Building A Safer Hearth: How A Chimney Company Scales With Heart, Skill, And Grit with Ben Seidman

0:02Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of the Epic Entrepreneurs podcast where we are all about helping business owners just like you achieve success. So we don't do fancy smancy. We don't do flashing lights. We don't do a lot of things that a lot of podcasts will do. These are just real stories about real people and their entrepreneurial and business experiences. We go into their wins, their challenges, and their learnings. So we hope you enjoy it. All right. Welcome to this week's episode of Epic Entrepreneurs. I'm Cliff McRae filling in for Bill Gilliland with your local business training and coaching firm, Action Coach Business Growth Partners.

0:44I'm excited to have Ben Seidman with Flu Fighters as the focus for our Epic Entrepreneurs podcast episode today. So, Ben, please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about yourself and your company and what primary products or services you offer the community. Sure. Yeah. Hey, Cliff. Thanks for this opportunity. My name is Ben Seidman. I own Flu Fighters Chimney Company here in Asheville. We have been around since the summer of 2023, so still pretty new, but I've been in the industry for about five years. And what we do is we're a turnkey chimney and fireplace trades company. So our foot in the door is an inspection where we get into the house and we inspect the existing chimney and fireplace.

1:34I always relate it to a new patient visit at a doctor's office. So we're going to look at every single aspect of the system, getting on the roof, looking at the waterproof capabilities of the chimney, the integrity of the chimney, then moving to the inside of the system, running a camera through the flue, then getting into the home and looking at the firebox or the appliance, whatever they may be using at the time. And then I think our bread and butter is the education and the customer interaction. and I kind of want to change the game as far as having a trades company come into your house. Oftentimes, it gets very stuffy and awkward.

2:14We want it to be a really genuine interaction with homeowners. You know, you're inviting us into your home, and we want to respect that and acknowledge that. So it's very organic, and we spend a lot of time educating the homeowner, letting them know what's going on with their system, what possibilities exist to bring it to where they want it, and just kind of lead them on their path to getting a functioning system. Okay. Yeah, love it, love it. So if you had to start your business from square one, what would you do differently? That's a good question. I don't know if I would necessarily do anything differently.

2:58I think, I think mistakes and lessons are part of the process. And without making those mistakes, um, you, you can't really learn. Um, um, the biggest hiccup and the biggest hurdle for me has honestly been Helene has been the storm from last year. But I mean, I went to college for, for wilderness leadership. So I, I am not a businessman by any, by any means I'm from South Florida. Um, so, you know, chimneys and fireplaces, it was not something I grew up using. Um, so it's, it's all new every day I'm learning something new. Uh, and that's part of the process that I honestly cherish. I mean, it's, it's hard at times, of course, um, I've made mistakes and, But I believe in the process and trust the process.

3:49And I don't think I would do anything differently. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And you said you're from South Florida. What a difference in weather here. Actually, on the day we're filming this, it's really, really cold here in Western North Carolina today. It's about 20 degrees outside. Sure, it's a much different climate than Florida, than South Florida especially. Yes. So, yeah. So what have you what have your biggest learnings been as an owner since you started your business? As of right now, you know, things that I'm going through this season, the biggest thing is I want to please everybody. When I started this, you know, I didn't start this company to get rich.

4:31I really cherish the relationships and the communication with with customers. um so i think the the the biggest teachable moment for me thus far has been that i you can't please everybody um and being okay with that and and at the end of the day if i can you know go to bed knowing that i did my best um that's that's really and and that everything that we have done is is I'm doing air quotes because I'm going to say the safe word. You know, at the end of the day, as long as I can make sure that everything that we are putting out there in people's homes is safe, then I'm happy. But people are people.

5:19I mean, I can't please everybody. And I'm starting to learn that as unfortunate as that is. It's just the nature of the beast. But just being okay with that and continuing to do what I think is the right thing, that's my biggest lesson right now, at least in this season, in this moment. Okay. And you kind of touched on it a little bit earlier. You said during the Hurricane Helene in 2024, you had some of your biggest learnings. Let's dig into that a little bit more. What would you say, I mean, what did you learn during that? yeah um i don't necessarily know if there were any lessons i may need to sit you know and think about what i could actually take away from helene uh but it you know helene hit us in september um right when our busy season would typically begin to to build momentum um and i had just hired a new technician.

