Scaling A Painting Company Starts Behind The Scenes with Daniel Creft, R7 Painting Service

0:00Welcome to Epic Entrepreneurs. I am Cliff McRae with Action Coach Business Growth Partners. Every week, we sit down with business owners, founders, and leaders to uncover the real stories behind building a successful business. The wins, the setbacks, the lessons learned, and the strategies that help them grow. No scripts, no fluff, just honest conversations with entrepreneurs who are in the trenches every single day. Whether you are a business owner yourself, thinking about starting a business, or simply enjoy hearing how successful people think and operate, you are in the right place. Let's jump into today's episode, shall we?

0:58All right, everyone, welcome to this week's episode of Epic Entrepreneurs. I am Cliff McRae with Action Coach Business Growth Partners, where we work with local business owners to turn big ideas into real scalable growth. Today, I'm excited to be joined by Daniel Kreft with R7 Painting Service. Daniel, how are you doing today? So far, so good. Thanks for asking, Cliff. How are you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just trying to stay dry out there. You know, we're getting this downpour range. So just happy to have you here. And so if you don't mind, let's go ahead and jump right into things. All right. All right.

1:29So for those of you who may not know it yet, you know, what is R7 Painting Service and what do you provide for the community? Well, R7 Painting Services, it's my company. We offer interior, exterior painting, drywall repair and wallpaper removal, wallpaper application, popcorn, ceiling removal and a bunch of other painting related services, home painting specifically. I mean, we do some commercial stuff. It's mostly residential repainting and deck staining, etc. Okay, and who is Daniel Kreft as a person? What do you have going on personally? I am a father of four. I'm born and raised in North Carolina.

2:15I grew up in High Point. I've been in Asheville since 2007. Yeah, and I guess my, you know, my main interests are just like hiking and I don't do a lot. As I said, I'm a father. I'm a father of four. So that's most of my energy is just, you know, providing for my family. And, you know, just my main intention is just to be a good employer, offer a good service to the community and just, you know, bring out the best in myself and those around me. Nice, nice, nice. Now, let's go ahead and get right into the business side of things. You know, what would you say is something about running your business that people think is amazing, but it's actually not?

3:05Let's see. Well, not amazing. He's like, man, which one should I pick? Yeah, I mean, business itself is just really challenging. It's, you know, people see a finished product and it really takes a lot for us to coordinate everything and to keep jobs coming in and, you know, get ourselves there and do everything that we do. but you know which part is not amazing i guess it's just the behind the scenes part of it it's it's it's it's it's like it's very necessary it's not so fun not so cool but it has to be done because that's what you know the wheels are turning to make it you know what everybody sees it's like that's the presentation but this the things that go on behind the scenes are really the the hardest part so you're saying kind of the the operational side yes yeah not just the actual painting itself right correct yeah the the painting part is i won't say the least of it but it's like you know it's it's like the easiest part it takes the technical skill but the the harder part is really just marketing and hiring and doing the outreach and keeping track of everything and all that kind of stuff.

4:34That's really the challenging, more difficult part. I guess it just depends on your personality type. But for a person like me, that's the least glamorous part of it because I started out as a painter. I didn't start out as a business person. And I just, you know, got into the construction industry and then eventually ended up owning my own business. And so I transitioned from being like a laborer to being a business owner. So the labor part is easy, but the admin part is really more difficult. Yeah. Now, Danny, what would you say was the exact moment where you realized, you know, this business could either really work or it could completely blow up in your face and you lose everything?

5:17Well, I still have those moments every so often, to be honest. But yeah, I would say 2024 was, you know, like I said, I've been on my own pretty much since 2018. I've had a helper here and there. But there was a period where I decided to join a painting business owner community, which offers coaching and other services to help us on the business side of things. And that year, 2024, had been the busiest year for me to date, working on my own. And I came across this community and said they had a pretty good guarantee. It was like, you know, if they don't deliver a certain amount of dollars per, you know, the first three months or something like that, then you get your money back.

