Business and Passion with Tyler West

0:02Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of the Epic Entrepreneurs podcast where we are all about helping business owners just like you achieve success. So we don't do fancy smancy. We don't do flashing lights. We don't do a lot of things that a lot of podcasts will do. These are just real stories about real people and their entrepreneurial and business experiences. We go into their wins, their challenges, and their learnings. So we hope you enjoy it. Hey there, welcome to this week's episode of Epic Entrepreneurs, brought to you by Action Coach Growth Partners. I'm your host, Bill Gilliland, and in this podcast, you'll find three things.

0:46You're going to hear real stories from real entrepreneurs that will help you along your entrepreneurial journey. You're also going to get business tips to help you scale up faster, and you're going to get actual coaching to help you get better real world results to be the best entrepreneur you can be. Hey, and if you like the podcast, remember to subscribe. And now, enjoy the show. Hey, hope you're having a great week. Welcome to this week's episode of Epic Entrepreneurs. I'm here with Tyler West of Clawhammer Inc. It's so good to have you, Tyler. Thanks, Bill. I really appreciate the time and having me on the show.

1:26Yeah. So, Tyler, first of all, yeah, what is Clawhammer Inc., and how did you get into business in the first place? All right, yeah. So, Clawhammer Inc., it's kind of an ambiguous name for a business. Really, when I started that business, it was to be able to be multiple different entities. And where we ended up, I'll back up and give you the back story. I grew up in an entrepreneurial family. It was mostly my father and I growing up. construction. And through all my childhood, I wore multiple different hats. And, you know, really looking back at it, I'm very thankful to have the kind of child rearing I had with a very open dialogue about business and numbers and kind of served me very well through life.

2:17I, from age, you know, six, I was on the job site to about 23. And then when I got out of school, I went to Appalachian State for construction. It was 2008. It was a housing crisis, and nobody was looking for a young kid to come out of college for construction when there was no business to be had. So I made a deviation in life, and I ended up chasing a passion, a dream in cycling. That would be bicycles. I worked in the cycling industry for 12 years and went all over the world and worked for We're two of the largest companies in that kind of field, both multi-billion dollar businesses. And maybe 2019, we had some family health issues in my family.

3:01And it led me to leaving my career for 12 years and moving back to Asheville, North Carolina from Canada at the time. And kind of taking over, overseeing our family construction business. We rebuild, you know, 10 to 15 homes a year. And that actually led me to wanting to continue in that career. And that's where I'm at today. I'm, you know, I've got my own business in Clawhammer Inc. And, you know, we do land development. We purchase land, build homes and sell them. Have multiple different partnerships throughout the community here. So Clawhammer, it's kind of a coverall, to say the least. Yeah, yeah.

3:44It sounds like you've got a lot of things going on. You're doing development. You're doing building. uh you've got some um some other things so it's interesting yeah i mean 2008 2009 was a tough time in the construction industry we were we uh yeah a lot of our clients are in somehow related to building something and uh either construction subs you know architects whatever and yeah it was tough it was a tough time but uh so are you still involved with the cycling industry how how How's that playing out? Yeah. Yeah. You know, you speak of 2008, 2009, our family business, we consumed four failed partnerships.

4:22And for six years, it took us, almost took us under several times, but we got through it as a family. But I was constantly on the phone with my parents while working in the cycling industry, you know, just kind of being a cheerleader, a friend, a coach, as much as, you know, just their son at the time. And, yeah, actually, I still am in the cycling industry in my spare time, which I have copious amounts, I'm sure you can imagine. But I am a contractor for a large bicycle company and actually run a test program here in Western North Carolina. And we have probably 10, 20 different folks that test products before they ever hit the market.

5:03Just, you know, just a way to fulfill a passion. But what I learned in that industry is it's much smaller than the building industry is it's very difficult to make a living. And when I moved home and took over the family building business, it really showed me that maybe my passion and my way of making a living didn't have to be the same. They could be two different things and I could continue to make a living, have flexibility to do things I want with my life, but also fill some time with this passion project that I had on the side. So is there money in the testing, in the contracting? Is it part of your business too, or is it just kind of like I'm trying to break even on that deal?

