Running A Service Business Means Learning To Pre-Qualify People Fast with Andrew Schray, AB Tree Service

0:00Everybody sees the success. We want the story behind it. This is Epic Entrepreneurs from Action Coach Business Growth Partners. My name is Cliff McRae. Each week, we sit down with business owners and leaders to uncover the decisions, setbacks, and turning points that shape their companies and the lessons you can use to grow yours. No fluff, no highlight reels, just what it really takes to build, lead, and grow a successful business. Let's get right into it.

0:45Hi, everyone. Welcome to this week's episode of Epic Entrepreneurs. I am Cliff McRae with Action Coach Business Growth Partners, where we work with local business owners to turn big ideas into real scalable growth. Today, I'm excited to be joined by Andrew Shray with AB Tree Services. Andrew, thanks for being here. How are you doing today, sir? Awesome, man. It's great to be here, man. First time being on a podcast, definitely something new, man, but very excited to be here. Yeah, yeah, we're definitely excited to have you on. So if you don't mind, let's go ahead and jump right into things. Sweet.

1:19All right. So, you know, for the audience here listening and for those who may not know it yet, you know, what is AB Tree Services? What do you provide for the community? So we're pretty much like a full-scale tree service. When it comes to anything tree-related, we got you covered. We can trim your trees, remove your trees, proper pruning, stump grinding. Like I said, anything tree-related, we got you covered. And we service really the entire United States. We've been to Texas, Florida, Arkansas, Mississippi, South Carolina. You know, we're based out of North Carolina. That's where we do majority of our work.

1:54But we're we're storm chasers. We've been to Hurricane Ian, Hurricane Matthews. I forgot what the most Hurricane Helene was the most recent one. And we're Georgia, Asheville. I mean, we were we bounce around. Now, speaking of Western North Carolina, have you been since or have you seen the recovery? Yeah, I actually. So we worked out there right when so Hurricane Helene happened. I'm not exactly sure, but let's just say it happened like in March. we were out there probably in february january february march we're out there in april so if the storm happened in march we're out there like april 1st we're kind of there after they got like majority because at first it was a rescue mission but after the rescue mission that's kind of when we went out there and helped clean up but yeah i went out there about i'll say three months ago and i saw they've made a lot of progress i mean there's still banks that are in you know travel trailers like the banks aren't open yet you know they got mobile banks that are in the parking lots where the banks used to be but so yeah they're definitely still need help they're definitely still recovering but we went out there to purchase a grapple truck from another tree company out there in Asheville about three months ago okay okay now and and who is Andrew Shray as a person who are you personally what do you have going on oh man I'm definitely an interesting person, man.

3:18I've grown up here my whole life. I was born and raised in Raleigh, North Carolina. Started my life kind of as like a, you know, a little bit of an oddball. Didn't really fit in. Didn't really, never really liked school. Growing up, you know, I was, I was always the one trying new things. I was the idealist. You know, I always had ideas. I always was getting into some type of scheme or some type of mischief throughout a lot of my childhood. And And then, you know, growing up, I really just turned into an entrepreneur, man. I always was hustling something. I started in high school selling like candies and Kool-Aid packets.

3:56And then as I got older, it kind of just turned into odd end jobs. And one day I cut a tree for a customer and it all just kind of clicked. And here we are now. Awesome. Awesome. How long have you guys been in business? I started this LLC about four years ago. and it's definitely been a been an adventure yeah yeah i'm sure you got a lot of stories so we'll definitely get into that so you know let's get more into the business side of it you know andrew what would you say is something about running your business that people think is amazing but it actually isn't when you hear it yeah everybody you know i hear must be nice a lot you know like must be nice to be able to you know be on a podcast at nine o 'clock on a tuesday You know, it must be nice to be able to go ride a four wheelers, you know, with your kid on a random Monday.

4:50Yeah, I hear that a lot. But the people don't see, you know, the long nights, the customers texting you at 10 p.m. You know, being like, hey, you know, I the project we had yesterday for tomorrow. You know, I'm actually thinking about, you know, rescheduling it like people don't see that. I mean, there's a lot of headache and heartache that goes into owning a business. and I think it really is for select people. I think owning a business isn't for the weak-hearted because it can really put an emotional and mental toll on you really quick. Now, what would you say, Andrew, was the exact moment where you realized, you know, this business could either really work or it could completely blow up in my face and I lose everything?

