From Second-Generation Electrician to Strategic Partner: How Thomas Fleming Builds Trust, Talent, and Cash Flow Resilience

0:02Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of the Epic Entrepreneurs podcast where we are all about helping business owners just like you achieve success. So we don't do fancy smancy. We don't do flashing lights. We don't do a lot of things that a lot of podcasts will do. These are just real stories about real people and their entrepreneurial and business experiences. We go into their wins, their challenges, and their learnings. So we hope you enjoy it.

0:36hey there welcome to this week's episode of epic entrepreneurs i am bill gillilland your host i am the principal of action coach business growth partners and one of the founders of the ashville business summit i am super pumped today i've got a i've got a really cool guest he's he's joined the action coach community uh we got thomas fleming from strategic electrical solutions so So, Thomas, tell us who you are and a little bit about yourself and your company and, you know, how you serve the community. So, again, Thomas Fleming, and I'm the president and owner of Strategic Electrical Solutions.

1:13I've been in this industry for close to 30 years now. So, second generation of electrical contractor. I've spent a lot of time in the field, spent a lot of time educating myself along with others. we've kind of taken this on as about well we're in year three now so we're at that hump as everybody would say it's make or break time just really serving our customers with exceptional service and the best value that the market's going to let us allow right now to do everything just um focusing a lot on our trying to help our customers in not just their needs but also the education of what is actually behind the scenes in their electrical system is something they use every day without even knowing yeah so so thomas i want to dig into that a little bit you said your second generation you've been in this 30 years and then you said three years tell us a little bit about that so my my father was licensed i believe i saw his in 1980 ish i know he was in business in the 80s um so i was young wanted to go with him spend a lot of time with him out in the field loved doing it loved the aspect of harnessing something that nobody can see but you can definitely feel it whenever it's uh not done properly um and really just took took to that um the i don't know what it is don't know why some days i'm going why did i do this but other days you know i actually enjoy i i enjoy what i do and and it helps me every day to keep pushing through um him and i were in business i tell everybody three weeks before prior if anybody remembers 2008 what happened in and we survived through about 2013 when i had a um offer come along that i just couldn't turn down so he was at the age of retirement and we kind of parted ways let him do what he wanted to with it went on later on with various companies grew from uh you know foreman to superintendent project manager estimator to pretty much running everything with it and got laid off about a little after 2020 when everything happened on in that session and year and said, well, I might as well try it again.

4:02So I went back and got my license after all those years, opened our doors, and here we are today just trying to hunt the lawn. Perfect. Perfect. I love it. I love it. It's a great background. So who do you serve? We're North Carolina Unlimited License for the state of North Carolina. Our real area that we focus on is the Piedmont Triad. We're based out of Winston-Salem. So Winston-Salem, Greensboro, High Point, surrounding area, Stokes County, Yadkin County, Davie is a big one. Iredell, we've done some work in. We've even traveled as far as Raleigh, Durham, and Lenore. So that kind of gives you a big wide advance of what our coverage is and the people who find us who want us to do the work.

4:58So are you mostly residential? Are you doing commercial or both? We do a little bit of both. My background is primarily in commercial. And as much as I love it, there are times that the commercial does do some issues with our cash flow. um we're all the guys that i have worked for me they basically have a background in commercial so we try to stick a lot with that however now that we're um with the way the market and everything is and we just got to be multifaceted we're looking for uh good custom to semi-custom home builders. Gideon helped them to actually, yes, they have a great design team on the finishes and counters and everything else.

5:52Our expertise can come in, helping with the lighting design, help to actually make some of that pop whenever we're looking at those design considerations they pick out um smart homes uh access control alternatives uh security not so much as far as the burglar alarm but cctv or premise videos so that you know everything is attached to that customer so they they can monitor what's going on in their house yeah no i got it i got it well let me ask you some business questions i think we got the idea i mean basically you're like an electrical you're just an electrical subcontractor in a way we're a contractor we do a lot with general contractors but a lot of service calls with homeowners and upgrades so yeah we work with everybody so you do both you got service and subcontracting yes absolutely if it's electrical you can do it I love it so let me ask you something I mean, if you had to start over again, what would you do differently?

7:06Oh, I would probably have a little bit more money in the bank to make sure that we have everything together. A little bit more cushion on the entrepreneurial end of where we are in cash flow crunches at times. And sometimes that does affect everything. um really doing anything else over again i don't even think i would open my company up any sooner than what i have just because of the knowledge that i acquired over um throughout the years another fun fact is i'm actually instruct an instructor at the community college here and i have some of my students ask well what about my license what about my license and And the answer to that is, yes, the license exam is difficult, but that's actually the easiest part of the business in itself is having that license.