6:22So I had two technicians. I had an office manager working for me when Helene hit. So when Helene hit, the phones stopped ringing. We weren't getting any calls to do repair work because everyone was focusing on more important things, their roof, their house, their cars, They're, you know, everything else. And then pushing into the meat of that season. So November, December, January, it was slow. I, you know, I had to lay off one of my new technicians. I had to lay off my office manager, which was, it crushed me to do that. And then my first technician, he actually ended up leaving in late March or early April.

7:12again just because the backlog wasn't there where you know during those busy cold months we would start building a backlog for spring and we just didn't have that backlog so when spring rolled around he was just like hey man i just i i need more money i need more consistency and i i don't blame him at all but he he left uh and unfortunately two or three weeks right after he left the floodgates opened everything kind of got back to normal a little bit the phone was ringing off the hook. Um, so I had to, I hired two new guys. Um, luckily my wife's schedule kind of leveled out a little bit. So she came on as my office administrator.

7:54Uh, so it did work organically. Uh, I still have those two new technicians. I sent them to school and got them certified. Um, I, I guess now that we're having this conversation, the lesson from this is just kind of having faith, staying the course, um, knowing that, you know, for every down there's an up, I guess. Um, and just, just trusting, having faith, I guess. Um, but that, that was, that was hard. Um, and I guess another big piece of that is I'm in the national guard. So once me and my family had our basic needs met, once our power and our water was restored, I then jumped on a activation to go to hot springs and help out uh so then I was gone from the business for an additional two weeks so I was trying to work remotely and send you know try to create leads and create jobs for my team while I was away it was very challenging um but we survived and we're we're doing better than we have in the past so nice uh yeah yeah okay that's good to hear yeah so what are some common misconceptions about running a business would you say it's definitely not for everybody i i don't i think people know that i think if if it was easy more people would do it um i was kind of my hand was kind of forced into into starting a business i kind of have a odd sad story as far as how i got to where i am um i was working for another chimney company and was laid off for reasons that we don't necessarily need to get into um but my hand was forced you know it um i had always wanted to work for myself but the thought of it was terrifying you know being starting from scratch and just having to learn everything but how the cards were laid out for me um it just seemed organic and seemed like the right thing to do and i mean it was hard and it was challenging and there's moments that you know just sucked um but if you just do it you you can get through it so i mean misconceptions i mean it's hard i think everybody knows it's hard um you're definitely not making money right away you're definitely in the red or breaking even uh for the first little bit Um, so there's definitely, I guess, I guess the financial aspect is, is a common misconception.

10:27People think that when you start a business, you're just going to be raking in the cash, but insurance and bills and, you know, little overhead costs and materials and all these things that adds, it adds up quickly. And then uncle Sam comes around and takes what's his. And that was, that was an eye opener taxes. Yep. No, no, I gotcha. So how do you handle taking vacations while running a business? I think you just have to, you know, prioritize yourself. I'm one of the reasons behind starting my business was I wanted that work life balance that I now know doesn't necessarily exist. But I had these ideals, I guess, that like I wake up in the morning, take my kid to school, have coffee with my wife and, you know, kind of set my own schedule.

11:14And because I'm a people pleaser, I very quickly take away from my own time to meet the needs of everybody else. But during this busy season, my wife forced me. She said, hey, from Christmas Eve to the day after New Year's, you're going to take off. And I did to the extent of my ability. But because I have a very hungry group of guys who want to work, I have to be present for them. So we couldn't necessarily leave town. Not that we really wanted to, but, um, I think you just, we just do it. You know, we, we find a time on the schedule where we think we can get away and we just block it off and we just do it.

11:56Um, again, I'm so thankful for my group of guys that are hungry, that are smart and they just want to, they just want to keep charging. So, um, I make sure that I brief them thoroughly on, on what's coming up and what to do. And they just continued to knock it out of the park and make my job a whole lot easier. So I think, you know, just having a good group of guys and just prioritizing yourself and your health and your family. You just you just have to do it sometimes. It's never going to be perfect. You're never going to be ready for it. But you need to take those breaks. So just just doing it.

12:35OK. And what have you attributed to your growth so far? My team. I have three technicians now, two of which are CSIA certified. So that's the Chimney Safety Institute of America. I got them certified almost right away upon coming on board with me. But they're hungry. They're young. They want to work. They want to learn. They want to please. And I would not be where I am without them. Even my last technician, who's no longer with me, I pride myself on being a very real, genuine person. I don't really sugar kill anything. I wear my heart in my sleeves. I tell people if I'm struggling. I ask questions if I need help.

13:22And I think that is well-received and rare in this day and age.