5:44Yeah, interesting. Yeah, there is money. I'm paid to do it personally. The folks that I have working or that help with it are all volunteers for the company. but between the money they pay me and then the all the free bicycles I get you know five or six a year it really helps with my expenses because otherwise it's probably a 30 to 40 to 50 thousand dollar a year expense just buying bicycles and traveling and all that fun stuff to do that yeah to do that yeah we'll come back we're gonna I'm gonna come back to the passion in a minute but yeah you said something that was interesting that I think most people have a have a business And then they have usually have some other separate passion as well.

6:26And so you said that your passion and your way of making a living don't have to be the same. And I've never heard anybody put it that way. Tell us more about your philosophy there, I guess. You know, I think, yeah, absolutely. My philosophy there is based on just my experience in life at this point. You know, since I was a kid and growing up in an entrepreneurial family, It was always about making money, building houses, and the next big project. And I remember I was 23 years old sitting across the closing table from a family, a husband and wife in their 60s. And I was buying their house that was in foreclosure to turn it and flip it and make some money.

7:10And a big part of who I am and who our family business is, every deal, everybody wins. If anyone loses, it's not a good deal. I was sitting at that table, and I remember I had promised these people that they were going to walk away from everything with$10 ,000 or$15 ,000. I don't remember the number, but their house had gone further into foreclosure. Their lawyer was pulling his profits out of that, and so therefore I wasn't going to be able to hold up to my word in that deal. At 23 years old and a challenging time in the building industry, I was just like, no way. I need to do something else with my life.

7:44I'm not ready to make these hard financial decisions in other people's lives. and went and chased bikes around the world. And I really loved it, but I wasn't making a living and I wasn't financially free. I couldn't do the things I wanted to do with my life and my time. And when I came back and took over the construction business, I made more, well, the way I always like to talk to friends about it is I paid more in taxes in that first year than I made ever in the cycling industry. So it was very eye-opening. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What making a living was. And it took two or three years of doing that to realize, man, you know, I can make a living doing something where I find some parts of passion, helping the community, you know, keeping several people in work.

8:30But that doesn't have to be the core passion in life that can actually facilitate it. And it was very eye-opening in my mid-30s to kind of figure that out and feel fortunate because I still work hard. I enjoy what I do, and it's great, but it allows me time and the freedom and the financial flexibility to do those things. And that was really eye-opening because I've grown up my whole life. It was you do something you love, so you never work a day in your life. And it just didn't really end up being the shoe that fit for me. Yeah, I've that that statement you just said, you never do a day of work in your life.

9:09I think that's a load. I've I mean, you can love what you do. I mean, I love what I do. But I promise you it's work. And, you know, but work's not a bad word. Work is, you know, work is fun. And so, you know, I've you know, and I have clients that love to work. And so it's not there's no I don't know where work got to be a bad word. I guess it's where I've come up. So, you know, I've always thought that was a load. You know, they just like what they do. But most of them have other passions as well. And their businesses, if you do it right, your business should give you more to life rather than sucking it out of you.

9:51And so, yeah. So, let's talk. I love the statement, every deal, everyone wins. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I love that because if you, I mean, if, I mean, if it, if it doesn't work, then it's not a, it's not a, it's not a good deal, you know? Yeah, and growing up, you know, I remember sitting across the table from so many people that felt like they had to win, and it was at all costs, you know, and it never, that doesn't work. Because if somebody loses, everybody loses in the sense that, you know, if you screw somebody over to make a few extra bucks here or there, like, it'll never, that always catches up with you.

10:32And if you win a little bit, whoever crossed the table also wins a little bit, everybody walks away, it's an agreeable deal. You're just building a better sense of community. You're being equitable. And I think that was a huge eye-opening thing for me was I saw it done the wrong way a lot. And I got to see it done what I feel like is the right way, that everybody wins philosophy. And I tell you, Bill, that's really served me well through life, business, everything, you know, and sure takes a lot of stress out of my day, too. Yeah, I don't. I mean, the theory that there's that there's got to be winners and losers.

11:17It's just not right. I mean, it's it's it's you know, I mean, there's the what is it? The you know, the win win, you know, from seven habits. I mean, it's not, it's out there if you look for it. There's no, it's, I think it comes from the scarcity mentality. Like there's scarce resources. There's just not, there's abundance. There's plenty for us all. And if that's what abundance means. So yeah, it's great. I love this philosophy. I'm gonna remember this, every deal, everyone wins. Yeah. Yeah, you know, we have, I don't know, In the last 30 plus years of our family business here locally, we've probably built 400, 500 homes.

