Ten Years, Two Markets: How Big Frog Turned Branded Apparel into a Community Growth Engine With David Riddell

0:02Hi, and welcome to this week's episode of the Epic Entrepreneurs podcast where we are all about helping business owners just like you achieve success. So we don't do fancy smancy. We don't do flashing lights. We don't do a lot of things that a lot of podcasts will do. These are just real stories about real people and their entrepreneurial and business experiences. We go into their wins, their challenges, and their learnings. So we hope you enjoy it.

0:37Hey there, everybody. Welcome to this week's episode of Epic Entrepreneurs. I am super pumped up about our guest today. But before we get that, let me introduce myself. I'm Bill Gilliland, the principal at Action Coach Business Growth Partners and one of the founders of the Asheville Business Summit. And today, I'm super pumped. I repeat guest. He's been before on the podcast. I've got David Riddell. And David, so tell us a little bit about you and your business and your company and how you serve this community. Perfect. It's great to be here. I appreciate it. So I own Big Frog Custom t-shirts in Asheville down in Arden.

1:18Quite simply, we do everything apparel with your logo on it, keeping you visible, whether it's uniforms, fundraising, networking or gifts, we can do one or we can do thousands. We also print six different ways, whereas the traditional printers will just do screen printing and embroidery. So we have a retail shop. You can come in, touch and feel, sing and dance, find the right solutions for brand style and budget, which matters. Being able to do one, being able to do the many, being able to just understand all of those things is great. December is 10 years open for us, which is a milestone in any business, but in a place that's event-based and marketing-based.

1:59We made it a year and a half through COVID when there were no events. In the trying economic times that there are, people will cut marketing first because they can't cut payroll and they can't cut rent, so they cut marketing, of which is apparel. But anywhere you go, your logo is your silent sales person. It is 100 % return on investment. So why not spend some money and give out your brand for people to wear or all of your people wear it? And that's what makes us the experts in the area. And 10 years is, again, quite the time. We're proud of that because that gives us the longevity and time served.

2:38I also have a location in Durham. I'm four hours away. So then that gives me two different markets to understand business and two sets of resources and lots of different people. And we all learn from people. So yeah, 10 years, Big Frog Custom t-shirts still rolling. Yeah, well, that's exciting. Congrats on 10 years. Let me ask you this. If you had to start from square one in business, what would you do differently? I think the two things I've always done right is people, because that's the background I came from is always I'm hiring and you can't have your own people. You can't have people exactly like you.

3:16So having a great team and leveraging the community and being more than the name on the door are staples. But if I look back, it's like take it a little slower because the biggest thing in business isn't top line and bottom line matters because that's where you make money, but cash flow matters. So how you spend it, how you hold on to it, do you have it in the crazy times? Don't over leverage yourself, pace yourself. But I mean, that's always been my biggest issue is those crazy times going, do we have what we need to get through it? But when times are great, I have a great team and I've always been a part of the community right from day one, And even before we opened, it was go out and be more than the name on the door and give back and be present and engaged.

4:07And that got us through everything. But you always need to make sure that, again, cash flow and pacing yourself, don't go too crazy. We got the second location in Durham probably a little sooner than we should have. But hindsight, foresight, and insight are everything. And if we were all perfect, then we wouldn't be having some conversations. Yeah, no, that's good. Yeah, I think that's good. I mean, yeah, you did a lot of things right. But obviously, keep an eye on cash flow. I always say cash flow is the blood of business. You don't have any blood. You can't keep going. Well, starting with our government.

4:43I mean, our government and some Fortune 500 companies might look like they have a great financial statement. But they don't have any money and they keep borrowing it, right? And you can't do that. It's like you have to be able – I've seen too many businesses go down because they had to buy equipment. Or if I get a$20 ,000 sale and I'm going to see$10 ,000 of it, but it's going to take me four months to get paid. I mean, four months rent I'm going to get in profit. But how do I cover all of that until that happens? Cash flow is king and everybody doesn't learn that quick enough. And then they run out of money even if business is going well.

