How Two Roofers Built Trust Without High Pressure Sales with Ben and Keary

16:04Yeah.

16:04Carrie Sampson:Okay. I love that. I love it. So, and this is a good one here. What would you guys say is something about you both personally that had to change in order for your business to grow? To be honest, I don't think I changed a whole lot in my personal life. I did leave, you know, after about a year. I mean, I did leave my corporate job and started working in the business full time. You know, that was a change in my personal life, but we didn't have to do that. Kiri was successful being the only employee of the business and we were making money. But, you know, it was a time where we're either going to grow and we're going to make this work or, you know, we're going to continue with the status quo.

16:52Carrie Sampson:And neither one of us want to be at the status quo. So it was time to make that move. And, you know, I think we're better for it as a company and I know my headspace as well as stress level is much better even though it's a different kind of stress being away from the corporate world and just being able to make your own decisions without a bunch of red tape is a lot of relief in itself it is but Ben Ben's being

17:23Ben Lyle:well a little polite here we were only going to grow so much with me overseeing everything because I'm still can't get over the, the idea that I, I've always, I've always operated that I can make the amount of money that I can make with these two hands. And because I'm so job focused, if Ben didn't come on board to help grow the business, I wasn't going to get off the job site to go pursue more business. Cause I was always going to be concerned that if I took on more than, well, I'm already working 5 a.m. to 9 p.m. There's no more hours in the day. There's no more work to be gotten. And so Ben and I are very different and it couldn't work out better.

18:05Ben Lyle:He is really good at all the things that I'm not good at. And I'd like to say vice versa.

18:11Carrie Sampson:Yeah. I mean, I curious the operations guy, man, and he wants to be on top of it. He wants to make sure that, you know, the guys are doing exactly what we said we were going to do and really ultimately after 22 years of managing people in the corporate world, I don't really want to do that anymore. But he's the one with the most roofing knowledge and experience and there's nobody better to be out there putting roofs on for us.

18:37Ben Lyle:I hate to say it. There's a lot of people out there with a lot more roofing knowledge. It just doesn't get done right.

18:42Carrie Sampson:So yeah, if someone shadowed you both for a day, for a full day, let's say, hypothetically, what would surprise them the most about how you guys operate if somebody did what for a day sorry they shadowed you shadowed us for a day for a full day yeah i would say and it's really weird how this has happened because i didn't want to be a sales guy but just the roles that we've taken on is kiri wants to be the one managing the jobs and making sure that like i said earlier he's he's making sure that what we told the customer is actually happening. I've kind of reverted back to being the sales guy. So I do a lot of sales appointments, but both of us have the same sales mentality.

19:29Carrie Sampson:So I think from a running appointment standpoint, what people would probably think is the strangest thing about how we do business is that when we go and talk to a customer, we don't give them a quote while we're there ever ever yeah we don't we will tell them like if we can figure out what the price is if we've got all the information we'll go ahead and give them a price but we won't give them the quote we won't try to sell them you know can i get you on the schedule now that kind of thing like we don't do that we just we give them the quote we tell them or we give them the numbers and educate them on what the options are to whatever it is right if it's a restoration or replacement or whatever.

20:13Carrie Sampson:Here's the options and here's what it's going to cost or here's a ballpark of what it's going to cost. And I'm going to send you a detailed formal quote tonight. When I get back to the office, I'm going to send you everything that you need to know about everything that we talked about. And we leave it to them, right? That's not how a salesman is supposed to operate. That doesn't close the deal. So there's a couple different things there is Kiri and I, neither one want to be sold. And me personally, when I start being sold, my guard goes up and I'm very turned off by that with a salesman. And the other side of that is that neither one of us are comfortable doing that.

20:57Carrie Sampson:So that's the approach that we take is, hey, I'm not a salesman, I'm the owner. I'm here to educate you on the options that you asked about. Here's what the price is. I'll send you a formal quote later on. Let me know if there's anything that we can help you with or if you want to discuss further. And that's a scary aspect, especially when we started the business, because there's a delay. A lot of people appreciate that approach, but there's probably a, I'll say, three-week to a month and a half delay sometimes on getting that job. But I think most of the time when we do get the job, the customer will say something like, I really appreciate all of the information, the amount of effort that you put in on inspecting my roof, on putting the quote together and giving me my options.

