Be Present in Your Purpose, How A Contractor Rebuilt, Scaled, And Gave Back with Nathan and Jen Dockery

0:02Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of the Epic Entrepreneurs podcast where we are all about helping business owners just like you achieve success. So we don't do fancy smancy. We don't do flashing lights. We don't do a lot of things that a lot of podcasts will do. These are just real stories about real people and their entrepreneurial and business experiences. We go into their wins, their challenges, and their learnings. So we hope you enjoy it.

0:36Hi there. Welcome to this week's episode of Epic Entrepreneurs. I am Bill Gilliland, your host. I am the principal at Action Coach Business Growth Partners and one of the founders of the Asheville Business Summit. And today I am super pumped. We have a really great story for you. I've got Nathan and Jen from the Dockery Group, and I'm going to let them tell you what they do and how they do it and how they serve our communities. But so, Nathan, Jen, y 'all introduce yourselves. Tell us a little bit about your business and can't wait to hear the story. Absolutely. Thanks, Bill. Appreciate it. I'm Nathan Dockery.

1:15I am Jen Dockery. And so we have Dockery Group, which we're a general contractor, which we focus in the commercial space at this time in history. We've done other types of construction historically, but, and then we do real estate development. So we develop everything from residential neighborhoods to mixed use to light industrial and commercial. And so that's, that's really what we do in our day to day under the Dockery Group umbrella. That's cool. So just as a, you know, out of curiosity, you know, do you do more, is it more general contracting or more development or what's the split? and how does it work?

1:59Yeah. So we do a lot of general contracting. That's what really feeds our business and our day-to-day operations. And I was joking that I have to do general contracting to be able to support our development habit, right? Because real estate development, obviously very cash intensive. And so through the general contracting and also some strategic investor partners, that's how we're able to develop. Ah, that's cool. so so the fun is the is the real estate or you enjoy the contracting as well i don't know i guess i'm a big vision guy um you know so bigger is is better which is kind of how i i ended up doing all commercial now was you know if i could wake up in the morning and only do one thing it's it's build big projects i love moving dirt we love going vertical and And then the development, I guess one of my talents that God put in me is just to be able to visualize it when it's finished.

3:03I can look at a piece of dirt. I can tell you what we're going to build and what it's going to look like. And then we get our architects and our engineers to help us bring it to life. So that's really, you know, and you can ask her, like, I love development. You know, I love building things. Yeah, it's fun when you get to get up every morning and work and make money doing something you really love doing. So, yeah, that's exciting. Well, let's shift gears here a little bit. Let me ask you some of the business questions. And I think some of the story will come out over this. So if you had to start from square one in business, what would you do differently?

3:42I think the biggest thing is hire the right people. You know, before when I when I built all the companies, you know, we kind of hired everybody we could and we didn't have a really formal process. We didn't vet everybody. We didn't hire by values. And I think as we rebuilt the company, we've done and I would say we've done a really good job of it. You know, we go through a multi-step hiring process with with everybody we hire. our company values and our identity and how we treat our clients and our investors. We really want everybody with our organization to share those values. And no matter if it's a doctor we're building a new office for or an industrial client or a real estate client that Jim is working with, like our experience, their experience with anybody in our team is consistent.

4:42And so if they're talking to one of my superintendents, and one of the things we get in our feedback is that they really care. And actually, we've got clients that are now investors because of their experience with our people on the job where they find out maybe that we're developers and they want to get into real estate, but they don't know how. And they invest in developments or projects that we do. they saw how we were a fiduciary to their money and their project and how we really cared about making them successful through that. And so that really leads as one of our number one hiring criteria.

5:21And I didn't used to do that. So when I rebuilt the company, we were very strategic and lean in who we hired to make sure that we're very consistent across the values. Yeah, I love that. I love that. So it's probably going to come out of this. And the next question I usually ask is about what are your biggest learnings? But I got to ask you about the rebuilding. Like what happened to make you have to rebuild it? And what are the learnings along the way? Yeah. So, yeah. So built a group of companies over the course of about a decade. And unfortunately, through a series of just call it life, a divorce, a bankruptcy, kind of everything that gets rolled into that, completely went and had to start over.

