What 100+ Fathers Reveal About Successful Leadership at Home and Work with Derek Notman & H. Adam Holt

0:01John Lee Dumas:Boom! Shake the room, Fire Nation. JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire, brought to you by High Level, the all-in-one sales and marketing platform. Today we'll be breaking down what 100 plus fathers reveal about successful leadership at home and work. To drop these five bonds, I brought to Derek Notman and H. Adam Holt in the EO Fire Studios. Derek is a founder, entrepreneur, and devoted dad, helping fathers lead with purpose at home and at work. He co-authored Rebel Dad after interviewing 100 fathers worldwide. Adam is the CEO and founder of AssetMap, a wealth tech firm simplifying financial planning visually and co-founder of Rebel Dads.

0:37John Lee Dumas:And today we talk about the hidden costs of success, the birth of Rebel Dads, 100 fathers, one question, the seven pillars of intentional fatherhood, and oh, so much more. And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Derek, Adam, and our sponsors. If you are building a real business, you need real infrastructure. High Level gives you website hosting, funnels, email marketing, automation, calendar booking, payments, and course hosting all on one platform, plus award-winning 24-7 support. Get a 30-day free trial and my full bonus stack that includes a 50-minute private call with me and much more at highlevelfire.com.

1:13John Lee Dumas:Highlevelfire.com. Fire Nation, 50 days will fly right on by. The only question is, will you have something to show for it? I created a free YouTube series called 50 Days to Something, a step-by-step path to build a real product, service, or offer in just 50 focused days. Start today for free at eofire.com slash YouTube. Derek, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. Hey, John. Great to be with you, my man. Thank you very much. Hello, everybody. So what is one thing that most successful people disagree with? Well, honestly, I think that it's they disagree with that success without alignment really isn't success.

2:02And so let me elaborate on that. Society tends to measure success by things like revenue, our titles, how many followers we have on social media, our net worth, the cars we drive. And let's face it, those things are great. but we've also met a lot of people who have achieved all of those things, but still at the end of the day, kind of felt disconnected from their families, their mental and physical health, just themselves in general. And so through Rebel Dads and all the, you know, the interviewing we did for the book, what Adam and I found is that a lot of people who felt most fulfilled weren't necessarily the wealthiest or had the most followers or anything like that.

2:39They're the ones whose actions actually match their priorities. They built businesses. They also had strong marriages, meaningful relationships with their kids. You know, they had lives that they were proud of. And those things actually tended to end up leading to some financial rewards. But it wasn't like the end goal. It was the byproduct, if that makes sense.

2:58John Lee Dumas:It does make sense. And Fire Nation, that's why we're going to be diving today into what 100 plus fathers reveal about successful leadership, both at home and at work. And of course, I have both Derek and Adam on the mic to talk about this. And I want to start with you, Adam, when we talk about the hidden cost of success. Can you share why? Why are so many high-achieving fathers winning in business on one hand, but then they're feeling disconnected at home? You know, JLD, it's great to see you and also be with the community here. I think this is really an interesting one. Derek touches on it with his first statement.

3:35But also as a high-performing person trying to push myself, both of us have created multiple businesses, you know, we're entrepreneurs at heart and we love what you're doing at UF. I think that there's, there's a real misnomer that a lot of dads and men specifically don't know how to show up for their family in this kind of new environment. A lot of us got messed up by the pandemic. A lot of us kind of like lost our communities, moved around, you know, transitioned away from other people, did whatever we did. And I think we lost a lot of community. And I think the sacrifice that we've seen that just keeps coming up again and again is how little community we really have and how I would say lonely men are starting to feel.

4:15So I think the interesting thing about success is it's easy to bury down and get really busy on work, try to build something awesome. But I gotta say, there's times for a lot of people it's feeling kind of empty. So I think we need to find a way to fill it with stuff that is actually fulfilling. Derek, what do you wanna add to that? You know, I don't think the challenge is that fathers don't love their families. I think really what it comes down to is that like, When we're talking about work, entrepreneurship, businesses, there are really simple scorecards we all are familiar with. Revenue, did I get the job promotion, did I get that next customer, what's my growth look like?

4:50But when we're at home, the winds tend to be a bit quieter. There's not like these reports we get on how well we did over the last month or quarter with our family. And so I think that there's a challenge there. and ultimately though that like what we found is that the dads who were really like doing better there that leadership you know really actually those skills about presence listening empathy trust all those things those are the things that made great leaders regardless if they were at home or work so it's not really working hard that's the problem it's it's drifting away from the people you're working hard for yeah I think that let me I gotta throw something here because I think one of the things that's really evident to us in this whole project we were doing to try to figure out how to be a better leader at home was also to recognize, and Derek touches on it, is that we don't measure, you know, kind of what is the state of our family.