6:12So I was like, well, hey, if it's money back guarantee, then I got really nothing to lose and everything to gain. And so I joined it and business really for it was the summer. It was like July, maybe June, July. And that usually is the busiest time for me. But that year I had like a really low, a really slow period in the busiest part of the year. And it was kind of scary. So I joined this community anyway. And I learned, you know, a lot in a short amount of time as far as what the potential is, you know, because at that point in my history as a business owner, I had been the business. Didn't really like have workers and stuff like that.

6:55It was just everything is done by me. and, you know, learning what I learned in that short space of time when I joined the community, it was an eye-opener that, yeah, I could be, I don't have to be on job sites all day, every day, and I can have workers doing this for me, and I can hire as many crews as I can manage and make a lot more money, and, you know, it just seemed a lot more appealing than what I had been used to, which was having a pretty low ceiling because as a painter, there's only so many houses you can paint in a week, in a month, in a year. And there's only so much you can charge to do that.

7:34So it really opened my eyes to the fact that, yeah, there's a lot more out there for me. And at the same time, I'm having this revelation. It's like the slowest month of the year in the busy season. And it was really scary. So it was kind of like a make or break thing. And And a little time passed, things picked back up. You know, eventually we had the hurricane that year, Hurricane Helene, and that was a pretty crushing blow to the community. But for a painter, for anybody in the construction industry, it was kind of like a gold rush in a kind of way. I mean, and, you know, obviously we're not like it wasn't like a happy period and everybody's like, yeah, let's get this money.

8:16But we did have to come to the rescue for the community and do the things that we had to do to help everybody recover. But just so happens we had to get paid for it. So, yeah, it's like that was when my business took off and propelled me to the next level. Eventually, I shortly after hired my first full time employees. And within a couple of months, I was no longer painting and have been kind of more on the business owner side of it since then. So I think that that answers your question. Yeah. Yeah. No, it does. It does really well. Appreciate that. So do you do you still currently use that business coaching company?

9:00I do. Yeah. It's called Painter Growth. and I am I've been a member of it well funny enough that time when I joined in the middle of the summer because it was so slow I wasn't able to stay in the community because the price they the way they had the payment plan at that point was a bit harder and I wasn't able to keep up with it because it kind of was a rough period for me financially but then later on that year in like December, which is, you know, after the hurricane, after I've already like gotten some much bigger projects, like, you know, full interior repaints because people's houses had been crushed by trees.

9:38So it would, these are jobs that would have taken me like a lot, a lot longer to do than probably is really reasonable for a company. So I had to hire and I got back into the community. And at that point, and that's, that's when I stayed in the first, the first go around I was maybe like six weeks but then when I joined in December I've been in there since so December of 2024 until now I'm still currently in there yeah and it's really that's been the that's been what's helped me to achieve you know what I've achieved since then I still have a long way to go in my opinion but I've come a long way since then for sure okay so now daniel if you could weave a magic wand and instantly fix one part of your business tomorrow what would that part of your business be magic wand let's see kind of where is your weakness would you say well i guess it would just be i would like to have a little bit more help on the management side like a production manager I'm working towards that.

10:51But if we're waving magic wands and making things happen immediately, that would be it. Because I recently hired a salesperson who, you know, from like for the past year and a half, that's the main thing I've been doing in the business is estimating to keep everybody busy and to keep, you know, the income coming in. And yeah, so the salesperson is going to take that off my plate and free up a lot of my time. And when that happens, I'm going to focus more on managing the actual painting more. I mean, I've been managing it over the year, the past year and a half. I've been managing it, but it's only so much time in a day, and I can only spread myself so thin.

11:37So it's kind of been like my attention has been focused on estimating. So a production manager would be able to be more dedicated to the job sites. And making sure that the company's standards are upheld, you know, and also like, you know, monitoring the behavior of the workers and stuff like that, which we don't really have too many problems. But, you know, obviously you could have a lot more control if you have someone there specifically for managing the job site. You know, so, yeah, that would be that would take us to the next level. Someone who's just there to manage jobs and make sure materials and tools are in place and, you know, everybody showing up on time and, you know, staying on code while they're there.