11:59We've had the same subcontractors for the majority of that time, 10, 15, 20, 30 years. I mean, I've watched people's kids grow up. And we've had those same subcontractors become builders. And I think a lot of builders would see that as competition and a challenge. And it's just not who we are. We want everyone to be successful. And if somebody wants to go from being a plumber to a builder and that's their path, I'm going to help that person out. Our siding guy, he's a general contractor now. He calls me almost every other week asking me questions about this, that, and the other. And I'm like, whatever you need, let's get more good houses out there, more roofs for people to move into in this community.

12:45We certainly need that here in Western North Carolina as much as we do anywhere else in the country. But, you know, a good home and a fair price, it seems to be few and far between here locally. Well, and yeah, I mean, and who's he going to call when he can't do something? Yeah. Right, right. You know, I can't build. I mean, I got too much to do. I can't build this house. You know, can you do it? You know, Todd, can you do it? You know, it's the yeah, it's the deal. Right. And I've gotten more land opportunities and business opportunities from those people than I have from any real estate agent or marketing piece that's out there.

13:26You know, I mean, almost every land deal that has been a win for our business has come from those relationships, a word of mouth. Honestly, the neighbors of wherever we build. When we start a project, I go knock on everyone's door and personally introduce myself, hand them a business card. You know, hey, I'm going to be your neighbor. I know we're disrupting your world for the next six to eight months, but I want to be as good of a neighbor as I can. If anything comes up, call me. Please don't go talk to the subcontractor who doesn't know what's going on. Just call me. We've had huge success in just trying to be good neighbors, do the right thing, help build communities, and leave it better than we found it.

14:07Everyone's got different opinions how that looks down the road, but for the most part, we've been very successful with that. Yeah. I want everyone to pay attention to this strategy. And I call it four doors down. And anybody who's in home services, anybody who does any kind of construction, anybody who does any kind of remodeling, any roofing, you name it, anything like that, you need to use that strategy. And it's a simple strategy. All you have to do is knock doors, four doors in both directions, both sides of the street, let them know what's going on. Tell them you're going to be around. Tell them there might be some, you know, upsets and some vans and a whole bunch of stuff going on around their neighborhood.

14:49And if there's a problem, call me. That's what you say. Call me. You know, call the owner, you know, right there. That is a or, you know, whoever could be the foreman. It doesn't matter who it is. Just call them. You will get more business out of that. I have a roofing contractor that I've worked with for years, and we've gotten more business from that strategy than probably any other strategy. and because everybody wants to know what's going on with their neighbors anyway they're nosy so what are they doing well they're remodeling or they're building you know yeah well they want to know so it's uh that strategy works for everybody i love that you brought that up i love love yeah so yeah it's a great it's a great strategy all right so i want to go back to one thing you said you because because there there are ups and downs in any business there's there's cyclical it's the economy cyclical.

15:39It just is. And so if you study it, you'll find that out. And I would recommend that you do study it. But you said that your family business absorbed four other businesses. And then, but your business, but y 'all's business made it through somehow, through, through, and it was, it was a rough, probably because you were well capitalized anyway. So tell me more about that because that that that's an interesting uh situation yeah you know um so again growing up in that uh small business in the early 2000s you know building was booming and we we had built apartment complexes we'd built houses we had several large land uh acquisitions on the table and then it just felt you know through 2008 everything around the country really started slowing down and we knew someday it was going to come to us.

16:32We just didn't know when. And one day it just stopped. Everything stopped. And, you know, we even recently we've been talking about the slowdown recently has been fine, but just as long as it doesn't stop, that's the problem. But yeah, you know, we had four different partnerships and we always at the dinner table talked about what's our exit strategy, what's our worst case scenario. We had multiple plays no matter what property what deal what partnership we we we had on the go and i don't think our business partners did the same thing it didn't appear to and so those partners you know when when everything stopped that they just kind of they were left with what was left and it wasn't pretty so they all uh did chapter 11 bankruptcy and you know for them that was fine but anything that we were in partnership, we either had to do the same thing or take on all that debt.

17:29I want to say it was something like four or five million dollars worth of debt we just took on in a year. And we were okay capitalized, but we had a lot of assets because in that timeline, we were purchasing rental properties left and right. And I want to say at some point we had like 30 or 40 rental properties. So we were able to make some different sales of properties. We were able to sell a lot of the land that we were kind of held to that were big payments. But really, at the end of the day, it was that same mentality of just taking care of your people and taking care of what's in front of you and not stopping.