5:33I think for me, it was like that from the very beginning of starting this LLC. To me, it was sink or swim. It was like, you know, this is I have to make this work. This was going to be my business. This is the first time I kind of opened up my own business. And to me, you know, it was sink or swim. I either made it or I didn't. And if I didn't make it, I think I was kind of giving up on the entrepreneur, you know, pursuit of happiness. You know, I was just going to go back to working for someone. So for me, I had to make this work. There is no failing like that was to me. failing was just, you know, like not achieving my goals in life.

6:11So I had to make this work. Nice. Nice. Now, you know, what would you say was the most stressful moment you've had as a business owner? You know, like a, you know, how am I going to get through this type of moment? Probably I started this company with a partner and I think when, you know, that did not work out, I think that I was kind of I'm looking for the word I was kind of like overstimulated you know I was like holy cow you know now I gotta do everything by myself I no longer have a partner I don't know if I'm gonna be able to do all this by myself but like I said for me it was sink or swim so I I just I had to make it work with no partners and I actually I oddly enough I found another partner but I was the sole owner of the company he was just kind of like another tree service we partnered it up with.

7:03But, you know, I've learned working by yourself is honestly better. So I think everything happens for a reason. So that most stressful moment of losing a partner and having to work by myself, it definitely scared me. But I'm really glad it happened because I'm doing way better now because of it. You know, our company is doing way better now because of it. And I don't think I would ever take on another partner, but I would definitely give my guys, you know, room to improve and, you know, room to build. That's, that's always what I'm going to do before I take on another partner. I'm going to give our own guys in-house the opportunities to be, you know, small partners of the company.

7:47I love that. I love that. That's really feeding back into everybody that's kind of doing things for you every day, right? Exactly. I love that. I love that. Now, have you ever thought about quitting your business and going back to a nine to five? I know you said this, you know, sink or swim. Have you ever had, has that thought ever quashed your mind? I've said it as a joke, but no, never. I'll say at work, I'll be like, screw this guys. I'm going to go apply at McDonald's. Like, but it's, it's a joke. I know. I, I love my life. I love my job. I love the guys that I have with me right now and i would not change it for anything in life i true i tell my guys all the time i truly believe this is like the peak or highlight of our life you know being in our late 20s you know cutting trees you know early 30s cutting trees i hear a lot of older guys you know 50 60 years old that cut trees their whole life and they're like peak of my life was hanging out with the boys you know late early 30s cutting trees cracking jokes you know being ripped But, you know, all the you just kind of got to listen to what other people say and you kind of just got to enjoy life is what I'm what I'm learning.

8:58So, no, I wouldn't change this for anything, man. I love that. I love that. Now, let's get into the real nitty gritty questions, kind of the questions the audience really wants to hear. You know, let's say, you know, and this is obviously hypothetical. Let's say if you could wave a magic wand and instantly fix one part of your business tomorrow, what would that what would you fix? lead generation if i i wish i could just have like how customers can just pick out from you know 10 different contractors and if they can find what they want if they want the best person to do the best job for them leave their yard without a blade of grass missing you know not a plant touch not a blade of grass messed up you know they want to pay a premium to get that tree cut down but if someone wants to pay ten dollars in a box of crackers to get the tree cut down you know they could definitely find it because there's i think in my area i was looking there's like 170 tree companies in this area you can definitely find it i kind of wish we had the same for lead generation i wish there was just unlimited you could do as many jobs as you wanted you know there's no cap It's how much you want to do.

10:10You know, if you want to work and do, you know, five jobs a day, you can. If you want to do one job a day, you can. And it's just there. It's like unlimited amount of work. You know, that. Now, would you say it's just, is it just leads in general or is it the quality of the leads that you'd like more of? Well, I'll say like hypothetically, if I could change anything, like I wish there was just unlimited work. You know, that's unlimited work. What I would definitely change. we deal with a lot of window shopping is what we call it. Gotcha. So you have a lot of people that'll call in and try to get a quote, but they don't want to actually do the, they won't actually go through with it.

