a creator. I wouldn't necessarily say if I type in five words as a text prompt and I create an amazing sounding song, I'm not going to put my hand up and say, hey, look, I'm a musician now. I guess that just means I'm a prompt engineer, potentially.

24:19But yeah, it's interesting times. It is interesting. And Isabella, I'm going to give you kind of the last word here as we close this interview down. But before we do, another analogy that kind of pops up to me, and it may not be a great one, but I remember back in the day, let's say 20 years ago, you just had a sports team that you were into. And it's probably a little different where you guys are at in the UK and stuff. But with the States, it's like you had your favorite American football team, your favorite basketball team, your favorite baseball team. And that was the only team you followed.

24:50You never watched another game that they weren't involved in. You didn't really know many of the other players except maybe on the rival teams. but you really were very just focused on your team period that was it and then fantasy sports came and now all of a sudden you can be a coach and you're drafting players and your players are from all these teams and all these different teams all across all the whole different scenarios and the leagues and all these different things and now I found myself having my team and now I'm watching SportsCenter every night to see my team's highlights and I'm looking at the box score of that team and that player.

25:26And I'm learning all these things about these players and teams that I never would have otherwise learned about. So a lot of people are like, oh, fantasy sports is going to ruin sports. But man, I'll tell you, it just did the exact opposite. Like it blew it up and made everybody a huge fan of the sport of all the teams because now they had a piece of all these little pies. And so Mike, to your point, I'm like, now, man, all these people that are sitting at home that do not have a natural voice, like I don't, I can never be a singer, don't have natural skills on certain levels. Now they can sit here and use tools to produce something creative that could be pretty cool.