21:47Carrie Sampson:I really appreciate that. And you didn't try to hard sell me. So I think that's something that people would really find different. That's kind of a point of contention that we had in the past with how we did business and whether or not we were going to push a certain product and things like that. It's just not what we're comfortable with and not what we would want to do. We don't want somebody else doing that to us. So we look at that as that's our way of respecting the customer is to make sure that, you know, we're treating them the way we would want to be treated.

22:20Ben Lyle:You hear all these, you know, in sales, you hear the same phrases over and over. I've heard them my whole life. You know, lead the customer to a decision. Yeah, that's a really bad word. You want to make sure that you equip them with all the information that they need to make the right decision for themselves. Your job is not to leave them. And he's right. There's a lag. When we started this, you know, there were a couple of months where we were like, oh, my goodness. But they started calling. And this week, I want to add this. This week, we're doing two jobs that are one of them. We met with these people about it had to be February of last year because we met them at a home show and went out and looked at the roof and gave him a quote.

23:03Ben Lyle:And we're doing that one this week. You know, they called us a year plus later. The other job that we're doing up in Kingsport this week, same thing. Met him last summer, and he's pulling the trigger this spring. And that makes you feel really good. You don't realize what an impact you have on people until you get a call nine months to 18 months later. They've been, they listened to what you said, and they held on to that, and they waited until the time was right for them. that gives me warm fuzzy feelings it does okay all right all right so so basically you know

23:39Carrie Sampson:to sum it up i mean you know i guess i guess what would surprise them the most i guess kind of in a short in a short sentence so so would that be the most shocking thing they would see as far as you know spending the day with you i think it is because when we talk to other business owners when we talk to other salespeople and things like that, they always try to correct us. They're like, oh, no, no, you can't do it that way. You got to close the deal while you're in the house. If you don't close the deal while you're in the house, you're not going to get that sale. And that's not true. It's not true.

24:13Carrie Sampson:So, yeah, I think that's probably the most shocking thing that somebody would see about our model. There are other things. Obviously, we do things differently. we've already kind of talked about that with you know one of the owners touching every job and that kind of thing but i think that that sales approach and don't get me wrong i i had to have the revelation of no pressure like we didn't want to have gimmicks we didn't want to we didn't want to have sales pitches and all of this like we didn't want anything flashy in our sales approach and And so it was all like, OK, no pressure. We're just going to educate the customer.

24:55Carrie Sampson:And then I had the revelation that that in itself is a sales approach. Kind of a gimmick. And you could call it a gimmick in itself. But honestly, it's about respecting the customer, their time and helping them make the best decision that gives them the best value for their home. OK, OK. So let's go ahead and talk numbers without getting too specific. You know, what was the turning point where things started to scale and become profitable? How long did that take for you guys?

25:25Ben Lyle:Are we profitable? We made payroll last week. We each of us take a very modest salary. And, you know, we both made a lot more money before we started this. But we put everything back into the company. Our guys have everything they need to do the job the right way every time. no excuses they have all the tools matter of fact we've got that van loaded down with so much safety equipment that they don't normally use but if they ever needed it's there you know it's we've done the foundation of this company has been done properly we're going into our third year business and this year we'll profit pretty well i believe and so not to cut you off but i'm gonna cut you off yeah sure you have to with me uh cliff what's really odd for us is year one we made a profit

26:21Carrie Sampson:wasn't a big profit but we were to the good and we've got another partner silent partner if you will whatever he puts together you know all of our financial records and stuff like that he's the one that helped us invest and get started and he did the numbers and sent them to us the first year and he's like, guys, nobody hardly ever makes a profit the first year. And that was surprising to us because we felt like we were constantly struggling. And when we got down to the end of it, we're like, okay, this is working. So we're going to continue to expand that and do what we're doing. And I guess I say all of that because our sales approach is so strange.

27:08Carrie Sampson:We do things. We could make a lot more money if we weren't so specific about how careful we are, how we approach the sales scenario, that kind of thing. We could probably make more money. So in the end, when we got to the end of the first year and he said, hey, we made a profit this year, that was kind of a confirmation that we were doing the right thing. And that was a good feeling as well. I won't say it was a warm and fuzzy, but it felt good that, hey, this business model does work. There's a way to make an honest living and treat customers right and, you know, take care of our families in the process.

27:49Ben Lyle:And the bonus to the way that we're doing things is, you know, selfishly looking, you know, into the future. We don't go back and do any rework. So we still made a profit while doing everything right up front. And then years from now, we're not going to spend more money going back to these jobs and correcting things, problems that rear their ugly head later on. I'm not worried about that at all. And so each year we'll get more and more profitable.

