Owning A Plumbing Company Adds Work You Never See

0:00Everybody sees the success. We want the story behind it. This is Epic Entrepreneurs from Action Coach Business Growth Partners. My name is Cliff McRae. Each week, we sit down with business owners and leaders to uncover the decisions, setbacks, and turning points that shape their companies and the lessons you can use to grow yours. No fluff, no highlight reels, just what it really takes to build, lead, and grow a successful business. Let's get right into it.

0:45All right, everyone, welcome to this week's episode of Epic Entrepreneurs. I am Cliff McRae with Action Coach Business Growth Partners, where we work with local business owners to turn big ideas into real scalable growth. Today, I'm excited to be joined by George Sfarnas with Sfarnas Plumbing. George, thanks for being here. How are you doing today, sir? Thank you, Cliff. I'm really good. Thank you so much for having me. I'm very excited to be here and excited to talk to you today. Yeah, yeah. We're really excited to have you. So if you don't mind, let's go ahead and jump right into it. Sure. All right.

1:16So for those of you who may not know it yet, what is Sfarnas Plumbing and what do you provide for our community? So I am a family owned residential and commercial plumbing and gas mechanical service. So we offer new installs, remodels, repairs, water heaters, tankless water heaters, multifamily rentals. We really try to cover as much as we can on the plumbing realm. They also do gas work, though. So a lot of times people think it's just water and sewer, but gas is also a large part of my job. And that's something I take a lot of pride in doing as well. Yeah. And who is George Swarnes as a person?

1:55Who are you personally? Well, I am from Northern Virginia. I grew up on a farm, very small farm. We raise sheep. I'm Greek, so we just kind of par for the course there. I was homeschooled through middle school. I went to public high school in a very country setting high school. So I really just learned to work with my hands and fix a lot of things early on in my life. I played college lacrosse. I went to Davis and Elkins College up in West Virginia. That's where I met my now wife, Abby. And I played there for two years. And then I realized college really wasn't my setting, wasn't my scene. It was a lot of fun, but it was not really what I needed to do long-term.

2:38So I dropped out and started just landscaping and landscaped through the summer. And then that job kind of fell out during the fall when they got slow. And he said, Hey, I know somebody that is a manager at a plumbing business. Do you want to give them a ring and see if you could be a helper there? And that's kind of how I naturally fell into it. Nice, nice, nice. So, you know, you know, let's get kind of get into it a little bit. So what's something about running your business so far that people think is amazing, but it's actually complete BS when you hear it? I think a lot of people think the hours are better.

3:14You know, they will. And I'm guilty of this as well, if I'm being 100 % honest with you, Cliff. When I was a service tech for my seven years of just running constant service and having to be on call on the weekends or on weeknights, I'd always kind of daydream of, man, when I own my own business, I'm just going to have such better hours. I'm not going to work as much. And I'm just going to make more money. It's going to be just perfect. and yeah, just daisies. It's just going to be wonderful. But no, it's honestly, and everybody I'm sure says this too, it's a lot more work. Maybe not so much out in the field, but I am always on my computer.

3:53I'm always on the phone and I am always thinking of the next day and the next job. It is part of my life, you know, and it's something I guess with owning a business, it's a lot of my pride is attached to it and I think that's part of it. But no, the lesser work schedule or work hours. No, that was that was a daydream. Yeah. Now, George, I noticed on your website, your philosophy is, you know, honest work and an honest price. Right. Yes. In the plumbing industry. Why do you think honestly that has become such a differentiator? Well, I think a lot of times people, technicians, businesses, a lot of businesses now run on a flat rate system or a flat rate book.

4:42So they will go into calls. They will look at the reported problem from the homeowner or the tenant. And they'll get on their laptop and it'll just kind of be a description that almost matches the job. So it's not so much that I feel like people are looking at somebody and outright lying, but I think a lot of times in this industry, and I've noticed this firsthand, there will be calls that maybe the tech will just do his way to get through to the end and get out of there rather than letting the homeowner know, hey, there's a lot more work that needs to be done to get this right and safe, which is also a challenging conversation with the homeowner because then a lot of times they will say, well, it's been like this for 10 years.