6:10And so I kind of joke, I started over with me and a truck and Jim was there for the rebuilding. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And she was key in that. Yeah. So what have been some of the learnings that you've had? I mean, you've already hit on a couple like hire the right people and focus on values. But what are some of the other learnings that you've had as an owner and employee? Well, I think make sure that everybody in your boat is rowing and not drilling holes. And so, you know, like with with Jen, when she started kind of working with me and and kind of being that, I don't know, I guess like you kind of handle all the office and the accounting.

6:57And so she handles all that for our company. And when it was just me and I was out in the field, you know, she was kind of my support team. And then I started back with a very core group of subs. And then I started to build the network of who I wanted to do business with. So one thing I did different was I figured out who my avatar was and I hunted with a rifle instead of a shotgun, where before we had all these companies and we had all these clients. And once we really dialed in on who is our avatar, who's our client, then we went and figured out who do we need to network with and what circles do we need to get in with to be able to have access to those people, gain their trust, and then show them how we can be a resource.

7:39And so I think as part of that, we were really streamlined for the first couple of years. And so I went out in the field and I hired one guy and I had like one, I'll call him like a worker, you know. And then we subbed everything else. So I was running all of our projects because I didn't want to relinquish control. And that was the biggest thing for me was once we got in the right network and we started hiring the right people, then I was able to start handing off more responsibility and delegate and really build it from a solid foundation. We're a builder. Obviously, it's easy. It's a house.

8:15The foundation's got to be solid. Go back to the Bible. It's the same thing. We built it on the rock. And so having those few key people and then building that network and taking the time to do it. So we spent several years doing that. And then we really had explosive growth after that. But we couldn't have done it without that core. Right. Yeah, it seemed like you had a lot of learning that led to you being able to get it. So what are some of the common misconceptions about running a business? it's a little bit more stressful than most people think right and and so it's it's unique having a company with my wife um so jen handles all of our real estate clients so she's a licensed real estate agent so she handles all of our real estate and then just kind of i guess really manages is kind of like a CFO kind of position within the organization.

9:16And I guess like the stress levels of managing a company that's scaling, and we've been growing 200 % to 300 % annually for the past few years. I think the biggest misconception is that, oh, you can just keep taking on more clients, and it's the same. It's really not. as we scaled at a much faster pace than I did the last time. We've had a little more bumps in the roads. I think I tell a lot of the guys that I meet that are trying to build their companies that keeping money in your company and not going out and buying boats and trucks and ATVs. And I mean, you see, you know,$150 ,000 trucks because they make their first 200 ,000 bucks.

9:57You know, you've got to leave that money in your company so that you can grow and be able to pay everybody where you wait on the payments. And that's, you know, and I think I'm a little less stressed about that part than Jen is because she sees the money and she handles all of that. And I'm always like, yeah, yeah, let's go. Let's go. Let's get another project. Let's buy some more land. And she's like, hang on. Let's do a little financial planning here. I keep them grounded. Yeah. So I think that's one of the biggest misconceptions with a lot of guys I know is they haven't gone from six figures to seven figures or seven figures to eight figures.

10:32And there's some really big jumps in financials, right, when you go and take those big leaps. Yeah, there's some natural sort of levels in there that just occur. Like there's a little bit of a pushback, I guess. So what do you attribute your growth to? you know um i think first and foremost what we've been able to accomplish we couldn't have done on our own like one like our faith in god um we're a kingdom company i believe that we've done the right thing we've hired the right people we've been stewards to all of our employees their subs our community, and we give back. We do a lot of projects.

11:21We just did one that was a large project for a local outreach center that works with kids in Noonan, where we live. And it's about a quarter million dollar project that we basically helped raise the money to pay for the cost and then did the whole project for free with them and redid their entire facility. And being able to give back like that is is one of the things where we we've run this business with an open hand i think and you know our employees and our subs like we feel responsible to make sure that they grow and that they become leaders within their homes and their families and their community as well and so really by doing that i think you know that just has illustrated who we are and our actions have spoke louder than our words and we don't have to go out and really market ourselves.

12:15We've become a resource and a value to everyone that we're around. Love that. I think a big part of that is connections. So we can attribute a lot of our success and growth to the connections that we've made. Yeah. You know the old saying, your net worth is your network, right? Yeah. Jen, say a little bit more about the connections. Just being involved, like you said, you know, like with our church and that's how we actually met the owner of the project that he was referring to and connections with our employees, developing like a family feel with them. And that's kind of what created the trust and the way that we work together with our team.

