Effective Sales with Guitze Messina

0:02Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of the Epic Entrepreneurs podcast where we are all about helping business owners just like you achieve success. So we don't do fancy smancy. We don't do flashing lights. We don't do a lot of things that a lot of podcasts will do. These are just real stories about real people and their entrepreneurial and business experiences. We go into their wins, their challenges, and their learnings. So we hope you enjoy it. Hey there, welcome to this week's episode of Epic Entrepreneurs, brought to you by Action Coach Growth Partners. I'm your host, Bill Gilliland, and in this podcast, you'll find three things.

0:46You're going to hear real stories from real entrepreneurs that will help you along your entrepreneurial journey. You're also going to get business tips to help you scale up faster, and you're going to get actual coaching to help you get better real world results to be the best entrepreneur you can be. Hey, and if you like the podcast, remember to subscribe. And now, enjoy the show. All right, Bill. Thanks for having me. So my name is Guy Messina and I work at Hardy, which is an association that helps distributors and manufacturers make more money. That's basically what we do. Yeah, well, as entrepreneurs, we all want to make more money.

1:31Absolutely. Yeah, you primarily focus in on any kind of industry that has recurring revenue. So what are some of the top maybe questions or tips that you would have for people that are looking for more recurring revenue? Yeah, so the first thing is to realize that you're actually in a recurrent sales industry. And a lot of people don't even know that. So they copy the wrong practices, the wrong sales practices from other industries. For example, software sales, car sales, life insurance sales. Those are sales that are one in a long time to be able to recur. So those are not the type of businesses that are in our association.

2:19Recurrent sales means that you buy from the same supplier all the time. And now the number one question is, are you in a recurrent sales business? And the number two is, are your customers buying from you or are you selling to them? And that sounds like an easy question, but look at it from the point of view of control. If the phone is ringing for you to attend people and you are in recurrent sales, right? Then you're not selling. the customer is actually buying. And now you depend on them making the decision for you to be chosen by them. And they drive the conversation. You have no control. They say, hey, Bill, I need this.

3:11Do you have it? How much is it? Can I go pick it up? That's basically it. But now what we're trying to show is we need to be in control. We need to be proactive versus being really active. And that's what that question takes you to. So are your customers buying from you or are you really selling to them? If you are making the call, you're in control. And now you can ask the questions because whoever asked the questions, they dominate the conversation. They guide it. And that's what we need to do. Ask the right questions to understand what people buy. Now, I'm going to ask you and everybody that's listening.

3:51Do you like to be sold? bit. Yeah, of course not. Nobody likes to be sold, but everybody likes to buy, right? Everybody likes to buy, right? But the thing is, do we know, that's the question, do we know what our customers buy? It's a great question. Yeah, it's a great question, I think, to really get in. What are they actually buying? Because, I mean, there's an old saying, right? People don't buy a drill, they buy a hole in the wall. That's really what they're buying. So, yeah. So basically what we try to show is that we need to have a system. And a system is always going to be better than let me think what I can do today.

4:31So one of the things about the system is the five key questions, because that will allow you to understand what is it that the customer buys. And one of those is very easy is, hey, Bill, this is Guy with XYZ Company, and I really want to give you personalized service. And for that reason, I just need to understand, what is it that you like about doing business with us? And you shut up. Great question. I like it. It's open-ended. It starts the conversation. It's very good. So is that the first question of the five? I mean, we might as well get into what the five questions are. That's the first question.

5:08But the problem is the bad salespeople would only ask that and then whatever the customer says, I like your pricing. Oh sure. And then they go to the next one. No, no, no. Oh great, Bill. I'm glad that you like our pricing. Besides pricing, is there anything else that you like about doing business with us? And usually the great information comes after the third answer from the customer. So don't settle for the first answer. Go deeper into the questioning. All right. So there's a lesson for everybody. One, ask the question and then dig deep. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. So number two is, hey, Bill, what is it that you like about doing business with the competition?

5:53You don't ask the competition's name. You're never going to defend yourself. So for example, the customer says, you know, I really like the fact that they give me better pricing than you. And you don't say, well, we can do something better, Bill. You know, we can, we can help you. Oh, no, relax. Fine. I'm glad that you're finding good pricing. Besides that, is there something else that you like about doing business with the competition? So you go deeper again, even on that question. All right. Number three is what percentage of everything you buy do you buy from us? And that question is extremely important to open the eyes of the salespeople who want to do prospecting in our industry.

