Behind the Cabinets: The Real Work of Building a Trades Business with Brandon Laney

0:02Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of the Epic Entrepreneurs Podcast, where we are all about helping business owners just like you achieve success. So we don't do fancy smancy. We don't do flashing lights. We don't do a lot of things that a lot of podcasts will do. These are just real stories about real people and their entrepreneurial and business experiences. as we go into their wins, their challenges, and their learnings. So we hope you enjoy it.

0:34Brandon Laney:Good day, everyone. Welcome to this week's episode of Epic Entrepreneurs. I am Cliff McRae with Action Coach Business Growth Partners, where we work with local business owners to turn big ideas into real scalable growth. Today, I'm excited to be joined by Brandon Laney with Progressive Cabinets. So, Brandon, how are you doing today? Good, thank you. Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much for being here. So let's go ahead and jump right in. So for those of you who may not know it yet, who is Brandon Laney and what is Progressive Cabinets? yes so um progressive cabinets um it's custom cabinet shop i've been in business for um almost 11 years uh this month actually uh but i've grown up doing cabinets pretty much my whole life so uh that's probably my learning is still um doing cabinets my dad has a cabinet shop still do a little bit different things so we kind of split up years ago but all in good terms we had done commercial residential right now we've been focusing more on high end custom residential cabinets and we've dabbled in a little bit of closets we do a little bit of commercial just kind of depends on what the demand is in the market But residential has been what we want to do.

2:03I like doing the best work that we can. I like the relationships with homeowners. So, yeah, that's what we kind of did in a nutshell.

2:12Brandon Laney:Okay, okay. So take us back to the very beginning. What made you say, yep, I'm doing this, I'm starting that business? Well, actually, like I said, I grew up doing it. So I thought I was going to do something else. I actually had went to technical college, got a degree, associate degree in computer technology. I was going to do, actually I got my Cisco certification to do computer networking. And at some point I was going to, I guess Cadmus was kind of always my plan to do, I guess. And I got to where I almost started a business doing like home networking and things. was stuck all before the small things that we know as today, I guess.

3:02And 2008 happened, and the economy tanked, and I thought, that's kind of the last thing people's going to put in their house because technology updates itself so fast. And I thought, well, I love math, and I like being able to figure out how things they learn in school, which a lot of times you don't see how things that they teach in school. you have to move in the real world at least in math but I was able to figure out a lot of things I was learning in school calculus and trig and things that I could actually use in cabinetry so that sparked my interest more and just really thought that like I said I like doing a lot of nice work for people I like a challenge so when I come up with certain things you know hitting the big cake doors and just crazy things that people come up with.

3:55I like to be able to sell those. So I was doing that for my dad for a while. I ran in the shop for about 10 years, I believe. So that's kind of where things started, I guess. And decided that I did. I guess I slowly became more passionate about it, about doing nice work. And the ball in the back is nice. So I don't think it's all for that. I just started going to solve problems, I guess. So, yeah, fast forward a little bit. I was doing for a while. I was doing work on the side. Nice weekends. That kind of gets old quick. And I kind of always thought about, like, doing, you know, my dad's business would expand, but he always wanted to stay small.

4:46And I get that. Now that I have my own business, I'm down by it. I just want to go for it.

4:55I kind of had, before I really dove into a deep, I actually was kind of thinking about becoming a missionary overseas. And I thought, where is God leading me? And I felt like the connections that I had and everything, that it could be both. and that nobody I could run the business here and be able to support missions overseas and trips and things like that. So it's kind of where it led me to.

5:30Brandon Laney:So if you had to start again from absolute scratch, you know, let's say no brand, no clients, no safety net, what would you do differently the second time around?

5:44That's a good question. I probably would try to outsource a little bit I think when I first started the type of cabin that I would do I do a European style box frames box and you actually have to have you know pretty accurate machinery to be able to do that so I did outsource to another shop cutting parts at first probably the first three years but yeah there was probably some other things I should have had to like out and grew that more I started seeing that the shop was cutting for me you know could potentially be I mean they kind of were a competitor but if they started seeing me more as a competitor they might get start you know cutting how much they do for me cutting my legs out from under me so I started thinking really quick.

6:43I didn't bring as much as I can in-house. Instead of working on that relationship and just trying to make it where I could go longer without having to make a lot of investments. So I've been building a lot in the machine, but I just make it where you have a lot of overhead. I think I could have maxed that a little bit farther and made that last a little longer on that relationship. I still have a good relationship with the shop, but I could have just rode that just a little bit longer, I think.

7:15Brandon Laney:So what's a lesson you'd say you learned the hard way as a business owner that no one really prepares you for?

