Why I Hired an Executive Coach with Nick Oswald & Kenneth Vogt

0:01Boom! Shake the room, Fire Nation! JLD here and welcome to Entrepreneurs on Fire! Brought to you by the HubSpot. Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals with great shows like Hustle and Flowchart. Today, we'll be breaking down why to hire an executive coach. To drop these value bombs, I brought Nick and Kenneth into EO Fire Studios. Dr. Nick founded BitSize Bio in 2007 as a way to help researchers share their professional know-how to make science more efficient, more successful, and more enjoyable. Kenneth is a 40-year serial entrepreneur sharing the clarity and wealth of a life well lived.

0:36In today's Foundation, we'll talk about finding rock stars, hiring rock stars, wooing them, affording them. We'll also talk about how to corral the individually ambitious, rewarding good people beyond cash, and oh, so much more. And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Nick Kenneth and our sponsors. The Next Wave, your chief AI officer, hosted by Matt Wolf and Nathan Lance, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals Matt and Nathan are leading AI creators in your guiding light in the AI and technology frontier. AI technology is transforming the way we do business and the media landscape is fragmented.

1:13The Next Wave strives to be the leading podcast on AI technology and how you can apply it to growing your business. Listen to The Next Wave wherever you get your podcasts. Fire Nation, as mentioned in the introduction, we're talking today about hiring an executive coach. and that's what we're going to be focusing on. That's going to be dialing into today with both Kenneth and Nick. And Nick, I actually want to start with you because you believe that in order for entrepreneurs to prosper, we must hire rock stars. So let's talk about how we find rock stars. How do we woo them? How the heck do we afford them?

1:49Well, good question, John. For me, it's, I'm a scientist, but it's an inexact science doing this. One of the ways that I do that is is to keep my eyes open, have a vision for what I want to happen next in my company, but not be fixed on the type of person. And quite a lot of times I find out that I know someone who can do that or that person just appears. Kenneth, why don't you jump in here? Because we need some real direction, some real focus on finding rock stars, on wooing them, on affording them. What can you add to this conversation? I can say from observing Nick that But it's because he's out there.

2:29He is around where these people may be found, not just to find them, but because to be active in his business, he needs to be seen. He needs to be in the places where the movers and shakers spend their time. And by doing that and being engaged, he finds people. And he's been remarkable at finding some tremendous folks over the years. Okay, so let's even dive deeper here. We're going to take it one step at a time. How do you find rock stars, Kenneth? First, you need to know what you're looking for. You know, if you know you need somebody that is a rainmaker, well, then you've got to be looking for rainmakers.

3:10If you know you need somebody who is highly credentialed, you've got to know what those credentials are. If you need somebody who has reputation in the world, well, then you need to be looking where reputation is found. Let's say like on LinkedIn, as an example, or at specific trade shows or conferences that might reference, you know, be useful in your business. You've got to decide in advance what a rock star is, and then you've got to go look for them. Once you find them, how do you woo them? All about vision to me. It's all about vision. So one of the things that we have at Bite Size Bio, or we require, is scientists who are great at writing, who are great at explaining what they know.

3:58And one of the things that we do to get good writers in that can fulfill that, they're kind of gems in the rough, is that we create a community where there's visibility and there's an incentive to be involved. And then we create a filter so people can get involved. They can get involved in an easy way that doesn't tax us. And then the gold rises to the top, if you like. As we work with them, we can find them. So if you find that individual, how the heck do you afford them? Because these are pretty valuable commodities. So what do you do there? One thing is the overall vision is how, you know, do they want to be involved in this?

4:41It's a bit tangential from this is a tangential from a normal scientific career, obviously. So there's value for people being involved in the project on its own merits. We also have created a great working environment so that people want to be in it. you know, flexibility, autonomy, options for growth, you know, options to do new things and so on. So it's not just about the money, it's about the whole package. And Fire Nation, I'll give a little analogy here of look at the NBA. Now, basically, you have these stars, what do they want? Yes, they want a lot of money. But what do they also want? They want to win championships, they want to be in the playoffs every single year, they want to leave a legacy of winning.