6:40Again, prospecting is needed in other industries, but not in ours, at least at the very beginning. You need to make sure that you're attending all the clients that you already have and you're not serving. And that's what we're finding, that when we do a Pareto analysis, 80 % of our sales come from 20 % of the customers. So we're leaving 80 % of those customers unattended. So if we are actually proactive and we ask to see what they buy, we can see how we can improve to get business from that 80 % that is actually not buying so much. Yeah, there's a lesson two here for everybody that they didn't get that I want to make sure they get this that there is a lot of gold in your database.

7:26If you yeah, there's a lot of gold in your database if you'll just go back and get that low hanging fruit. But it's beautiful because when you get that percentage and Bill says, Hey, I only buy 20 % from you. Now you realize that why am I wasting time doing prospecting when someone doesn't even know me? They don't know what my company does. They don't even have credit with me. And here is Bill that I've been doing business with him for 10 years, and he's only doing 20 % of everything he can do with me. So now I see an opportunity. My job in the call is not to go deeper to see what is it that I can sell to him now.

8:08The important thing is that I must realize that there's 80 % opportunity for me to grow. And my goal should be in further questions with the system to grow 1%, not the 80 % overnight. Just get 1 % more. And then 1 % more, little by little, little by little. Get the low hanging fruit from Bill, your customer, than trying to get everything, right? So that is extremely important. Number four is, Bill, what product are you having a tough time finding lately? And whatever is on your mind, whatever was really hard for you, it's going to come up. Because customers, they only think about us in certain markets.

8:59They segregate their providers. Like we segregate customers, they segregate us. So they think, hey, Bill is the guy that can sell me this, this, and this. But if I want to buy XYZ, I need to go with Joe. I need to go with Louie. And that is a problem. And we can only find that out with other questions further down the road. But we must get that information, at least. what is the top of mind problem that you're having right now? And most of the time, you will be able to solve it for them. Yeah, it's really a nice thing. I mean, even if you don't supply it, but if you can point them in the right direction, from a sales standpoint of view, that's really a brilliant thing to do.

9:54They're going to remember you. Yeah, I don't know how many times over the years, but I run into it with clients and I used to, when I was selling, used to run into it. Like people just didn't even know the full product range or the full service range of everything we did. And so you'd find out from a customer that, hey, they just bought something that you could have provided as part of your package. So that question gets to that problem. them. But not only that, you have to realize that we're talking about companies, distributors carry about 22 ,000 products. What is the probability of any particular customer memorizing 22 ,000?

10:37Yeah, not going to ask, right? Yeah, yeah. At least not in your industry, which is the HVAC industry for those who, I don't think we actually said that. So yeah, it's good. Okay, cool. Yeah, that's a lot. All right, we got one more question. The fifth question. How'd you like to learn from the best? How'd you like to network with the best? How'd you like to be the best? Well, the key to being the best is to hang around with the best and to learn from the best. And we're going to make that possible for you this August in Asheville at the Asheville Business Summit. I want you to stay tuned. We're bringing in speakers from outside.

11:15We've got a lot of good events planned. It's going to be amazing. We got more information coming, but if you'd like more info on how you can be involved, how you can attend, or how you can be a sponsor for this event, it's going to be over 350 entrepreneurs in one place right here in Western North Carolina in Asheville. For more info or to be a sponsor, I want you to reach out directly to Beth Limmel, that's L-E-M-M-E-L, at actioncoach.com. That's Beth Limmel at actioncoach.com. We look forward to seeing you there. It's going to be amazing. The S1, it's a question that makes customers realize that we're in a partnership, that we want to help you grow.

12:00So the question is, hey, Bill, what particular niche in the HVAC market you've been wanting to get into, but you've not been able to? So we can see how we can help you penetrate that market. And as a distributor, most likely we serve customers in every little niche that there is. So if we learn that Bill wants to penetrate the commercial market because he is saturated in the residential market, now I know about it and I can see if there is training that I can provide to Bill, if there's other contractors that would like to work with Bill to get a bit of that pie installed. And that is a way that you're going to see me in a different light from everybody else.

12:57Because, hey, he doesn't just want to sell me a product. He wants to help me grow. And that is why that question is important. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think they all lead to the fundamental question that all salespeople should be asking is, how can I help? Absolutely. I mean, that's really what it gets down to. What do you need and how can I help you? And that, even if I'm not the right person, I think in sales, we have to play the long game. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. And it goes with the corollary of what we just said. nobody likes to be sold, but everybody loves to buy. So the corollary is don't sell anything.