10:49Is that what you're saying? Exactly. You know, you could tell someone like, Hey, I'll do this for$25. And they're like, Oh, you know, now it's just not a great time. So, I mean, people just aren't serious. You know, they're, I think, I think also some people like to just know like, okay, this tree that's in my yard, you know it will cost me eight hundred dollars to remove it you know or fifteen hundred dollars to remove it as an example i think people like to just know and i mean it's kind of it's i guess it's cool but as a company owner i mean it's a little frustrating because you have these people that are just like pricing out trees and they'll never call you to trim it cut it down nothing they just they called you because you offer a free service like a free estimate and they kind of just like price shop for that.

11:36Yeah. I mean, it's we offer it. So, I mean, I can't be too mad about it. I understand it, but that's probably the most frustrating thing about some of the leads yet, but majority of our leads are great. Majority of our lead, like lead a word of mouth. So most majority are serious buyers. Okay. Okay. Now, what do you think is currently preventing that from getting solved? Do you think, do you think there's anything that can be done to, to get people to be a little bit more serious about, uh, about their Collins? and estimates and stuff? No, I think you as a company owner just need to learn how to do pre-qualification.

12:10You definitely just need to learn how to pre-qualify your leads. That's something Grant Cardone said. He was doing

12:20I forget what they call it. He was doing one of those talking in front of a bunch of people. They have a word for it. But he was doing one of those shows in front of a bunch of people and he had a bunch of business. A convention? A convention. Thank you. Yeah, he was having a convention and he called up like four business owners and he called their business and he asked for a price. And none of the companies that were up on stage could give him a price. I mean, but he was calling service industries, you know, like HVAC, lawn care, roofing. So, I mean, it's hard to give a price over the phone, I understand.

12:57man. But Grant Cardone said that's a huge part of prequalification. Like just shoot a price out there. Like for instance, our minimum price for tree removal and tree trimming would be, you know, X amount of dollars. You know, we, we tell customers that over the phone before we even go meet them face to face. And you'd be surprised how many people tell you like, Oh, I thought, you know, you're going to come do this for the firewood, or I thought you're going to come do this for a hundred bucks and it's just like man i got two kids at home and five guys i got more mouths to feed than i can count yeah no i get it i get it now let's get let's get back to that kind of that magic wand thing because i feel like there's a little bit more meat on that let's say if you you know let's say if tomorrow you know you were able to wave that magic wand and you were able to finally get i mean let's say you were able to quadruple the amount of qualified leads coming in.

13:52Would your business and everything you have in place be able to handle that growth as it is right now? 100%. Yeah. We have guys messaging us for work all the time. We have a full crew right now and I could build a second crew in a matter of days if we had more work coming in. A lot of guys are slow in this area because of how many companies there are. You know, there's companies that have been around for 10, 15 years that are only working, you know, No, definitely. We're structured to handle more work. I mean, we currently do about 12 jobs a week. So, I mean, we're structured currently to probably handle like another eight jobs a week.

14:33But if you doubled it and you say, you know, theoretically, we're at 24 jobs a week. Yeah, we'd probably build a second crew. We have equipment for it. We just don't have the manpower for it right now. So you would definitely need to hire a couple more techs, what you're saying? Yeah, probably two more. Two more texts. Yeah. Gotcha. Now, is there anything about you personally, like anything in your personal life or about your personality that had to change in order for your business to start to grow? Oh, yeah. A hundred percent, man. Growing up, like I said, I was kind of a schemer. You know, I was always scheming something.

15:12I was always hustling something. And when I first started Tree Service, I kind of viewed it the same way. like it was a hustle, you know, like how much can I charge for this? You know, how, how well can I do blah, blah, blah. Like I would, I would scheme a little bit. And I kind of had to unlearn that and start giving people, you know, fair prices and do an awesome service for them. Because I learned in my industry that if you just cut down a tree, leave the yard a mess, like that person's not going to call you. They're going to talk bad about you. And if anything, it's going to have the opposite effect.