5:19Yeah. Yeah. So give us, we've kind of already done that, but give us maybe one more big learning that you've had as an owner and an employer since you started. So I've been, some of my team will say I'm a salesperson. What I'm not is a cold, hard sell kind of guy and I'm never going to be. So always stay with who you are. But within that, the amount of people I've met, and if they reach out to me, then I'll follow up like crazy. but I don't think I've ever had the, I don't know, the dark side to look at somebody and go, but I've seen you for five years and now you're wearing apparel that I didn't quote.

6:00So trying to quantify that, I think it's a little bit more aggressive, not in going cold, hard sales, but asking those questions like, why not me? Why, if I did all the right things that I've known you, did you not even put me into the equation, right? So I think I've missed some opportunities in some businesses that, again, they know me. They know everything I am. I've never done anything wrong, but I've never been given the opportunity, maybe because I didn't ask, right? There's a thing that says, hey, they'll come to me or I'm doing everything right. But how about you ask a little bit more?

6:36Yeah, I like that. Yeah, I like that a lot because, yeah, I mean, people are happy. People have habits, right? I mean, they may know you, They may like you. They may trust you. And they still buy the stuff from whoever they bought it from last time. Right. And then trust and referrals. And that's great. The know, like, and trusting, I'm amazed with. But when people have never had anything, like they've never done those services. So you would think you'd go to those people that, you know, no, the internet must be cheaper. It's like somebody knew a person. I mean, right? Somebody in the – and oftentimes it might be somebody in the same business.

7:13But the person that I'm dealing with isn't the decision maker, but they didn't go. Like I didn't go to them soon enough and say, come on, pitch me, pitch me. Can you help me out? Yeah, yeah. No, it's unbelievable. Yeah, it's good. Well, yeah, you got to ask. It's a great – that's a great lesson. So what are some – what's a common misconception or misconceptions about running a business? I think everybody, like I watched a couple people, I'm a president of a business association, and I watched three businesses last year where they were all over 40, so they left their corporate America job. They came and started their business, and all three of them were doing something that they had worked for somebody.

7:57So they thought, it's easy. I know how to do it, so therefore I'll go into business. And two things went wrong. Just because you know it and you're good at it and can follow the leader doesn't mean you can do it. And then within that, you've got a couple of pain points and say, I didn't have a business plan and or a marketing plan. My sights were too high because I thought I'd make my corporate America money back. And six months later, you're going, why am I not making the 150 grand from corporate America? And then so then it became what I, what I mentioned a few minutes ago, that it becomes cashflow just because it's easy for you working for somebody and doing the task does not make you a business owner.

8:41I mean, I am not a designer nor a printer. I'm a retail corporate middle manager guy. What does that mean? I understand decision makings and all of the things in my business, the people, the workflow, the marketing, everything, keep going back to everything, people. And if my wife knows the books because that was her side and the franchise can teach us and then we can learn because in corporate America. You got to keep learning and keep pivoting and they'll keep beating you down into submission. But I could hire the people that can design because there's a bunch of great people and then we can learn everything together.

9:20But it didn't mean that I had to do exactly what I was doing. I used a skill set and then went a different direction. But if somebody's a plumber, they're great at that. Doesn't mean they can be the business owner of said task or trade. Yeah, I've seen a lot of GMs fail when they bought the business from their previous boss. It's pretty interesting. It's shocking in a lot of ways. I've seen them succeed as well, but a lot of them don't know. They just don't. When it's your own money, it's a different deal. So what are you - It's leveraging your resources, which is your people. And then they say, have the lawyer and the accountant and the business and have the Bill Gilliland's of the world, right?

