What is Your Working Genius? with Pat Lencioni: An EOFire Classic from 2021

0:01Boom! Shake the room, Fire Nation. JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire. brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the ideal destination for business professionals with great shows like Creator Science. Today, we're pulling a timeless EO Fire episode from the archives, so the giveaway may not be active. And we'll be breaking down what is your working genius. To drop these value bombs, we are brought to Pat Lencioni and EO Fire Studios. Pat is a founder of The Table Group and author of 12 bestselling books, including The Five Dysfunctions of a Team and The Advantage. He is considered one of the nation's leading experts on leadership, teamwork, and organizational health.

0:40And today, Foundation, we'll be talking about using your God-given talent. We'll talk about how exhausting it is to work outside of your zone of genius. So stay in there and so much more. And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Pat and our sponsors. Artificial intelligence has made a splash in the headlines, and for good reason. The digital landscape is changing quickly, and AI is a huge part of that. If you're feeling behind the curve, don't worry. HubSpot has got your back. HubSpot's AI power tools, including their content assistant and chat spot, are a perfect place to start learning the power of AI.

1:16Here's how they work. HubSpot's content assistant helps you brainstorm, create, and share content in no time. And you can do it all right inside their super easy to use CRM platform. And with chat spot, HubSpot's conversational bot and CRM whiz, you can not only quickly pull up reports for data and metrics, but also learn how to automate manual tasks inside HubSpot for better engagement with customers and more closed deals. Bottom line, these tools run on OpenAI's GPT model, and both are designed to help you get more done, all while growing a better business faster. Find out more about how to use AI to grow your business at hubspot.com slash artificial dash intelligence.

1:55Is this your year? Visit thrivetimeshow.com to see testimonials of how Clay Clark's business coaching has helped over 2 ,000 entrepreneurs to dramatically increase profitability. It's month to month and less money than an average minimum wage employee. Schedule your free consultation today at thrivetimeshow.com. Pat, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something interesting about yourself that most people don't know. How you doing, Fire Nation? I had obsessive compulsive disorder my entire life, and I didn't know it until I was 25. And it is so amazing to look back and see how many of my blessings came from my difficulties.

2:39And though I wouldn't wish something like that on anybody, it's actually shaped me and provided me with some opportunities that I didn't have. So I guess I would just say sometimes the challenges are actually blessings in disguise. Well, I love that you shared that because it's actually kind of themed today. I've done now over 2 ,600 interviews and nobody's ever shared that specifically for the first 2 ,700, except the person I just interviewed two days ago. Like literally, he's like, I can't leave the house if I think a light might be on. He's like, I sometimes have to go back into the house and just like check every room just in case.

3:16He's like, there never was a light on. He's like, but I still have to go check it out. So that's really fascinating. Yeah, for sure. I don't know if you've ever seen the show Girls, by the way, on HBO. No, I'm familiar with it, but I haven't seen it. They do a lot of great episodes in a row, like three or four in a row, where the main character actually is really dealing with some difficult OCD and that kind of stuff. And it's really awesome, but how they're kind of bringing that to the mainstream and showing how that can, A, affect you, but B, it's not that uncommon. It's just a reality that a lot of people have to deal with.

3:49So very cool stuff all the way around. and Fire Nation, as you heard in the intro, we're gonna be talking about some really cool things. We're gonna be talking about your working genius. So Pat, you've created a lot of awesome things. What exactly is a working genius, your most recent creation here? It's a God-given gift or talent that people have that gives them energy and joy and that they're really good at, which they're meant to use in the course of getting things done. Not everybody has all the working geniuses. And nobody does. There's six of these things, and two of them are something you love.

4:26Two of them are something you really hate. And there's too many people in the world that are doing the wrong things and wondering why they're not happy or successful. And when you figure out what your working geniuses are and your working frustrations, it can change your career and change your life. Fire Nation, I hope you're listening close because I hope you know what my next question is gonna be, which is what are these six types? And I want you to be sitting there, Fire Nation, and identifying the two that you love, the two that you hate. It'll be very fascinating. We're gonna be getting into some more details and specifics around that.

