Why Wine Investment is a Smart Move with Daniel Walker: An EOFire Classic from 2021

0:01Light that spark fire nation JLD here and welcome to entrepreneurs on fire brought to you by the HubSpot podcast network, the audio destination for business professionals with great shows like inclusion and marketing. Today, we're pulling a classic episode from the archives and we'll be breaking down why wine investment is a smart move to drop these value bombs. I brought Daniel Walker into EO Fire Studios. Daniel's career started in trading companies, but he soon realized that the world of stocks and shares didn't fully align with his core values. In today's Value Bonds, Fire Nation, we talk about how we are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars by Oscar Wilde.

0:36Number two, enjoy the ride, enjoy the experience, and especially you do not stop until you hit that light and to owe so much more. And a big thank you for sponsoring today's episode goes to Daniel and our sponsors. The Next Wave, your chief AI officer, hosted by Matt Wolf and Nathan Lance, is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals. AI technology is transforming the way we do business and the media landscape is fragmented. The Next Wave strives to be the leading podcast on AI technology and how you can apply it to growing your business. Listen to The Next Wave wherever you get your podcasts.

1:11If you've ever considered launching a show on YouTube, I may have the solution for you after launching a very successful show on YouTube in 2024, MicroStrategy Today. I've learned a lot on what it takes to create a successful show and have launched a one-on-one mentorship program called YouTube 100. If you want to jump on a call and learn more about this program, shoot me an email, john at eofire.com. This is the year of YouTube. Let's go. Daniel, say what's up to Fire Nation and share something that you believe about becoming successful that most people disagree with. Hey, John. How are you doing, Fire Nation?

1:49It's a privilege to be on the Entrepreneurs on Fire podcast. And yeah, thank you so much for having me. I hope that there's some information that you guys are interested by. But yeah, it's a great question. I'm glad we're starting off with the small stuff and nothing too deep. So thanks, John. What makes successful people successful? I guess, well, I'd like to quote Oscar Wilde. And Oscar Wilde once said that we're all laying in the gutter. However, some of us are looking up at the stars. And life and success is very much about going through that tunnel. And you're aware of the old saying that there is a light at the end of that tunnel.

2:26Now, for some people, that light is nothing more than a flicker. And for other people, that light can be a very bright beacon. But the interesting thing about progressing through that tunnel is making sure that even when you're in the middle, number one, you're enjoying the ride. Number two, you're enjoying your experiences. But most crucially, number three, do not stop until you hit that light. And that's the difference between somebody that's successful and enjoying everything that life has to offer and some people that unfortunately settle for mediocrity in life. So yeah, that would be my ethos, I guess, John.

2:58Love that ethos. And I love the fact that you had that quote from Oscar Wilde about starting in the gutter because Fire Nation, myself and Daniel, were having a little chat pre-interview. And he briefly shared with me his rags to riches story. He didn't just start silver spoon in mouth with his family owning this wine orchard or nothing along those lines. He actually had to build up from the bootstrap. So we're actually going to tease potentially having a part two to this episode where we'll circle back and we'll tell Daniel's rags to riches story. So stay tuned on that for sure. But as you know, today's focus is wine investments.

3:40And that's what we're going to be focusing on here today. And for Fire Nation who's listening, you know, we're very business savvy. We're always looking to, you know, diversify our investments. But first off, what is fine wine? How would you, Daniel, define it? To really bring it back to its simple roots, fine wine is investing into a bottle, or it could be investing into a case of wine. And the great thing about fine wine is that it represents just 1 % of the global wine market, which is worth tens of billions. And we're talking about a huge, gargantuan market, but the fine wine aspect of it relates to just 1%, which is minute.

4:20use. So we're talking about a very finite product, John. And because of that element of its scarcity, you're always sort of in a supply and demand situation, which of course is the most basic of economic factors. It's being consumed at rapid rates, but it's produced in a very limited way. So therefore, basic economics will dictate that the trajectory of this investment is always moving in the right direction. So it's an incredibly simple investment when you think about a full, genuine, authentic, full circle cycle kind of instrument. That's what fine wine is. It's investing into physical bottles, physical cases.

4:59Now, obviously you're a little prejudiced, but we all are in some way, shape or form. So let's talk about diversification a little bit, because that is key when it comes to investing. So why in your belief is wine investment a smart move? Why is it prudent to jump off a sinking ship? Why is it prudent to anticipate as opposed to having to react in life generally? I think more is lost through indecision and procrastination rather than ever making a wrong decision. So fine wine is about diversification. At the moment, we're seeing a huge amount of volatility in the global markets, and that could be due to a politician saying something that he shouldn't, or it could be down to geopolitical unrest or somebody saying something or doing something that just is going to have a negative effect on your investment.