10:01And we don't do it. I know how to do it. So therefore, I'll do it. I don't need a coach. I don't need an accountant. And oh, by the way, I'm great at it. But yes, some have done very, very well. And they understand leverage the community. We have, I mean, business organizations and different things. You can learn just by being engaged. Yeah, just show up. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Yeah, go to things like the Business Summit and other, any kind of educational business events, just show up. I know you go. Oh, that's seven hours, right? You walk away from there going, I've heard this all before, but maybe not the way that Murphy, which is one of the greatest in our area, it's like she says it and you just go, oh, yeah, now I get it, right?

10:41Like, Boban. Yeah, well, you know, sort of the student's ready when the teacher shows up. I mean, the teacher shows up when the student's ready. It's kind of an interesting thing. So, yeah. Hey, what do you attribute your growth to? I would say never stopping the grind is a really weird word. But I mean, my wife will keep asking, why am I? Why am I looking at the phone at 10 o 'clock on a Saturday night? That red dot that you see, I mean, back in the day, you saw the cat chasing the red dot on the wall. But I mean, that's kind of what I'm doing. It's like, well, if somebody emails me at 10 o 'clock on a Saturday, and I'm the first one to email back, maybe they won't ask for any quotes.

11:23We're on vacation, and I'm still getting up in the morning with a laptop. You could debate the other side of it and say, does Dave have any work-life balance? And okay, work is my hobby, but there is a grind that says fear of failure. Even when you're doing well, I'll stand in the store saying there's not enough boxes. And they said, but we're ahead. I said, well, then we need to get behind, right? And so there's this psychological thing that says, I don't want to lose. It's my livelihood. You can lose a house. You can lose everything you've got. You don't want to go back to work for somebody once you have a taste of doing it yourself.

11:58So there's this maniacal drive and grind with an entrepreneur, and you know that. It's like you may never make as much as you did in corporate, and you will definitely work more, but it's yours. It's all yours, and you don't want to lose it. Yeah, no, I love that. I love that. It's just the drive. So speaking of personal life, how do you balance personal life and the demands of running a business? I mean, well, it's my wife and I in the business. So it's not, I mean, we have to learn to shut it off when we're home. But what you don't want to do is come home and the rest of the family hasn't been involved with it and then download it on them.

12:39Right. So you know how to keep it separate when you're both in it. But we just pick and choose our battles. I mean, a work hard, play hard. But our play hard is play hardly. Like we like to rest when we rest and whether our vice is the beach or baseball, I mean, it's like we just know when to shut it down or take it in moderation, right? It's like as hard as we're working, some of that work is me at a chamber thing or a business thing, which is feeding my soul because it's people and learning. So somebody will go, you spent the whole day working. No, I spent the whole day learning. or, oh, you started at an eight o 'clock business meeting and you went to a famer thing till eight.

13:21I said, but half of that, is that really work? I mean, it's net work, but there's still something about it. And so I always think, I mean, mindset matters is what you'll hear coaches say and how you go about things. And the more stress you put on yourself at work, the less you could enjoy the little bit of time you have. So it's how you look at things, I believe, is still a big deal. Yeah, no, I love that. I love that. And if you're built like you and you enjoy people and networking, then it's not that much work. Yeah, it's networking, but like you said, it kind of gets you jazzed up, which is cool.

14:02There are other of us who, you know, we're like, man, I don't want to leave my office and go out and hit another networking event. But, you know, it's an interesting one. So that's leaning. But you're a great coach, but you've surrounded yourself with a couple of them that like to be extroverted, go out and get them. I mean, who do you give credit? You didn't say, yeah, I put this thing together, this great summit together. Who did you say? She did an amazing job. No, no, yeah. And look, and I've done a lot of networking, and I'm really good at it. I just don't – it's at a point. I think there are people who love it and people who don't, and I'm extroverted too.

14:41But it's an interesting thing. But there's outsourcing for there's a reason. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so then you can't go to business development. Yeah, I think you're amazing because you go to all – I mean, you're at everything. But I don't know how you do it because there's – I have three other people, and they're dividing to try to get to everything, and we don't even hit that. I don't think we go to as many as you do, so it's just pretty exciting. Let me ask you something else. Let's change the subject just a little bit. How do you – we know – I mean, you know, if you really want to learn how to network, you should emulate David.