15:43It's not going to have a positive effect on your business. And I learned really, really quick you know i probably learned that my first job or two you know we can't just slap these trees on the ground and go move on to the next one we have to do a quality job for these people you know leave their yard spotless and make it look like the tree was never there so i definitely learned quality over quantity and not to be so quick to finish a job you know make sure the customer's happy make sure you did exactly what they said you're they wanted you to do and that you said you're going to do. Just make sure that when you leave the job site, everyone has a great taste in your mouth.

16:21And sometimes it's frustrating because customers will want to talk to you for 30, 40 minutes and you'll have another job to do. But as long as they're happy, I feel like it's better for your business to just spend an extra 40 minutes talking to that customer. Yeah, no, I definitely agree with that. Now, Andrew, let's say if, you know, let's say if someone shadowed you kind of follows you around with a notepad and paper taking notes about everything you did for a full day or or even a full week what would you think would surprise them the most about how you operate your business i'm really hands-on i there's really not anything that our guys can do that i'm not able to do and sometimes i'll hop in there and show them that i still got it i mean i work with the guys every day you know we we're working right now i'm at the shop doing maintenance sharpening saws blowing out air filters you know checking oil topping off oil and i'm here kind of just the guys are always sending me offers like we don't need your help you know but i'm here i'm like you know what do you guys need help with and then on actual work days typically the machine operator i'm either on a machine on a stump grinder or you know make moving something around to make the job go easier i'm not one of those bosses that just sits in the truck and points and shoots.

17:40Like I'm, I'm really hands-on I'm, I'm out there. And I think that's, what's really helped my business grow is that I've, I've overseen every single like spec of this business. I'm, I'm wearing all the hats. It's very stressful. I'm trying to lose some of the hats, but right now I'm wearing all of them and I'm, I'm very hands-on with my business. Now with the, is the ultimate goal kind of to get out kind of out of the, the hands-on thing and kind of get more on the operation side of things eventually? Yeah, I need to focus more on growth and sales. I need to leave the working, the cutting, you know, the cleaning, the, maybe even the estimates up to our crew.

18:22And I need to really focus on growth. And, you know, if I'm not focusing on growth, I can be going and doing the estimates. But, you know, if I'm having meetings with, you know, general contractors or, you know, people in businesses that use trees, you know, I don't, I don't want to have to be at work like, Oh, sorry, I can't make that lunch. I want to always be able to make that lunch. And then if I don't have anything else going on, I want to be doing estimates and trying to, you know, close customers on, on projects. So yeah, it is, is a goal of mine. I'm slowly, I used to climb and clean up and do the estimates, but I haven't climbed in, oh gosh, probably like a year, year and a half.

19:07So I have not physically climbed the tree in a year, year and a half. I'm just kind of working the ground with the guys because it's, when you're climbing, it's hard to answer a phone call. And you know, all, when you're climbing, you set the pace for the whole project. So if I'm answering a phone call, you know, up in a tree, all of the guys are standing there with their, you know, thumbs in their noses. You're like, what, what you got going on, boss? It's like, hold up. You know, I'm on a phone call, but when somebody else is climbing and I have a phone call, you know, the climber still, you know, set in pace, you know, cutting down the tree while I step off to the side of the building to answer a call.

19:41So, I mean, definitely an improvement, but I feel like I can further improve on that. Okay. Now, what would you say is one thing you were doing today? that's kind of giving you like a little bit of an unfair advantage over your competitors? You did say there was quite a few out there. I think we're faster than the majority of our competitors. Like we can cut the tree down a lot faster. We can clean it up a lot faster. And, you know, we can do all of that without causing any damage to their landscape, any damage to their grass. And, you know, we're completing a job in an hour that I think is taking other companies, let's just say four.

20:21so a job that's taking one company four hours we're doing in one hour so I think that's our advantage you know I think that we charge pretty similar to our competitors I'm not trying to undercut anybody I'm not trying to be the cheapest guy I want to be fair market value you know if there's a slice of salmon for five dollars and then one for eight dollars and then one for one dollar you're probably going to look at that one salmon like what the heck is that so i definitely want to be fair market value but i want to be fast and efficient i think that's my unfair advantage against majority of the tree companies around here there's a couple that are pretty fast and you know there's a couple that are probably fat even faster than us but majority we're definitely going to be faster and more efficient than than the majority yeah now what would you say is the hardest leadership lesson you've ever had to learn while growing your team it's that that's a that's a hard one yeah no i've definitely learned a lot but i think the biggest one is it's all just stuff like everything at the end of the day is just stuff you know if a guy if a guy crashes your truck for example you know if he's okay and the truck has a huge dent in the bumper, there's no reason to lose your cool to blow up on that guy.