5:29So champions and all-stars and the best players in the league actually want to play with other best players in the league so that they do make the playoffs and get more exposure. So they do make the NBA championship and can actually have a chance on winning. So they'll oftentimes take a pay cut because there is a salary cap and they'll realize that, hey, I want to be part of this team, part of this culture. I want to win. I want to hoist that trophy at the end of the year. I want a parade in my city. That is why I'm going to take a pay cut. So I'm not getting the maximum dollar, but I'm probably getting maximum legacy as a result.

6:01So Nick, how can we create an environment where these employees see a path forward? Because I mean, here we go. We've found them, we've wooed them, we've afforded them somehow or convinced them to come within what we can afford because they love that vision. How do we create that environment where they see a path forward and they want to remain? Create a bigger prize. So I have a big vision for what I want my company to do and I communicate that to them but it's not fixed the vision's not fixed to what I want it to be the vision is allowed to grow with staff with these staff members abilities and their ideas and their own ambitions so that we can grow together as a team towards a bigger vision that ultimately will involve more uh more financial reward but also more individual personal creative reward.

6:52Now, Nick, these individual people, I mean, they're ambitious. I mean, they're hard to corral. I mean, if you're able to corral these individuals, how do you actually wrangle them into a group of individually ambitious people, which they were as individuals, but then turn them into a cohesive team? The way that I like to look at that is you need a balance of orderers and disorderers. So I'm a disorderer. I like to create chaos that the growth comes from. But I have that as bad. And I have a few of those in the team as well. But I have an equal or greater amount of people who are orderers who will take that chaos once it's started to force, solidify into systems that we can use to deliver services to customers, for example.

7:39And they'll take that and they will order it to the ends of the earth. And so it works beautifully. And so everyone's working together. So we have a calm from the disorders and we have a chaos that drives the growth from the disorders. Kenneth, what do you want to add to these last two conversation points? One of the things that will likely matter to your audience is your audience is probably mostly small businesses. And they're thinking, how do I compete to get these people from big companies or academia. And it's the way Nick described it. You create something that those big companies can't offer.

8:18There's more autonomy here. There's more flexibility. There's more room to stretch your legs here. And to go back to what Nick was talking about, order versus disorder, I'm playing a more order role with Nick as an executive coach and I bring up and you know a high level outside view which he couldn't have otherwise I don't always bring that sometimes I bring the disorder it depends on the client but in this case what what is most valuable to him is not for me to add more disorder he's got enough going on there he's got he's got great people for that. And I say that as a plus. You got to recognize the value of having both kinds of people on your team.

9:08Fire Nation, I hope you're starting to put this together for your own business, for your own team as you move forward, because there's a lot to talk about around this topic and even more when we get back from thanking our sponsors. Being a small business owner comes with a lot of challenges, especially now. It seems like everyone is working with smaller budgets, shorter timelines, and sky-high expectations, and that can make growing a business feel pretty painful. Thankfully, HubSpot can help. HubSpot just announced dozens of major product updates that'll make impossible growth feel impossibly easy, like Breeze, a suite of new AI-powered tools that deliver personalized insights to level up your work, plus AI agents designed to automate your work for you.

9:51Sounds pretty great, right? And Breeze Intelligence, which gives you the richest, most comprehensive picture of your prospects and customers, allowing you to serve them at a whole new level. Add to all this, re-imagine marketing and content hubs with new ways to create breakthrough content, updated features to generate better leads, and support to help up-level your marketing and revenue forecast, and you've got HubSpot's all-on-one customer platform. Get ready for growth without the growing pains. Visit hubspot.com slash spotlight to see all the updates. All right, Nick Kenneth, we are back, and I mean, here's the deal, Nick, let's just be honest.

10:29You put in all this work. You've hired the right people. You've made them into a team based off of some of the strategies you've talked about. But then it's just time to let that person go if they're not getting the results that you need in that present moment. I mean, you put in so much work, so much grind, but still you've got to call a spade a spade. You can't just keep an anchor that's holding you back on that team. So how do you know when it's time to let that highly talented person go if they're just not getting those results that you need in your business? To me, it just depends on what it feels like inside the team.