12:25Yeah, that would be that would be a game changer for us. Now, what do you think is currently preventing you from getting that solved, getting that production manager? Oh, well, I wouldn't say anything's really preventing. It's just it takes time, I guess, to like, you know, I just hired a salesperson. He started on Monday of the last week and I'm training him. So if I couldn't hire a production manager at the same time because I wouldn't be able to train him or her properly. So it's just a matter of getting this salesperson good, like where I can, you know, let him go and do his own thing. And then I would have time to focus on production.

13:10Then I can eventually hire the production manager. So it's not really anything. The only thing I guess the only bottleneck is just my time. If I had a clone that could train the production manager at the same time, then we'd be good to go. Okay, gotcha, gotcha. Now, is there anything about you personally that had to change in order for your business to grow and scale? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, the level of organization and just my understanding of business in general. Like I didn't go to school for business management or anything like that. Like I said, I started out as like a laborer in the construction industry.

13:53I started out working for my best friend who owns now it's his company builds custom homes and does, you know, remodels and stuff like that. But when I first started working for him, we were doing a lot of shop work like carpentry. So I was, you know, coming on an entry level, doing a lot of sanding and staining wood and sealing wood and stuff like that. Minimal carpentry. So, you know, that's where I got started in like finishing, which, you know, similar to painting, staining. And it's all kind of in the same line of work. But over the years, it developed into a building company and I got to kind of see construction sites and understand the flow of, you know, building a house from foundation to completed.

14:38completed. And, you know, I did a lot of different types of tasks while I was there. And, you know, eventually I quit working for him. And that's when I became a painter. I mean, I did some painting for him as well towards the latter part of the time I was working for him. But yeah, once I quit working for him, it's like I was, I owned a job, so to speak. Like I wasn't like an entrepreneur and a sense of having like workers taking care of this and delegating responsibility. It was all on me. And it was that it was that way for the first, you know, five years of my existence. Five. Yeah. I mean, like I said, I had a helper or two, but that's not exactly the same as like having a crew who does all of the work and I'm out doing something else.

15:24So, yeah, I didn't really know the business side at all. And so the change in me has been transitioning from being like a painter to a painting business owner, which that entails a whole lot of, you know, like learning how to recruit, how to interview, you know, how to find the right people, you know, like becoming more, I've become more professional. professional as far as like my presentation I used to just do quotes like you know I'd go look at the job and then I'd tell them hey I'll send you a quote later and then I would just text message them a price and you know it's like now I have a CRM that you know keeps all my contacts and I send a professional proposal with the full scope of work and you know I am able to delegate tasks it's not like it's all on me.

16:19I have to be a lot more organized, you know, to, because it's like, again, it's, it's not just me anymore where everything is just in my head and all I have to be responsible for is myself. It's like, I have to think about every person within my business. Do they have what they need and do they have direction? And, you know, have I given them instruction? Are they clear on their, their objectives for the day, for the week, for the month, for the quarter, whatever? So it just requires a lot more thinking, you know, about others and being, you know, I'm a lot more responsible, I guess, you know, in that sense that these people are dependent on me for their living expenses and, you know, their daily work.

17:07So it just requires me to be a lot sharper and a lot more goal oriented. And yeah, I mean, everything about me changed when it comes to work. It's like I completely did a, you know, total turnaround from, you know, just painting to keeping people employed and, you know, being a good employer. now daniela you know let's say if someone shadowed you you know kind of followed you around and shadowed you for a full day or let's say even a full week what would you say would surprise them the most about how you operate your company let's see that's a good question i don't know because i don't know how other people do it but surprise well let's see maybe it might be surprising how how i do my estimates how i you know show up we you know we we we contact them once we get their info because we have door-to-door marketers who go out in in town and knock on on you know doors and neighborhoods who generate estimates and And we get in touch with them, get a little information.

18:23Then I show up. And while I'm there, we do a walk around and they show me everything. And then I take just a few minutes and put the proposal together right there for them on site. And then I come and knock on the door and present it as opposed to like taking, you know, a couple of days or a week or something like that and then sending them something randomly. I do it all on site. And that way, you know, as a salesperson, I can get hopefully a yes or no answer at that point and possibly book the job and get them on the schedule, which, you know, I don't know if everybody does it like that. I think most people just, you know, based on my communication with clients, a lot of times when they say they're getting multiple quotes, they're like, well, we're waiting on the guy to send over this quote.