4:57So Pat, take it away. What are the six types? The first type of working genius is one that people don't even recognize as a genius. It's called the gift or the genius of wonder. And these are people that can sit and ponder things for a long time. And they contemplate and they think about, is there something missing here? Could this be better? Whether it's, is our product really the right one? Are our customers happy? Is there a better way to do this? Is there potential here that we're not realizing? And people who can sit in that and ponder are a genius in the sense that every organization needs them.

5:35I was just with an executive team of a multi-billion dollar software company, and they didn't have any executives on their team that had the genius of wonder. And at first, they were kind of skeptical. And then when we went through their business, they realized nobody ever pondered what was missing at their company and what their customers were going through. And the CFO said, if we don't sit and ponder more, we're never going to be able to come up with a new product. We're never going to see what's missing. And so the genius of wonder is the first one, and it's really important in any venture, in any activity.

6:07But it's not enough. You know, it's one thing to realize that something's missing or something's wrong or something could be better, but somebody has to come up with a solution. And this is the second genius, which is the genius of invention. The genius of invention is people who like to come up with something new, original, novel, out of nothing to solve problems, whether it's a product or an approach or an idea or a concept. Some people are just naturally gifted and they love creating new ideas. That doesn't mean they came up with the need, but they love to solve the problem. So the genius of wonder needs somebody with the genius of invention.

6:49And a lot of entrepreneurs have this, but it's not the only genius because not everything that somebody with the genius of invention comes up with is actually good. They need somebody with the third genius, which is the genius of discernment. The genius of discernment is instinct and intuition and judgment, the kind of people that know how to curate and assess an idea or a product, and they just know whether it's good or not. And they know how to tweak things, or they know how to evaluate things, and they push back on the inventor and they do an iterative process in making it better. Or they say, hey, I've seen this before, I think, and this is a bad idea.

7:29And they save the inventor from doing the wrong thing. We actually presented this stuff to one of the most innovative companies in America. And the guy in charge of innovation said, we come up with inventions and we just throw them against the wall and hope they stick. We have totally missed out on the genius of discernment. And as a result, a lot of things failed that they could have caught earlier or tweaked and act. And they're going to try to change the way they're organized to make those things work. So the genius of wonder, the genius of invention, the genius of discernment. Once you've discerned something, you think it's a great idea.

8:06Then comes the genius of galvanizing. Now I don't have this one, but I often have to do it. And it drains me of my energy. The genius of galvanizing is when you say, this is a great idea. Let's go get people excited. Let's go recruit people, tell people about it, sell it. Let's fire people up. And if you're an entrepreneur, you know, you have to do a lot of these things and it's a gift. And some people love it. They love moving people and getting momentum and recruiting and inspiring. Other people hate it. And so the genius of galvanizing is required. Organizations that don't have it find that they have really good ideas that never really come about and they need a galvanizer.

8:48They need somebody with this natural skill. The next genius is the genius of enablement and enablement is a good thing. It's not like enabling an alcoholic. Enablement is the kind of people that can hear that pitch from the galvanizer and say, I will help. I know how I can help you. I will do it. I will do it in the way you need it. And I understand that. And I will help this get off the ground by coming alongside you and providing what you're asking for. It's a gift. Too many people think that that's easy or that you're just nice, but it's actually a genius that many people don't have. And an organization with brilliant ideas, but without anyone with the genius or the gift of enablement is going to find that things just don't move forward.

9:31And then the final genius is the genius of tenacity. That's a person that doesn't just want to help somebody. they want to make sure that something actually gets finished. They push things across the line. They want to make sure that the idea or the product or the endeavor has impact. They are inspired by making sure things get finished and they do not get energy if things aren't getting done. So those are the six types of working genius. We each have two of them, but for everyone, two of them are areas of distinct weakness and frustration and two are in the middle. Wow. Well, I can tell you writing these down and I'll go through them real quick, Fire Nation.