8:10Without the business knowledge, without knowing how business operates and cash flows and making sure that you have everything there. I've seen a lot of people who have gotten their license, opened up a company, and failed within a few years just because of the business aspect. So probably one thing I'd do different would be get a little bit more business-minded courses behind me and take it in that realm. Yeah, got it. No, I like it. Yeah, got to get the knowledge. Got to get the learning before you can do the earning. So, yeah, it's good. So speaking of that, what have been some of your bigger learnings as an owner and an employer?

8:57Oh, what payroll actually cost and involve. Man, that is a fun topic. Workman's comp and understanding how all that's billed, how all that does affect all the bottom line. Just the taxes, keeping up with everything. just making sure that all of those items that uncle sam in the state want to make sure that you have uh making sure those considerations are made so you know outside of of what our pricing is for a project making sure that we we have enough in there you know again it is a business and I tell people that I should file as a nonprofit sometimes, but it is a business and it is a delicate act of, you know, what do we charge as a business and what should us as the entrepreneur, owner, and the qualified person, what should we actually, we don't want to disconnect with our customers.

10:10of the customer going, wow, this is an astronomically high price for a service where, again, we are providing a service and we are doing exceptional quality to make sure that in the end, we are protecting the lives and property of those individuals. Yeah. A lot of people don't actually understand what all has to go into it. I mean, I don't even think they understand the licensing. I mean, you guys, you got to have a lot of hours of experience before you. I mean, you can take the exam, but you can't get your license until you've put in the hours. That's it. It is 7 ,000 hours for the state of North Carolina.

10:49Other states have 10 ,000 hours on the job. And honestly, there's still a lot of people out there who they cannot pass the test on the first, second, or even third attempt at times. Yeah. Well, I mean, 7 ,000 hours, you can do the math. I mean, that's over three years. It's about four years is what. yeah about what it averaged i mean the average the average thing is you know on a 40-hour week it's 2080 a year so you know that's that's you got to have you got to have 7 000 you got to work four hours that's a tough profession to get licensed in it is and the the exam and the math and everything else we have to go through and it is it is a daunting exam um kind of one of the reasons why it took me so long.

11:37I was honestly, I was scared of it. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's certainly that can be done. It's just a matter of, uh, of, you know, putting yourself into it, but you know, you got to want it if you, if you, if you really want it, you got to do it. So, and then, and then the business side of it that you talked about, I love that. So, uh, what are you, what are some common misconceptions about running a business? Uh, that, that us as the owner has has it made um the biggest thing and and i again i go back to educating my customers with especially some of the my service customers you know our bill rate is is kind of in line with with a lot of the others you know it's it's anywhere between 130 to 150 an hour well when And when we talk about that, you kind of think, wow, you're making$130 to$150 an hour.

12:36Well, not exactly. I've got to pay my employees, whoever going out to there, they're going to make a good living because part of this is that employee-employer relationship. They're relying on me to make sure that they have what they need. I can't underpay them. So, you know, when we look at$30,$40 an hour for a technician to go out, take that off the top, you know, now we're at$100. Government's going to get their cut of it at 30%. So out of that$100, we're going to have another, you know,$30 or more out of there with that cut. So now, you know, each one of these steps is kind of dwindling us down.

13:22So, you know, at the end of the day, it's, I look at a lot of these companies now who, especially some of the, the ones who have gone to these price books in this flat rate pricing. And I look at those and I'm going, yes, they're out there to make money and they're making good money at it. but at what expense to who, you know, is the customer doesn't understand what all going on and what all it costs. We do on there, but at the same time, again, it comes back to my biggest balancing act is what can, what can I do for a customer to make sure that they're taken care of and not break their bank also.

14:08And it all comes back to the full circle of what we're talking about is, Because what an hourly rate actually includes in it, there is not really a whole lot, us, for the ones who are bearing the burden of the insurance, the workman's comp, worrying every night of what could go wrong or what will go wrong to really make sure that at the end of the day that we're providing for our family also. Yeah, well, you didn't even talk about taxes. You didn't even talk about overheads. You didn't talk about insurance. You didn't talk about rent. You didn't talk about, you know, trucks aren't free. Vans aren't free.

14:54You know, you got those payments. You got, you know, so actually when you sit down and think, it's interesting to me. Whoa, that's high. They don't know what, you know, it's not. I mean, what's right is it's got to be a win-win. It's got to be fair for the customer and fair for you and fair for your team. Exactly. So it's got to be, yeah. So what do you attribute your growth to? Networking. So we really do not rely a lot heavily on marketing to the masses, such as, you know, Google, Facebook, any of those advertising overhead expenses that we were just talking about. Our growth has really become from the networks that we're involved in.

