The Regulated Leader: Why Nervous System Mastery Is the Ultimate Performance Advantage with Jordan Dunin

0:01John Lee Dumas:Boom! Shake the room, Fire Nation. JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire, brought to you by HighLevel, the all-in-one sales and marketing platform. Today we'll be breaking down the regulated leader, why nervous system mastery is the ultimate performance advantage. And to drop these via bombs, I brought to Jordan Dunin and EO Fire Studios. Jordan is the founder of HatchPath, a platform delivering 4.2x ROI through employee well-being by improving resilience, decision-making, and performance across high-pressure organizations. And today we talk about the success burnout paradox, the hidden biology of leadership, stress and strategic decline, and oh, so much more.

0:38John Lee Dumas:And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Jordan and our sponsors. Fire Nation, stop putting off launching your website or business. Hostinger makes it incredibly simple and affordable to get online with everything you need to succeed all in one place. Visit hostinger.com slash onfire. Use code onfire for 20 % off. Your next chapter starts today. If you are building a real business, you need real infrastructure. High Level gives you website hosting, funnels, email marketing, automation, calendar booking, payments, and course hosting all on one platform, plus award-winning 24-7 support.

1:14John Lee Dumas:Get a 30-day free trial and my full bonus stack that includes a 15-minute private call with me and much more at highlevelfire.com. Highlevelfire.com. Jordan, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. Hello, everybody. And I think that's the best question to start out today. I think that the one thing that people think about when becoming successful is hustle. So the hard work that you have to put in, getting up at 4 a.m., limiting your sleep, getting in cold plunges, you know, meditating, doing the breath work, journaling, showing up to work, doing all your email, you know, the hustle culture is what I think that people think about when they think about success.

2:02And I was stuck in that about two years ago. I was getting up every day at 4 a.m., getting in my cold plunge, you name it. And I burnt out. And I think that one of the things that we don't talk about enough is regulation. So nervous system regulation in particular. And I think that that's where true success lies in being present in every task, like I'm present with you right now on this podcast and enabling your body to heal. So I think that's my answer is that most people think about success in terms of hustle, hard work. And what's the word I'm looking for? It's not that important, but resilience is key.

2:44And you can't have resilience without supporting your nervous system.

2:48John Lee Dumas:The regulated leader. Why nervous system mastery is the ultimate performance advantage. That's our focus today, Fire Nation. And I do want to talk about that success burnout paradox because I experienced something incredibly similar to you, Jordan. I mean, I went on this amazing 10-day water-only fast, and then I came back. I was, you know, very, very light, of course, like weight wise from what my healthy weight would be. And I immediately jumped into like cold plunging and 30 minutes infrared sauna and this and that. And I was getting up, you know, and my body felt and my body felt that burnout because that is real.

3:26John Lee Dumas:So why do so many high performers burn out even when from the outside they look quote unquote successful? Exactly. I think you hit the nail on the head with the question because I feel that successful people have a very high output and compared with, you know, quote unquote unsuccessful people. And when you're looking at regulated nervous system, it all come back to rest. So how are you letting your body rest? Even when we sleep, if we're a high performing individual, we're probably not getting the right regulated sleep. We're probably not getting into a REM sleep. So the number one thing that I would focus on if I was someone aspiring to be successful is make sure that you care for your body, your mind, your soul, and the whole body as well.

4:11John Lee Dumas:Let's talk about the hidden biology of leadership because you talk about the biology behind reactivity, poor decisions, leadership fatigue. What's happening beneath the surface that most people just seem to completely miss? Yeah, absolutely. I think that the stress hormone cortisol is huge. And when you're talking about cold plunging, if you're not doing it in the state of enjoyment, you're going to just flush cortisol throughout your body and you're going to feel that stress state. So if you've ever had something that you're completely fearful of, like public speaking for a lot of people and you go through stage fright, a lot of people live their life in that chronic condition.

4:50So you think that a great example is, you know, we feel like there's a bear chasing us and there's really no bear and we're living every day in a rush. So, you know, back in 2016, I broke my neck. I suffered a traumatic brain injury and then I was diagnosed with chronic Lyme disease. and I had that same personality that I do now, whereas I thought that I had to do things in order to recover, whereas it's really not the human condition to believe that doing nothing or allowing would lead to recovery or sustainability. And that's exactly what I had to learn was how to relax, how to do nothing and how to allow my body to heal.