5:22You know, what do you mean? It's not correct. So that's something I found that I really, I work hard with our business. My wife, you know, my business now is when I go in there and they report a problem to me, I'm going to give you the honest solution. And it's not always the thing you want to hear, but it is the honest right thing to do. And I always tell you my honest price up front of what it's going to be. There are no upfront surprises. There are no, at the end, extra prices that I tag on. I really just try to be upfront with the homeowner, but let them know there's more than just your one issue going on.

6:00So, you know, George, you spent years apprenticing and becoming a master plumber before starting your own company. You know, what was the exact moment you thought, man, I think I can build this better myself rather than working for somebody else? Well, it was definitely a few years in the making. It wasn't one exact moment. I think when I went from hourly apprenticing to inside a van, a full-time technician on my own, quoting jobs, running my own calls, selling everything myself, I think the multiple years of doing that helped me have the experience and a little bit of confidence in starting my own business.

6:36And again, like I kind of touched on earlier, there's a lot more to it behind the scenes that now I realize. but I think those multiple years of just being out on my own, I didn't have a salesman. I didn't have somebody I would just set on the job and move on. I'd show up, I'd sell the job, I'd make it the connection with the customer and they would call that company number back, but they'd always ask for me. And so multiple years of doing that, I really think just kind of pushed me to finally realize it's my time to push out and go on my own. Cause if not, If not now, when? I had to just kind of do it.

7:12Yeah, I get it. Now, of course, every plumber has that nightmare call. It's like, oh boy, I can already tell this is going to be a long one. What has been the one job specifically you could think of where you pulled up and thought, oh man, this is going to be a long day?

7:31Well, I would say there's multiple that flood to my head that I'm trying to sift through and think of the most. I would say, honestly, a lot of times it's the remodels that I'm having to remove a cast iron bathtub. And I had to remove one this past week and I will never forget it. It was about 380 pounds. We waited on the scale when we were recycling it. And again, it was just Abby and I, my wife, God bless her. She helped me on one side and we pulled that thing up. We wrapped it in blankets and we pulled it through that house. And we knew that morning pulling up, having to do that, it was going to be a long, tiring day.

8:14Hopefully that wasn't on a Friday or a weekend or something. It was on a Friday. Oh, man. And believe it or not, that day I got a piece of metal shot into my eye from my saw-saw. I was wearing protective goggles and it got onto my eyebrow. And when I took them off, it like fell into my eye. And man, I had to go to the eye doctor. They had to do surgery to get it out. It started to rust in my eye. So that, that job, you know what? That job will stick with me forever. Yeah. Yeah. And you said that was recent, right? That was just this past week. Yeah. Oh, just this past week. Oh my God. Really recent.

8:53Yeah. Wow. Wow. So, you know, George, starting a business in the trades can be scary because, you know, your name and your reputation on every job. Does that pressure ever keep you up at night? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. And I would be lying flat out if I told you it did not. And I think that's something that I think it's a blessing or a curse. It helps keep me keep me on the path of always trying to be the best and striving to be the best because I'm my biggest critic. and I think it may not be the one key to success, but I think it's definitely pushed me in the right direction. Sometimes it does keep me up at night and I stress myself out more than anyone, but absolutely, absolutely my pride is on every job and I try not to let that become my ego, you know?

9:42And I think, again, that's something that I've grown a lot with just over this past year and a half of owning this business is I got to put my ego aside, even though I put a lot of pride in the work when something may not go the right way with plumbing. Because not everything just goes my way with plumbing. Everything just does not go the right way. There are things that come up. There are things that go wrong. There are things that the customer springs onto you. There are parts that malfunction. And that is something that is just par for the course. And I, again, I am learning to sift through that and balance that as a, as a business owner now.

10:20Now let's say, and you know, this is kind of hypothetical, but let's say if you could wave a magic wand right, right now and fix one challenge in your business tomorrow, what would it be? And what would you fix?