15:39So with the chamber, other networking groups that we're members of, and just where we have educated those people inside of those groups, and they understand that we are actually here to not just perform a task, but to also educate and make sure that those things, at the end of the day, that those other customers of customers are really taken care of. That's what most of our growth has come from. We've met a lot of general contractors and other subcontractors throughout this, and we work hand-in-hand together. They have something come up. They give us a call. We have something with a customer. We're passing those back and forth to each other and going, going, hey, this is a trusted source.

16:39So we've really become that trustworthy person in our realm. And then what little bit does, we do have the web presence and everything else. You know, we have contractors that are Indiana, Ohio, other places that, you know, they want us to bid on jobs. and we've been very successful with them to be able to perform their tasks whenever they're coming into town. I love that. We're trying to keep, again, for the customer, keep the overhead expense down for the advertisement, but we've got to keep things rolling too. Yeah, got to make it. So how do you balance personal life with the demands of running a business?

17:25Ask my wife, and she's going to say probably not very well. um ask me i'm gonna say i am over stressed most of the time trying to get things done again the the biggest the biggest thing that's really come around is this uh role of the educator also at community college so four days a week we're i'm teaching at night so it's running a business uh you know eight to five teaching from five to eight getting home seeing the kids to everything else, we keep going just for that reason. I look at the future of the company, and I've got two kids that may or may not, do not know yet, eight and five years old, do not know whether they're going to take it or not, but that's part of the contingency and plan of it.

18:20If they want it, great. They're going to have to work for it. Um, if not, then, you know, how do we, how do we do succession plan in the company to make sure that the name, you know, here again, when I'm building a brand, um, and wanting to be a leader in, in this, in this field and trade. So, you know, succession plans of that. How do we balance it? Well, you know, we're the dedication that we're putting to our customers and trying to make sure that, yes, they realize life happens at times and we're not always there, able to be there within 24, 48, even two to three weeks later. You know, that's all what it is.

19:10We're trying to be as transparent as we can to what's going on in our lives so that that way they can play in around theirs. Right. I love it. I love building a brand. And you've got, I mean, the business is going to be sold one way or the other, whether it's sold to family or sold outside the business. Either way, the path to build the business is the same. So that's pretty exciting that you're already thinking about that. Most people don't think that far ahead. So well done on that. So what qualities do you look for in employees? Dedication, that they want to show up. Everybody says it has the same thing.

19:49I can't get people to show up. Well, how do we fix that? One of the ways is we've got to make it worth their while to show up. So it may not always be the highest pay, but we've got to offer them something you know flexibility i've got problems that come up you know life happens again i need to take my kids to the doctor my mother has whatever issue you know i i as a person and especially being the principal of i'm very understanding with that take care of what you need to, you know, yes, we're, we have a job to do, but same time, um, my philosophy is, you know, I'm not trying to live to work.

20:38I am trying to work to live a little bit. So, you know, I want flexibility myself. One of the reasons why I became an entrepreneur, if I, if the kids need to go to the doctor, I need to pick them up early. My wife's not able to, You know, we have that's that flexibility. I think a lot of employers have gotten away from that, that, you know, the employees are people, too. And without those employees, they really are nothing. I see that a lot, which is why I strive for not just to hire a body, but hire the right ones that they go out and do what they need to do. They have the flexibility of doing what they need to do.

21:21And we all work together as a team with it. Some of the other aspects that I'm seeing with it is just the training that some of the skill set trainings and the knowledge that even some of the so-called foremen, I will call them, or technicians who have been in the field for five, six years or more, some just still don't have the full skill set of finding a problem. I run a lot of service calls because I've seen a lot of it and I can process. I have a way that I process a service call. And instead of just going to the leaps and bounds of, I can't find it, let's just tear it all out, replace it, do it all this way.

22:16My biggest thing is we're trying to repair. We're trying to make sure that everything is safe as a repair and not just a replacement. um so you know just understanding the concepts and logic especially in the electrical realm of what does it take because again uh one of the biggest sayings is a plumber knows where his problem's at it makes a big mess on the floor we don't know where our problem is at we have to be able to to actually see it smell it harness it find it touch it whichever to to know where our problem truly is. And I think that makes a lot of us stand out. And a lot of people just don't have that anymore.

23:00Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I love that. So what words of advice would you offer other business owners who are looking to grow? Find your niche. Find your niche in not just so much one realm, but find a niche in what your service really is. You know, you've got to look at yourself of while business itself should not be a hobby. There are a lot of people who were especially smaller businesses that act like a hobby. um you know if you're going to grow you need to have those proper things in mind of how do you grow um explosion is nice but it also creates a lot of different headaches on the back end of if we have a lot of jobs going on well we've got to get vehicles we need to get people We need to get everything in place and in order.