10:10I can 100 % identify my number one weakness and I definitely have the two that I feel like are my genius. So going through the genius of wonder, the genius of invention, the genius of discernment, then galvanizing, then enabling, then tenacity. Number one, I mean, that's my weakness. I just don't have that genius of wonder. I just don't sit around and ponder things. I've tried sometimes and I just don't do it. The two that I really was resonating with when you were going through this, Pat, was the genius of discernment and then the genius of galvanizing. Like I've really been able to identify great ideas in my life and then just rally people around them with like, you know, I've had multiple very successful Kickstarter campaigns, just getting my audience behind it, products, services, courses, all these different things.

10:56Those are two of my big geniuses right there. And I think enabling, I just don't feel like that as one of my geniuses. Because I might be getting this wrong, so maybe clarify this for me, but I'm kind of hearing that the enabler is a great number two, a number three, like a teammate, stuff like that. And for me, for better or for worse, it's just like I need to be the leader, the number one. I'm not going to join somebody's team. Am I getting that one right, or is that something else? Yeah, to a certain extent you are. And it's hard to admit, because I don't have, that's my lowest two. You and I share the lowest one, and that is I don't have the genius of enablement, which makes me feel like, man, am I not a nice guy I do not like to help people.

11:32You and I love to help people, but not necessarily on their terms. If they come to us and say, I need your help, you and I tend to go, well, let me actually figure out what you really need, not what you're asking for. That really resonates right there. Which doesn't make my wife happy sometimes, but I'm like, okay, I know you think you want me to clean the garage, but I really think this is what you need. And so we're just not good at helping people on their terms because we need to be more involved in the invention and the discernment and the galvanizing because we're similar, but there are other people in the world who hate invention and discernment and galvanizing.

12:06And they're like, please give me clear marching orders and tell me what you need me to do. And I will do it. I'm really resonating with this. It just makes total sense. And I can see it right away. Like you said, the ones that I love number three and four discernment and galvanizing, the ones that I'm just like, not me wonder and enabling for sure. Very fascinating. And I do feel like invention and tenacity, like I have those like qualities but definitely not to the genius level for sure. Now, let's kind of go through the six types of working geniuses, specifically where they came from. How did you create these?

12:41I have been using different assessments all my life. I'm kind of a, I love to learn about myself and learn about others. And I use them in my practice and the work I do. I have a small company. And one day this summer, in the middle of the COVID thing, I was on a Zoom call with 500 priests actually doing some leadership training. Yeah, it was fascinating. And then I got off the call and I was kind of giving people feedback who had organized the call and having to push them. And then it ended and I started coming up with these new ideas and I was talking to my co-founder and I was like, hey, we should do this and this.

13:09And she said, why are you the way you are? And I said, I don't know. But I can't help it. Some of it I hate. Some of it I love. I really wish I could figure it out. And that started a four-hour conversation, John. And by the end of that conversation, I had written on this whiteboard because I have whiteboards all over my office, these six circles. and I don't quite remember. It feels like I blacked out, but we came up with these six ideas. So I wrote it on the board. I went home, told my wife about it. I was on a call that night with one of our consultants and I wrote it on the board. I said, Hey, I came up with this idea today.

13:40The next morning he was talking to the CEO of a company and the CEO was saying, yeah, I'm kind of frustrated by some things on my team and in my organization. And the consultant said, Hey, wait a sec, let me show you something. He drew it on the board and the guy started crying. What? He was looking at and he said, I finally know why I'm so frustrated and why things aren't working. This is the biggest light bulb. And so within 12 hours of us coming up with the idea, a CEO was applying it because he didn't need but to have it explained to him quickly. And he said, this is the problem. And that's what we found about this tool.

14:14It's specifically related to getting things done. Entrepreneurs love it. They can quickly understand it and readjust their team, change the roles, even look at how they're influencing their organization, what they're good at and what they should stay out of. And it's such a quick application and it's so practical and applied. Pat, there are a lot of assessments out there. What specifically makes this assessment different? it. When I do the other assessments, and I love them because it's fascinating, the Myers-Briggs and there's DISC and there's the Enneagram and all these things. They're really interesting to understand like your personality and some of your deepest motivations.