21:42You know, it's called an accident. He didn't purposefully, you know, run into whatever he ran into. It was an accident. But, you know, if one guy's having too many accidents, probably pull him off driving. But at the end of the day, if a guy has a small accident, you know, a small slip up, as long as he's okay, it's not a big deal. And it's all just stuff that can be replaced. And And a bumper is$200,$300. If you want a dope custom bumper, it's$1 ,000. It's all just stuff at the end of the day. And there's no reason to blow up on someone or scream at somebody or ruin the whole day over stuff. And I think that's probably one of the most valuable things I've learned as an owner.

22:23That was hard for me to learn because when stuff used to break, I would lose it. I would just lose my cool. And why is this breaking? What did y 'all do? and now it's just like, ah, it is what it is, you know, let's keep rolling, boys.

22:41Now, you know, have you ever had to make a tough call, like, you know, let's say, for example, you know, letting someone go that just wasn't a fit for the company or, you know, cutting something off or denying a job completely that ended up being the right move long term? There's been a couple instances of that man but i try not to let stuff like that i try not to look at the jobs that we've lost you know i try not to look at mistakes i've made i always try to take it as less than not a loss but there was one instance where we worked with a contractor and at the time i felt like we were being underpaid and so i kind of said something about it and you know we got we got flat out replaced they're like okay if you think you're underpaid we're just gonna replace you and And I was like, okay, that's fine.

23:26And in the grand scheme of things, I kind of wish I kept that contractor, but I'm not like tore up about it. I took it as a lesson. You know, I never, like I said, I never take anything as a loss. Everything's a lesson. Yeah, no, I like that positive mindset. All right, perfect. Let's go ahead and head to what's called the quickfire round. So how this works is I'm going to give you one word. And I just want you to tell me the first thing that comes to your mind when you hear each word in regards to running your business. And they kind of give me like a little two or three sentence blurb on why you chose that.

23:58Does that make sense? Yeah, that's cool. Cool, cool. All right, first word is success. Success is definitely driven by somebody's own work ethic. You know, if people want to be successful, but they sit on the couch all day, probably not going to be successful. You know, if you want to be successful, you got to wake up every morning. It's, you know, before the roosters crow and you got to get after it. Failure. failure similar to success you know if if you if you fail at something it's because you probably didn't try or you know because you're learning and the important thing about failures with failure and success go hand in hand so to to be successful you need to fail a couple times and the important thing is to always get up when you get knocked back down i love that burnout burnout something really easier to do as a business owner you know you can you can drive yourself mad if you want to you can schedule work seven days a week and you know estimate seven days a week if you want to you're probably gonna get burnt out after i'd say two to three weeks so it's definitely important to schedule some me time for you and your family scaling scaling is a tough one you know scaling can be done very fast.

25:16It can be done very slow, you know, and I think it's something business owners have to be careful with. If you scale too fast, you know, and you don't have the work for it, you can crash and burn. And if you scale too slow, you can remain stagnant and, you know, really never grow. So I think that's very important. Hiring. Hiring is definitely a complicated process like they say good help is hard to find but i think the hiring process is definitely important to kind of give your new probationary period competition competition is important man if there's no competition you know there'd be no one to hold you liable you know you kind of just make your own prices however you felt that day you know is your price and without competition i think everything would be really really expensive so competition's good man

26:17freedom america man freedom's important you know without freedom we probably wouldn't be on this podcast right now we probably wouldn't have the freedom to be not working right now so freedom's definitely important you know freedom to do what you want freedom you know to just be your own person. And, you know, if you don't want to work and you just want to go fish all day, go do it. You know, if you want to get a SBA loan and go start your business, go do it. So freedom is important. And the last word is leadership. Leadership. You definitely have to set a good example for those around you as a business owner.