7:26I think a lot of people, I mean, growing up, I kind of saw a lot of stuff from my dad. and it's people ask me a lot like you know he was a small business he was self-taught I think it's a lot of small business you just kind of you start doing a side gig and it turns into a full-fledged business and you just kind of learn as you go and that's what I thought was and I did learn some things you know country-wise with him I've, you know, grown and expanded on that. So, you know, nothing, no sugar to hang on. But I also learned a lot of things, you know, whether it's cabinets or just in business in general, of things not to do.

8:16So that was good. So I kind of had this, you know, idea of how things were going to be that, you know, it might take like nights and weekends and you're probably going to work more hours than your employees are or something. At the end of the day, my name's on the product and I've got a customer's needs. An employee can quit and go to work somewhere else. But yeah, I think that's a big thing that people don't realize, especially going from an employee to an employee or something, is they don't realize the hours that it takes. Especially in the beginning to just try to get a business off the ground.

8:59you know, starting a business from scratch, uh, it's really difficult because you don't have the systems and processes in place and you're trying to build all that stuff. Um, it can be real difficult. Okay.

9:11Brandon Laney:So what's one common myth people believe about running a business that makes you laugh now when you hear it? Oh, yeah. You know, you got it, you know, you got all this money, you got, uh, all the time. We're going on vacation. and things like that. I guess it depends on my coach, Charlie and Phillies. To me, it's probably to my detriment. So my, maybe I still want to have that go, but my Phillies are kind of like family to me, so they know a lot of what's going on. Some things need to stay hidden from them, I guess. But they seem high and low in the struggles and things. So for the most part, they get it.

9:59If I'm having an off day or something like that, they might realize that, oh, yeah, he probably stayed up to a three or four and then getting a job here or whatever it is. So they kind of get it. But it seems to be like whenever somebody new comes in, a new hire, they haven't seen all that kind of stuff yet. And so they just expect that, like, you know, I've got it all figured out and everything's perfect. And that is not the case. I think there was a guy who had done some work with. I thought I'd go to church with a guy. He's 73. He's had a business for 40-something years. And still the same struggle, which we were just talking about a couple weeks ago.

10:41He was tired of some of the issues of employees, insurance. And I asked him, I said, well, you seem like you've got to figure it out. You know, even from looking at him, but I've always got to do some things. And I asked him, how long have you worked? He's like about 60, 65, and he's 73 years old. I think he was probably ready to try to build systems and things to get out of that. And I think he's probably right there at some point. But like right now, he's got multiple hoes out, whether he was sickness or sickness in a fan or something. So when it comes down to it, like I said, you're not going with him.

11:20so that he's having to do the rest to do and get back in there like he was in his 30s or whatever and do it like it's from scratch just because he's got to make sure business keeps going. So it's not all easy.

11:39Brandon Laney:All right. So be honest. Are you naturally more of an entrepreneur or an employee at heart? Probably more of an employee at heart. I know being more of an entrepreneur, some people just love creating businesses. Mine just came out of, I guess, the love for cabinetry. So I don't get to do as much because I need to work on the business. And sometimes I'll push head to the side because I'd rather be out in the shop or rather be with customers. And so to make that transition has been a little difficult. but I know parts of the business side of it as well I've grown a lot a little bit more I don't see myself as wanting to try to create multiple businesses I think the one I have I just want to make it work and that's it you know so how do you personally handle stepping away from the business you know like taking a vacation

12:48I try to I try to just get far enough I can take the time off usually if it's I usually just try to take longer weekends if possible but if it's something that I'm taking a week off or if I've been on a mission trip or something for two weeks you know In that case, I usually will still have my computer with myself in case something goes wrong, but I'll try to get enough work stacked up where the guys can get things down without me. It depends on how the time is. Sometimes it's been harder because I haven't had a lot of people in place. Other times it's been pretty easy. Just, you know, here you go.

13:33I'm leaving and they take care of it. So, yeah, it just kind of depends on the personnel all the time.

13:40Brandon Laney:Yeah, so how do you handle plugging in the evening? Are you typically at 6, 7 p.m.? You turn your phone off, you're done for the day? It sounds like you do work around the clock, though, compared to what you said before. Yeah, I kind of find that I'm more than an hour, but I've got four kids, so I think it's kind of hard to balance everybody's schedules. so getting work done during the day and during the day, business is going on so you've got phone calls and emails and all the things and you've got after school sports and other things so it's usually at night when everything's settled on if I hit that second I will usually try to push through because everybody's in bed, nobody's calling me and I can get a lot more done that way but yeah, sometimes I just, whether I get along I'm just I'm too tired and I can know what I'd be better if I just get more sleep.