13:40Find out what is it that they want to buy and help them get it. Yeah. And questions are the weapon, I guess, or the tool, there might be a better analogy, of choice to find out how we can help. And it also builds that know, like, and trust. I mean, if you can prove that you're there to help and not just, I mean, obviously, everybody wants to make another buck, but you're not there just for that, then I think that goes a long way. You know that the buck will come if you help. Yeah, exactly. If you help, the buck will come. Yeah, I like it. That's the old Zig Ziglar thing, right? If you help enough people get what they want, you'll get what you want.

14:34I like the way you said it. If you help enough, the bunt will come. That's a good title. So what other lessons, you've been in business for a while, what other lessons have you learned along the way that you believe would be useful to entrepreneurs and other people in business out there? Yep, absolutely. So I tried to put everything in the book. And that's the beautiful thing about writing a book. You want to make sure it's in an orderly fashion so everybody can understand. Just to help everybody, what's the title of the book? Money Call. And it's available on Amazon. Money Call on Amazon. We'll put it in the show notes, everybody.

15:20But you can just go out, search Money Call, and it'll show up. I like it. Yep, great. And what I would like people to understand, and this is going back to the system. So already we got the five questions so we understand what people buy. But then you need to be able to have a system in order to get the day-to-day needs of the client. And the first thing we need to understand is what is the number one most important thing that any salesperson can do? And this is going back to the Pareto analysis, but now on your time, because this is the only thing that we have as salespeople, time. So what is the number one thing that you need to put your time to?

16:12And that is contact with your customer. If you visit your customer, then the amount of visits. If you call your customer, the amount of calls that you make, because the calls that you receive, you're not in control. The calls that you make, you have time to prepare, you have times to analyze, and now you can make a call and talk to Bill about the things that are going to be important to understand so you can help. So first thing is, KPI number one that you need to measure is, how many calls do we make? Yeah. Do you think it's, let me ask you a question about that. I mean, there's certain theories on that and I'm with you.

16:54I think you get up every morning. First thing, you make the calls. You know, that's how you sell. What's your thoughts on, you know, I've looked at it. Some people have come up with that. We need to spend X amount of time with somebody in addition to X number of calls. So to finally, you know, cement that relationship. Have you got thoughts on the amount of time that it takes to submit a relationship? Or is it just a number of calls? So remember, recurrent sales means I'm going to be calling you every month at least. Yep. So that is part of building that relationship. If there is a relationship sales, it's in our industry.

17:35So any distribution, if you're in distribution, most likely you will be in recurrent sales. It doesn't matter if it's HVAC, it's electrical, whatever it is, distribution is recurrent sales. So you're going to be calling all the time. So the number one thing is you make 20 calls per day at least. Now, let me explain. You cannot have more than 100 customers. If you have more than 100 customers to call, you have too many. You're not going to be able to serve them well, and you're going to be receiving so many calls that you are not going to be proactive. You will be reactive. So that's a lot of the science behind what we found due to statistics.

18:22You know, we have a bunch of members and we've analyzed how many calls does someone need to make and how many clients do they need to serve? So if you're calling, you need to have 100 clients or less. If you're visiting clients, if you are going to their place of work, then you cannot have more than 30 clients. You're not going to have enough time to see them at least once a month if you have more than 30, especially if you're in a big metropolitan area. Right. Yeah. So 30, that's a good lesson. I mean, if you're going to be proactively keeping in touch with your client base, 100 if you're calling, if you're on the telephone, 30 if you actually are seeing them in person mostly.

19:12That's an interesting number. And that seems, you know, from being an old sales guy myself, that seems low. But I get it. It makes sense. That's the only way you can service actual things. So the 30 better be really good clients. Right. Right, because that's the way it takes your time for you to visit them. Otherwise, you leave them for the call people. Yeah, got it. If they don't buy$50 ,000,$60 ,000 a year, you leave it for the call guys, okay? Got it, yeah. So now, what do you do in these calls? So the first thing is you need to analyze. And now CRMs with AI are fantastic. That's why the last chapter of the book, it's all about how technology is helping salespeople.

19:57That's brilliant. Instead of Bill going and saying, okay, so I'm going to call Guy. Let me see what Guy has purchased in the last six months. And you see that you buy mini splits every month. But the last month and a half, you haven't purchased any from me. So I'm going to call Bill and say, hey, Bill, this is Guy. How are you doing? All good. Okay, great. You know, I said that I wanted to give you personalized service. And I noticed that you normally buy mini splits from us every month, but it's been a month and a half and you haven't purchased any. Is there any reason for that? You're not selling anything.