28:17Carrie Sampson:Okay. Okay. I love that. I love that. So let's get, let's get into, you guys have a team, right? Of employees, correct? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So what would you say is the fastest way someone could lose their job working for you gosh there's there are so many but

28:39Ben Lyle:smart off to a customer that something to do with the customer it has to be it be disrespectful to a customer not take the customer's concerns really to heart but we're we're you know really good i i I know how a lot of other companies operate. I'm sure Ben does too, but I know a lot of roofing contractors. We know a lot of contractors in general. And, you know, it's true that there's not enough trades in this country for the customer base. And so what's happened over the years is that the communication is really lax. You know, we'll be out as soon as we can. There's none of that with our customers.

29:19Ben Lyle:Our customers know exactly when we're coming. the crew if they're 15 minutes behind schedule will give them a call if they don't pick up they'll send them a text and say we're in route we're stuck in traffic going through knoxville but we should see you about 9 15 you know that that's really really important so i would say something with the customer one of our employees says something sideways to a customer or

29:44Carrie Sampson:disrespects the customer, that's probably the quickest way to lose your job. And I hate to say this, you know, safety is supposed to be first. But yeah, second would be definitely be safety. If you're not following the safety procedures that we put in place, or you're not using the equipment that we provided, then that's a problem. And our presence on the job site helps with that but that's something that we never want to put somebody in a situation where they're uncomfortable so that's why like kiri was talking about we've got the the van loaded down with different kinds of equipment different things to tie off with if it's a steep roof things like that and that would be a very very close second it would any any kind of i don't know how to put it But any safety, not violation, but just doing something unsafe that could put themselves in a bad situation, that's going to be the end of our relationship with an employee.

30:50Ben Lyle:Now, I'd say at this point, I think we're fortunate. I think we realize now we've hired good people because we really haven't had to deal with any of these issues. We have had to show up and say, hey, that's a little bit steep. I'd prefer you all anchor in. And they're like, oh, we're okay. Well, sure, you're okay because you think you're immoral because you're 28 years old, but you're not. But as far as customers and the way all of our staff treats the customers, I think we've gotten really lucky. Everybody operates the way we would like them to operate.

31:21Carrie Sampson:Yeah, we see it in some of our employees that we've had. They're kind of rough around the edges, construction guys, right? And then when the customer walks out and they start talking to them, it's like a different person. And we're like, man, I didn't know that he was capable of that professional repertoire, I guess, of how they treat and talk to the customer. And we really appreciate that.

31:47Ben Lyle:What really everybody needs accountability. And going back to us, you know, touching every job site. when when our employees see one of the owners show up at a job site and chat it up with the customer not just chat it up but i've had enough conversation i've had enough communication with them the first couple of times that we met that i can show up on a job site and we can chat about real stuff about something that we talked about before they understand that the owners truly are involved in understanding what our customer wants and being willing they're not just a number And I know that sounds cliche-ish, but when the employee sees that from the owner, they're going to take that mindset and roll with it.

32:29Ben Lyle:That's what we've seen. And I'd say we're fortunate, but I guess we had something to do with the decision and bringing them on. So, you know, I wasn't going to take any credit for it.

32:39Carrie Sampson:I'm just really impressed with our report.

32:45Ben Lyle:Oh, man, I feel bad.

32:49Carrie Sampson:All right. Well, I appreciate that. So, yeah, let's go ahead and head into the quick fire round. So how this works is, you know, and how I'm going to do this with the both of you is I'm going to, you know, say one word. And then I want you guys to tell me the first thing that comes to your mind when you hear each word in regards to running your business. And then you realize how dangerous this is. It's going to be fun. Let's do it. Let's do it. Are we going to go back and forth or are we going to yell it out at the same time? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess, you know, take turns, I guess. That'll be the easiest way for the audience to catch those.

33:21Carrie Sampson:saying okay i'm gonna go first all right perfect all right first word of success money

33:31Carrie Sampson:okay oh okay so you want me to do the whole thing okay i've got i got you i thought we were going to take turns like you say one and then okay gotcha oh what do you want me to sorry let's start over yeah yeah i was gonna say it from each of us oh answer me yeah so basically give me the first thing that comes to your mind when you hear each word and then expand upon why you chose that word okay okay oh we have to give a commentary this is gonna take forever this is not gonna be quick quick's not what we do let's try it no that's fine that's fine that's fine all right first word is success money you know i think that's why we're in business long term i want this to be a business that my kids inherit and run and do the right way so we have to make

34:16Ben Lyle:money to be successful and I don't care your time family but when I hear success I I think family but same thing you know yeah I'd like to see our kids take over this business that's what success means to me failure what do you say failure oh I mean that only word that comes to mind is disaster and I think that speaks for itself. I'm sorry. Failure's not going to happen. If you own a roofing company, you'll never go out of business unless you do something egregiously wrong. Everyone has a roof. You shouldn't fail. All you have to do is do what you say you're going to do and with a roofing company, you will be in business forever.