5:29John Lee Dumas:What would you say were one or two things that you did during that recovery period that were really beneficial that you think some people might not really be thinking about? Meditation for sure. I was never a spiritual person until I met my now wife. When I was really sick, I met her. Her name's Lauren. She's now the mother of our two children or two boys. And meditation is simply the process of being where you are. There's lots of ways to meditate. There's an awesome book called Mindful to Mindful, you know, a little play on words. but meditation is as simple as shutting your eyes and being in the moment if you can set a timer for 10 minutes and do that i guarantee you the first time you try you'll get to a minute and want to pick up your phone scroll social media or um and find that inherent trigger that's within us to grab our phone i actually heard a statistic the other day that 90 of the reason we grab our phone is not from notifications, but from internal triggers.

6:27So boredom, stress, hormones. That's why we grab our phone. It's not due to the phone triggering us with a notification. So the number one thing I do is meditation. The number two thing I would focus on is sleep and sleep starts in the morning. So my wife is really big on this with me. I love my coffee and I have to delay it 90 minutes. And the reason being is that I want my body to wake up in the proper manner so that I can go to sleep in the proper manner. And we have something called our circadian rhythm. And it's, you set it in the morning. And then, you know, if you're able to have an early dinner and not eat before bed, you'll set up your digestion in a successful way so that you'll actually have a deep sleep.

7:08And I still struggle with that. I like my snacking. You know, I have two young boys, I have a toddler and a nine month old. And it's the only time I get with my wife is in the evening because the boys are everywhere. So sometimes I engage in snacking. But those are the two things that I'd focus on. It's like sleep, but sleep starts during the day. And then if you can find space to meditate, you know, the only way that you can do it is the way that you can do it. I would go with that.

7:32John Lee Dumas:Mindful to Mindful by Om Swami actually just downloaded his four hours on audible fire nation. You literally can get it for free. So there's no reason not to definitely check it out. And Jordan, I'm going to be listening to that on my walk today. So thank you for that great piece of advice or recommendation. Let's talk about stress. Let's talk about strategic decline. How does chronic stress quietly erode executive function, long-term thinking, and the ability to lead strategically? Perfect. I think that you answer the question in your question a little bit. And yeah, leaders, if you can think about it, whatever energy you start with, you stack.

8:15So if you start the day with negative energy, you check your email and you feel that cortisol building in your body. The rest of your day, you're stacking that energy, whether it's you're finding something wrong with your partner, whether it's you're finding something wrong in traffic or that energy stacks. And that leads to chronic stress, overwhelm and energy fatigue, which shows up in everything. So you'll find yourself in meetings instead of focusing on resolving whatever the issue is, getting through it and moving on to the next problem. So your problem solving skills start to deteriorate.

8:42You're using less of your brain. You have less of a bandwidth to handle stress. So everything, you're almost at the tip of your stress point and everything setting you over. So again, I think it starts in the morning or it starts how you set up your day. With my two-year-old, we do affirmations. He goes, you know, I am incredible. I am amazing. I can do anything. You know, as corny as that is, start your day with something that's enjoyable. So whether that's your, you know, your warm lemon water in the morning or giving your spouse or your partner, you know, a quick kiss before you roll out of bed.

9:13Um, something that can be that start to a stacking of good things. And then, um, you know, there, there's a lot of things that we can do to mitigate it, but the biggest problems that come from chronic stress are a lack of productivity anywhere. Um, you've probably felt that you've probably been burnt out, John, where you're in podcasts or meetings and you're just trying to get through it. You're maybe stumbling on your words a bit. And it's that sensation in the back of your head that's like, I need to go to bed or I need to get out of this situation. And it comes back to that feeling of being, you know, chased after by a bear or that stage fright feeling, but you're not on stage.

9:53You're just maybe in a zoom meeting and that's coming from being chronically stressed.

9:57John Lee Dumas:Fire Nation. We don't want that chronic stress for all the reasons that Jordan was just saying. I mean, this is critical stuff and we have a lot more to talk about the nervous system regulation, the physiological safety and influence, and oh, so much more when we get back from thanking our sponsors. Trying to get a traditional bank loan for your business, it's slow, it's complicated, and it rarely moves at the speed you need. With tighter lending standards and more hoops than ever, you're often left waiting when you need capital now. That's why I want to tell you about Revenued. Revenued is built for small business owners who need fast, flexible access to working capital without relying on your personal credit score.

10:35John Lee Dumas:Instead, they look at your actual business revenue. With the Revenued Flex line, you can access funds in as little as one business day. And as you pay it back, your available capital replenishes. So it's there when you need it. Now, this isn't your traditional bank loan. It's designed to flex with your business. And that's exactly why over 10 ,000 business owners are using Revenued to keep things moving. There's a reason Revenued is rated excellent on Trustpilot with a thousand five-star reviews. Give your business the flexibility to handle whatever comes next. Apply now at revenued.com slash fire.