5:50Wine doesn't have those same pitfalls. It's an impenetrable market. It's very, very simple. You see a very smooth gradient. And the simple reason for that and why it's a smart move is because you're never going to wake up one morning and find that your fine wine investment has dropped and you've lost 20%. However, a prominent person could say something negative about a company and you may very well be in that situation where you've lost a lot, potentially everything you've worked for. And lots of investors, unfortunately, have had to experience this during this pandemic and certainly during the crash of 2008.

6:25So wine just really doesn't have those pitfalls. But on that same token too, John, it's not one of those investments where it's a get rich quick scheme. You're not going to make a million dollars overnight with this investment. But as I say, on that same token, you're certainly not going to lose everything that you've worked sometimes your whole life for. Does that make sense? Makes a lot of sense. And I love how you broke that down. And I kind of want to get a little more specific though, because you are currently the head of the investment arm of OUENO Group help us diversify our portfolio to invest in fine wine?

7:05I'm getting a little bit more specific, Sally. I mean, well, let's imagine this. You had Warren Buffett, Benjamin Graham, and Ray Dalio sitting at a table, and you said to them, I'm looking for the perfect stock. Well, the chances of those people getting it right is highly probable because of the requisite education that these gentlemen have. When you come to Ueno, we have the best and most illustrious figures within the whole sector working on our clients' behalf. We're talking about having first female master of wine, which, by the way, for your listeners that perhaps don't know what a master of wine is, it's the highest accolade that one can have in the whole sector.

7:40It takes years of practice and hard work to get to that level. So we have people of that sort of magnitude working on our clients' behalf. But just to break it down a bit more, John, so it gives it some real sort of contrast with regards to why it's a smart move. If you think about LiveX, So LiveX is the stock market of fine wine. If you look at annualized returns over the last 15 years, you'll see that LiveX, i.e. the fine wine market, has produced 13.60 % over the last 15 years. Now, if you compare that to the Dow Jones and the S &P 500, Dow Jones over 15 years would have produced. Now, this is excluding dividends, John, I should add, would be 7.80%.

8:20If you include dividends, it's about 10%. The S &P 500 is about 8%. Wow. That's exclude. Yeah, incredible. That's excluding dividends. And if you include dividends, the S &P returned 10%. So I guess encapsulated what that means is that fine wine has outperformed the second place, which was the S &P 500 by about 3%. So let's just say as a rough estimate on a$10 ,000 investment over 15 years, that's about$4 ,500 that you would have made within the fine wine market. so the great thing about the US as a market at the moment John too which I think is fantastic and it's really it's quite phenomenal in fact is that during the pandemic wine consumption in the United States alone hit 1 billion that's with a B billion gallons for the first time in history providing us with this textbook case of supply and demand imbalance driving this dominant market performance.

9:15So why is it a smart move? Because it's too volatile, it's too precarious. And you've got to go into an investment, John, with your 2020 vision, not fingers crossed. Does that make sense? Makes a lot of sense. And Fire Nation, I think that's the exact reason why we have experts in their industry come on and talk about each one of their expertise, and especially where they're going to be focused on niche, industry, vertical level. Because now you're getting a great perspective from somebody who's living this every single day. And we're going to actually be talking about exit strategy because there's going to be some kind of exit strategy at some point.

9:50You know, maybe it's generations down the line. We're also going to be talking about insurance policies, fraud protection, and so much more when we get back from thinking our sponsors. Ever feel like your job description just keeps getting bigger? But we all know there's only 24 hours in a day causing marketers everywhere to feel spread thin between creating content, launching campaigns, generating leads, and more. You barely have a moment to take a breath, let alone do your best marketing. What if there was a better, easier way? That's where HubSpot and Breeze, HubSpot's new built-in AI come in.

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11:39They can do everything from creating your listing to managing reservations to messaging guests and providing onsite support. They can even help with design and styling. So if you've got an extended trip coming up and need a little help hosting while you're away, you can hire a co-host to do the work for you. Find a co-host at airbnb.com slash host. Daniel, we're back. And as I kind of teased before the break, we need to talk. talk exit strategy. I mean, I think my audience, some of them are like, well, isn't the exit strategy just drinking that wine? I mean, it's fine wine. Like, let's just have a party.

12:11Let's drink it. Let's have fun. And hey, maybe some of it, you never know. I mean, that can be part of your enjoyment of life. Part of your investment is you're investing in a fantastic glass or bottle of wine at some point of maybe your entire case. Who knows? We can talk about that. But let's talk about that. Like what does an exit strategy potentially look like when you make an investment like this? Any investment can only ever be deemed as good as the exit strategy that it has in place. So the reason why, John, we're now voted the best fine wine investment company globally at the International Investors Award, we won that.

