Grow People First, Then Profit Follows, with Ryan Ducker

0:02Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of the Epic Entrepreneurs podcast where we are all about helping business owners just like you achieve success. So we don't do fancy smancy. We don't do flashing lights. We don't do a lot of things that a lot of podcasts will do. These are just real stories about real people and their entrepreneurial and business experiences. We go into their wins, their challenges, and their learnings. So we hope you enjoy it.

0:36All right. So welcome to this week's episode of Epic Entrepreneurs. My name is Cliff McRae. I'm filling in for Bill Gilliland with your local business training and coaching firm, Action Coat Business Growth Partners. I'm excited to have Mr. Ryan Ducker with Duckerland Management on as the focus for our Epic Entrepreneurs podcast today. So, Ryan, please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about yourself and your company and what primary products or services you offer the community. Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate this opportunity. My name is Ryan Ducker. I'm the CEO of Ducker Land Management.

1:11We're based out of Hendersonville, North Carolina. We service all of Western North Carolina. um we uh basically try to make everyone's outdoor dreams a reality um one uh we also uh repair and rebuild uh western north carolina post helene so we do a lot of uh you know complete slope repairs uh landslides we build a lot of retaining walls uh we do a lot of concrete work. And then when it comes to outdoor living, we do brick pavers, patios, you know, flagstone, custom concrete, like exposed concrete, you know, boulder walls, anything that someone has a dream of doing outside on their land or their property, we try to make it happen for them.

2:04We generally work in areas that are hard and tough to get to. It is mountainous where we work here in the Appalachian Mountains. I grew up here. I grew up in Mills River. So myself and our entire team, most everybody is familiar with mountainous properties. And we're willing to attack those hard-to-get-to areas and really try to make some beautiful creations for some outdoor living for a lot of our clients. Perfect. Perfect. Yeah, that's awesome. All right. So, yeah, if you had to start your business from square one tomorrow, let's just say, hypothetically, you had to start from square one in your business tomorrow or tomorrow, what would you do differently?

2:51If I had to start it all over again tomorrow, man, there would be a lot of things I probably would do differently. I probably would be a little more patient in some areas. I think I would focus more on hiring the correct team members. There are three main characteristics that we look for when hiring team members, employees, and that is that they are hungry, they're humble, and smart. We're looking for someone who is hungry, who wants to have a good job, wants to have a good career. They want to progress in life, not just financially, but, you know, spiritually with their craft or with their skill.

3:50They're hungry to grow in all areas, be a better husband, be a better father. Those are the people we're looking for that are hungry. We also want them to be humble. We don't want somebody to be a pushover, but we also want them to be, we definitely want them to be humble. They need to be able to take correction. They need to be able to be willing to learn. And then also we're looking for someone who's smart. I'm not talking about street smart, or I mean, excuse me, book smarts. We're looking for someone with street smarts. someone who can handle our day-to-day operations and be smart enough to make educated guesses or educated decisions.

4:33Also, someone who's smart enough to know if they don't know the answer to ask questions. So we're looking for those three qualities. So I would say for sure, if I had to do it over again, I would focus more on getting the right people in the right place. I would focus more on making sure there's clear job descriptions, clear expectations, and hire specifically for those positions based on the hungry, humble, smart plan. So I would definitely do that different, and I would take my time to hire the right people. um um i would uh definitely financially on the financial end i would have i would try if i had to do it again i would try to be as smart as i possibly could with the finances um you know uh try to not overextend the finances um uh i would try to um invest you know something that's more logical.

5:40Um, I went to my, when I first started 25 years ago, you know, um, you know, as young, you know, dumb to the fact of, you know, Hey, you go out and get a bunch of brand new equipment and you got to pay a bunch of payments. Sometimes it's really hard to outrun those payments, um, based on, um, based on your revenue generation. And, um, I probably would have read more uh i probably would have took taken my time on that aspect um uh but uh i think if i would have done that i would have been further along than i am today for sure um and and the big thing is is teamwork is creating a team that is just um that is next to none the the best um I would have strived to have had a great team.