14:54I'm an eight on the Enneagram, by the way. So you know what you are. Yeah. This one is actually applied to getting work done. It's like we have a new product we want to launch or a program we're running or a company or a startup, whatever it is, it's about getting things done. And this explains to you the different roles people play naturally. And it's allowed us to reorganize our company. After being in business for more than 20 years, we finally looked at this and said, Oh, that's why we hired a kid who was 22 years old, John. And he has the genius of galvanizing like you. He loves to get, you know, like, come on, you guys, let's do it.

15:34He was working on a team of people 20 years older than him who didn't like doing that. And they said, you're going to galvanize this team. He goes, what are you talking about? I just got out of college. I don't even know half the stuff you do. It doesn't matter. So he's loving his job and they're giving him permission to galvanize them because he's good at it. And that's the beauty of this. When, when people can actually come to terms with, oh, these are my geniuses and go to their boss or go to the people that they work with and say, if you want my best, I love doing these things. And by the way, these other things, I'll try it if you want me to, but I'm not great at it.

16:10It's so liberating. It's so liberating. Fire Nation, we have so many more interesting value bombs to talk about. We'll be talking about your specific areas of working genius, how this model has impacted Pat's life and organization and business, of course, and so much more when we get back from thanking our sponsors. Success Story, hosted by Scott D. Clary, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Success Story features Q &A sessions with successful business leaders, keynote presentations, and conversations on sales, marketing, business, startups, and entrepreneurship.

16:46One of Scott's recent episodes was with none other than Jack Canfield, where they discuss adapting to life's twists and turns. Listen to Success Story wherever you get your podcasts. Are you ready to grow your business now? What if you could learn the proven systems and processes that have been used to grow thousands of multi-million dollar success stories? At thrivetimeshow.com, see testimonials of how Clay Clark's proven business coaching has helped over 2 ,000 clients to increase profitability dramatically. Clay's proven business coaching program is month to month and less money than hiring a minimum wage employee.

17:19Sound too good to be true? Go to thrivetimeshow.com to see over 2 ,000 documented success stories Because Clay only takes on 160 clients, he personally designs your business plan for you. Then Clay's team of talented designers, videographers, web developers, workflow mappers, and accounting coaches will help you implement that proven plan. See over 2 ,000 verified success stories and schedule your free 101 13-point assessment with Mr. Clay Clark himself today at Thrivetimeshow.com. Knowledge will not attract money unless it is organized and directed through practical plans of action. become the next success story.

17:55Schedule your free 13-point assessment today at thrivetimeshow.com. So Pat, I want to talk about areas of genius, specifically the areas of genius, frustration, and competency. How can Fire Nation, how can we go about identifying these areas in our lives? Well, we have an assessment that's a great thing to do because it quickly, it takes 15 minutes to figure out that a report comes back and it explains all this and what you would do with it. And just to let you know, it costs 25 bucks to do, but I guess there's a discount for your folks. It's FIRE, capital letters, F-I-R-E. And so it's 50 % off.

18:33And so we really encourage you to do this. Talk to your family about it. Talk to your coworkers about it. The thing to think about is which of these things give you energy and what are you drawn to doing naturally? I there's a couple things here that I love to do and I will constantly want to do that now here's what's interesting though sometimes it's not necessary or appropriate and now my teammates and my wife can say hey I don't need your invention right now we're beyond invention stage we're looking for this it gives us language so we can avoid feeling guilty and avoid judging people but actually know what we should be doing and what we can do better.

19:17So in my family, my wife and I, of course, we went home and did this. Neither of us have tenacity. We looked back at our marriage and we said, oh, almost every argument we had, almost every frustration we had and continue to have is because neither of us like to finish things and follow through. We love coming up with new ideas. We love getting things started. and then we're like, I thought you were going to finish that. We are in the process of reorganizing and figuring out how we can outsource some things because it's going to save us from getting frustrated at one another and it's going to help our family.