12:45We've just won Europe's best fine wine investment company for the last few years in a row. But that is, I think, down to a few different things, but one of which has to be our exit strategy, or in our case, the multitude of exit strategies that Awayno Group has. First and foremost, we have around 600 people on a weekly basis that are coming to us to utilize our investment strategies, which is incredible when you think about us being, you know, 10 years ago, a relatively small company. But then we have an industry first. We have something called Awayno Trade. Now, Awayno Trade is the arm of Awayno Group, which directly distributes to wine bars, restaurants, casinos, hotels.

13:26So not only do you have this open market in which 600 people are looking to buy wine from us but you also have restaurants all around the world that are coming to us for their fine wine the simple reason is because we have the best uh affiliations the best relationships we can go straight to source and we can go directly to the vineyards because of the provenance that we have and the respect that our wine team have at the company so we have a way no trade as a second way to exit the market but then another industry first for us was something called Aweno House. So that is a fine wine shop boutique and entity slap bang in the city of London where our clients are actually moving their wine out of the market through this wonderful place.

14:10Aweno House is very much like a wine museum. We have the greatest wines by definition sitting in this one place belonging to our clients in many cases and they're making really wonderful profits between 10 or in some cases a bit more than that. Some cases, 30%. We have DRC in Awano House, which has gone up by talking hundreds of percents. So there's a multitude of exit strategies. And as I say, it's one of the reasons why we're now dealing with such a huge amount of interest. And it's why we've got close to 50 million under management now. Wow, 50 million under management. And when I think about different investment opportunities, sometimes I'm just like, well, where do I store these products, these services?

14:53You know, where do I actually keep this stuff? And, you know, of course, when you actually have physical ownership of something, it's good to have insurance in place as well, because who knows if there's going to be a disaster or an earthquake. I mean, I live in Puerto Rico. We have hurricanes all the time. We have flooding. You know, there's fire. There's all these different things. So what are the best practices around this when it comes to insurance policies? Yeah. And that's something that obviously you have to be aware of if you're investing, you know, thousands of dollars into bottles of wine.

15:23Number one, you want to make sure that they're absolutely safe and secure and tucked away and being kept safe. So there's a few ways. You mentioned insurance, John, but you also mentioned storage. So when you invest with our company, one of the things that makes us totally unique is that we deal with everything from entry to the fruition to the exit of the investment. We deal with your insurance. We deal with your storage. If you want to deliver to your home to enjoy, you know, for maybe a wedding anniversary or something of that nature, we can arrange that. So really, we're taking the fuss out of investing.

15:54You don't come to us and need to know everything there is to know about the wine market because we really, really do that hard work for you. It's part of our streamlined process. In Great Britain, we would call this an armchair investment because it doesn't take a genius to work out what that means, but it essentially means that you get to sit back and let us do the hard work. So in England or in the US, we would use a bonded facility. So your wine would sit there and we would simply move it on if you were using it purely for its investment. You know, if you want to take it home and drink it, then that's yours to do with as you please because it's asset backed, of course.

16:28But if you want to use it purely for an investment, which is obviously the reason why most people get involved in this market, it simply sits in a bonded facility, which is protected and it's also insured. So very, very important. Yeah, there's a lot of things I like about this. And I'm not here to like crap on the art industry, because I think they've got their pros and cons as well, like every industry does. But I do always, I've always hated the practice of like these billionaires buying up the most beautiful pieces of art in the world, and then storing them in facilities where they're never to be seen again, like they're literally bought and sold without ever moving from that facility.

17:04So they never see the light of day. And to me, that's kind of really sad, because that's the opposite reason to create art is to hide it, etc. but you know, let's be honest with wine, a wine bottle can be beautiful, but you're not necessarily going to like hang it on a wall as like a piece of like amazing art. I mean, you can have it here and there and stuff. So to me, it just makes a lot more sense to be storing wine in this manner, because of course you're protecting it from potentially, you know, too much sun exposure, all these other areas. So this is another reason why I'm liking this opportunity, Fire Nation, but I do want to talk about fraud and fraud protection, because this is rampant in every single industry.