6:33The team that we have now, I would have strived to have had that when I was younger because everything rises and falls on leadership. And if your leadership in your company is not hungry, humble, and smart, does not fit your culture, they don't reflect who you are as a person. if you don't focus on that then you're you're you're doomed for failure and you're doomed for for a lot of heartaches and headaches and financial turmoil for sure yeah but those two things i would definitely would have done okay okay yeah no i love it love it that's a great answer uh what have your biggest learnings been as an owner and employer since you started your business?

7:23You know, I can't say enough about, about, um, culture. Um, you know, the culture of your business, uh, is pretty much one of the biggest building blocks for a successful business. Um, number one, you know, um, for me is to be, um, is, is to have our teammates, my team reflect what I feel inside, what my passion, my mission, my vision, my values for the company. I want to see them reflect that and, and, and, and hold each other to, and would definitely hold each other to a high standard. I want to hold ourselves to an extremely high standard in today's economy. That will definitely get you ahead.

8:20And, you know, focusing on your team and focusing on the people in your team, you know, that's everything. For sure, that's a major focal point. More than revenue generation, You can go out and get all the work in the world. You can be a great salesman and you can sign some contracts. And people may like you as the estimator or the salesman. But when it comes to actually landing the job and then you introduce the people that you're working for, you introduce them to your team. And if your team doesn't match who you are and doesn't, and your culture is just, is, is, is terrible and nobody wants to work together.

9:07You know, there's sabotage, there's gossip, there's anger, there's deceit and all those things, you know, when there's all that, then people really start raising an eyebrow. And then they're like, you know, I don't know if I trust this person. I trust the guy that sold me the job, but this team just doesn't really match. So having a culture that has a clear mission, clear vision, clear values, that's very, very important. It's important for us, and I'll label that as one of our biggest successful marks for us today. It's taken a long time to get to this point, and a lot of failures, tons of failures.

9:51I've made all kinds of mistakes. You know, I paid for my education, you know. It cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, but it wasn't from a college. It was from lots of mistakes. So, you know, and trying to apply, you know. And, you know, Arnold Palmer said, and when he was interviewed in a Golf Digest magazine one time, He said, the interviewer asked him, he said, what makes you a great golfer? What makes a great golfer? Not a good golfer, but a great golfer. And he said this. He said, it's not how well you hit your good shots. It's how well you recover from your bad shots. That's what makes a great golfer.

10:38And I think that goes hand in hand with business. I think if you're going to be successful in business, it's how strong are you going to be and how are you going to recover from your mistakes? I'm a group called C12. It's Christ-based. It's a Christian-based organization. It's a group with a lot of other business owners and CEOs in Western North Carolina. and we talk about having a buffalo culture and that basically means we should lead like a buffalo. I don't know if you know much about buffalo. Not many people do. But buffalo, when there's a storm that comes out, they don't run away from the storm.

11:29They run to the storm as a herd and they protect themselves inside the eye of the storm. They're not afraid. They're not a fearful animal. And so, you know, we try to reflect that same culture in duck or land management is to build lead like buffalo. We don't want to run away from the problems. We don't want to make one problem worse by a terrible culture. We want to run into the storm and face it head on and handle it right when it happens. and not push, you know, like, you know, some of my other mistakes now that I'm thinking about all the many I've made was the question prior was, you know, one of my biggest mistakes was if there was a problem I knew that was coming or could see that there was an issue, I would put it off and then, you know, think like, well, maybe it'll correct itself.

12:22Well, that is stupid, a stupid way of thinking. And I had to learn that the hard way. When you have an issue arise in your business, especially for us, I handle it immediately. I mean immediately. The people that are involved in the situation, get them in a room, get them together, sit down at a table, sit down in a car, and handle that situation absolutely as fast as you can. Don't let that situation fester because it will only get worse. I hope I answered the question. No, no, that was great. I kind of chase some rabbits sometimes. So I'll catch that rabbit eventually, but no, that was great.