10:35Man, that's a really, that's a really, really good question. And I think honestly, the first that comes to mind with me is pricing. Would you like to be more competitive? Well, I would say, so I don't use a flat rate book. I don't use a pre-made price sheet. I base my prices off of prior experience working with other companies of what they charge, reporting to customers and customers reporting back to me what other companies charge. And then just the national, you know, the state average, things like that. But as a small business owner, just me, a lot of times I will pull up to a customer's house and they will expect the price to be a lot more affordable since it's just me doing the work and they think there's no overhead and everything's just a lot cheaper.

11:20But a lot of times I try to explain to the customer, the parts remain the same price and sometimes they're more expensive for me because I don't have the wholesale pricing and things like that. So if I had to wave a magic wand, it would be to give me more clarity and streamlined looking at these jobs that every job is different and every job needs to be priced slightly different due to the work, but helping that be easier because that's something I just find to be very challenging personally. Now, let's say you were able to fix that challenge, right? Let's say if you were able to do that tomorrow, what do you think ultimately, I mean, obviously that would solve probably, probably would get more jobs, right?

12:02More business? Is that kind of? I think it would keep me, honestly, to be honest with you, Cliff, I think it would give me more confidence in knowing I'm not undercharging. That is to me, my biggest issue is I will give a price and the customer will say, oh my gosh, yes, do it right now. And then I will, I'm happy, they're happy for the price. But I'm also, then in my mind, I don't have somebody else to really check on nowadays to see what they're charging or what the going rate is for that. So I would say that just more confidence in my price. I try to be extremely competitive and I just want to make sure I'm not being too competitive.

12:40You know, I never want to undersell myself. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So, you know, let's say if you were able to do that and let's say, you know, business, you know, doubled tomorrow, tripled even, would you be able to currently, would you be able to handle that? The processes and kind of what you have in place right now or would you need to hire some techs? Man, I would have to hire some techs and that's something I've been thinking and talking about a lot and trying to game plan. And I've actually met with other business owners recently for coffee and stuff. And I've tried to pick their brains, you know, and company.

13:13I met with a coffee shop owner that owns a restoration company. And I talked to them about, you know, when was the right time to hire? You know, when is that time? And the general consensus I get is there is never a perfect time. You just kind of got to go for it. And so I'm already on the border of it now. And I think if our business doubled tomorrow, obviously, that would be gung-ho. First thing I would do is try to find somebody I could hire and ride with and train the right way and work with them so then they could help run calls and we could help get more calls in a day. Now, what is something people underestimate about owning a plumbing company, would you say?

13:55The ability to help people out. I think it's very nice to be able to price a little more affordably as a small business for those customers, specifically the ones that really need it. It feels really good. I had the honor of doing some work for a community ministry, like a kitchen pantry for them. And it felt really good making that connection and being able to extend my services to them and other people like that. other folks like that, I'm always looking to help out and try to aid when I can and taking phone calls for people, FaceTimes for people, and just helping out when I can. It's not always about making that dollar.

14:41I really do try to help people in the plumbing realm, even if it's not showing up and making some money. Yeah. Okay. Now, what's the one plumbing issue you see all the time that makes you think, you know, this could have been prevented if you had called six months. I would say anytime you have a water leak and people let it go. I had one yesterday, the customer, it was a kitchen faucet and it's been leaking for eight months and the cabinets rotted out underneath. And what should be a 30 minute job was a two and a half hour job because the bolts are rusted underneath. Now the faucet won't come free.

15:18It's rusted to the, to the sink. So then when you're cutting it free, it's breaking the sink apart and it just opens up a whole new can of worms. And so I would say anytime you have a water leak anywhere and you let it go, it is going to rust and just cause more and more issues. Yeah, big mess. That's right. And be really expensive. And if you just got to get it fixed initially, right? That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And again, with my business, I really, I think people have anxiety calling a plumber. You know, they think they're going to spend an arm and a leg. I have anxiety calling a mechanic, you know, because I'm not very knowledgeable in card work, you know, and that's just, that's a stigma I want to try to get rid of or try to help people with.