11:07John Lee Dumas:That's revenued with a D dot com slash fire. Apply today and be ready for whatever comes next. Fire Nation, I know you've been sitting on an amazing idea. Well, it's time to move from one day I'll launch this project to taking action. Seriously, the barrier is way lower than you think. And that's where Hostinger comes in. Hostinger is your all-in-one home base to get online, domain, website, hosting, business email, even email marketing all in one place. No tech headaches, no juggling five different tools at the same time. So many people never pursue their dreams because it feels complicated or expensive.

11:42John Lee Dumas:Hostinger flips that script. You can go from idea to MVP in minutes by chatting with AI and it's incredibly affordable so you can't use cost as an excuse. Millions of people trust Hostinger to power their online presence and now it's your turn. Head over to hostinger.com slash onfire and use code onfire for 20 % off and build your site today. You are Fire Nation and Fire Nation takes action. Hostinger.com slash onfire. That's H-O-S-T-I-N-G-E-R.com slash onfire. Fire Nation, if you are building a real business, you need real infrastructure. That is why High Level is Entrepreneur on Fire's featured partner.

12:23John Lee Dumas:High Level gives you a website builder and hosting, funnels and landing pages, email marketing, appointment scheduling, payment processing, course and membership hosting, and so much more. Everything you need to succeed all under one roof. No duct tape, no juggling five platforms, just one clean system for your business. And their award-winning 24-7 support has your back when you need it most. When you sign up at highlevelfire.com, you also get my exclusive bonus stack, a 30-day free trial, a private 15-minute call with me, JLD, access to my weekly live office hours, a digital copy of my book, The Common Path to Uncommon Success, my 50 Days to Something Execution Roadmap, and more.

13:03John Lee Dumas:Visit highlevelfire.com and start building your something today. Jordan, we're back, and I want to talk about nervous system regulation. So nervous system regulation, I mean, it gets thrown around a lot right now. What does it actually mean? It means the systems you set in place to have a regulated nervous system. So we have two things. We have fight or flight and rest and digest. So you have your parasympathetic nervous system and your sympathetic nervous system. Now, our sympathetic nervous system serves a purpose. You know, back in the day, a couple of days ago, you know, back when we were cavemen, we were being chased, hunted.

13:45Life was unsafe. So we lived in something called our sympathetic nervous system. And that's so that we can get out of the way. We can fight or we can flee, you know, fight or flight. But the parasympathetic nervous system is where you want to reside. You want it to be your nervous system home. And that's called rest and digest for a reason. because when you're chronically stressed, you won't digest your food. And so if your first step is to change your diet, well, that's great. I think that that's an incredible step in your journey. If you're chronically stressed, you won't be able to digest your nutrients.

14:16So nervous system regulation means building the tools and the systems in place to live a regulated life. So what that looks like for me is I have systems thinking, approach to problem solving. So when something is alerting me or triggering me, I'm able to become aware of it. And that secondary consciousness or that aware consciousness is where things can start to feel better. So if you've ever been in a situation where something's made you mad and you become aware of it, you're on your way to a regulated nervous system because you now have a choice. You can choose what you would like to focus on, what you'd like your language to be, and how you'd like to be physiologically.

14:58So I believe that there's three things that you can do. You can move your body, you can change your focus, and you can change your language. And those all lead to a regulated nervous system.

15:06John Lee Dumas:So you just said the word. I want to talk a little deeper about it, about the physiological safety and influence. I mean, what is the connection between a leader's internal physiological safety and their ability to influence, their ability to inspire and elevate their entire team's performance? I want to relate it to a story. I have someone in my life that I went to university with. His name is Parker Lewis, and he's one of the happiest individuals I've ever met. And with my coach, somebody that I work with, I built a triad on how I want to appear in the world towards my team. And I called it the Parker Lewis triad.

15:42So if you've ever had someone in your life that is a chronic energy drainer, we all have those. Parker's the exact opposite. So he was like a ray of light for me. He was always happy, always supportive, always lifting me up. And as a leader, it's impossible for you to be Parker Lewis if you're stuck in a negative energy state. It is impossible to shift from negative energy to positive energy for someone else if you're negative inside. So the first thing that you have to do to get out of negative energy, as weird as it may be, is move your body. My wife will see me bouncing around doing jumping jacks, push-ups in my office before meetings, because I want to get into a state where my blood flow is strong.

16:21I'm happy. I'm excited. And then I start focusing on things that are going right. And my language is always that it'll always work out, you know, instead of my language being like, this is stressful. This is scary. I changed my state. I changed my language and I focus on the things that I can control and the focus on things that are going well. I think that we live in a world where there's always something going wrong. Thanks to the media, we can focus on that. You know, there's something going wrong in our personal lives, our smaller community, and then also the greater world, there's always going to be something going wrong.