12:59That was great. All right. So what are some common misconceptions about running a business and how do you address them? Well, one for sure, um, is it's easy. Uh, you know, people think that when you're a CEO of a, of a business that, uh, you've arrived and, you know, it's just, uh, rainbows and unicorns. but it's that's never the case you know we were all created to work I believe and we were here for a reason and you know a lot of people think that you know you work your way to the top whatever the top might be quote unquote and once you get there once you arrive then it's just easy peasy you don't have to worry about anything you don't have to lead anymore you got other people that lead for you and you just kind of sit back and go fishing well that's not the case um you still have to be um you still have to be in the wheelhouse i i tell it to our team like this you know this business is a lot like a ship and there's a wheelhouse you got the captain you got the crew and everybody has a position.

14:17Um, and you know, me being the CEO, um, we, our, uh, CEO of a chief operation or operating officer of the, uh, of our business, you know, I let him grab the steering wheel and steer the ship a lot. Um, and our business manager, I let her steer the ship in her area a lot, but I stay in the wheelhouse. If the ship ever starts to tip over and try to fall or there's major problems and the crew needs direction and they need somebody to ask questions to or help, I'll grab the steering wheel and I'll try to ride the ship the best I can or show them how to ride the ship the best I can. So that being said, one of the hardest or one of the biggest misconceptions is just that, you know, it's easy.

15:10But it's definitely not, for sure. You know, another thing is, you know, people, another misconception is for a CEO is you think that people just want to work for you just for how much you're going to pay them based on salary. But the reality is people don't know how much you care until you show them how much you care. And as a business owner, it's important to invest in your people and care for your people. You know, people will stay inside of your business as your business is growing, and they'll deal with the salary that they have, you know, currently have if they know they're in a good situation.

16:00The culture is good. They know that people around them have their back and that people love them, may not like them all the time, but they do love them and that they're going to be there for them. They have a boss and an owner that knows that they're going to be there for them and is going to be there no matter what. So, you know, that's a huge misconception is, you know, if I tell any other leader or young leader, if I was going to tell a young leader, what are some misconceptions? Don't think you can just pay somebody some big amount of money and all your problems are going to go away. Or you're just going to throw it all in them because, you know, that doesn't mean anything.

16:41That could cause you, that could sink your ship quickly. because nobody cares for your business like the owner cares, the person who's created it. You know, it's like a mother and a child, you know, or a father and a son. It's the same thing, you know. If you've helped create it from ground up, you're going to care for that business like nobody else, more than an employee will. But the goal is to create leaders that are inside your business that feel like that business is theirs too. And give them the leadership and give them the authority to make some hard decisions and make some tough calls.

17:28That affects everybody. And once they feel that and they hold the weight of that, they'll realize that, you know, hey, you know, the CEO, the owner, you know, does trust me. Um, so that, those are some misconceptions for sure. Um, that, that, that you can just, um, buy your way into freedom. That just, that, that, that's, that's, that's a big, no, no big, big misconception for sure. That's one of them. I can talk for hours. Okay. No, you're good. You got, no, that was wonderful. Um, so what have you attributed? I mean, you kind of went over this a little bit earlier, you know, other than the culture and hiring the right people.

18:05what other things have you attributed to your growth so far um you know i don't i'm not sure where this podcast lands and i'm not sure where um you guys uh where you are but you know i'm just going you asked me to be on here so i'll be honest and the number one contributing factor for us being successful that's your question right yeah um is is jesus christ um is making christ the center of our business and letting God take control of this business. And, you know, there's a lot of times, you know, I'm by no means a good person. I'm not at all. I'm a terrible person. The only thing good inside of me is Jesus Christ.

18:49And I give him the reason we're successful is because of that and that alone. I mean, he can make us great or he can take it all away. Whatever, I'm good with it. I'm just here to be a servant, you know, and to. So I say that to also say that one of my goals as a CEO is for Ducker Land Management to not be a business where the employees grow the business, but the business grows the employees. you know it's probably not you know if you're asking how can we make more money and things like that well yeah there's ways to do that but more importantly how can you grow your people how can I make these how can I get them to be a stronger father a stronger mother how can they be a stronger brother sister how can they be a stronger employee what are we doing to help see them grow i love to see our um these new hires come in as an unskilled tradesman when you get hired at ducker land management at the bottom of the barrel you're called an unskilled tradesman and as you work your way up your next step will be a skilled tradesman and i love to see these guys come in that are young and they're unskilled and they don't even know how to crank a leaf blower or run a chainsaw or or cut a paver you know or try a concrete you know they all know i love to see them go from unskilled to skilled when they make that leap and then man when they they they see these big machines that we have these big excavators and bulldozers and trucks and things like that and they're like man you know i'll never be able to run something like that or they get real intimidated.