19:11So, you know, I don't have that low period. And, you know, it's for me. I think that way is a lot more streamlined because it's like. rather than me, you know, taking however long to get back to the person and they possibly finding someone else in the meantime. I give them, I give them a definite price right then and there with a full scope of work. And yeah, it's just, it takes a bit more time, you know, but it's a lot more worthwhile because it's, it allows for question and answer. It allows them to give me feedback as you know get you know i can sort everything out right there on the spot as opposed to going back and forth in emails over a span of weeks and you know yeah so i don't know if that would be surprising it's hard for me to say because i don't know how other people operated their painting companies have never worked for anyone else's but i know for my from my own experience the way i used to do things was definitely like i'll see it and then i'll give you a quote in a little as soon as possible kind of thing.

20:26Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Now, what would you say is one thing you're doing with your company today that's giving you kind of an unfair advantage over your competitors? Probably the door-to-door marketing. Honestly, I'm not. Yeah, that is pretty big. I haven't heard that one yet, the door-to-door marketing. Not in, you know, at least in this day and age. I think I've heard that, you know, maybe 10 years ago, 20 years ago, but not so much now. Do they have a lot of success with door-to-door marketing? They are the main driving force of business. Most of our jobs come from door-to-door marketers.

21:02I mean, we do Instagram and Facebook ads and a few other different types of marketing techniques, but the door-to-door definitely leads in the amount of estimates that it provides for us. And so, you know, most companies, well, I don't know. I don't know about most companies. I know a lot of people rely on word of mouth. So that's really unreliable though, you know, because not always are people talking about painters or, you know, that's how I operated for the first period of my, you know, ownership of the business is just waiting on people to call me. But now I have a more assertive approach, whereas instead of me waiting passively, I'm sending people out.

21:51They're going out just about every day of the week and looking for the leads and scheduling the estimates for us. Like I said, I don't think many companies do that anymore. And yeah, I think that that may give us a good advantage over others and helps me to keep my team busy. Nice. Nice. Now, Daniel, what would you say is the hardest, you know, leadership lesson you've learned while trying to grow your team?

22:25leadership lesson well one thing I've learned about being a business owner is that sometimes you know in the first periods of your business it may not be for everybody yeah but I'm sure I know a lot of other business owners go through this is that you you haven't figured out how to be profitable yet fully and your workers still have to get paid so as a leader you will pay everybody else and sometimes not take home anything for yourself because you care so much about making you know good on your promise to your team that you're willing to, you know, do with, without so that they can have. And, you know, as a father, this is kind of the same thing.

23:22You, you, if, if your children needed something from you and you had it to give, even if it meant you not having, you would give it to them. So, yeah, I mean, I guess it just shows that when you really are dedicated to your business and the people that you have working for you, you will stop at nothing to make sure that you provide, you know, whatever it is that you agree to provide for them. So on my end, it's I, in hiring you, take on the responsibility of making sure you're busy and making sure that you get paid. Even if that means I have to work lots of hours and still not make a dollar for the week or or whatever, it's like, yeah, you'll do that if you really are dedicated to, you know, providing what you agree to provide and, you know, making good on your promise.

24:19Love that. Yeah, I know. I love that. I love that. That shows that you actually, you care about the people that you hire and you just don't want to hire people and not have any work for them or have to, you know, make a tough call like, hey, I can't give you the work this week. I got to let you go home and then you can't pay your bills and all that good stuff. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. Mm hmm. Now. All right. Perfect. Now we're going to head into what's called the quickfire round. So how this works is I'm going to give you one word and I just want you to give me the first or tell me the first thing that comes to your mind when you hear each word in regards to running your business.