19:53And that's the beauty of this. Whether we're planning a family vacation or I'm launching a new product or starting a new company, I'm going to know what I need from other people and I'm going to know what I bring to the table. So you just touched upon tenacity as not necessarily being your area of genius. and you know we've talked a little bit about because it seems like you and I are similar in some ways on this what your areas of genius actually are let's go a little bit deeper for you on this like what are your areas of working genius okay so I love invention and discernment so I could sit around all day long and you know what's funny John five years ago I said to people in my office you know what would be my perfect job I could sit at the end of this table here and you could parade people in a half hour at a time and they would say here's a problem and I would go, okay, I have an idea.

20:40Let's talk about it. Let's evaluate it. Let's figure out how it works. And I'd be using my instincts and my intuition and I'd send them out of the room and somebody else would go rally people around it and get it done. And I realize now why is because I love to invent. I can't help but invent. I do it in the shower. I do it when I'm exercising. And I love to discern. I love to curate things and evaluate things. And those are the two things I'm best at. My staff at work will tell me now we need your I or we need your D. And they know that if they're having me do other things outside of that, it's probably going to exhaust me.

21:15So we want to limit the amount of exposure I have to those. See, this is fascinating stuff, Fire Nation. Like when you can identify for yourself, which ones are really your areas of working genius, you focus there. That's your 80-20. That's where you're spending at least 80 % of your time and energy and focus because that's where you're going to be doing the best for your company. and then bring in other people who have the enabling, who have the tenacity that maybe you are lacking, whatever that might be, fill in those gaps. Now, let's talk specifically about how this has impacted your organization, Pat.

21:47Break that down for us. Okay, so here's the deal. The co-founders don't have galvanizing at all. It's what we call their working frustration. It's their lowest two. For me, it's in the middle. So every time I came up with a new idea, they would turn to me and say, well, you're going to have to galvanize around this. You're going to have to push the rock over the hill. And I got to the point where every time I invented something, I would get kind of bummed out because I knew it was going to mean that I had to do the galvanizing. So we looked at the rest of our company and we found two people in our organization who were strong on galvanizing and we raised them up and put them in roles that would take more of that off my plate.

22:24And it wouldn't force me to try to get the people that hated galvanizing to do it because I used to get frustrated at them. I used to judge them and say, hey, why don't you care enough to do this? And they're like, now I knew they hated that part of the job. And so now I don't have to feel guilty for what I'm not good at or judge them for what they're not good at. We looked at the entire landscape of our organization and we're putting people in seats that are really matched up with their natural, joy-filled, energy-giving activities. I mean, Fire Nation, how sweet would it feel for your organization to be running on their areas of working genius?

23:02Like if you knew that everybody on your team was sitting there and focused on their areas of genius, so they're happy, they're thriving, and they're operating at the top level of what their competency is, I mean, that's going to be just a great, fantastic feeling. So Pat, you shared a lot of awesomeness today. I mean, you've offered this great discount, FIRE, for 50 % off. So I mean, FIRE Nation, We're talking$12 and 50 cents. You can take this assessment and potentially change your life, your business's life, your relationship, as Pat was talking about with his wife that was like, oh, we don't like tenacity.

23:37Like that's why we never finish things. Like think about the value there. So Pat, what I want you to do is this. Give us one key takeaway of everything that we've talked about today that you really want to make sure Fire Nation gets. then give us the direct place that we can go to to enter promo code FIRE for 50 % off, and then we'll say goodbye. What I would say is this. Nobody should feel bad about wanting to use their God-given talents. That's why we're here, is to serve others and serve the world by using the talents we have. So instead of feeling guilty about that, lean into this and say, this is going to make me more valuable to the people around me.

24:16It's going to make me more fulfilled. It's going to make me a better person in the world. And so don't feel guilty about that. You are meant to do that. Pursue your geniuses. And you can do that by going to workinggenius.com. And there's two G's in there, workinggenius.com. And again, the code is FIRE. We just want the world to get in touch with their geniuses, be a lot happier people, a lot more successful organizations, and a better world, I think. Fire Nation, you're the average. Of the five people you spend the most time with. You've been hanging out with PL and JLD today. So keep up that heat and head over to eofire.com.