Reputation, Reliability, and Retirement Plans: A Different Kind of Painting Business with Jeremy Gunn

0:02Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of the Epic Entrepreneurs podcast where we are all about helping business owners just like you achieve success. So we don't do fancy smancy. We don't do flashing lights. We don't do a lot of things that a lot of podcasts will do. These are just real stories about real people and their entrepreneurial and business experiences. We go into their wins, their challenges, and their learnings. So we hope you enjoy it.

0:38hey there and welcome to this week's episode of epic entrepreneurs i'm super pumped uh i've got a friend on the line today which is kind of cool uh we've known each other for a little while we were actually at a conference together but before we get to my friend i want to tell you a little bit about and remind you we've got the Asheville Business Summit coming up September 23rd. It's time to get your tickets. We're past Labor Day. It's time. I know you're last minute people. Get your tickets now. It's going to be amazing. We've got nine amazing speakers. We're talking about how to take the events of Hurricane Alina and make it a catalyst to explode our business community here in Western North Carolina.

1:21Now, I'm super pumped. Today, I've got my friend Jeremy Gunn from JBG Painting out there in Wilmington, North Carolina. So welcome. Tell us a little bit about you, your business, how you got here, all that stuff. Oh, I appreciate it, Bill. It was a nice surprise popping up and seeing you on the other side of the screen. So yeah, the quick snapshot, I guess the Cliff Notes version, how JBG got started. We've been in business about four and a half years now. Started off just kind of as an experiment. I didn't want to work for anybody anymore. So I started an LLC and decided to just try to go out and paint.

2:04My background is in the restoration industry. I started there just cleaning carpets and hanging drywall and worked my way through administrative duties and estimating and dealing with adjusters and customers on the front and forefront. So my customer service level has always been elevated. I've always found satisfaction in helping others also. So once we moved here, we came from Michigan about 10 years ago. I started to help out in a company that was based out of Fayetteville. They were looking for someone to grow their coastal division. And so I took that position. It was a great move for us because we wanted to get out of the cold.

2:52And my wife was a registered nurse at the time, so she was able to pretty much relocate at any time. So we tried it out for a year and decided we really want to just lay down roots in Wilmington, love Wilmington, and bought a house. And so stayed with that company for a few years and found that the subcontractor-based customer service in the area was not good. I was no problem selling the work and handling what I had to do, but trying to find the work to get done, trying to find people to come in and do what we needed, very, very difficult. So the decision was made. Let's give it a try. Let's start our own thing and see where it goes.

3:31Figure if I just answer the phone and do a good job, maybe we'll find success. And so it just kind of started there. Ended up hiring somebody within a few short weeks of being open so that I could continue and, you know, get the appointments that were coming in and write estimates and do the things I needed to do. And I still painted for about the first year and a half of the business. But slowly have grown over the last four years to where we now have three vans, two trucks and seven people working full time. And myself and my wife now, my wife is almost full-time in the business. And so, all together, we got nine people that function and work here at JBG.

4:12So, we primarily focus on painting. That's the high-end painting. We work in people's homes. All of our people are W-2 employees. We provide Blue Cross Blue Shield and 401k benefits. We match 3%. Those are things we work for. We set goals and made them happen. So that's the cliff notes, the stop and start version. Yeah, that's a great story. I mean, I know, for example, like in health benefits, I mean, very few businesses with less than 10 employees are able to do that and match the 401k. So well done on setting your goals in there. Let me ask you a couple of things. it's different working for yourself and working for someone else when you took the leap.

5:06So what would you do differently if you had to start over? You know, everything I've done has got me to what I'm doing now. I think that one good thing I started doing right out of the gate is actually working with a business coach. We started off in like a group coaching format. I had an opportunity to do a session. It was a 30 day called 30X. Kind of opened my eyes a little bit, made me ask some new questions. I think that the timing of that was perfect for me. I've always been somebody who I'm not really set in my ways. I'm always open to something new. So I went to this little conference, little meeting thing to just find out what this was about.