24:52And then and then, yeah, kind of give me a little blurb after you, you know, kind of choose your word, two or three sentences or a small paragraph on why you chose that. Does that make sense? You're going to you're going to say a statement. I'm going to give you a word and then a short explanation. Yeah, you got it. First word is success. Self-defined. And what I mean by that is what success looks like to you is definitely different than what success looks like to somebody else. And your definition is sufficient. Failure.

25:30Letting yourself down. And while you may let other people down in life, the biggest failure is when you're not happy with yourself because you have to live with yourself. I like that. Burnout.

25:50Entrepreneurship. Sometimes that's what it requires. You have to do what you have to do and you push yourself to the limit and beyond. Scaling. Painful. Yeah, scaling comes with a lot of lessons, sometimes really hard lessons. But, yeah, it's worth it. Hiring. Mystery. You never know. You never know. Like, you know, people interview well, but you never know what they're actually going to do until they get out there. and yeah, sometimes you're really surprised at the stark difference. Yeah. No, I always say, man, I mean, you can't read somebody off a resume, right? All the words on the screen look great, but you get them in there and then they can't do the job or they don't do it as well.

26:42They say they could, right? Absolutely. Next word is competition. Yourself. You know, you're, you should, I won't say you should, but I am my own competition. I'm just trying to be better. every day, every week, every month than I was the last period. You know, just continuous improvement. And the last word is freedom. Oh, freedom.

27:16Work. Yeah. You have to work in this day and age. You have to work to establish and maintain freedom. Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. Perfect. I appreciate you getting through that quickfire around there. So, you know, with all of this talk of AI and self-automation, you know, where do you think your industry is going? Where do you think your industry will be 10, maybe even 15 years from now? 15 years with AI, chances are there'll be a lot more robot painting machines. Like, you know, right now there's a lot of AI that you can use to automate processes in your business. The only thing that really is not automated and robot done is the painting part.

28:08But, But, I mean, I've seen videos of robots that do just about everything. So I'm sure at some point there will be robot house painters and maybe less human labor force. Okay. So you do think we'll get to a point where the robots will just do it all pretty much automated? It's possible. I don't know how much people or humans are willing to allow. but you know even if it's just on like a like a large scale manufacturing level I'm sure robots will take over you know a lot of the process but as far as like going to actual homes and painting maybe people will not allow that to be robot dominated aspect of the industry but I don't know I mean yeah you know robots can do certain things a bit more precisely.

29:01So, and more, you know, cost effectively. So yeah, it's possible. I wouldn't put it past us. Okay. Okay. Now, what do you think your particular business or franchise will be by 2030? By 2030? Let's see. 2026 now. Yeah. Yeah. Well, by that point, we should be a pretty well-oiled machine. you know with all of our systems in place you know sufficient management and you know a well-known name in the in the community as far as you know who to call when you need painting done we should have you know plenty of good relationships with builders and a really good relationship with you know common people in the community and, you know, just be a really good employer, you know, a company that people know they're going to work and make at least a living, a decent living wage.

30:10And, you know, homeowners will know that this is a company that does good work. They stand by their work and treat their, you know, the customers really well. So ultimately, you know, internally, I just want to make sure that everyone that works for R7 painting has a good experience and that on the other end, the homeowners have a really good experience as well. So, you know, I don't know how big we will grow. I don't necessarily like size of the business isn't really the biggest thing for me. more so is just efficiency and profitability and quality. Those are the things that I think are the most important.

30:59So as long as the quality of our work is consistent and consistently really good and we're efficient in our operation, we know we have the right system so that we don't have to work extra hard to do simple things. and yeah the quality the quality of our craftsmanship is always at a high standard and our workers are you know proud and happy to work for r7 they know you know they know they're not being exploited and they're appreciated and they belong to a company that values them and and you know looks out for them and is there for them when they're in need or yeah like a really human friendly company.

31:44Okay. Okay. I like that. I like that. Now, and Daniel, this is kind of, you know, I want you to be as candid as you can to the answer to one of these last questions here, but, you know, let's say a small business owner, small entrepreneurs listening to the podcast episode with you today. And let's say they're just feeling stuck or overwhelmed. They're not profitable so far in 2026. I mean, we're always almost halfway through the year now. What's a piece of advice you'd want them to hear from you today?