13:31I think my team values that. I encourage my team to do the same for me. Just an open book. If they need help, if they have questions, I don't want anyone to be afraid to come to me. So I'm just creating a nice environment for them to feel safe to where they can do right by me, do right by themselves. And yeah, I would not be here without them. So they're my number one. Okay. Okay. Okay. So yeah, you've talked a lot about your text during the conversation. So, you know, going into that a little bit more, what qualities do you look for? Do you look for anything particular when you're looking for your employees?

14:11yeah i guess you know stemming from my military background i want people who are solution oriented the work we do is not beautiful work it's it's hard it's we're on really sketchy roofs sometimes at heights we're in crawl spaces on our belly busting flue tiles using power tools getting dirty it it's it's miserable work at times um so i want people who are gritty who understand that we work hard but then we play hard as well i treat my guys really well um so i want you know gritty stick to it miss um solution oriented you know problems are going to pop up but if they come to me with the problem and then hey this is what i'm thinking this is my solution and then we can kind of find holes in that um just you know going above and beyond seeing you know two three four steps ahead of where we are that way we can make sure that uh just everything falls in place as it should um we're in a range of different homes and we've with a range of clientele anywhere from you know small you know cottages um one bedroom homes to seven to ten million dollar homes and built more village uh so obviously everyone needs to be treated but there's a different kind of communication that needs to be done between those i guess different demographics uh so people who can read a room know when to joke what no one to be serious um treat everybody we meet with respect um those the kind of people that i that i'm looking for uh that have values and ethics um we're again we're i think people in the trades or people think of the trades kind of in a negative light um just being dirty and impolite and gritty and just all that and that's just not i guess that's the script that I want to flip.

16:30We're educated, we're smart, we're intelligent, we're husbands and fathers and brothers and all this stuff. We're human at the end of the day. I lost a train of thought there. But yeah, if you have the soft skills of being a good, genuine human, that's what I want. I can teach you the ins and outs of being a chimney technician because nobody knows anything about chimneys. But if you have the basic building blocks of being a good person, I can teach you all the hard skills. Okay. Gotcha. All right. So now we're going to head into the quickfire round. So basically what's going to happen here is I'm going to say a word, one word, and then you just give me kind of the first thing that comes to mind when you think about running your business, when you hear that word.

17:18The first word is education. Oh, absolutely. Number one. Do you want me to expand upon that or do you just want? Yeah, no, that'd be great. Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah, so our industry is really unique. It's a very dangerous thing what we're doing. We're making it so people can put fires in their home and we want that fire to be contained and stay in that one space, in that fireplace. Our industry is not, there's really no checks and balances. To be an electrician or a plumber, you need to a trade school, you need a certification, you need a license, you need to maybe pull permits or whatever.

17:57For us, that doesn't exist. You could just buy a van, go to Home Depot, buy a chimney sweeping kit, slap some stickers on your van, and boom, you're in business. You're a chimney sweep. But the industry is changing. We're trying to become more legitimate by creating these schools. So I think it was in the 70s, the CSIA, there it is again, the Chimney Safety Institute of America was founded. Don't quote me on when exactly it came around. I think it was the 70s. But we're starting to learn more. We're starting to use science and technology to learn more about clearances and draft and pressure inside the home.

18:38Um, so there's so much more that goes into a chimney and a fireplace than what people think all to almost every day we go into a home and we tell, you know, folks, Hey, unfortunately, because of this, whatever going on in your system, um, it is now not up to code. I guess, you know, code changes well. Um, and unfortunately nothing is grandfathered in. We can't grandfather in the fact that we now know more about something and how your chimney was initially constructed is no longer safe. We can't ignore that. So that grandfathering clause just doesn't exist in what we do. But I spend a lot of time, a lot of money getting my guys educated.

19:24We need continuing education units to maintain our certifications. My guys are CSIA certified sweeps. Here next, in two weeks, we are all going to go to an inspection class. We're not going to get a certification to be inspectors, but they're going to at least learn NFPA standards and codes. Um, I am a certified chimney and fireplace inspector through an organization called fire. Um, which is, gosh, that was a five day, 12 hours a day course, just, just a fire hose worth of information. Um, so I pride myself on education, make sure that my guys are educated that way. Again, we can educate the homeowners.

20:14Again, that's kind of where I think our bread and butter is. I think that's what sets us apart from all the other chimney companies in the area is the fact that we sit down with the customer and let them know, hey, this is what's going on. This is what happens if you don't fix it. This is what we can do to fix it. These are your options. And then kind of guide them on that path. So education is absolutely number one for us. Okay. Planning. Planning. Planning. um yeah yeah um so how we operate is we we go we do an inspection we then provide an estimate um and you know once the customer approves we send a deposit and then we order material so from that point on we need to or i guess really the planning starts at the inspection i tell my guys all the time when you're inspecting you need to be wearing multiple hats you need to be wearing your inspector hat but you also need to be wearing the hat of the installer and planning how you're going to do whatever job you're proposing to the customer.