5:59it because everything was still pretty new at the time and, um, learned about this and participated in it. So it was free. It was what was so great about it. I was like, well, sure. What can I, what can I lose? And so I stuck with it and then, um, got involved in the, in some group coaching. And so it gave me the ability to listen to other business owners, round table ideas, and ask questions that I didn't even really know that I had. So that timing of that was great. The, as far as what I would do different, honestly, everything I've learned is given me the tools to do what I do every day. So I'm kind of glad I've done what I've done.

6:35I've made the mistakes that I've made and then learn from them. So I can't say I'd do anything different. Yeah, no, I love it. By the way, he works with my friend, Reggie, who is part of our Action Coach community. And so, yeah, I love that. I love it all. Yeah, this was not planned. This was not by design. I didn't realize this was going to be anything with Action Coach. It was pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, we actually were at a conference, and we'll talk about that a little bit later together. I want to get your take on the conference. But yeah, so speaking of which, now you have, you wouldn't change anything, it doesn't sound like, because you have to go through the learnings, but there have been some learnings.

7:11So what are maybe one or two of the bigger learnings that you've gotten along the way? One of the biggest things is really um, qualify your customers. Um, don't just take anything and everything that you possibly can. When you get started. Yeah. I mean, it's almost like, oh my gosh, I got to fill my pipeline. I got to get the work. I got to find people that are going to hire me. And so, you know, in the beginning, definitely there are some things that I, that I did and took and took on that, um, probably underbid myself. Um, but again, all these things are learning curve, you know, processes. is, um, if you don't learn from what you do, and I still learn, I recently just learned a harsh lesson from a customer that I had, really, really tough customer I had recently that, um, looking for red flags and, and qualifying those people that you're going to work with, um, putting your people and, you know, setting them, them up for success.

8:06You know, the bigger we've gotten, uh, you know, I got to look at these jobs as okay. Who's, what components are, are going to fit right with the people that I have, who am I going to put on this job? You You know, it's these things as you as you continue to grow, there's there's growing pains. You get comfortable and then you got to get yourself uncomfortable again. So that's really that's really it. That's long and short of it. I had to what's what's I have to be careful of is if I've got someone and this happens now a lot more than not, is if I've got somebody who's brand new in business and they want some advice, I can't just open the fire hose.

8:43I got to listen to where they're at and then I might suggest some things. But a lot of times I will. Two things I always suggest is get involved with your local chamber of commerce to get you around some other businesses and business owners and professionals and get involved and tap into some business coaching. You don't have to go full blast and do one-to-one coaching, but tap into it a little bit. Learn about it because that's something that you have the ability to get yourself around other people who have made mistakes that you don't know you're going to make yet. Yeah, it's good. And it's also good to have that outside perspective, which is out there.

9:22So what are some common misconceptions about running a business? Well, everybody thinks that you're just sitting on a pile of money. it's the customers, it's the employees, it's the people you interact with who are employed other places. They think, well, you've got a business, you're all set. You make all this money. And the kind of the common joke I might say to the right people as well, you know, I get to see a lot of money. I just don't get to have any of it. I get to see it come and go. But yeah, I mean, our business does a lot of volume, but with that, there's a ton of overhead. People don't realize what that costs, what it takes to insure your vehicles, to insure your people.

10:06I carry full general liability and workers comp. Numbers like that, if you tell that to the typical individual who's going to work Monday through Friday, they can't even wrap their head around it. So I don't even have that conversation with people. But the misconception is that, you know, if you're billing out for a job, chances, you know, and that customer is holding up money or doing something like that, that the small business owner really relies on you paying your bills and you got to, they need that because they got to pay payroll. They got to do that. So they don't think that you're just, people just think you just, you're all set.

10:40You got your business. What's the, what's the problem? You know? Yeah, I always say it's kind of like they forget that they actually have expenses even on their own house. Yeah. And, you know, like in your daily living, you have utilities, you have insurance, you have cars, you have, I mean, it's all the same stuff in a business. It's just bigger. Way bigger, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, and sometimes it's, yeah, it's interesting. So what do you attribute your growth to? well definitely just passion for the the i spent my whole life working and analyzing where i would work um as i grew i i i really liked to dissect the things that it took to to make it work when i was in the restoration industry i was so fortunate to really just start from the ground up and be with a company that grew and then get involved in full general management and see numbers and really get my head around, okay, wow, so there's this much coming in and this much going out and this is what it takes.