16:03You know, I don't want them to think, I'm going to call George. It's going to be$80. You know, I want them to think, let me call George and let's see what we can do. Now you don't have to get specific Because if you don't want to But what's the craziest thing You've ever pulled out of a drain Or discovered in a home I would say I pulled out a four foot long Like root out of a drain line They had a clog for years That they just let go And it was a tree root That broke into the drain And that's the perfect spot For roots to grow They got food, water Everything they need and that root took up the entire it was the shape of the pipe all the way down the line i pulled it out and i posed next to it next to it i held it up next to next to me it was like a big old fish i caught i was trying to pretend that was probably one of the craziest things and just children's toys out the middle of the toilet little top of trucks yeah okay i'm sure you have a do you have a picture of that on instagram or something i got it on my phone i got it on my phone Oh, you never posted it?

17:10No, I never posted it. Okay. Now, Jordan, I know you built your reputation around honesty. Have you ever walked into a house and told a customer, you don't need the expensive repair another company recommended? Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. A lot of times, multiple times. as I kind of touched on earlier with that flat rate pricing that larger companies will operate off of that kind of I think gets technicians into a pickle where again I'm not trying to say they're looking at somebody and just lying to their face but I think with that flat rate pricing they're doing a lot more work than say needs to be done or maybe less maybe again they're just trying to do the most affordable flat rate price they can and get out of there.

17:59So I would say multiple occasions, yes, I've been called. There's so many examples I can think of between, hey, I was quoted on a new water heater and really, honestly, the basement just flooded and it got the burner assembly wet and the gas water heater and I took it apart and it air dried and we put it back and And that was five years ago. You know, and it's been lasted to this day. So I always have the fix first mentality, never replace. You know, never replace. I always want to fix it first. Nice, nice. Now, what has had to change about you personally to become a business owner instead of just a great plumber, would you say?

18:40I would say, Cliff, honestly, taking my emotion out of it again. And I guess I don't know if ego is the right word, but ego, you know, I take a lot of pride in all these jobs. And again, if something doesn't go right or if something's taking longer than expected, it really does bother me. And it really does affect me. So learning to shut that off, you know, at some point at the night to stop talking and thinking about plumbing and just enjoy everything else. I think that's been kind of my biggest challenge and something that I feel like I've grown and have gotten a lot better at through this year and a half.

19:21This, you know, and then this next question might be hypothetical or maybe you've done it before. But let's say if someone shadowed you around, let's say followed you around and kind of watched you, watched everything you did for an entire week. What do you think would surprise them the most about how you operate your plumbing? We don't take breaks. so it's really nine to eight to six i don't really stop you know i've gotten pretty good at i'll eat something in the morning and i just drink water through the day and it's go go go it's very fast paced it is not something that we can slow down on and just kind of take our time call to call and i think that would kind of stick with somebody the most is how much quicker you got to move than you think you do in a thoughtful way, you know, in a thoughtful way, not just running around, breaking things, throwing things around, but working efficiently.

20:15Now, at what point did you realize, you know, this just, this wasn't just a job anymore. It was becoming a real business. So a few years ago, my cousin moved from Maryland down to South Carolina and him and I tried to, we started a small market. I've always, I'll back up. My dad has always been creating advertisements and animations. So I kind of grew up around that. He owned his own business. He just did different advertisements for different companies. And so I witnessed that and I saw that. And I've always loved video editing and videography. And I had YouTube channels playing video games, all the things you can do.

20:54And I really thought that was my dream of, you know, I really want to do media and marketing, advertising. And so my cousin moved. I quit. I, I worked out with my boss at the time. I worked Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sundays at my plumbing company that I worked at. And then Monday, Tuesday, Wednesdays, I would work with my cousin Bryce doing this marketing company. We kind of started it's farness media. We got it. So it was about six months of that. And honestly, it just kind kind of clicked to me that I love this as a hobby, but I love grinding out plumbing. And I don't want to grind out something I like just as a hobby.