11:04And so it's like a team of horses in a way. Is everyone willing to pull in the same direction? You know, we're all, some people are ordering, some people are disordering or whatever the role is, but we're all moving towards a goal. Once someone starts to pull off in their own direction and you can see it coming, it's time to either try and pull that person back in to the fold by sometimes by shaping the the future direction to accommodate that that ambition if you can or sometimes just cut if you can't uh if you can't bring that person no matter how good they are if you can't bring them into the the fold so that they're pulling in the generally in the same direction it's time to go Kenneth what do you want to add to this?

11:49Sometimes they were the right person and things have changed and maybe they've changed. Maybe the circumstances have changed. Maybe the vision has been improved and we have to recognize change. And if change requires a change in personnel, there's no sense being, you know, being fussy about that. And there's no sense wringing your hands about, oh, I can't let them go. They've done so much good here. Maybe they have. And that's fine. And you ought to acknowledge that. But it also needs to be made clear that something is different now. Either you need to change to meet it or we need to part ways.

12:30And it's fair. And it allows them to have the opportunity to do what they should be doing. Because if they're not lined up with the company's goals, they're getting frustrated. they're not getting what they want. It may be that you will help them to find the next better thing for them. And you don't have to, you know, it's not about making enemies. There's no reason not to part way as friends. And, you know, you never know when you're going to encounter someone again. So don't burn bridges. Yeah. And they might be at a different time and space in their life, Fire Nation. And then they are the right person, the right fit at that time, at that place.

13:05But I do want to go to that other end of the spectrum, because let's say you've done all this work and you didn't have that unfortunate situation we just talked about where that person's just not the right fit. But in fact, they are the right fit. They're the perfect fit. You love them. You want to keep them on your team as long as possible. And you know, deep down that, listen, I can't always just pack and pile more money onto this person because if I make it only about money, then when that person gets a higher offer and they might, then that'll be the only thing that they have to distinguish between this job and that job.

13:36So what the heck, Nick, is the best way to go about rewarding these good people beyond cash in their pocket in ways that they actually love? Creating an environment that they feel like they can't leave, right? Because it's so good. And simple ways are, you know, the flexibility of working, all that sort of stuff. We have, you know, very flexible working. You can work wherever you want. You can work whenever you want to an extent, make it a great team, address issues so that there's no friction and so on. Everyone working to the same vision and things like that. We give them benefits that show that we care about them and that we care about each other as a team.

14:22But most of all, it's giving people whatever outlet they need in their work. So if it's creative outlet they need, give them room to do that and give them room to influence the area of the business that they're working in. Give them room to influence that and to grow into that so that you almost get a joy from your work because you're not hemmed in. And that's quite a rare thing in my experience to find in any bigger organization. Kenneth, what do you want to add to that? Something I've noticed that Nick has been really good at finding benefits for people that aren't actually that expensive for the company.

15:03Um, and, and they've turned out to, to really matter. It's, it's made people's lives better. And even for those who haven't used those benefits, they've seen their, their colleagues have their lives improved and that's, that's a good look. So, you know, keep your eyes open and be, be clever, you know, be creative about things and see what'll reach out to people. Because as Nick said, you can't just keep throwing money at people. Even people that like money at some point are going to go, this is getting ridiculous. Fire Nation, I was fortunate enough to have a four-day in-person mastermind with just nine other people at Tony Robbins Fiji Islands.

15:49It was a magical experience. I've talked about it a little bit, but not for a long time. But the reason I bring it back up now is because one of the best pieces of advice I got from that was from Tony, where he said, listen, everybody that's on your team is an individual. They all have different desires. So just giving these blanket things of like, oh, free time off or more money or this, that's not going to hit each person individually. You need to go to each individual, sit them down and say one thing. What is the one thing that would make this job the best job for you as an individual human being?

16:24and let them think about it for a couple of days and then come back to you and say, hey, this is the one thing that would make this job the best. And it might be a very weird or random request, but if you fulfill that, it's unlikely a competitor is going to be able to or going to want to. And guess what? That person is now going to know that they had their significant, distinct, unique desire filled by you and that business. And that's so powerful. So I want to talk, Nick, about how the fact we can't forget ourselves, the entrepreneur, the founder, the business owner and all of this. So how do we meet our own needs as well as those of our employees?