5:44We don't look at it like a venture and say, hey, am I performing? What are my metrics? What are my numbers? In fact, all the feedback we get is almost entirely emotional. It's an outburst from a kid. It's bad behavior. It's, you know, a disappointed spouse. It's a fight out of left field, it's unfortunately really, really challenging to kind of manage it and create any intention around it because we've never been taught how to manage it other than by trying to be a good, stable person. But I think there's some really interesting cues we can take from entrepreneurship to apply to the family venture.

6:15John Lee Dumas:Yeah. And I'm excited to dive deeper into some of those cues. But first, let's get into the birth of Rebel Dads and Fire Nation. This is Rebel, R-E-B-L, Rebel Dads. Derek, take us back to the beginning. How do the conversations with different entrepreneurial fathers, like including gatherings on Necker Island, which is pretty sweet, by the way. How did those spark what eventually became Rebel Dads and then now the book? Rebel Dads really came out of like a search that I had for answers for some really hard questions about how to be a better dad, but also better leader at work. And it's a personal journey of mine.

6:51Like my parents divorced when I was very young. um my dad was not a great role model let's put it that way and and not really the the person I needed uh to have around to model what would healthy behaviors would be like and so I really as many entrepreneurs entrepreneurs do became obsessed with just building something meaningful and went down that path of entrepreneurship and then happened to have my son around the same time that I jumped in full on entrepreneurship, I'm like, man, this is really hard. It's really hard doing both. So I started looking for a community of dads that understood both roles and the duality of them and how they mix together.

7:33And I couldn't find what I was looking for. And so I had just like, it kind of like the universe works in funny ways. Like, well, Richard Branson's a pretty awesome rebel dad. Wouldn't it be cool to do some events on Necker with him and other dad, like-minded dads. And I eventually got ahold of Richard and his team, pitched him the idea, said yes, committed to do something financially. I was not prepared to actually pay for. And I'm like, Hey, Adam, I need help, brother. Let's do this thing. And Adam was the first yes. And we ended up making it happen. So we've been there many times. It led into a book that we've now written with Richard.

8:12And just, it's been a really fascinating journey. Just learning more and more from dads about, you know, what they're doing to be better at home and work.

8:20John Lee Dumas:See, to me, this is really inspiring when you can see Fire Nation, the birth of something from the ground level and what that creates. And I love how you were honest there, Derek. And you said, listen, like financially, this was scary. Like I wasn't prepared for that, but I took the leap because I knew it was Richard Branson. I knew it was Necker Island and I knew I had people like Adam to help me out. So let's kind of move to that, Adam, talking about a hundred fathers in one question because you interviewed more than 100 fathers from different industries, from countries. I mean, we're even talking multiple in many different stages of life.

8:51John Lee Dumas:So what were the biggest surprises and the biggest lessons that emerged from that? You know, it's interesting because we didn't know what to expect kind of going in this. We, as Derek said, we would gather 30-some dads, CEOs, entrepreneurs to get together on Necker, and we would talk about, you know, what were they learning? What were the challenges they were having? You know, really a true community mastermind. We were getting a lot of experiences, there are commonly quotes, you know, people are crying, people are laughing, people are hugging, they're making friends. And we actually built the community that we really were lacking.

9:19And when we expanded that to the hundred interviews that we did literally globally in the time that Richard had said, we're going to write a book, you need to have the manuscript on my desk. And by November of 2025, we're like, oh my gosh, we better get to work. We learned an enormous amount. I think we probably won the most out of this whole game because we got conversations, intimate conversations with CEOs that we could really relate to and also sharing stories that, boy, gosh, you would just, you know, you'd be surprised, impressed, scared. And we tried to do our best job, JLD, on putting that into something that was consumable in the book.

9:55But I think that there are a couple of themes that really came out of this book that were pretty prolific. And one of them that's really strong is our first one, which is intentional presence. I had always been of the belief, similar to Derek, because I grew up also in a single parent home and didn't have that male role figure the way I would have liked that when I was going to be a father, I was going to be ultra present. I was going to be there on like I was at every game, every event, every dinner, every breakfast. You know, I was going to be super present. But it turns out what we were seeing is that the most successful fathers really also were intentional about how they were present.