21:39And I tried to force myself. I really did. And it just did not keep my attention. And nothing else did. I told myself I really just wanted to try as many things as I could. You know, I served food, I, I, all the things, drive, delivery driver, landscaping multiple times, all, all the deal. And I just have multiply, multiple times I've found myself coming back to plumbing and having a renewed passion for it and appreciation for it. So I heard gaming because you're a gamer. What's your, what's your favorite game? Oh man, honestly, I just got into racing. I got a steering wheel with the force feedback and, and the pedals and everything like that.

22:22So, man, I got to hit you with NASCAR 25 right now. Okay. I'm in South Carolina. I got to stay true to it. Yeah. You know, raise hell, praise Dale. I love, I've been loving NASCAR recently. I love it. That and Minecraft. I grew up on Minecraft. So love playing that as well. That's awesome. That's awesome. Now, what would you say separates a true master plumber for someone who simply learned enough to get by? What did you say?

22:54I think those long diagnostic days of, hey, I've got this intermittent issue that's going on, or I have this small amount of moisture in the ceiling, really small off-putting issues that aren't, oh yeah, your line's leaking, or oh yeah, your drain's leaking, something where it's, I don't know, the one that sticks to my mind the most is I was called out to a water leak, and they had water running down their wall. And I knew to just kind of put my ear to it and listen for it. We turned everything off. We turned the breaker off in the unit and we cut the wall open. And miraculously enough, we just knew to trace the water lines down a certain way.

23:37And I found it in between two studs. It was just leaking inside the stud. You can never see it. You couldn't really hear it. And it was masking itself through the rest of the wall. So experience like that of diagnosing odd one-off problems and retaining that knowledge for the next weird call you have, I think is something that really separates an early on technician from a master plumber slash business owner. So George, there are a lot of plumbers in the upstate, obviously. Why do you think your customers keep calling us for earnest plumbing instead of trying something new? What kind of differentiates you from the competition out there?

24:15Well, besides the honest pricing that we've talked about and being upfront with the issues and what really needs to be done. The other unique thing is my wife, Abby, works alongside with me almost every day. So a lot of times the customers will call the phone and they will get her on the phone and then we'll pull up the day of and it's her and I getting out of the van and we sell the job and we do the work. So we never have a middleman. There's never anybody in between right now that somebody's calling that they just can't get a hold of anymore, or it's somebody new showing up, they are talking to who is doing the work.

24:48And I think, you know, working with, I guess, working with a woman working with Abby, at least my wife, you know, she is very tedious with the things I may not catch all the time. So I think we do a lot of undermount kitchen sink replacements, and it takes a lot of tedious siliconing, and you've got to keep on doing it. And you got to make sure it doesn't mix onto the the new stainless steel sink in it, but it's got to be in the countertop and it's just, it is aggravating. And I will do that big grunt work of getting the sink mounted. And when I'm ready to tap out, she's right there. She gets in and she does all that tedious work.

25:26And people have told us that is something that sticks with them and that they will call us back for because it's, it's unique. By the grace of God, we never fight working together, which is just crazy and a lot of people ask and I think that is something really cool and unique as you mentioned there's a lot of plumbing companies around right now and that is our way to be different and stand out in a way that feels good to us and naturalist she wants to be there nice nice that's awesome that's a real blessing to have that it is man it is yeah yeah all right so we're gonna head to what's called the quickfire round so how this works is I'm going to give you one word and I just want you to tell me the first thing that comes to your mind.

26:09Your answer doesn't have to be one word. It just needs to be the first thing that comes to your mind. And then kind of give me like a small paragraph on why you chose that. Okay. All right. First word is trust. Abby, my wife. I trust her with everything, obviously. She's awesome. She's the best. emergency calls dreading it's usually a sewer backup a lot of times if there's a water leak people will turn off the water and wait till the morning because they don't want to pay that emergency bill but my goodness if it's a sewer clog and they're still trying to flush it and use it and fix it it's still backing up out of their tub or their toilet and they are freaking out and it is messy and it is dark and it is dirty.