18:05I mean, we were building maybe two or three houses a year, almost making no money just to keep our people moving, just to keep the business going, just to be able to kind of flow money and keep our cash flow going. And I'll never forget, But mom one day was like, you know, it was really hard. And one day I remember we had$2 ,500 in the bank account. That was it. That was all we had. We had nothing coming in, you know, no, nothing. And the painter came from a job and he had his invoice in hand and handed his invoice. And that's another big key to our success is as soon as someone's done with their project, you pay them immediately.

18:41No terms, no nothing. They did it. It's their money. And it was$2 ,500. and you know she didn't say no or I can't afford it or anything she wrote that check she basically zeroed out her bank account and you know it was three boys and uh yeah and so then she walked down to the mailbox that day and there was a check from something somebody something for four or five thousand dollars you know it was a credit from something that had been out you know outstanding and and that was it's just kind of like the karma like of taking you know just continuing to take care of people and you'll be okay. And, and, you know, it, the business kept going and we were able to sell that whatever project we're working on and we just kept moving.

19:24And yeah, it really had a huge impact on me. It's like, you know, we're, if you're going on this road and you've got a group of people that you're working with, like you're all in it together and they're just as equally deserving as you are. So, you know, just, you've got to just keep doing the right thing. And yeah, it was really, really impactful. But it took six years of constant hard work, long, hard conversations, adjusting our product, new partnerships. And yeah, we climbed out of it and rerouted our business and is very successful currently. But it taught a lot of lessons about planning, having contingency plans, how you finance projects, when to take on big projects, when to slow the business down.

20:11Yeah, you're 100 % right, Bill. It is very cyclical. There's a lot of indicators out there, but, you know, you just got to be fluid. You got to be willing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're a little, I mean, back then, 2008, 2009, obviously it was a banking crisis, global GFC, global financial crisis. So, and, you know, banks just wouldn't lend you any money. And so that all the money stopped, which is why everything stopped one day for a while until everybody started figuring it out. But then obviously it loosened back up. But it's seven to 10 years. I mean, you can just count on it. Every seven to 10 years, there's a cycle.

20:45It might be a little bit longer, a little bit less, but that's about what it, that's about. Well, you can just go back in history and look at it. It's not hard to see what's, you know, what happens. So you can count on it. We're a little bit in the mountains here where, you know, with the retirement community and people coming into the town and moving and all that we're a little bit buffered from it but it's you know at the end of the day it's it's just absolutely coming and so um and i don't think it'll stop but i love the lessons the lessons are do the right thing you know karma karma karma is a thing let's face that and you know keep going yeah just don't stop just keep doing something you know don't you know i know uh you know during covid i mean it's like all right well keep going you know it actually it was interesting because 2008-2009 disaster for the construction industry 2008 i mean 2020 was actually a boom for yeah it never i never saw that coming i missed that one uh but but it was uh yeah people got home and they're like well need something or i'm you know i can't stay in atlanta i need to i need to get i need to i need to come i need to come home you know i need to or I need to find a place in the mountains.

21:57So yeah, yeah. Pretty interesting. Yeah. A couple of more questions. You know, the EPIC stands, well, the B EPIC stands for, B stands for bring the energy. E is education. P is planning. I is inspiration. C is commitment. So I'd like to get your thoughts on those, those five things. So like, what, what are your thoughts about the energy you need to bring to entrepreneurship or to business? That's a great question. Again, I'm going to go back to lessons I learned from our family business. And one of my favorite mottos that I still live by today is, you know, mom was always like, you know, building a house is like hosting a party.

22:38You make sure everyone has what they need and you make sure they're having a good time and you get out of the way and let them have a great time and get it done. And so the energy that I try to bring 100 % of the time is I'm going to work my tail off to make sure that when somebody shows up on our job site, everything is laid out and straightforward and easy. You know, work's work, but as easy as possible. They have whatever they need to get it done. And we're all having a good time and trying to enjoy it because, well, it's still just life at the end of the day. So that really, you know, I'm up early and I stay up late at night working, just making sure that, you know, everybody has a path for them for the day of work they got.