10:28We can all you know, we all carry around devices these days. You could be sitting there at dinner and maybe you have your phone out or think that people think you're listening, but you're really checked out watching TV together. How you show up really matters. And I think if there's one thing to take from this book, it's to really be thoughtful about how you are being present, not just to physically be there, not to raise your hand, say, hey, I'm in the classroom present, but actually to be paying attention to what's going on around you. That was a big one.

10:55John Lee Dumas:Derek, what's one thing you want to add to that? We can see success and it does leave clues about things we've learned and things we could do better. But one of the things that came out of all these conversations was that regrets also leave clues. And a lot of the dads that we talked to, you know, and what actually helped form these these pillars that we that we've, you know, these common themes we've pulled out in the book. was that is the regrets, the things that the dads didn't do or they did wrong or they forgot to do were just as valuable in their journey and becoming a better dad and a better leader at work.

11:32And it was really interesting. It wasn't like this path to perfection, but more of just, as Adam said, this path to being more present.

11:39John Lee Dumas:Regrets leave clues. That's a powerful statement, Fire Nation, leading us into our break. When we come back, we got a lot to talk about. So stick around. Fire Nation, if you are building a real business, you need real infrastructure. That is why High Level is Entrepreneur on Fire's featured partner. High Level gives you a website builder and hosting, funnels and landing pages, email marketing, appointment scheduling, payment processing, course and membership hosting, and so much more. Everything you need to succeed all under one roof. No duct tape, no juggling five platforms, just one clean system for your business.

12:13John Lee Dumas:and their award-winning 24-7 support has your back when you need it most. When you sign up at highlevelfire.com, you also get my exclusive bonus stack, a 30-day free trial, a private 15-minute call with me, JLD, access to my weekly live office hours, a digital copy of my book, The Common Path to Uncommon Success, my 50 Days to Something Execution Roadmap, and more. Visit highlevelfire.com and start building your something today. Fire Nation, If you've ever thought, I know I'm capable of more, but you're not sure where to start, I've created something for you. It's called 50 Days to Something. Not 50 Days to Perfection, not 50 Days to Overnight Millions, just 50 focused days to build something that matters.

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13:37John Lee Dumas:The question is, will you have something to show for it? All right, Adam, we're back and I want to start with you as we talk about the seven pillars of intentional fatherhood because your research, it uncovered recurring themes around presence, around identity experiences, trust, action, and legacy. So what are the pillars and why do they matter? You know, it's interesting. We didn't expect it to be so obvious when we first started writing this book. And you ask a bunch of dads about their fatherhood, their childhood, what they learned from their own father, how they actually use that to create an intentional experience with their own children or not at all.

14:10They just winged it and kind of they got what they got. You know, these seven themes that keep popping up, Jody, is really interesting. And I'll share them from top to bottom. We then organized all of these interviews, which you could read. They're basically snippeted into two pages for our attention deficit world. Who wants to just read this really fast? They are number one, intentional presence, how you show up matters and being thoughtful around that. Number two, bonding through shared experiences was really big. We found that some of the most successful dads that really created opportunities to meet with their kids, you know, one-on-one, multiple times a year has really built, you know, family memories, inside jokes, and the things that really last.

14:51Number three was creating trusted space. I think this was really interesting. We're seeing a lot of kids having a tendency to lie and to, you know, cheat and we see character flaws. If you don't create a trusted space intentionally for the kids, they're going to, they're going to, you know, they're not going to share with you what really matters. So this was really critical in today's environment. Number four was learning through exposure. And that was really big for Richard as well. We saw that was a big theme in terms of making sure that you're exposing your kids to not only things outside of the box, but different cultures, different peoples, different, you know, socioeconomic backgrounds.

15:28That's a really big one that unfortunately a lot of us missed today. And then the last three were really, I think, aspirational. One is really act now, not later. It's urgency. We found it was a lot of intention around do it now, stop waiting. We don't have years and years. One of our authors, Jim Shields, is known for 18 summers. We have 18 summers with our kids. We don't get many more. Identity and integrity was a real big one. What's the family name? Are you representing? Are you holding on to that? And what's the legacy you're leaving as last is, are we creating intentional legacy, not just monetarily, but also values?

16:03Are we being intentional about teaching our kids how to be resourceful and thrive into the next generation? So that's all seven in a package. You still got to read the book to understand what they mean.

16:14John Lee Dumas:I was just going to say, you got to read the book, Fire Nation. That's just a little tease. That's a little tapa, so to speak. Hopefully you're hungry for those morsels to nibble on a little more to get to the next level. But I want to talk with you, Derek, about lessons from extraordinary dads. What would you say is the most memorable insight from fathers who successfully balanced leadership at work and at home? And of course, Adam, I'm coming to you next, so you can be thinking about it while Derek answers. The most memorable insight from fathers who successfully balanced leadership at work and home?