17:40You can't get away from it no matter what industry you're in. Talk about this. Absolutely. It's fundamental when you're investing. I've always said something which is a philosophy of mine is that provided you make your investment decisions, John, on three things, which is information, facts, and evidence, never gut feeling, whim, or emotion, you're not going to get it wrong. So in the wine market, you've got two scenarios here. You've got the fine wine market before the genesis of Awayno and you've got the fine wine market after we were created and one of the things that we've done is we've completely shaken up the market by number one we ensure that there's a guarantee of provenance and that essentially means that you will not be by counterfeit wine which was a huge problem in the industry there was price manipulation before we came along there was a lack of authenticity a lack of transparency and these were three key areas that we worked tirelessly to make sure that our clients had a total peace of mind in knowing that you're buying wine at the right price whether it's at market value or below it's coming straight from the chateau or library stock meaning that it's not traveled around the world a million times which is also incredibly important if you're if you're buying something as expensive as fine wine but also we have the first and only we're talking globally we have the first anti-fraud unit which is headed up by our senior wine buyer and it really means that it's a passport we consider it the away no passport if it's got if a bottle of wine john has a stamp from away no on it it means that you have that assurance that you're not buying something which is as i say traveled and being you know thrown around you're not buying something that is counterfeit or fake you're buying something which is the best it can be it's got a guarantee of provenance and it's the very very optimal quality that it could possibly be.

19:31And that's fundamental when it comes to us selling you after the market. That's why it's important to invest with the best company you can. That's thankfully a way to agree. So Daniel, I want to hand you the microphone here. I want you to take us home. I mean, what is the one core message theme that you want us to walk away with from this entire interview? And then, you know, we also want to know how we can connect with your company more, any call to action you may have for us, and then we'll say goodbye. You have to really think about many, many different things. Number one, why do we invest?

20:02I think what's more important than making money is always looking after the money you've worked hard for. It's so, so key to having a good future and looking after our children, whether that be, you know, going on wonderful vacations or just enjoying the fruits of your labor. If we see the global rate of inflation creep up to 5%, then it just makes investing and making money that bit harder. So I think wine has gone from something that was considered a luxurious asset that was only available to the very professional investor. But it's now considered a total necessity, John. It's something that most investors would have to have within their portfolio, certainly.

20:43And I think as we progress through the markets, the unpredictability of the markets that we're currently seeing in front of us, it's really, really, it's just key that you're making smart, prudent decisions as institute investors, I'm sure your listeners are. so with us we're not going to bring you on board and tell you that you're going to make vast sums but in this day and age where we are I think John we're in the unknown with regards to this global pandemic that's just thankfully started to pass I think it's creating opportunities for opportunists and provided you're working with the right people and this is what I choose to leave your listeners with provided you're working with the right company that has the best interest of the investors at their at their hearts um you're you're going to do just fine and it comes down to due diligence making sure you're working with the right people do your research on us as a company as i say we always move at our clients pace not uh not our pace this is something that we've done for years now so um you're able to get in touch with us and and speak to one of the dedicated account managers of the company.

21:49We're a fast growing, innovative company. We're based in Tuscany, Bordeaux, Munich, Madrid, New York, and there's never been a better time to get invested into the fine wine market for sure. Fire Nation, the opportunities are endless. And Daniel, if Fire Nation wanted to learn more, if they want to connect with you and your company, maybe either via social media, website, what's the best call to action? For Instagram users, you can just go to Awayno Group. Our website is well, awaynogroup.com. So you can find us there. Yeah, we're everywhere. I mean, there's articles on us. I was very privileged to recently be written about in Forbes, and Daily Telegraph.

22:29I'm not sure if you guys have that, but there's many, many ways to find us, John. So, you know, just Google Awayno. We're right there. And Fire Nation, one more time, that's O-E-N-O, O-E-N-O Group. So check it out. And you know, my listeners, Fire Nation, that you're the average. Of the five people you've been spending the most time with, you've been hanging out with D-dubs and JLD today, so keep up the heat. Head over to eofire.com, type Daniel in the search bar. The show notes page will pop up with everything that we've talked about today, links to everything. And Daniel, thank you for sharing your truth, your knowledge, your value with Fire Nation today.

23:07For that, we salute you and we'll catch you on the flip side. Thank you so much, Joe. Hey, Fire Nation. Today's value bomb content was brought to you by Daniel and Fire Nation. If you've ever thought about creating a podcast of your own, the podcast journal is for you. It is gorgeous. It is faux leather and it will guide you step by step in both the creation and launch of your podcast in 50 days. Visit thepodcastjournal.com and I'll catch you there or on the flip side. The next wave, your chief AI officer hosted by Matt Wolf and Nathan Lance is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network, the audio destination for business professionals.

23:44AI technology is transforming the way we do business and the media landscape is fragmented. The Next Wave strives to be the leading podcast on AI technology and how you can apply it to growing your business. Listen to The Next Wave wherever you get your podcasts. If you've ever considered launching a show on YouTube, I may have the solution for you after launching a very successful show on YouTube in 2024, MicroStrategy Today. I've learned a lot on what it takes to create a successful show and have launched a one-on-one mentorship program called YouTube 100. If you want to jump on a call and learn more about this program, shoot me an email, john at eofire.com.

24:21This is the year of YouTube. Let's go.