14:40But I do try a lot at least for that employment or whatever. I had started probably about a year and a half ago where I never utilized the Do Not Disturb on my phone. And I started putting that on. So really at 5.30 unless they're in my face, customers, nobody can really call me. I might see the message and decide if I'm going to respond back or not, but I try to just cut off about 5.30 in the afternoon. So if I do have some work, I'm just kind of finishing up for the day, and that's it. I try to balance it as much as I can, but I don't think there's a perfect work-life balance. Sometimes you just got to go a little more work.

15:25Other times you can relax.

15:28Brandon Laney:All right. So looking back, what do you attribute most to your growth in your business so far?

15:38I would say word of mouth. I think the way we connected was through B &I. So I do not agree if I get built from that. Most of it is just word of mouth, just trying to sometimes go reach out to contractors individually. It's just really just been past customers driving that. And, yeah, I would say that on a spiritual level, I mean, I fully think God's been in control. So there's been times when I'm thinking I'm going to just close the doors and I get the perfect job at the perfect time. So I don't want to belittle that at all because that has really been a big part of my success, I think. And, you know, he's got just provided whenever I needed it.

16:36Okay.

16:37Brandon Laney:And now you do have employees that work for you, right? Right. Yeah. Okay. So when you're building a team, and this is, you know, kind of more hypothetical, but when you're building a team and you're looking to hire employees, what traits matter more to you than what's on someone's resume? Soft skills, for sure. showed up, passed a drug test, cleaned the eye marker, all those simple things you would think would be commonplace, but it's not so common anymore. But my last hire, I actually was part of my anchor. He's done a lot of different things. And he was telling me something that took a lot of high detail to be able to do what he was doing.

17:24and that right there I can usually teach probably if I didn't do this I would be a teacher honestly, maybe teach cabinets or something in school but I thought if he knows that kind of teaching in detail then I can teach him all the things he's been a really good employee so far he's been with us for a few months and And that's kind of the things I'm looking for is just, you know, soft skills, attention to detail. You know, it's nice if they know a little bit about cats, but sometimes you have bad habits that come in. Everybody's got their own opinion. They're going to have a chocolate or something a little differently, and that's fine.

18:10Now that you're an employee, then you can do it how I want it done. Okay.

18:16Brandon Laney:Okay. So what's something that you do for your employees to keep your workplace positive, motivated and productive, you know, especially like during like a stressful or tiring time?

18:29I don't know if you've seen that I can still do. It's kind of like a routine thing. I know times they pretty much know that I'm not asking to do anything that I wouldn't do myself so definitely if it's you know, we're under the gun and you know, maybe not with the deadline or something like that I'm going to be right out there with them on the job and we did more commercials sometimes we'd have jobs we'd have to meet a deadline and we'd be out there until 2 or 3 o 'clock in the morning making sure it was done. And I was very long with it. I could have been like, well, I had business to run. You go out there, that's what I paid for.

19:16That's fine, but I think sometimes that kind of brings my eye down. So when they say that, I'm right there and I think I'll be with them. I really appreciated that. And I'm also a lot more lenient with, like I said, I do like with customers. I like the relationships. I'm kind of like that with employees. And I see them as a person. I'm just a member of a big corporation or something. So when things come up, if it's all the time, that's one thing. But if things come up and you leave early because they got to get home to a wife or something, whatever, I try to accommodate as much as I can. If we can shift things around, if I can cover four and four at the last hour of the day, I think they appreciate that as well.

20:06Yeah, no, I agree with that.

20:09Brandon Laney:So, all right, so we're going to head into what's called the quickfire round. So how this works is I'm going to say one word, and I just want you to tell me the first thing that comes to your mind when you hear each word in regards to running your business and then expand upon what you meant by the one word that you use. Does that make sense? Yeah. All right. Perfect. So first word is education.

20:34just one word

20:37Brandon Laney:well no no I mean you know you come back with the first idea and then you expand upon what you mean by the first idea that you gave um scheme

20:50so I think that's kind of a common thing right now is that college is a scheme kind of thing and I don't think that it is totally I always thought I was going to school be a doctor so we obviously had it for something but definitely what I went to school for I didn't use the last time I was talking about his attention to detail and see high school college dropout but super super smart guy I just didn't see a need for it in the market so I think we've probably 42 next month or any more rather. And it's

21:33even for me growing up, it's always been pushed. Like, there's college for everyone and that's not the answer. So I really didn't actually want to divide the board at one of our local high schools and trying to, on the carpentry side, just try to grow that a little bit more. I think a lot of guidance counselors have I've just been seeing the kids that doesn't see my college material straight towards them. And we actually do need, you know, multiple people in all trades, in construction. You know, it doesn't matter. And so, unfortunately, that has just been, you know, looked upon as a trade that's not a good-paying job.