23:19And let's go have some fun and do it again. I love that. Yeah. I love that. Your mom's a smart lady. I mean, holy cow, that's a very smart saying. I never thought about it that way. Great metaphor. Yeah. Yeah, it's a great metaphor. What about the part education plays? Bill, I feel like I'm a constant learner. I listen to a lot of podcasts specifically because I drive all day, every day, going from job site to job site to job site. I'm ebbing and flowing between the microeconomics, what's going on in Asheville, what's going on in our local building business that's constantly having conversations with our vendors and everyone in our industry, friends, family.

24:06and then I go as far as look at the macroeconomics and look at what's going on in the world and a lot of our timber comes from Canada and steel from China and always just trying to kind of go in and out and just learn as much as I can about what's going on in the world around me. Something big that we're really focusing on right now, we've got some big projects getting ready to come online is what's the world going to look like in a year, two, three years as these products we're delivering coming on the market. And so really looking at like the generation change right now with the baby boomer generation, you know, really holding a lot of revenue and cash and getting near the end of their life cycle.

24:48And then what that's going to do for the millennials and the Gen Xers as those transitions happen over the next 5, 10, 15 years and trying to figure out what that's going to look like. So never stop learning. I mean, it's a huge part of keeping your business relevant and it piggybacks on the planning part. It helps really make better plans. One of my mentors said, hey, if you want to out-earn me, you need to out-learn me. So it's pretty good, right? Pretty good. What are your thoughts on planning? I mean, you're in a business that requires planning and plans. And so, but, you know, and I don't think, I think most people wouldn't build a house without a plan.

25:27It's interesting to me how many people will try to build a business without a plan. So, yeah. Yeah, it's wild. I learned this. My philosophy on planning goes back to in the cycling world, I did a lot. I managed a race team, and we traveled around the world. And so I had a lot of international logistics and different country laws and blah, blah. Anyways, long story short, I would make plans for six months, 12 months, 18 months, and then well into the future. but I'd always live two weeks at a time. It didn't matter what our plan was. Like when, when, when the, you know, the tires hit the road, I would only be really thinking about two weeks out because who knows what the world's going to do?

26:14Who knows how everything's going to come and go at me? Uh, so I'm a huge planner, but I'm also, uh, one of the key life lessons I've had is fluidity in my, my life, you know, go, go two weeks at a time, see what comes at you, make your changes uh see how that affects the long-term plan and then readdress but uh yeah so yeah we're i look i look a lot at plans and i'm a big planner but i also you know live two weeks at a time because who really knows what's going to come your way yeah i've had people say well why should i plan because it's going to change and i'm like yeah it is but you need to have pre-thought a lot of that stuff like what it's like what you were talking about like you guys used to sit around talking about like what happens if what happens that that's a planning you know that's planning and other people weren't planning for the catastrophe you know worst worst case what's best case you know i think i think that's brilliant and inspiration the eyes inspiration so uh what are your thoughts on inspiration uh inspiration it's the calling your business you know i think it's for me a lot of times what what i wake up for and in the building business my the inspiration what you You know, being a small business owner, you can decide to do it today or not do it today.

27:27You know, you don't have to go to work. And so that inspiration is the calling. And it's really important to me. I've counted multiple times, but about 90 people touch a home as you're building a home. And supplying those folks with work and being able to make sure that they can put food on their table at night, that's a huge inspiration to me because that's our community. Those are the people that build up where we live, what we do. And then also, I grew up in Asheville, born and raised here, left for a while, and then came back. And this community is constantly changing. And I feel finally at this point in my life that I want to be a part of the change in a better direction.

28:08So I work a lot in the world of the bureaucracy of Asheville City, Buncombe County. I work a lot with the local developers of the area. and then the folks that do their hands-on stuff and kind of be in a conduit between all these three different main pieces of the world. And really the big driver is the money, the financial side. So you've got a lot of different kind of bubbles that move around. So inspiration is build a better community and take care of the community that you have right in front of you. We take care of our subs well. And we actually started something five years ago. The subs that have been with us for a while, We watch our kids grow up.

28:51Really, like, they tend to live a different life. And we wanted to kind of open their eyes on a different way to live. And so whenever a subcontractor that's been with us forever, their children graduate high school, we start a Roth IRA in their name. We have their parents do it and give them$1 ,000 and usually try to sit down with them and talk about, hey, you know, there's this idea of retirement. and kind of looking out at your future and not just kind of living in the world as it is today. And there's a balance between doing both of those things. And that really just kind of continued to expand our world.