11:50And so I got an idea until I really got on the forefront and started my own thing. I really, truly didn't understand until it's your own money. You really don't know. Um, but I think that the growth itself is just sort of based on always being ready to, to push forward. Um, when the, uh, the question was posed during, I think one of the 30 X sessions, it was one of the very first ones I think is when are you going to be finished with your business? I never thought about that. Um, it was a, it was an amazing question to like ask myself because at the time I was painting and I'm thinking, okay, I'm earning a paycheck.

12:32I'm going to pay for my van. I'm going to do these different things I'm doing. I'm going to hire somebody new, but I never really planned on not doing it. I always just planned on, okay, I just don't have to work for somebody else. When I heard that question, it kind of made me think to myself, okay, well, that's a different way to look at this. I'm going to build something to sell. I'm going to build something to finish, to walk away from, to step away from. I think once I heard that, I kind of changed my mindset. So my growth trajectory changed. I tried to figure out how to have things happen without me always having my hands on them.

13:10And so starting to build the systems and starting to do the things that I needed to do. And that's, you know, more involvement in coaching, more involvement in other businesses, looking at other businesses who are doing huge volume, have lots of employees. What is it you're doing? Asking the questions. So constantly learning, constantly asking questions and constantly re-systemizing what you do. Yeah, no, I love that. I love that. So talk a little bit about balancing. I mean, businesses, when you first go into it, it's a kind of all the time thing. How do you balance the personal life with the business life?

13:45I'm probably an odd duck. um coming from the restoration industry i spent 20 almost 20 years in that industry where you're always on call um the money is in the after hours stuff so if you work for the right companies you can um have a very i had a very successful career you know financially it was phenomenal we we live very comfortably with my wife as an rn and myself in this business but it took having the phone, you know, being ready. So my wife and I might be out and about getting ready to go shopping or go to dinner or go do something and my phone's going to ring and I just U-turn and go to work.

14:26Um, I have a built-in sense of urgency because of doing that for so long. So I'm probably different than some people. I'm, I'm, I'm okay to keep more in the work side. So I pushed a lot more in it. Um, uh, as far as, you know, the balance, I mean, honestly, I get enjoyment out of going to networking events and being around other people and growing my business. I'm, I'm excited about it. So I spend most of my time, you know, in the, you know, working on the growth of the business and what I can do for it. Um, but over time, and I really just have kind of dedicated my schedule to try to make sure I've always got nothing going on a Saturday.

15:14Try to always make sure that my Fridays are tailored to just wrap up and come home. Um, Sundays I do my payroll, so it is what it is. But, um, yeah, I, I guess it's just, you know, I, I don't, I don't, I don't need it. Um, and luckily my wife is supportive of that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, I get it. I mean, it's, yeah, it's, I mean, I, I've asked a couple of my clients, like, what do you do for fun? And they, and a couple of them have just said, I work. Yeah. And it's, and it's okay. I mean, that's just who they are. They, I mean, they still, they still enjoy their family and everything else, but they, but they really like what they do.

15:51And so I think it's great. I think it's great. But I tailor my schedule though, through the week to do the things I want to do. If I want to go work out, I set that time to go work out. So, I mean, there is balance. I set my schedule. I do it appropriately. If my wife needs something, if I need to change something, what I've done at this point with our business is that I have gotten it so that the production pretty much goes. I'm on the front end on the sales piece and setting things up, but I have a field manager who really, and a team lead, who I really don't have to worry too much about being on site.

16:30I pop in, make sure it's good, right? Work on the business. Yeah, no, I love that. I love that. And that's a natural progression. So what qualities do you look for in employees like as ops manager? So what we do is different than probably most of the painting companies that are out there that I don't touch apartments and we don't do new construction really for that matter. We do some reconstruction. We'll do some, some renovation type stuff, but we're primarily in the higher ed market. So I need people who are absolutely reliable, can make sure they are at my facility, um, prior to our start time, which is 8am.