16:48That's a great question because we've got so many examples, but I'm actually going to have to go back to a story or an example that Richard shared while we actually interviewed him on Necker. And he talked about his son, Sam, who is in the book as well. Pretty interesting story there. But he really talked about the importance of letting your kids fail, about letting them, you know, fall off the bike, about make mistakes. And I mean, let's face it, Richard's in a position where he could kind of bubble wrap his kids, if you will. And he chose not to, and to let them fail, to explore and to grow.

17:29And it was really just a great, great thing to hear and see that even someone at his level is still doing that. It was beautiful. So I think that's probably the biggest one that really comes to mind. And then, you know, there was a lot of other smaller ones. Like there was a lot of lessons that were taught through just simple, you know, almost weekly experiences like, hey, I'm going to go have a special breakfast with my kid once a week. And it's dedicated time where nothing else, you know, interferes. Little things like that. The little traditions also matter quite a bit.

18:00John Lee Dumas:That's powerful to me. And there's actually a book called Anti-Fragile, which I'm a huge proponent of. And it talks so deeply about the problems that happen when you raise a fragile child. And that fragile child, guess what? They're eventually going to have to enter the real world. And what happens with a fragile child? Well, when they hit their first failure, they break, they shatter, they crumble. But what happens when you raise an anti-fragile child? When an anti-fragile human enters the real world, they're expecting to fail. They know that's part of the world that we live in. And they're going to get back up.

18:37John Lee Dumas:They're going to learn. They're going to adjust. They're going to pivot. And they're going to keep driving forward. And I love a quote that's, show me somebody who's never failed and I'll show you a failure. So Adam, on to you. The most memorable insight from these fathers. You know, there's some interesting things that came out of it. I think for me, it was this whole idea of mindset and actions, right? When you interview this many people, you start to pick up these themes. I wanted to actually zoom out even further and say, how do we help our friends and our dads and our community? And all of you out there in our entrepreneurial community, be intentional about what you're creating.

19:14You know, like if you want to live a longer life, just spend more of your time living your intentions, living your purpose, living your passion, maybe your faith. You know, I think we have the opportunity to be choiceful about it. And one of the things that I kept picking up is that these, especially the successful ones, the leaders thought about how they were intentional and how their mindset and their actions aligned with their intentions. It was a really interesting stage. We call it the am I statement and the I am statement. Do my intentions, are they supported by my actions and my mindsets?

19:44And the way to basically for us to help dads, it's not just say, okay, that's what you should do, right? Because there's plenty of, you know, prophetic books that are saying, this is what you should have done. This is what you should do. How do you actually pull it off? How do you actually build it? And so we actually took these interviews and we broke it down into 300 micro actions you can just do in the next 24 hours. So just take one, try this with your kids or your partner or your spouse or your company in the next 24 hours. Just try this. It'll take you 15 minutes. And then if it works, do it again.

20:14If it works, do it again. If it doesn't work, okay, next. Try something else. So I think the key for us was to recognize that these are some really big, even societal changing things that we can make a difference in, but it's going to happen one 15-minute action at a time.

20:27John Lee Dumas:Man, that's powerful. Fire Nation, there's so many things that we can learn from this conversation. Think about the things that we can learn from this book. So I want to stay with you, Adam, and talk about starting today. So for fathers who are listening right now, what is the one practical action they can take immediately? And again, if they're listening, um, when this episode is going live, it's father's day. So happy father's day. What's one action they can take immediately to create a lasting impact on their families. It's a great question. You want to just do one thing out of the 300 we told you you could do.

20:59Uh, it's unfair and to, to, to certainly to come to one, but I would say this, one of the things that's coming up in all of our conversations is what is the a right balance between digital and analog lifestyle, right? Most of us grew up in an analog lifestyle. That means without a device in a pocket in our hand. These kids are growing up mostly with them and they're seeing everybody else and some of us included with these devices in our pockets in our hands, three, four, five, 10 hours a day. It is a scary proposition that we have no precedent for. None of us really know what this is going to mean for our kids, especially the social media context.

21:37I think that there is a general agreement amongst all of us that we really have to temper how we're modeling behavior, especially when we're with other people, and how we use digital devices. And if we don't, don't be surprised when the default answer is basically, we don't look anybody else in the eye anymore. We just look at their screens and we just barely recognize each other. I think that's really scary. And I'm going to sound like an old guy here at 52, but I'm telling you, I think we really need to be mindful of our own actions because it's not just us watching our kids on stage. We're on stage too.