15:13I mean, it's unbelievable. Let me ask you something. When you're looking – and this is something you're – you know, you've – like you said, you're a people person. What qualities do you look for in employees, and how do you foster a positive, productive work environment? So everybody says skill set is everything, but fit matters more. Desire matters more. There's a theory in football. If anybody remembers Jerry Rice versus Randy Moss and Jerry Rice is this little dude from the middle of nowhere, Mississippi, who didn't have the natural born talents, but outworked everybody in his hall of fame.

15:49And then Randy Moss was this natural born talent and nobody liked him and they put up with his diva self, but he was amazing, but he didn't work as hard. So when I'm interviewing, somebody will come in and they want, they're bringing their resume and all these little internships that they had done. And, and they're, um, let me, uh, let me show you my portfolio. And I don't ask them design questions because they haven't worked for the client they've worked for themselves. Right. And it's like, can you multitask? Do you have the customer service skills first? Do you have multitasking second? Can you listen to a client third?

16:29Can you use our software? And so I think they're disappointed when I'm not talking about their design, but I said, you can clearly design. We'll get there. I need a certain person. So skill set matters, or we wouldn't be talking to you, but I need to know who you are at the core. So I'm asking questions like, why do you work there? How do you like that? Why did you do this? What did you want to be. And then especially when I'm hiring, I don't know, 18 to 30-year-olds in this generation, they want to be a part of something and time off matters. We just spend time talking about my grind and we all grind, but the grind with this next generation is different.

17:10It's like they're not thinking 10 years ahead, they're thinking about Saturday. And so schedule matters, environment matters. I mean, pizza, pizza, t-shirts, tickets to something because I can only pay them so much. I can't give health insurance and everybody can't make 50 grand, but I can make them feel important. And in my world, they all want to be a designer, either owning their own business or working for some massive company, but they need the resume experience first, which I can give them. And what they don't think they need is the business experience, which I can give them more than I'm not going to give them design experience ever if they're going to get that by hands on.

17:50So feel a part of something and personality and fit matters. Because when I was working mall retail for 20 years, I could have hired the best manager in the mall. Great. You've got the skill set. I mean, you're it. Not if you can't fit the system. Not if you can't fit the vibe and the flow and the people. So I've always looked beyond the words on the page of the resume. I love it. I love that. I really love that. So what advice would you offer other business owners who are looking to grow? I would say it's a marathon, not a sprint, that it's not a get-rich-quick scheme, definitely, that you will go through every entrepreneur emotion.

18:36They've got that cycle, and I know you know it, but this upward thing. And, no, it's all over the board. I mean, they just squirrel every five minutes and every day. and how do you pivot? We don't like that word from COVID, but it is. And so you've got to go into it saying, how am I going to learn every day, leverage my resources every day, and figure out the bumps every day? But, I mean, those people, the marketing plan matters, the monetary plan and marketing plan matter, and the people around you. It's like, I don't think I would have gotten through it. I could, if we had more time, I could name, not by name, but by what they did for me, the five most influential people that I don't think they know they're the most influential people.

19:28And I, my plan is to thank them because I've made it 10 years. So they're going to know it soon if they don't already feel it or if I haven't told them. But some people that, you know, you didn't pay, they just happened to be there and they happened to teach you something or you followed their lead. And if you can recognize those people and those characteristics, but there were people that, I mean, outside of all the staff that I've had or my family or my wife, because she's in business, there are people in the network, in the community that have given me more than they will ever know. And you need those people.

20:05So that's where the getting involved and being present, right? Be interested, not interesting, You don't always have to be the life of the party. You can actually – sometimes they go hand in hand because I'm kind of energetic. But if you're there to learn and you're there to take it all in, then being engaged and interested, not being the takeover person. Yeah, I love that. I love that. Yeah, I think you can't write enough thank you notes. Yeah, and it's kind of cool. I think you have a good opportunity because you have some swag and stuff you could send people, thanking them for being a big booster for you.