35:09Ben Lyle:You should never close your doors. I guess failure

35:14Carrie Sampson:the only thing I can think of is lawsuit

35:21Carrie Sampson:and that's I guess that's because I'm more on the business side is that's a concern of mine and that's goes back to the safety thing goes back to you know doing what we say we're going to do I don't ever want to be in that situation so I try to guard the business the best that I can to make sure that doesn't happen that's a good answer I don't even think that way that's why we make

35:44Ben Lyle:I know

35:46Carrie Sampson:seriously though you guys play off of each other great you guys need to start your own podcast like seriously you guys can do great playing off each other that's the problem is we both think we're really funny but nobody else no one else thinks we're funny the only other people we've asked is our wives and they don't think we're funny at all

36:04Ben Lyle:my wife literally reminds me sometimes before I leave to go to work because she's an early riser too she'll tell me and remember when you get out there in the world you are not funny she'll fuck me with that and i tell her i don't do it for other people this is just to entertain myself i'm not yeah next word is uh burnout what burn out uh vacation vacation yeah so i i forced

36:36Carrie Sampson:Kiri to take Easter weekend off last week. And I wasn't happy about it. He's like, well, can I just, I'll go over on Saturday and check on, and I was like, Kiri, it's Easter weekend.

36:47Ben Lyle:Well, we had a crew that was working Saturday, and I like to lead by example, but, you know, these guys are 25 years younger than me. I don't have to, yeah. Yeah. Vacation, that's a good one. I can't expand on that. I need to learn to take care of something. Okay, okay. Okay. Scaling. Scaling? Yes. Okay. That's Ben.

37:14Carrie Sampson:First thing that comes to mind when you say scaling.

37:21Carrie Sampson:Markets, I guess. Markets is the big thing, right? How do you scale a small business where the owner touches every job and take that into other areas? and I guess my mind goes there because that's what we're trying to do you know we are moving to the Asheville area but it's going to be it's going to be a slow roll because we have to find the right person and that doesn't mean hiring somebody and hitting the ground running that means hiring somebody and acclimating them to how we do business so it's not going to be easy but that's you know that's the next step is for us to have a new person that can go into another market and build a rapport with customers and trust with customers in that area scaling is

38:13Ben Lyle:going to be hard scaling is going to be hard i i don't i don't want to think about it for all the reasons that he said i know we're going to eventually but i'm a i'm a worker bee ben is business minded and i thought your way of calling me lazy no no i'm you said you're working i am i'm just a business guy no i am singular ben is integral i've already i've already explained how important you are stop it yeah i i'm singularly focused i i'm worrying about what goes on at the job side and uh yeah everything we've already discussed that's that's not something i can wrap my head around honestly i just want to go make sure we're doing what we're supposed to do okay competition irrelevant i do not care what other people do how they do it how much money they make

39:08Carrie Sampson:i do not care yeah my first when you say competition my first thing that comes to mind is price because that's usually what the customers will throw at you it's like well i already had a quote here and and i'll just tell them you know we're we're pretty aware that we're not going to be the cheapest and then i point them back to the reasons and all of the things that we've talked about you know how we put a roof on how we do the work how it's managed all of that is the reason that we're not the cheapest and you know we're okay with that we won't get all the jobs because of it but those aren't the jobs that we want it's not worth you know doing subpar work just to be cheaper just to get the work.

39:50Carrie Sampson:So we have a level of quality that we're going to maintain as a minimum. So just trying to compete on price is not an option.

40:00Ben Lyle:Yeah, I say it all the time and I mean it every time I say it. I would rather do$6 million a year in sales and do everything the right way than do$16 million a year in sales and worry that we have not. Love it.

40:14Carrie Sampson:the last word is freedom retirement which I don't think I'll ever do I just want to do what I enjoy doing and what's really weird about that is I enjoy working not necessarily working in this business or working for somebody else I just enjoy working I like working with my hands I like going into my wood shop and building stuff Like I enjoy working, but yeah, when you say freedom, I think retirement, but that just means that I'm going to work on something different.