21:15So planning, okay, where am I going to put a ladder? Where am I, you know, will a ladder work? Do we need to lift? Do we need scaffolding? Where's it going to go? Do we need to pull a permit or something? Do we need to run electric or do we need to run gas to the fireplace if they're converting from wood to gas? Um, and then once a job is approved, you know, ordering material, getting them on the calendar, planning, you know, I guess seasonality, you know, where we are right now in this, in this cold season where we were in a temperate rainforest, so it's always a little wet, but all of my waterproofing jobs, I'm having to, to push out and my chimney rebuilds, I'm having to push those out to spring.

22:02Um, just because we don't have the weather for it right now. So yeah, planning is, is paramount as well. Inspiration, inspiration. Um, I pull inspiration from a little bit of everything. Um, you know, I, I have a business coach, so, you know, she inspires me to, to do better and, uh, seeing where she is and how quickly she got there is, is inspiring. Um, I'm big into fitness, so I'm inspired by, um, you know, some athletes. Um, I am, and I guess, you know, as, as, as a father of a four-year-old, I want to make sure that I'm setting a good example to inspire him. Um, I don't necessarily care what he does in life as long as, you know, I help inspire and build those, those soft skills for him, you know, to be a good person.

23:00um and i guess similarly for my team you know every time i get a good review or a bad review i send that to my team to let them know you know where our shortcomings were what we could have done differently um to inspire them to learn from their mistakes and again like kind of the first question you asked me to get to get to success i mean you have you have to fail you have to there's a yin and a yang there's for every up there's a down um so you can't ignore that you can't hide that it's it's all part of the process so being honest and genuine i think i i hope to inspire my guys to to kind of be the same and just appreciate um to appreciate that okay love it commitment yeah um that makes me think of you know the only thing you have in life is your word so once something leaves your mouth you are committed to that again we're all human I have definitely not lived up and met that on occasion but I acknowledge that and I own my faults almost too much but just committing to getting better committing to whatever to whatever goals you're setting without commitment I think you're just wishy washy No, I agree.

24:30So what words of advice would you offer to other business owners who are looking to grow? stay the course um it's not easy no one you know i don't again i don't think anyone thinks running a business is easy um but just stay the course it if you just keep pouring into your business and pouring into yourself and learning um eventually you will get to the point where i don't think things aren't necessarily easier you just get stronger you just get better at adapting maybe and and your your skin gets thicker um but just keep going um yeah i i'm not a quitter i don't i don't believe in quitting you know there's i guess there's a point where you realize that something's just not working you have to pivot but um man i i just stay the course just keep going just just keep getting up just keep getting up keep showing fun up okay Okay.

25:25So what would you say is the next big thing for flu fighters? Next big thing. Um, so yeah, we're three technicians for including myself. And then my wife is, is the office, um, manager kind of HR, but she needs to step out of that role to focus on our, on our kid and our little homestead that we have. Um, so I need to hire a new technician. I need to hire a new office manager and then we need a building. Um, we just added onto our fleet, excuse me. I think it was October ish. We bought a new truck. I just got it wrapped. So now, you know, our, our capacity has doubled, but now we need a building.

26:06Um, so I have a couple feelers out to get a, to get a building, um, where we can start having meetings and, and, you know, more consistent trainings for the guys. Um, So I think that's next is a building and then a couple new additions to the team. Perfect, perfect. Yeah, since you're hiring, what's the best way for someone to find or get in touch with you? Yeah, just shoot us an email. It's simple. It's ben at flu-fighters. It's F-L-U-E dash fighters dot com. Or excuse me, yeah, ben at flu-fighters dot com. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Any social media? Yeah, of course. Yeah, we're on social media, Instagram and Facebook.

26:53Not as active as I'd like to be right now. I'm the one managing it. But, you know, part of the job description for anybody who wants to come be working the office is managing some of that social media content. Fantastic. No, I appreciate that. Thank you so much for being a part of the community and all that you're doing. We certainly wish you continued success. And I really thank you for coming on today. It's a wonderful conversation. Yeah, great. Thank you, Cliff. This was a good opportunity. Yeah, thank you. Hey, thanks for listening to the Epic Entrepreneurs Podcast. Here's three things that you can do.

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