26:55You know, if you're a business owner and you're waking up, you know, at nine o 'clock and you're but you're telling your guys they got to wake up at six, you know, you're telling you guys, hey, you know, no drinking on the weekdays or, you know, no partying on the weekdays, but the guys see you partying on the weekdays or, you know, basically not living by your words. You know, they're not leadership is not saying something, it's doing something. So it's definitely important to lead by example. Right. Perfect. I appreciate that. So with all of this talk of AI and self automation, you know, where do you think your industry is going?

27:35Where do you see your industry 10 years from now? Would you say? I don't think I can do much with my industry. I mean, they might be able to corner marketing. You know, they might be able to if you're using AI for marketing or using AI for lead generation, they might have a corner on that eventually. because I think one day people are just going to ask chat GBT everything. Like people used to ask Google everything and some still do. I think people are just going to say, chat GBT, you know, what's the best tree service in my area? And you know, that's really it. I don't think AI is ever going to come cut a tree.

28:11I don't think they can, I saw a funny meme. I don't think chat GBT can underbid a job, you know, and, and work for$4 a day. You know, I just don't think that they're going to be able to do what we do. So I'm not too worried about that. Okay. Now, where do you think your business will be by 2030? Let's say, you know, where, or where do you, you know, where do you think you'll be and where do you want to be your business to be by 2030? 2030 is only four years away. It's crazy. I was about to say four years, man. Hopefully I will be, like I said, focusing on growth and sales. my brothers will be kind of in my position right now you know maybe they'll be doing the podcast in four years doing the estimates and all you're doing is really maintaining relationships looking for new customers and they'll be kind of running the operation and i'll hopefully have the opportunity to spend more time with the kids man because i'm i wake up i wake up and leave before they're up and some days i come home before you know by the time they're asleep so i really it's important to me to spend time with my kids.

29:17And that's in four years, I see myself doing that, spending more time with my kids and working a little less. Yeah, yeah. Getting yourself a little bit of time back during the week. Yep. Yeah. All right. So I want you to be as candid and honest as you can on the answer to this next question. But Andrew, let's say, you know, a small business owner or a small entrepreneur is listening to the podcast episode today with you. And let's say they're feeling stuck or overwhelmed. you know they're just not having a great goal at 2026 i mean we're already halfway through the year here what's a piece of advice you'd want them to hear from you today go out go go out there and go after it man just go there's no good time to do it but now you know if you're scared to go get that loan if you're scared to go buy that new piece of equipment you know you're scared to go buy that new diesel truck don't be just do it learn bite off more than you can chew and learn how to chew is what i tell my guys you know if you're feeling overwhelmed good you're learning how to deal with it so just go after go out there and go after it man don't be scared okay okay i appreciate that so what's next for ab tree tree service what should people be excited about coming up in the near future?

30:34We're trying to start a crane division. So we have all the equipment when it comes to trees. We have grapple trucks, bucket trucks, you know, service trucks. We got bunk houses. When it comes to tree work, we're stacked on equipment that we do not own a crane. We're renting cranes right now. And there's nothing wrong with that. The crane guy we use is amazing. But we're just, that's our next step. We're trying to start a crane division of AB tree service so maybe next for ab tree is ab tree and crane i love that i love it i love it so would you change would you would you change the name to ab tree and tree and crane or no i'll probably open another like make a new website maybe new google landing page probably you know run it pretty all similar but yeah i'll change the name i'll keep ab tree service but i'll open up a new division you know like a b crane and rigging you know so when we would do with the crane we wouldn't only do trees you know we would probably do a little bit of everything you know lifting trust is on houses you know doing hvac you know there's my buddies i've seen them lifting mri machines into the hospitals with their cranes so i mean there's there's a lot of niches you can get into with one of those yeah i love it i love it and finally what's the best way for someone to connect with you or learn more about what you all do yeah you can look us up online abtree service nc you can also call us you know 919 746-6165 we're pretty much open book we got tiktok facebook instagram that phone number if you text your call that phone number it's pretty much open 24 7 we've had people call us at two in the morning with a tree on the house and the phone got answered.