40:54Ben Lyle:You know, I'm surprised that I'm saying this, but you said freedom. I think a winner. There's not a whole lot of business during the winter. You have to be available as a business. but freedom to me means that we're doing well enough which by the way translates into we've hired the right people and put them in the right places where I don't have to feel this compulsion to be everywhere all at once because I already can it's fiscal impossibility so freedom to me means that maybe my wife and I can enjoy the winners she is recently kind of semi-retired and is going to do her own little not little business sorry baby you know do her own business But again, hers is seasonal, too.

41:37Ben Lyle:And freedom to me means maybe maybe we've got 12 grandkids and they're scattered around the country and maybe we spend the winter and go see them. That would be nice. That's my immediate freedom.

41:49Carrie Sampson:OK, OK. I love that. All right. So I appreciate you guys get to that quickfire round. So where do you guys think your industry is going and what are most people getting wrong about it right now? you think?

42:01Ben Lyle:Same thing that I was worried about when we took on the rejuvenation part of our company. There are so many products out there that don't do what they claim to do. But also, you know, technology expounds so quickly. As long as good product, we've got a great product and we know it. In the beginning when we started this, I was a little bit worried about the products that didn't perform the way they claim to, souring the market. I'm not worried about that. We're not a rejuvenation company. We're a roofing company that offers rejuvenation as a great option if your roof is a candidate. And since you operate that way, I'm not concerned about the rejuvenation fad.

42:41Ben Lyle:I think better, better products will come out. I think it'll be a viable industry that takes hold. And I didn't feel that way three years ago, but I feel that way now. yeah that's good okay all right so good on that did you hear what i did there i stopped talking when i was done with my thought that was awesome it left me speechless i know i need to work on that more

43:11Carrie Sampson:anything else to add or i guess you know i want to dog out manufacturers but it's not it's not just the shingle manufacturers it's everything in the world man you know things aren't made the way they were 20 30 40 years ago so and again i come from the corporate world and manufacturing and everybody's trying to do more with less so less asphalt in the shingles less whatever less thickness what i mean i i don't know that much about the manufacturing process of shingles so i'm not not trying to dog that out dog out any manufacturers but I mean, the way of the world is things are just not made the way they are anymore.

43:54Carrie Sampson:And I don't know what that looks like in another 50 years.

43:57Ben Lyle:We're a throwaway society. And so products don't, they should be, but the companies look at it as they don't have to be made as well. I'll tell you one, the average person in the United States stays in their home seven years. Okay. Are they really concerned about putting a roof that lasts 10 or 15 years longer than the competition? probably not because they're going to leapfrog and jump into a bigger house and then a bigger house. And there's nothing wrong with that. But the problem with that whole scenario is that whoever takes that house is going to change the roof. And it's, it's not good for anybody, but the shingle manufacturers.

44:37Ben Lyle:I hope they don't listen to the podcast. I don't care if they listen to it or not. They should be making their stuff better. all we can do is offer what is currently the best performed product and also not get wrapped up in what the because we said i don't know if we're allowed to say it so i won't but we we only offer and install two companies shingles we won't touch anything else and it's not because a couple of the other companies don't have some good products but there's something we don't like about the company first of all your entire line should be good if they're built right You shouldn't have to say, well, there's a certain product from this manufacturer that's good.

45:16Ben Lyle:That makes me not want to have anything to do with the manufacturer. We don't work for those companies. And we constantly are making sure that we're checking the third-party testing to make sure that the companies that we've decided to offer are still the tip of the spear. Because that may not always be true. And we don't want to get wrapped up in, you know, we've been saying the same thing for years. but then behind the scenes, the company is putting, you know, whatever, less product, thinner asphalt, their granules are made faster and don't adhere as well. The list goes on and on. We want to make sure that we understand that there's a good reason that we offer what we offer.

45:54Ben Lyle:We don't work for those companies just because we offer them. We work for our customer. Okay.

46:00Carrie Sampson:Okay. So, and I want you to, I want you both to be as candid as you can with this next the answer to this next question. I know you guys will, so I don't even know why I said that, but you guys are okay so far, so I don't think that's changed, but let's just say, you know, small business owners listening to the podcast episode today with you both, and let's just say they're, you know, they're having just a rough go at things this year, you know, let's say they're having a bad day or maybe even a bad month, or let's say they're having just a bad, you know, start to 2026. I mean, we're already in the second quarter here, you know, and they're feeling stuck or overwhelmed and just things aren't working out in their business.