24:05We've got to have our suppliers who are giving us competitive prices so that we can compete in prices with the bigger box stores from their shelf. You really just need to sit down, and it may not be a plan on paper, and it's like I tell Jason a lot. I'm the principal of it. Everything I have is up here. It's my job to get this out on the paper so that you can help understand what's going through my mindset. But you've got to have a plan somewhere, whether it is growth, succession. How am I going to make sure that things are taken care of? How am I going to make sure that even in slow times, because there will be slow times, you know, but making sure that cash flow was still there so that you can still live also and not become one of the statistics.

25:01Yeah, I love it. So what's the next big thing for strategic electoral solutions? Again, we hit our three-year mark, so the biggest thing that we're having on the horizon now is now that I have gotten in my head that this is a viable plan and and it will continue to grow and does grow every day is is now just trying to find more partners to work with um and it's it's not just any partner will do we are looking for the the right people to work with who want to who have the same kind of thoughts that we do. We're trying to serve a customer. We want them to be able to serve a customer. We want to work hand in hand with them in a relationship with their customers, whether it is design, what's coming out, what's new on the horizon, what can we do to future proof and make sure that, especially in the residential realm of everything, there's so many changes that have happened in the past 10 years, that what can we do to make sure that those customers have everything that they may need going forward that they're not having to do an upgrade or expansions or anything else in the next three to five years while they're still trying to pay off their investments on that.

26:34So that's what we're really looking and gearing towards is we're trying to become, pardon the pun, we're becoming strategic partners with others who are trying to serve their customers to the best of their ability also. Yeah, I love it. I love it. Strategic partners. Well, that's a good name then. It was kind of how it all came around. Oh, really? It was about a month and a half long debate of what name do we call it. You know, do we call it Fleming and Sons? Do we call it Fleming Electrical? Uh, go back with when my father and I were in business, he called it Wayne Fleming Electric Company. And one of the first things I looked at him is I said, well, when you retire, what does that do for me?

27:24Because my name's not Wayne. So, so it, it really became something I did not want the company named after me, but it's at least still has what our goals and, and what we're looking to do. We're strategic partners. We come in and we're, we're doing a strategy whenever we're looking at your project, whether it is new construction, existing construction service, you know, there's all a strategy involved of how do we approach the problem in front of us? So, you know, simple troubleshooting. No, I love it. Yeah, I like it. There is a strategy. I like it. Yeah, and then the solutions. We're finding a solution to your problems.

28:16So it really all became put together in all that once we go, what's our ultimate goal that we're trying to do? So what better way to name a company, I guess. No, I think it's a very good name. I think one of the worst things you can do is name your company after yourself because no one actually cares. It's like a waste of a word almost. No one actually cares except maybe your mother and your family if it had been named like Thomas Electrical Solutions. But Strategic Electrical Solutions is a great name. It's a great name. So how does somebody get a hold of you? If they want to get in touch, how do they do it?

28:58Well, the biggest thing is, and I'll tell people, please text me.

29:07everything comes to my phone which is a blessing and a curse you can text me 336-312-4199 that's the best way because with all the spam calls and everything else go to voicemail leave me a message if you do want to call I will get back with you email us right now it's Thomas us at sesolutionsonline.com. You can visit our website, and I believe that we should have some of that active that you can get a hold of us there, sesolutionsonline.com. You know, find us on there and let us know what your problem is. Let us know what you're thinking or doing, and, you know, we'll work you in the schedule the best we can and make sure that you have all the options and knowledge to go with it.

30:03Yeah, that's awesome. Hey, thanks. Yeah, I really appreciate it. That's a fantastic interview. Thank you for being part of this community. Appreciate all you're doing out in the world. And, you know, we're going to blow this thing up. I know you're going to be continued growth and success. So really appreciate you being part of this. We're going to give it the best shot we can. Thank you, Bill. Hey, and until next time, all the best. Hey, thanks for listening to the Epic Entrepreneurs Podcast. Here's three things that you can do. Number one, remember to subscribe to the podcast. It takes very little effort on your part.

30:43It's going to help you and your fellow entrepreneurs. Plus, you guys know how it works. The more subscribers we get, the more cool things we can offer to you. Second, to learn more about growing your business, just download my book, The Coach Approach. It's free for you at giftfrombill.com. That's giftfrombill.com. Hey, and if you'd like more info about growing your business and what we can do to help you grow your business, send me an email directly. Just send it to williamgilliland at actioncoach.com. That's my personal email that I read. No one else reads it first. It's not screened. It's my real email.

31:31Just send it to me. I can't wait to talk to you. Hey, and until then, all the best.