Why Healing and Wholeness must be at the Center of Building Lasting Emotional Intelligence with Scott Allender

0:01Light that spark fire nation JLD here and welcome to entrepreneurs on fire brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals with great shows like Finding Founders. Today, we'll be breaking down why healing and wholeness must be at the center of building lasting emotional intelligence. To drop these value bombs, I brought Scott Alender in the EO Fire studios. Scott is an expert in global leadership and organizational development, certified EQ coach and Enneagram teacher, and co-host of the popular Evolving Leader podcast. Scott is committed to helping leaders everywhere become more radically self-aware.

0:39And we'll talk about EQ today. We'll talk about the Enneagram and I'll share with you my number and how it can help you become more self-aware. We'll also talk about placing value on our emotions and instincts, what this looks like in the real world, and so much more. And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Scott and our sponsors. The Product Boss, hosted by Jacqueline and Mina, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network the audio destination for business professionals. The Product Boss helps you take your physical product sales and strategy to the next level to create your dream life with episodes like, Can I Have a Successful Product Business as a Side Hustle?

1:16Listen to The Product Boss wherever you get your podcasts. Many EO Fire listeners have launched franchises in a variety of industries outside of food, and Fran Bridge Consulting has guided them to these premier opportunities. The founder, John Ostenson, has done more placements than any other in the country Sign up for a free consultation with John or get a free copy of his book, Non-Food Franchising, at FranBridgeConsulting.com. Scott, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. Hey, Fire Nation. Thanks, John, for having me on.

1:56Something about being successful, I think what comes to mind is that the mistake people tend to make or often make is that we see and define success as being completely external to us. And so the tendency for many people is to then set about pursuing different definitions of externally validated success measures as a way to feel that they can be successful, that they have worth, that they have value, that they're accomplishing something outside of themselves. And if they get enough praise and admiration and applause, then they are successful. And what I experience in the work that I do is that when people are disassociated from their own internal values, what their authentic self really wants and their deep held purpose, when they don't know what that is, this can often lead to dissonance, disillusionment, anxiety, depression, burnout.

3:02And so the most successful people, I think, are the people who deeply connect with the authentic parts of who they are, what they really want, and then align that with what they pursue in the world. And that kind of success is immeasurable. And Fire Nation, that's the theme of our conversation today. We're talking about why healing and wholeness must be at the center of building lasting emotional intelligence. And I do want to talk about EQ. So what is EQ and why does it matter more than our skills, more than our knowledge, more than our experiences? I would say that EQ could be defined as our ability to make better sense of the world and and therefore have better relationships, better decision-making, better able to cope with stress.

3:54What's typically defined with an emotional intelligence is our ability to manage our own emotions and understand the emotions of the people around us. And at a high level, that is true. And when we zoom in a little bit closer, it can often include things like self-regulation and motivation and empathy and these kinds of things. In my book, I talk about it through the lens of self-expression, self-perception, interpersonal relationships, and decision-making, and stress management. But at the end of the day, EQ is basically how you show up. So often, really, really smart people, high IQs, a long list of expertise and experiences and skills may still fail.

4:43And it's not for what they lacked in knowledge or experience. It may be that they couldn't lead a team. They couldn't regulate their own emotional experience. They didn't understand what they were feeling, and therefore they didn't understand the adverse impact they were having on the most important people of their lives. And so when you look at the data, it suggests that north of 70 % of the reasons that people succeed or fail are directly attributed to emotional intelligence measures. Now, what I think is missing often from the conversation is emotions themselves. So we tend to measure emotional intelligence attributes, talk about them, but we talk about them primarily from a very logical, rational perspective, and we end up bypassing the most important part of emotional intelligence, which is the ability to feel our feelings and then interpret what those feelings are telling us.

5:41Now, one thing I want to talk about next is developing our emotional intelligence. If we go through this process and we're going to listen to this interview and we're going to work on developing our emotional intelligence, what are you finding most people get wrong in this development? I'm going to pick up on my end of my last answer, which is that it's far too heady and logical and rational. So we maybe sit down with a coach, go through an emotional intelligence report, usually not surprised by the results in my experience. People go, yep, no, that doesn't surprise me. Oh, that attribute, that's way off over there.

6:14Yep, not surprising. So they already know these things. And then we set about a plan for how to make adjustments to these unwanted behaviors. And meanwhile, we're still at a very far distance from the emotional experience themselves that are leading to many of these unwanted behaviors. So in my book, what we do is we look at nine specific personality-driven courses of action to develop a more balanced and healthy and self-aware emotional intelligence profile by uncovering what is often unconscious motivations in us. So there's many things we do every day that are really just automation. It's automatic reactivity based on our personality constructs.