20:50And within six months, you see them become, or a year, you see them become an operator. And just see the pride, you know, that just fills their heart and their mind and their soul. That, man, that is just the greatest thing in the world. So it's important for us to grow the people. I'm more happy to see our team grow. It makes me more happy to see them grow than it does to see a large bank account. We're blessed. We've made some money, for sure. We've done really well. But I can't take all the credit for that. It's been a team effort, 100%. The team has done a fantastic job, and without them, we would have nothing.

21:40My pride and joy in this business is the people, for sure. That's our success. is the I'll that till the day I die you know show me your people and I'll show you your future you know and it's very important to just to continue to work hard at growing your people yeah that's an extremely powerful answer I'll be honest with you thank you for your honesty though that's awesome so next question how do you balance your personal life with the demands of running a business I don't you don't I don't. Um, I, uh, you know, um, my, our C12 group, they challenge me every month. Um, we have what's called a balance wheel.

22:27And that's a great question you asked. Um, and inside that balance wheel is, is many things, but, but one of those is, is your family and your quality time with your family and your business. And, um, and so I'm not good at it. Um, I'm try every day. Um, it's very tempting to be inside this office, in this conference room, uh, inside the shop, inside the business. It's very tempting to do it 24 seven. Um, but also, you know, my job is as I'm, I'm a, I'm a husband and I'm a father, um, more importantly, and I need to, you know, consistently and constantly, you know, grow my family and be with my family.

23:09So I would say the biggest help that I've had is monthly checkups to any other CEO out there or, you know, PM, whatever you might, whatever you're, you're, if you're up there in the, in the, in the higher rankings of your business, I would say every single month, ask yourself, sit down, ask yourself, how much time have I spent on my family? and how much time have I spent in this business? And you need to spend as much possible time with your family as possible. If not, your family will know. Sometimes every month when it comes to my balance, well, when I rate myself one to 10, one being the worst, 10 being the best, I let my wife answer that and say, hey, when it comes to college time between me and you or us and our family, where would you rate me this month?

24:03And she's like, a four. You haven't been around. I'm like, well, this coming month, I'm going to, on my schedule, I'm going to schedule time to be with just you guys, spend time with you guys, and work hard and make it a priority. Be intentional. Be very intentional in making time for my family. If you're not intentional to make time for your family, man, there are so many CEOs out there that just absolutely get, they get swallowed up in their business and they get divorced. You know, the kids don't know who they are. They haven't seen baseball games, football games, whatever it might, whatever the kids' sports are.

24:42The kids don't know, you know, and at the end of the day, my belief is at the end of this lifetime, 50 years from now. people don't care how much money you've made or how successful you've been in business when it comes in terms of money what matters is what you instill in people and what you instill in your children and what you instill in your wife if you want to retire with your wife you better invest in her right now and constantly invest in her because whenever it comes to quote-unquote retirement which who knows if we all of us will actually get to retire but when it comes to retirement, if you want your wife to be around, you better make time for her now.

25:24If you don't, she's not going to be there. I can BS it all you want, but the truth of the matter is I've seen it happen. I'm sure you have to. It happens all the time. She'll find somebody that'll give her the time. Absolutely. 100%. And I would say the biggest help is monthly reviews. Just rate Rate yourself one to 10, you know, 10 being the best, one being the worst. You know, how much time have you spent, like actual quality time with your wife and how much quality time have you spent with your family? Because family and your spouse, it's two separate things. And, you know, you have to spend more time with your spouse than you need to spend with your whole family.