13:01And that's kind of helped build our reputation with our company as well. Love that. Love that. Yep. Love that. So this ought to be interesting. How do you balance your business life and your personal life? Is that a word, balance? High-paid therapists. You know, it's been interesting because the first few years, we didn't have a whole lot of bumps in the road as we've gotten a lot bigger and busier, and, you know, which is a blessing that I'll complain about, but never want to give up. Right. When we've had challenges, you know, we've gone and really sought advice and knowledge from people who are just smarter than us that have been there, that have done that.

13:51I mean, just earlier this year, we spent some time with a business coach who focuses on high performance athletes and business owners. And a lot of them are married couples. We met her through another married couple that owns businesses that we build for. And it was kind of like a little tuna, you know, we get on the, you know, I'm a fan of the whiteboard. We got on the whiteboard with her. We went through four or five sessions and talked about making sure that we did keep business and personal somewhat separate, but knowing that being married and living in the same house and working together, even though we don't see each other all day, sometimes there's still got to be some kind of division so that, you know, when we're at home, you know, we may still be working on some things, but then when it's date night or we're doing something that's not work-related, we kind of have to just tune it out for a minute and remember that, like, you know, we're in a different relationship that's not business.

14:49Yeah, I call them, yeah, I call them hats. Like, what's the, like, you put on your hat. Well, I got on my husband hat now. I'm not, you know, Not contractor hat. Yeah, I had a client one time who she just didn't like hats. She said, Bill, I don't like hats. And I said, well, what do you like? She said, I like boots. And I'm like, all right, well, put on your boots. Put on your wife boots or put on your horse riding boots or put on your sales boots or whatever. Yeah, I thought it was pretty funny. Well, you know, the boots, like you saying the boots, and I can't remember who I heard say this, but this person at one of their coaching things was like, I don't know where my purpose is.

15:33I've got all these different hats, these different shoes. And he told her, he said, your purpose is where you're standing, right? So sometimes you're standing at work and your purpose is as a leader at that workplace. But then when you go home, your purpose may be a mom, right? Because you're cooking dinner for your kids or you're helping them with homework. And then your purpose is a wife because you're also a wife, right? So your purpose can change throughout the day. And I think it's important just to be present in that moment. And we have kind of what we call mandatory date nights. We're into fast cars.

16:09Mandatory. Mandatory. Yeah. They are, man. They're a game changer for us. A hundred percent. Yeah. A lot of my clients, I make them do that stuff because they have to. Yeah. I mean, otherwise. Yeah. Present in your purpose. That was what I was going to write down. All right. Tell me about the cars. I'm hearing about that. Oh, no. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, I guess I've always been a car guy. She's become a car girl now. So, I mean, I've got some toys and I've got an R8. We got her a Porsche this summer for our anniversary. And so we spend a lot of time in some car groups. Yeah. Obviously, networking opportunity, but really great people.

16:50a lot of different conversations when you're around all those people who are successful in their different fields. And we've got people to do everything. And so it's really allowed us to go out and do something that we enjoy, which is driving and using our cars kind of as a tool, and also giving back. We'll go and use them for experiences with kids or schools or some of the rides, the benefit rides or whatever. We may do one this Saturday, which we get to go drive on of airstrip, which means you get to launch your car in around 140 miles an hour. I'm aware. That's why I asked. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

17:28So, yeah. But for us, it's just been something recent that I wouldn't allow myself to do. All my other toys aren't as fast. You know, they're nice and they're fun. But getting into that's kind of been something that we've both really enjoyed and has also been great for our business as well. I've seen more connections with that. Yeah. And gotten into airplanes yet. Oh. No, I don't know. Airplanes, I still feel like we should have had wings if we were supposed to be flying. Yeah, I got you. I understand. I understand. So, yeah. So what qualities do you look for in employees? And how do you foster that positive, productive work environment?