46:36Carrie Sampson:What's a piece of advice you want them to hear from you today? Sorry, I feel like we're still in the quickfire round, so I'm just going to say the first thing that comes to the top of my head. But focus on what you can control. That's all you can do. And I've been there. I've been there as a sole proprietor in my home improvement business. it's a lot easier in a partnership with you know having kiri to bounce ideas off of but you know focus on the things that you can control and eventually that you know doing the right things is going to come to fruition compromising your integrity to try and and turn things around is definitely not the way to go because that'll wind up biting you in the long run.

47:23Carrie Sampson:But my suggestion would be focus on the things that you can control. And I would find another business owner or mentor or whatever you want to call it. Find somebody else in your community that you could sit down with and bounce ideas off of and really just get some outside counsel, an outside perspective of where your business is at will help you more than you know.

47:49Ben Lyle:So I'll add one small thing to that because Ben and I are faced with doing this right now as we're growing. A lot of business owners are afraid to hire people smarter than them. That's antithetical, period. Hire the best person you can, even if they're better than you. Ross Perot is one of the smartest businessmen that I've ever been privileged to listen to and read. And, you know, when he's asked for his secret to success, he said he hires people that are better than him. And so if you're in a rut and you don't know what to do and as a business owner, hire someone that's better than you. And it's not it's not an ego thing.

48:33Ben Lyle:That's what you want.

48:35Carrie Sampson:I love that. I love that. I feel like that's really good advice. So what's next for Roof Guys of East Tennessee? What should people be excited about coming up in the near future? I know we're heading into full-on spring and warm season.

48:49Ben Lyle:Gosh, that's a hard one for me because it all comes back to the same thing. It's not about new products or the next new thing or whatever. It is the grind of doing the right thing on every job every single time. It's not flashy. There's no bells and whistles. I believe in putting your head down and doing the work, and that's really all I think about. Is that bad? Yeah, I mean, I think there are, you know, we talked about markets and territories and things like that.

49:22Carrie Sampson:I mean, that's really the only exciting, I guess it's only exciting for us. But I guess for your neck of the woods, we're coming to North Carolina. As soon as we can get the right person and get them trained and working the way that we want it to be done. And, you know, that's the next big thing, I guess, is expanding over towards Asheville. And just so you know, the crews that we have would be the crews that are doing the installs would be the same installers that we're using here. We would just have to bring on a guy that can run sales appointments and manage those jobs on that side of the mountain, if you will.

50:02Carrie Sampson:But, yeah, I guess that's the most exciting thing I can come up with. other than we get to go eat lunch later. Now, is that going to be for all of Western North Carolina or just the Asheville area? We would rather do west of Asheville. We already do Maggie Valley, some of that stuff over there, and then all the way we're talking with a couple of customers in Burnsville. So, yeah, anywhere in Western North Carolina, anything west of Asheville we can handle. Okay. Okay, perfect, perfect. All right. And finally, what's the best way for someone to connect with you or learn more about what you all do?

50:42Carrie Sampson:Website, Facebook. Text me. I don't. I guess the best way is probably the website. There's a contact form. I'll get that email real time and we'll get back to them pretty quickly most of the time. OK, perfect. Perfect. Yeah. So, guys, thank you so much for coming on. And I really appreciate you guys coming on today, you know, and sharing your perspective and you come up and, you know, but you're behind the scenes of your business. Really appreciate you guys. And I wish you all continued success.

51:10Ben Lyle:Well, thanks for having us, Cliff. Yeah.

51:12Carrie Sampson:I really appreciate you guys today. Thank you. Hey, thanks for listening to the Epic Entrepreneurs podcast. Here's three things that you can do. Number one, remember to subscribe to the podcast. It takes very little effort on your part. It's going to help you and your fellow entrepreneurs. Plus, you guys know how it works. The more subscribers we get, the more cool things we can offer to you. Second, to learn more about growing your business, just download my book, The Coach Approach. It's free for you at giftfrombill.com. That's giftfrombill.com. Hey, and if you'd like more info about growing your business and what we can do to help you grow your business, send me an email directly.

52:05Carrie Sampson:Just send it to williamgilliland at actioncoach.com. That's my personal email that I read. No one else reads it first. It's not screened. It's my real email. Just send it to me. I can't wait to talk to you. Hey, and until then, all the best.