7:02But without going to big detail and trying to teach the Enneagram within this conversation, I will say at a high level, another thing people really get wrong is they try to separate emotions from the head and the body. So one thing that I really focus on in the book as well is that if you really want to understand what you're feeling and what those feelings are telling you and how you can interpret them for good in your life, we also have to reconnect actually to our bodies, to what the physical sensations we experience and what our bodies are telling us. There's a growing body of research in neuroscience highlighting the importance of developing interoceptive sensitivity, which is our ability to understand the signals that are coming from our bodies up to our brains and then often creating an emotional response.

7:58And so what the Enneagram does and what I think the emotional intelligence conversation needs to include, even if you're not using the Enneagram, is the reconnection of heart intelligence, bodily intelligence, and our sort of thinking brain, the quality of our thoughts. Fire Nation, this is powerful stuff. And if you haven't heard of the word Enneagram, it's time to change that. And I actually want to dive a little deeper on this right now because I personally do love the Enneagram. And I mean, I know, Scott, that you know very little about me. I mean, I'm an entrepreneur. I'm a podcaster now for over 10 years.

8:34I'm living down here on an island in Puerto Rico. Nice. What would you guess my number is? Oh, I wouldn't. I would not guess. I don't type people, especially people I've just met. Do you know your type? Absolutely. I am an eight, which is the challenger. I can feel the high energy from you. Now, I want to talk with Fire Nation about how can the Enneagram help them become more self-aware, just like I've been able to use Enneagram, me as a challenger, to become more self-aware. With all the tools out there that can help you with some information about your personality type, what sets the Enneagram apart is that it's really not concerned with what you do, but why you do it.

9:22and when you dive in and discover your type you will discover I guarantee you will discover a whole mess of latent unconscious motivations that are informing your behaviors your reactions to people the way you see things the way you see yourselves and others the way you see problems the way you try to make decisions and problem solve, all being informed by these unconscious patterns and motivations of your type. So there are nine archetypes, and each one is motivated by something different. So you've got type ones who are motivated by a need to perfect themselves and the world around them. And there's a whole, by the way, backstory of why that is, messages they received as a young person, wounds, fears, and that's true of all the nine types.

10:17And I won't go through all of that. But so one's being motivated that way. Two's being motivated by a need to please important others in their lives as a way to feel liked and wanted. Three's being motivated by the need to be successful or appear successful at all costs and avoid failure at all costs. And fours motivated by a need to be unique and special. And fives motivated by a need to be competent and having knowledge and being able to guard themselves against being overwhelmed by threats of the world. And sixes motivated by a need to try to feel safe through questioning and risk assessment and trying to protect themselves and others.

11:02And sevens, largely motivated by a need to be without limitations and constricted in any way. And eights, motivated by a need to avoid being controlled by other people and therefore avoid any kind of vulnerability and motivated therefore by a need to be strong and appear strong. And nines, motivated by a need to avoid conflict at all costs. And that is a cursory, overly simplistic way to sort of go around the nine types. But underneath that, as I was starting to say, there is layers and layers of these unconscious stories and wounding messages and core fears and all of this stuff that informs these what are basically ego responses to our lived experience.

11:51and those ego responses at one time serve us very well. And then as you go through life, you'll find, yeah, but this strategy doesn't always work for me. So the Enneagram points to where you've gotten stuck. We contain all nine types, but we over-identify with one because that's the type that we needed or perceived that we needed in order to get love and find security and be safe in the world. And it works for us until it doesn't work for us. And so what's great about the Enneagram is it not only explains all that's underneath your type that you may not be aware of, but it also gives you a map for how to move beyond it and start to access the other types.

12:27And so it's a magnificent growth tool for transcendence. Fire Nation, that breakdown was awesome. And I wonder if some of you already can pick out just from hearing what Scott shared, what you might be. And then of course, once you take it, you'll find out for sure. And we have a lot to talk about around this topic and more. when we get back from thanking our sponsors. We all want the same things for our business. More leads, faster sales, and better insights so we can serve our customers at the highest level. One thing we all don't want, to waste time and money trying to figure these things out.

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14:48That's franbridgeconsulting.com. Scott, we're back and you believe that, you know, we need to understand how other people see the world so that we can accelerate our own success. What do you mean by that? Well, we make the mistake of thinking that the way we see the world is normal. And from an Enneagram perspective, there are at least eight other ways that people see the world that they think are equally normal. And, you know, if you get into advanced Enneagram study, which includes things called subtypes, you end up with sort of like 27 different ways that people are sort of taking in information and making decisions.

15:32And so for our effectiveness, for a more complete holistic awareness and effectiveness in the world, it's critically important we learn all that's behind how we see and think and feel. but it's equally important to understand how others are feeling and thinking and seeing and what's motivating that because that allows us to then flex our innate natural styles to accommodate the way that others communicate the way they sort of feel about things the what's important to them and that's a more comprehensive awareness right we tend to think self-awareness is just to understand all of us, you know, our idiosyncrasies and the things that trigger us.