18:12Well, I think one is we do spend time with them. So when we go through, Jen typically is the first, you know, kind of person that looks through. Yeah, she goes through their resumes and kind of, you know, then says, all right, I think we should look at these people. I typically look more through their qualifications on the construction side or whatever we're hiring for. And then we'll do an initial interview. Just, you know, and I've got kind of a list of questions I'll go through that are obviously somewhat psychological, you know, in nature that I've picked up over the years. just to kind of get their opinions on things.

18:46And then we typically go eat with them. We go have lunch with them. We go have dinner with them. I see how they interact with a waiter or a waitress, right? Like big key indicator. How do you treat somebody who really, you know. Who's serving you. Yeah, is taking care of you. And then we just have light conversation. We talk about the business. We talk about where do they want to be in five years? What are their goals? Do they have kids? Like really learn all about them. And not that we use that criteria. Like if you have kids, we don't hire you or something like that, because most of our employees have kids or they've got grown kids.

19:19And we've got three kids. So I don't that's not like we don't hire based on that. But just to understand their mindset and where they want to be, because you get some people are like, man, I'm just looking for a paycheck. And, you know, like they're probably going to show up for work, but they're really not going to show up for work. and what we're looking for is people who want to come in and they want to be part of a team and they want to go do great things and they want to live a better life for it. And they're out there. It just takes a lot longer to find them. And so, I mean, we spend three to six months when we have to hire a position, sometimes finding the right fit.

19:57Because we do have a, I mean, our team is like, we've got a great team of people. Like some of them go to our church. Like I work out with a couple of them in the gym in the afternoon sometimes, like we've got great people that we live life with. And, uh, and, and, and we've had the, we've had the privilege, honestly, of changing their lives and helping them get, get houses. They didn't own houses and watch them have their babies and, and just, you know, become better people and just pour into them. And, you know, when you do that, What we've seen is that just you not only get employees, but you get people who get hungry to be better and to grow and be part of the organization and understand the mission.

20:41And it's really exciting to see that. More like a family than a work environment. I mean, obviously, we still put in the work, but we care about the company as if it were part of us, like not just me and Nathan, but our team. Like that's like they care because we do have that environment where it feels like, you know, it's it's not just work. Yeah, that's yeah. I think I think it's fantastic what you've created there. Sounds like an amazing culture. So, yeah. All right. I got it. So be epic is is is my acronym. And what I want to hear is a couple of words or maybe a sentence or two about each one, just your thoughts.

21:25It's, and I'll give you the letters. So I came up with this a few years ago when I wrote a book about, and just, and it's interesting what people's thoughts are. So I think this one would be easy for you. So B, I didn't have B in the beginning, but it was just epic, but I added B and B is bring the energy. So a couple of quick thoughts on bringing energy. So I think, you know, the first thing for us is, is, uh, we, we talk about core four, let's see, passion, purpose, productivity, and power. So the energy is going to be the power. We work out, um, pretty religiously. We stay in shape. We eat healthy.

22:05Our kids, they kind of have followed suit. They go to the gym once they work out. We've got three teenage boys. Half our employees all work out. They're healthy. You've got to keep your body healthy to bring the energy every day, right? And that's really what drives you to be able to do all the other things you've got to do. Yeah, I love that. I love that. So the E is education. Never stop learning, right? Never stop learning. Love it. Yeah. And I think we encourage that. Um, like actually we're getting several of our people certified for another certification, um, in the next couple of weeks, they're, they're signed up for some courses.

22:45And, and so that's, that's a big part, um, with the real estate, with what I do, you know, we, we go see coaches, we constantly listen to podcasts. You know, if, if we're getting ready in the bathroom, one of us, there's a podcast on of some sort that we're learning from. And so I think that's the key is you got to have that mindset that you're never going to know everything and you've got to constantly be learning. Yeah, I love that. P for planning. That's his specialty. So I'm the planner. This is the one who packs the morning we leave, right? So I think you kind of have to have a little bit of both.