17:16Um, So they can get in our vehicles. It's a little different than your typical contracting setup because most people, they'll work in like a subcontracted or a 1099 format where you're told to show up at a job. They become pretty complacent. They kind of show up and come and go as they need to. I can't have that because I work for people. We work in their homes while they're there. You know, so I need people that understand that. I need people that understand the front end that it's sometimes you don't just go in and blow out all the ceilings and do all the things you're going to do on a typical paint job that you might have to tailor the job around their schedule.

17:56They might have a home office that they work in certain days of the week. So, you know, we got to make sure they're able to use their kitchen at night and sleep in their beds. So I look for people that understand that, that have a little more organizational skills, not just painting skills, not just, you know, mud work skills and things like that. You have to have some good coordinating people skills and teamwork skills. Those are primarily what I look for. I love that. Yeah, and they're out there. I mean, a lot of times we'll hear it's hard to find good help, but they're out there. You've got to work.

18:33You've got to look for them. Well, we've got to stack value for those people. The people that have those qualities aren't necessarily just looking for a wage. They are looking for a place where they've got maybe a retirement option or definitely the insurance benefits. You know, people that have families and homes and things that are, they're not just working for their beer money. You know, people that have some real things going on in their lives. Those are the people that come to JBG and they stay. And we have employee retention. I've got employees. I've got four right now that one of them has been with me three years.

19:08One of them has been with me over two. and then two of them, one of them is like a year and a half and another one is a year. And we've only been open for four and a half years. So this year, in fact, 2025, as soon as we started the Blue Cross Blue Shield, I have only had two people turn over. Yeah, no, it's just all, you're all doing the right things. Pretty solid. Yeah, yeah, you got to have retention of employees in this business. So you can, I mean, it's, I like what you're doing. and since you're high end, you've got to be high end. Yeah, you've got to be consistent. Yeah, all the end. Hey, I've got a little bit of a – my tagline is BEPIC, and it's an acronym.

19:49And so I'm going to just ask you for a couple of thoughts, like sort of a quick fire round on the five things. So the BE part of it is bring the energy. And I know you're an energetic guy, so tell me what your thoughts are on bringing energy. I got to lead by example. You know, I get excited about the opportunities and I share those opportunities with our people. We get an opportunity. We got very fortunate to be able to paint an iconic building here in Wilmington, the Bellamy Mansion. And getting our team excited about that. Hey, look, you're going to touch something that is historic. Eric, you're going to change the face of something that people come and see every single day in Wilmington.

20:36The right people get excited about that, too. Our team members are excited about that. Yeah, I love that. Because, I mean, yeah, it's one of the cool things. I mean, you don't think about like painting as being something like that. But hey, look, I painted that building. That's right. You know, I painted that house. You know, that's a, yeah, I had an architecture your client the same way. Like I designed that thing, you know, it was, you know, it's something that's going to last a long time and be out there for a while. All right. The E stands for education. What are your thoughts on education?

21:09Oh, you got to constantly be learning. Always have something in the pipeline, be reading something or listening to something or be a part of something. You know, for me, the business coaching thing is such an important piece. The ability, that's why we, That's why I ramped up into the one-to-one coaching because I got, I think, a year under my belt of group coaching and I needed more. I wanted more. I felt there was more. So you have to constantly take ownership of everything you're doing. And so learning and getting educated on those things. Yeah, well, you got to, and everybody, if you, life's congruent, right?

21:51So you got to be educated if you're going to want your people to be learning and getting better, too. So the P stands for planning. I know you got to plan well. What's your thoughts on planning? Well, yeah, that's great. That's a good question. Sometimes you can plan and it doesn't all go according to plan. Um, the, the, the, the point, the general plan, um, overall, uh, I have a certain level of revenue that I need to be bringing in each, each month in order to consider hiring another employee. I also have a certain number of jobs in a pipeline. Um, I kind of set those standards, um, so that I can help, you know, gauge a decision when I'm ready to make it that next level of, you know, okay, we're going to jump.