16:14And that means it's self-awareness, but that's not really the point of awareness, right? Just acknowledging our goodness and our faults is not really enough. It's to be able to grow past the limitations of our egos and to be able to enter into important relationships by better understanding what motivates other people. Fire Nation, this is powerful stuff, seeing other people for what they are and how it can help you accelerate your success. And Scott, another thing that I was learning about you is that you believe that we need to place more value on our emotions and instincts than most people currently do.

16:56What does that look like in the real world? In organizational life, there's still a dismissive of emotions as something that gets in the way of rationality. And in some ways, it does. But that's not a bad thing. It's only a bad thing if we try to leave those emotions at the door, deny that they're there, or dismiss them as unimportant. We have emotions for a very important evolutionary reason. It gives us insight that we cannot get from just rational processing. Emotions are constructed in us to point us at something. It doesn't mean that the emotion we're feeling is objectively accurate or true.

17:41You can over-identify with a feeling and end up accusing somebody of wrongdoing or something that may not be true because you feel really strongly, especially if you're having a very negative, unpleasant emotional experience. But emotions at their core are information. And when we allow ourselves to feel our feelings, then we can ask and get curious about what's behind those feelings and make sense of the world in the ways that we haven't. So what I encourage people to do in businesses and with your teams is normalize feelings check-in. Check-in, how are you feeling? Like on a Monday morning, maybe if it's practical at least to sort of check in and say, just real quickly, I want to know how everybody's feeling.

18:28just the process of naming emotions, especially if you can do it granularly, meaning more than just the passive, oh, I'm good, feel good, feel fine. But really, get into it like, well, today I'm feeling a little overstimulated because my wife and I, we don't have to explain why, but maybe you're realizing, well, my spouse and I had an argument on the way out the door and then I drank too much coffee and I'm feeling like I'm overstimulated at the moment. Just naming that. And again, you don't have to overshare with your colleagues about why. But naming that will bring it into conscious awareness and you'll be able to then go, okay, that's at play in how I'm showing up to this meeting.

19:09And now that I know that, now I know that my irritability or my shortness with Joe or whoever's in the room has nothing to do with that and I can move past it. It allows us to metabolize the emotion and get back to what businesses value, which is a more logical, calm, collective, collaborative kind of approach to business. I love that phrase, metabolize emotion. Think about that, Fire Nation. And Scott, I want to end with a bang, brother. We've talked about a lot of powerful things today. What is the one thing that you really want to make sure Fire Nation gets from our chat? What your body's telling you, what your heart's telling you, and what your brain is telling you are all equally valid.

19:55And we need to have practices by which we can learn to reintegrate those things because we tend to favor one over the other two. And so practices, whether it's 10 minutes a day of mindfulness meditation, doing body scans, breath work, yoga, even simple things like that to become part of realigning body, heart and head is incredibly valuable for your well-being and for your success. Scott, how can we connect with you if Fire Nation wants to learn more? Give us a call to action of how we can consume more of your content, however you want Fire Nation to go from here. Yeah, thank you. You can find me on scotteallender.com.

20:43That's S-C-O-T-T-E-A-L-L-E-N-D-E-R.com. I'm also on LinkedIn. I post regularly about the Enneagram on Instagram at an account called EQ Enneagram. and you can listen to me on the Evolving Leader podcast and my book's available wherever online books are sold called The Enneagram of Emotional Intelligence. Fire Nation, you're the average. Of the five people you spend the most time with, you've been hanging out with S.A. and J.L.D. today, so keep up the heat. For links to everything we talked about, visit eofire.com. Type Scott in the search bar. The show notes page will pop right up. And Scott, thank you for sharing your truth with Fire Nation today.

21:30For that, we salute you and we'll catch you on the flip side. Thank you so much. Hey, Fire Nation, a huge thank you to our sponsors and Scott for sponsoring today's episode. And Fire Nation, are you ready to rock your very own podcast? Check out our free podcasting course where I will teach you how to create and launch your podcast for free, freepodcastcourse.com. I'll catch you there or on the flip side. The Product Boss, hosted by Jacqueline and Mina, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. The Product Boss helps you take your physical product sales and strategy to the next level to create your dream life.

22:08With episodes like, can I have a successful product business as a side hustle? Listen to The Product Boss wherever you get your podcasts. Many EO Fire listeners have launched franchises in a variety of industries outside of food, and Fram Bridge Consulting has guided them to these premier opportunities. The founder, John Ostenson, has done more placements than any other in the country. Sign up for a free consultation with John or get a free copy of his book, Non-Food Franchising, at FranBridgeConsulting.com.