23:25You know, you've got to be able to pivot, you know, because as an entrepreneur or a builder, especially your contractor, things are going to change throughout the day the week they're never going to go to plan it's going to rain so i think you've got to be able to to realign yourself but i think you've got to have a plan because if you don't you don't know where you're going and if you don't have a destination the plane cannot get there right you've got to know where you're headed yeah i love it i is inspiration we're just a little bit we have inspiration all over our house like we have quotes we have like you said the podcast that we listen to every morning we're very big on inspiration and inspiring our employees and um living by those words is what we try to do obviously without perfection but um we're always looking for ways to inspire um not just with our jobs but like with us with the fitness stuff like we um try to help people in the gym or inspire them to live healthy lives and take care of their their bodies and their health and and then with work you know you can take over with that you inspire um yeah i think just pouring back to you know like i've got i've got kids that constantly reach out to me yeah they're like i mean like walk up to me people don't know yeah like we'll be like we saw your video on social media and and just they're like hey man can i could i have a 30 minute call like could i could you just like jacob harper you know like this kid you know he found me and he's like dude can i have 30 minutes, I want to be a race car driver.

25:00And, you know, can you tell me how to market and get sponsors? You know, it's just like, we think it's super cool that we inspire this next generation, including our kids, like selfishly. But, you know, we've got stuff written on our mirrors that we read in the morning. So we are big believers in that. Yeah, no, yeah, finding it. Well, sounds like you're also being an inspiration as well, which is, which is, you're finding inspiration, but you're also being an inspiration, which I think is in a lot of ways the goal.

25:32C is commitment. Oh, commitment. I think that's in every part of life, right? So like commitment in your relationships, in your marriage, a commitment to your children, commitment to your employees, right? Your investors, your community. You know, I think being committed. Some people call it being obsessed. I think it's being committed to something that you believe in and having a higher standard than others. And I don't think you go to the next level without having a higher standard. And if you don't have the commitment, I mean, I just had this chat with my 14-year-old about wrestling because he was sad to miss practice.

26:15And I was like, look, you're either all in or you're out. You're we're not putting our toes in the water. You've got to be committed. If you're going to be part of that team, you have to show up every day. And so, you know, we try to live by those words. And obviously, you know, we fail sometimes. I think that's good that people see that everyone's human. And then you learn from those mistakes and then you just keep going. Like it. Thank you. What words of advice would you offer other business owners who are looking to grow? So I think one, build your network. Definitely, yeah, build your network.

26:53And make sure that you don't go out and just, and this is what I tell everybody, don't go and just be like, hey, buy my stuff, buy my stuff, buy my stuff. Be valued or offer value. That's right. Yeah, be valuable, right? Right. Show your worth to others and show that you don't just want them to be, you know, a buyer. Right. So if I'm in a group of people and somebody is like, man, I need to get my HVAC fixed. I'm like, hey, call this guy. You know, he can help you out. And it's all about becoming a resource. And a lot of times the relationships that we build over years, they grow fruit. but we have to plant those seeds years in advance.

27:34And so I think that's a big deal in that. And with that comes patience would be another key point is to not just try something and then give up and try something else and give up, like stay consistent and do the same thing and have patience because it does take time. Everything takes time. But don't be afraid to kind of change it and find out what works, right? Because we put systems in place and what the systems that worked at$2 million in revenue, we broke them at$8 million. And then we broke them at$15 million, right? So I always joke, let's build this system and let's get it to work. And then let's do so much business, let's break it and let's figure out how to make it better, right?

28:17So I think that's a key too. Yeah. Yeah, the same stuff that got you to$15 won't get you to$100. So, yeah, just not going to happen, right? That's cool. So what's the next big thing? I guess we got a lot of developments coming up. You know, in the rebuilding, the first, what, five years? Like, we really couldn't do a lot of development, you know, starting back from zero. Obviously, it's an expensive habit, but it was always like one of my goals to get back there. And so we've got, man, I think we've got like four developments breaking ground in the next 12 months, you know, all the way from big shopping centers with rooftop bars and food courts and mixed use projects.

29:05And so really excited to get back into bringing all these developments that we've been working on over the past year to life and then just continue to grow. So, you know, we've been blessed. You know, I kind of joke it's like bamboo season. We stole that from a pastor that we listen to online sometimes. And, you know, bamboo grows underground where you don't see it for years. And then it comes up everywhere. And you can't get rid of it. Right. And you can't get rid of it. And it grows something like 50 feet in a year or something. I mean, it's something crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And so we've seen that we've seen that exponential growth because like like Jim brought up, we were patient and we were consistent and we were committed like you brought up, you know, in your acronym.