22:41We need more people. Okay, this is what we need to do. General planning, it's good to have your consistent meetings with your team. I have always a Friday meeting. We have our daily huddles. Those things are important because it helps the consistency through the rest of the organization with that planning. My wife and I on Fridays after the team meeting, she and I then go through our whole CRM and update that because I'm terrible with that. But she's great. So I sit down and I let her do it. That's the important stuff. I love that. I stands for inspiration. So what are your thoughts on either finding inspiration or being an inspiration or just in general?

23:28I get that from a couple different areas. is I get it from the opportunities to be around the other business professionals and listen to the people that I feel inspired by, that I listen to. Like, wow, you know, they've done these things and they've had the same problems. And that makes me feel human when it's in a situation like that to hear those things. But yet maybe they're running a 10 or a 20 or a hundred million dollar business and listening to the things that they've done. And it's like, I'm doing those things. Cool. But when it comes to giving inspiration, nothing inspires me more than a new young person, business owner, whatever, coming up to me and saying, how did you do what you've done?

24:16Or coming to, I'm a heavy hitter in the chamber of commerce. I run a 60 plus person meeting twice a month. I run it really, really tight. Everybody gets their opportunity, but like having people continue to come to that and want to be a part of that, that's incredibly inspiring. To see those people come in, everybody wants to shake their hand. Everybody wants to say hi. It's cool. It feels great to be a part of that community. I love that. Other things like that, rotary, those types of things. Yeah, no, I love it. Love it. Get involved. Be involved. Show that energy. It is an inspiration. So the last one, C, stands for commitment.

24:59So my level of commitment is first and foremost to the, any promises, anything that I make, um, on a daily basis. Um, I'm, uh, I'm sober. I'm, uh, I'm coming up on six years of. Congrats. That's awesome. Yeah. I drank every day of my life. I was, I drank daily. Um, I, I cut it out of my life entirely. So that, that's the first one. Um, every day, um, I'm committed to that and I'm an advocate for it. If somebody needs it, I'm here for them. I don't shove it down their throat. Um, but if somebody wants some help, I'm here for it. Um, but commitment to, you know, if I make a promise or if I do something for my employees, I say, I'm going to do something.

25:45I try to push for a goal or something like that. I, I stay, I stick with it, but I'm also transparent. If something's, you know, something's not right. I mean, I'm committed to making sure people, you know, I'm truthful and people understand if there's something we need to make a change with. In general, just committed to doing the right, making the right decisions when it comes time to it and thinking it through. No knee jerk reactions, you know, really, really do the right thing. Yeah, I know. I love it. Um, before I ask you the last question, I, I, we, Jeremy and I were lucky enough to hang out for three or four days in England.

26:27He made the, he made an investment to go to BizX, which, uh, there's one in Houston this year, um, coming up in October. But, um, yeah, tell me, tell us a little bit about your decision to make that investment and how was it? Tell us about it. Well, just to make the decision to go, I mean, I, I have developed a very, um, good relationship with, uh, my coach Reggie. Um, yeah, Reggie's awesome. He's, he's, uh, he's really someone in my life who I, I trust and lean on. Um, I consider him a friend. We joke, we shoot texts back and forth through the week. It's not just a, we meet and we talk about business.

27:10He's, he, we've gotten, I think, pretty close. And I look at him as a mentor. He said, I don't ask too many people for advice. Um, I, I generally can't, I, I, I kind of function at a little different level than the majority of the population. I hate to say that it may sound arrogant, but he's someone who I, I, man, he can beat the crap out of me. I need it. I want it. Um, so when he said, you should go to this, I didn't question it. I said, okay, what, what, what do we got to do? Let's plan for it. Let me, let me see what it costs. Let me go ahead, buy the ticket. Let me start the process. Um, and then, okay, cool.

27:46And it didn't take him convincing me. Um, other than just the fact that he just said, you, there's nothing like being there in person and seeing it. I, you just have to experience it. Okay. That was, that was all it took because I trust him that much. Um, so when we went, um, just the general atmosphere, um, I can't, it's like kind of the way he explained it. You have to be there to experience it. You have to see these people stand up on stage and how they tell their stories and where they've come from and where they've gone and what's to come. A lot of the big topic there this year was the AI technology.