20:47It's an easy thank you, and you can give them a gift that's kind of cool. We do that every year. I'll run a report in October now that will show me my biggest clients of the year and whether I make them a Tumblr or make them a personalized shirt or a gift basket. You're right. Yeah, it's like, wow. You know, it's a wow thing. I love that. What's the next big thing for Big Frog? So the biggest thing, and it's funny because there are still people that have known me for 10 years that may forget my name. So I get to be the Big Frog, but the store gets to be the Big Frog because I'm the face of it, but it's also my business.

21:23What's interesting is that as we're coming up on 10 years, our last child went away to college. So now we're empty nesters and I'm on four servant leader business boards that I'm all for or for things that I'm falling off of all four of them all at once. So by January, you go 10 years, empty nesters, no servant leadership, anything. But my heart and soul won't let me not. So I don't know what that is. What I've told everybody is if you ask somebody in the middle of September in 2024 what they were going to be doing in January, they'd have plans. and we had this storm that changed everybody's plans.

22:01And so what I'm going to do in January, I would love to answer, but I'm going to take the next 90 days and finish out all these obligations and then sit back in January and go, wow, what do we do for the next 10? What do I do to feed the soul? Because the business feeds the family and the servant leadership feeds the soul and I have to do something, teach something, I don't know. And is it another business? So I don't know. Somebody says time off. I don't know how to do that either. That ain't going to work for you, David. Correct. Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, all right. So if you're looking for somebody to help you out, a servant leader, maybe a board position, board chair, board something, or if you got an idea for David, what's the best – this is the last question – what's the best way for someone to find or get in touch with you?

22:55Well, we're easy. I mean, Big Frog is very fun, very simple, very Google-icious, right? And so, I mean, you pull up Big Frog, there is a nursery, a plant nursery, Big Frog, and I think something else. We are not Sweet Frog the Yogurt Place, but if somebody keys in Big Frog, it's right there. It's going to be Asheville at Big Frog and the website. I mean, we always say that in business. You don't need to have your phone number on your shirt anymore if you can Google pretty well. So, I mean, Big Frog custom t-shirts, Google's very well. find me. I see every email on my phone at 10 o 'clock at night saying squirrel chasing the red dot.

23:29So it's a thing. I love it. I love it. Hey, look, David, thanks. This has been excellent. This is really going to help a lot of people. I really appreciate this is a servant thing that you're doing here to help out our community. We really appreciate it. And thanks for being on the podcast again. Yeah. I always appreciate it. Good to see you. And thank you for two weeks of that. I mean, the summit again, if somebody, I mean, start planning next year. You are, but everybody else ought to think about go. Keep going to these seminars. I mean, they cost a little bit of money, but the learnings are more than you can get for the dollars.

24:02Yeah, you can't. Yeah, every time you invest. The best place to invest is to invest in yourself. Yep. So no question. No question about that. Hey, thanks for being here. Really appreciate it. Hey, and you got you out there. Until next time, all the best. Hey, thanks for listening to the Epic Entrepreneurs Podcast. Here's three things that you can do. Number one, remember to subscribe to the podcast. It takes very little effort on your part. It's going to help you and your fellow entrepreneurs. Plus, you guys know how it works. The more subscribers we get, the more cool things we can offer to you.

24:45Second, to learn more about growing your business, just download my book, The Coach Approach. It's free for you at giftfrombill.com. That's giftfrombill.com. Hey, and if you'd like more info about growing your business and what we can do to help you grow your business, send me an email directly. Just send it to williamgilliland at actioncoach.com. That's my personal email that I read. No one else reads it first. It's not screened. It's my real email. Just send it to me. I can't wait to talk to you. Hey, and until then, all the best.