17:03Difficult balance. For me, I always feel like I have to be the leading edge in a lot of things that I do, that we do, a lot of areas that we grow into, even if they're uncomfortable for me. And so that can be, you know, at the moment, I'm spearheading some of our new sales efforts and so on. That's not an area I enjoy. However, what I have to do to look after myself over time is to have a plan as early as possible for how I'm going to hand that off so that I can get into the bits of the business that I enjoy the most. So that it's not, it's so easy to just take on all the difficult parts, all the bits you don't enjoy and keep them there.

17:44And that's a recipe for disaster down the line, I think. Kenneth, what do you want to add to this? Nick has done two things that I think are quite important. One is he has sought administrative support for those difficult jobs, even as he's doing them temporarily. And the idea is then to create an infrastructure that when he does plug in a professional into that role, they're going to find it to be a fabulous environment. But in the short run, it's supporting him, making it easier for him. And another thing is, again, having an executive coach, he's got somebody with an outside view that can notice when he needs to get a break, when he needs to get some relief, when he needs to shift a role to someone else.

18:29And it's hard sometimes to see that for yourself is when the buck stops with you, you're the founder, you're the owner, you're the big boss. And it's good to have someone who can say to you, you need to stop. you need to let this go. You need to delegate this. This is not good for you and it's not good for the company that it's not good for you. And so let's make a change. Fire Nation, I really hope you're ingesting all this content that we're sharing with you because this is just one reason why you want to make sure that you're doing the right things to build the right team because it can have such a valuable impact down the line.

19:09Now, Nick, I want to start with you. Give us just one clear, concise, short takeaway that you want to make sure our listeners get from this conversation today. And then give us the call to action. If Fire Nation wants to connect with you, learn more, where do they go? One thing I didn't really cover it, Ken mentioned it, but is that one of the most invaluable things I did in the setting up of this whole business, which has been running for 14 years now, was to get an executive coach. I've worked with Ken for over 10 years. I needed that oversight to help me see what I was doing and see what gaps I had for myself and in the business and to fill those in.

19:51I would say that if you feel like you are coming up against it, you're hitting the limits inside your business, then I would get an executive coach. And what is your call to action if Fire Nation wants to learn more about you, connect with you? Google Nick Oswald, N-I-C-K-O-S-W-A-L-D, and I think I've come top. Or in LinkedIn, Nick Oswald. Kenneth, same to you, one value bomb, one call to action. The first thing is to realize that you're not an island as a founder. You're going to need help. And whether that comes from your employees or it comes from your community, it comes from your family, or it comes from a coach.

20:32You've got to have it. and it's so worth it to put the effort into that. And maybe it's an investment of time, maybe it's an investment of money, but what you put in is what you're going to get out. So you don't want to be stingy about that kind of thing. It's the best thing you can do for your long-term future. If you'd like to talk to me, you can come to my website. It's veraclaritas.com, V-E-R-A-C-L-A-R-I-T-A-S.com. You can also find me, Kenneth Vogt, on LinkedIn. And there's a lot of information in both places. So come see me. Come talk to me. Fire Nation, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with.

21:13You've been hanging out with N-O-K-V and J-L-D today. So keep up that heat. And for links to everything we talked about, visit eofire.com. Just type Nick or Kenneth in the search bar and the show notes page for this episode will pop right up. Nick, Kenneth, thank you both for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your value with Fire Nation. For that, we salute you and we will catch you on the flip side. Hey, Fire Nation, a huge thank you to our sponsors and Nick and Kenneth for sponsoring today's episode and Fire Nation successful entrepreneurs accomplish big goals, huge goals. That's why I created the Freedom Journal to guide you in accomplishing your number one goal in 100 days.

21:48We're talking step by step. Visit thefreedomjournal.com and I will We'll catch you there or on the flip side. The Next Wave, your chief AI officer, hosted by Matt Wolf and Nathan Lanz, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. Matt and Nathan are leading AI creators in your guiding light in the AI and technology frontier. AI technology is transforming the way we do business and the media landscape is fragmented. The Next Wave strives to be the leading podcast on AI technology and how you can apply it to growing your business. Listen to The Next Wave wherever you get your podcasts.