16:51And there's ways to address that. But there's always something going right. So at the same time, you have the ability to pivot your focus. And, you know, there's toxic positivity. And we're not talking about that. But when you're a leader and you're engaged with your workforce in a positive way, it's stacking that positive energy throughout each and every individual employee on your team. So if you go to someone and you gave them praise for something that they did well and you meant it and it was an actual compliment, the likelihood of that person doing the same for somebody else is exponential.

17:26But if you go to someone and instead of giving them praise for what they did well, you're in a negative state and you immediately critique something that they haven't done well, the odds of someone doing that to the next person have just increased. So what you're doing as a leader is you're almost diversifying your energy across your whole team. And you're the person that starts with it.

17:46John Lee Dumas:Let's talk about practical daily shifts, because I think a lot of my listeners, they can implement these things. I mean, you've seen it because, you know, you work with leaders who are operating at a high level. So what are some simple daily shifts that can do a few things? maybe increase clarity, increase resilience, and maybe increase just overall long-term capacity instead of, as you were mentioning earlier, slowly draining it? Yeah. The first thing I would state is eliminate living in a rush. So that starts in the morning. We typically do things the same way, whether it's go to work, brush our teeth, shower, you know, your morning routine, whether you liked it or not is the same and you never got to choose it.

18:30So I think the first thing I would tell leaders is let's get out of that rushed mentality. That that's the first thing. The second thing is multitasking, I think is a myth and we can do multiple things, but when we're getting into a focused or a flow state and a flow state comes from a regulated nervous system, you know, when you feel like you're in flow state and you don't want to stop the activity that you're doing. Oh yeah. That's, that's a regulated nervous system. So to get into a flow state, you have to be focused on one thing. So that comes back to like our physiology, our focus and our language.

19:02So physiological component is how we move our body. So I think that that's understated in today. So I don't mean go to the gym and do a HIIT workout every morning. But when you do get up, you know, get your blood flow moving because you can't make a decision from a place of a negative state. And when you wake up, you're stagnant energy. You're rolling out of bed. Maybe you're sore. Maybe you're tight. get your blood flow moving before you start making any decisions. Then your focus, focus on things that are going well, celebrate yourself. I think leaders do not celebrate themselves enough. There's a lot of, you know, missing self-love it's evident.

19:40And you know, the focus. So the focus is on things that are going well, but it's also a singular focus. And then your language is on how everything can work out. I think that as humans, we're programmed to think about things that cannot work out because we think we can control them. But the truth is also that we can focus on things that can work out. And it's more important to focus on the things that are going well and continue to improve them than it is to dwell on the things that aren't going well without coming up for a method of improvement. So, you know, there's, there's like, um, there's a framework that we can run through, but the simplistic format of it is just to make sure that you're in a state that you enjoy being in before you make any decisions.

20:26John Lee Dumas:Okay. First off, I'm kind of glad you stumbled over the word physiological because I was practicing that word for like five minutes before we had this interview. Cause I'm like, Oh my God, if I stumble over this word, Jordan's going to make fun of me. So I practiced and I was so proud of myself. So just good to know that it's not a hard word just for me, but Jordan, what I want to do is have you close with a bang? Like what is the one thing of everything we talked about here today that you would really want our listeners to walk away with? And then of course, give a call to action where we can connect with you, learn more about you overall, just whatever call to action you feel is right for our listeners today.

21:06Yes. So the one thing that I would like to leave everybody with, if everything was erased from our conversation is that it's beyond okay to seek support. Whether you're a leader, whether you're an employee, whether you're a manager, trying to do everything on your own can lead to that feeling of overwhelm, burnout and frustration. You know, that's what we do as a business is we provide empathetic support across the board. So I run a business called Hatch Path and we're a one on one solution for burnout for employers. But we do it in a variety of ways. We have really cool practitioners, everything from hypnotist to spirituality coaches, relationship coaches, transition from the military coaches and everything in between.

21:49And, you know, we use a concierge system to pair people with the right coaches so that they can start to unwind their challenges and build systems to feel confident in the workplace. And we show about a 4.2 ROI. So if you're wanting to connect with us, our website is simply HatchPath.io. and I think we'll spell that out somewhere. And all of our connections are there. We also have Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, you name it. But yeah, that's what I'd like to leave it with.

22:22John Lee Dumas:Awesome. And yeah, I'll spell it out right now. H-A-T-C-H, Hatch, Path, P-A-T-H, dot I-O. Because Fire Nation, you're the average. Of the five people you spend the most time with, you've been hanging out with JD and JLD today. So keep up that heat. And for links to everything we talked about, visit eofire.com. Type Jordan in the search bar. The show notes page will pop right up to links to everything, Jordan's website, et cetera, et cetera. Jordan, thank you for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your value with Fire Nation today. For that, we salute you and we will catch you on the flip side.

22:55Thank you so much, John.