26:11You know, because at the end of the day, your kids are going to grow up and they're going to get out of here. Well, that's the goal. and then you're there with your wife. And if you don't know her, man, it's going to be a hard road. Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. I love that. I love that. All right, so what words of advice would you offer to other business owners who are looking to grow?

26:34You know, my biggest words of advice, you know, would be number one, understand that there's a higher power out there. There's a higher being, and he wants nothing but the best for you, and he wants to see your business grow. Man, you know, just to make an impact on the world and to be godly, you know, you don't have to go out and witness and be a preacher or anything. You can just take your business and, I mean, just smile at somebody. Who can argue with that? Shake somebody's hand. Give them a hug. Everybody could be a customer and say, hey, you know, I hope you're having a great day today. I mean, you'll be surprised how those things help.

27:17But my biggest advice is to humble yourself as a CEO. Be a servant as a CEO. Be a leader. Be a strong leader. Lead like a buffalo. Don't be afraid. You can be afraid. Man, most days I'm scared to death. And I don't know what I'm doing sometimes. I don't have a damn clue, but I do know that I'm going to get up and try. I'm going to pray and I'm going to say, God, I can't sit in the CEO seat today. I don't know the answers. I don't know what I'm doing right now. This is way over my head, but I know you do. And I would ask you if you can, you handle this situation today. I'm going to be your servant.

28:04Be there for your employees. Care for your employees. If you have any employees that do not meet your culture of your business, I don't know what your business is. I don't know where those of you who are listening, I don't know where your business stands. I don't know the culture of your business. But I will say if you have employees that don't match the culture of your business, then they're the bad apple. And I think you should talk to them about it first. Give them a chance to change. And if they don't, they need to be taken off the team. And you need to work hard at hiring the right people in.

28:42Don't wait around for that bad apple to become a new fresh fruit because most of the time it won't happen. It's important to get rid of it and focus so hard on your hiring. And make sure that you're living out being hungry, humble, and smart. If you're a CEO that loses his cool, loses his temper or her, then, you know, stop that. You know, be calm. Be courageous. You know, just because you can pitch a big fit and cuss everybody out, threaten everybody in the business, just because you can do it doesn't mean that's the right thing to do. it takes more of a man and more of a woman to stop, be calm, think through the decision, pray about the decision, make the right call the best you can.

29:41And then once you make that decision, follow through with that decision and, and continue to, to grow your people. And when you do those things, it's successful. And I'm not talking about money generation. We're, we're very successful because I've seen so many men and women, uh, in this, in Ducker Land Management grow. And just, you know, there's a guy, um, who I've known his for years. I I mean, since he was very young, teenage years. I could be getting the dates off, but anyways, I've known him for a long time. And he came in, he knew nothing about this business. He knew nothing about how to operate.

30:31He knew nothing about, you know, building walls and concrete. And he knew a little bit, not a lot. And now he is our head foreman. and I trust him with my life. I trust him to lead a bunch of other crew members. He's a great operator now. He's a great driver. He is on heck of a concrete. He's also a heck of a wall builder and a paver installer. He's fantastic. And our company has financially benefited, but it's also personally benefited from his growth because he's brought in other people on his team. And also he's helped train and grow them. And he's currently doing it to this day. That's just one of many of our guys that I'm just so proud of them.

31:32So I would say don't focus on the money. Focus on the people. Because the people is what matters. uh you know post halim there's been and what we do there's been a ton of work that's come out of it um but it's not always going to be there and the companies that have good strong employees team members uh and you have a family group versus just people that work together to make money when the economy slows down because it will it always does whenever you go through a low point Those businesses that don't have a good culture, they will crumble and fall and disintegrate and they'll disperse. So, you know, protect your culture, protect your people.

32:16The money will come, but it's important to protect your people and see your people grow. Perfect, perfect. All right, so what's the next big thing for Docker Land Management? Oh, man. Well, our goal this year was to develop a crew specifically for large jobs, which would be jobs basically that would be large-scale landslides, large-scale walls, things that are large, commercial. and we wanted to have a crew specifically just to knock out those large jobs. We're almost there. Maybe in the next four or five months, we'll be to the point where we'll have that crew that will just tackle all the large jobs.