20:36You just want to get information. This is my definition of sales. Don't sell anything. Get information. And if you ask that question, that's what you're going to get. Information that will allow you to help him buy. Now he will say, I forgot. I got it cheaper somewhere else. I don't like your brand anymore. You don't give me the right training. Whatever it is, it gives you information so you can fix it instead of letting him go with the competition. Does that make sense? Yep. So the other question would be, I make the same analysis and I see that Bill does buy every month and he just purchased from me five days ago.

21:19And he just called someone and he got the order, got it delivered or he ordered on the internet, whatever it is. And I think, man, he buys every month, but he buys the mini splits, but he doesn't buy the insulation that goes with it. So I go, hey, Bill, I'm really happy that you keep buying from us and you like our brand. And every month I see your orders, I'm really happy that I saw the one that you just placed five days ago. but I realized that you never buy insulation from us. Is there any reason for that? And you just shut up and wait for the answer. Now, it's got to be a logical thing. You're not going to say that if somebody buys car wax every month from you, you're not going to suggest that they buy a rocket to go to China, right?

22:08You want to suggest something that makes sense. Hey, I see that you buy car wax every month from us. How come you don't buy any tar shine? Is there any reason for that? Got it. So it makes sense that if he's buying car wash, there's something to shine the tires that he should buy. So it's the same thing. Again, those two questions is what you're going to be asking in every visit. But in order for you to do that, you need to make an analysis. And now the new CRM is coming out with AI. My God, you say, hey, I want to see what Bill hasn't bought for me in the last six months. and it comes out and you just ask in a regular language.

22:47Fantastic. That's what we need to do. It's pretty cool. It's pretty cool. Hey, one last question here. And we may need to have a second one. We got a lot. There's a lot. There's a lot in here. What do you wish someone had told you that they didn't along the way? Oh, man. I learned the hard way that selling is not convincing. And I would say that if you're hiring salespeople, you need to ask this question. What is your definition of sales? And if anybody says it's convincing people, it's shoving stuff up their nose, it's pushing product, whatever has to do with forcing the situation, you're in front of the wrong kind of salesperson.

23:41it's going to take you a lot of effort to convince them otherwise that they need to change. And I would say that that was enlightening for me when I found out that selling is not convincing, that selling is just getting information. Yeah, I love it. Getting information that people buy. And that is my definition. You've probably never seen that anywhere. I've heard similar. I'm going to, yeah, so I've got two big BFOs. We call them blinding flashes, the obvious, or learnings here from this. Two notes. One is don't sell anything, get info, which is what you were just talking about. And the other is if you help enough, the money will come.

24:24And so they're both things that I've known a long time, but, you know, great reminders. And if you haven't heard them before, then it's a wake-up call to change your ways out there. change change your ways and they're tied with each other yeah yeah it's great get information instead of trying to push things just help with that information just help just help and the money will show up I love it so this has been great thanks for being on G it's great been great I really appreciate it Bill talk to you soon that's great and until next time all the best hey thanks for listening to the Epic Entrepreneurs Podcast here's three things that you can do Number one, remember to subscribe to the podcast.

25:08It takes very little effort on your part. It's going to help you and your fellow entrepreneurs. Plus, you guys know how it works. The more subscribers we get, the more cool things we can offer to you. Second, to learn more about growing your business, just download my book, The Coach Approach. It's free for you at giftfrombill.com. That's giftfrombill.com. Hey, and if you'd like more info about growing your business and what we can do to help you grow your business, send me an email directly. Just send it to williamgilliland at actioncoach.com. That's my personal email that I read. No one else reads it first.

25:49It's not screened. It's my real email. Just send it to me. I can't wait to talk to you. Hey, and until then, all the best. hey thanks for listening to the epic entrepreneurs podcast here's three things that you can do number one remember to subscribe to the podcast it takes very little effort on your part it's going to help you and your fellow entrepreneurs plus you you guys know how it works the more subscribers we get, the more cool things we can offer to you. Second, to learn more about growing your business, just download my book, The Coach Approach. It's free for you at giftfrombill.com. That's giftfrombill.com.

26:37Hey, and if you'd like more info about growing your business and what we can do to help you grow your business, send me an email directly. Just send it to williamgilliland at actioncoach.com. That's my personal email that I read. No one else reads it first. It's not screened. It's my real email. Just send it to me. I can't wait to talk to you. Hey, and until then, all the best.