EYL Ep 343 - My Crazy FBI Arrest Story That Changed Everything! | Owen Hanson

25:55But for you, that's great because I'm the house. I'm backing the bets. And I know in the end of the day, no one can beat the house, right? Vegas is beautiful. They're never going out of business. You know, you go to the wind, the Aria, the Bellagio. Beautiful, right? It's all built off of gambling money. So I know that mentality is you can't beat the house, so I can offer you a 50 % commission. So I'll say, hey, Matthew, I want you to get me 50 customers. If you get me 50 customers or more, you get 50 % commission. So if your customers lose$100 ,000 combined, you collect the money, you pay out the winners, and whatever's left over, we split it down the middle.

26:32And it's just business 101. And I know if I can do that in 50 states of the United States, my business will grow. And if I know I can go international into Mexico, Peru, Colombia, wherever it may be, we can be an international sports book. And that's what ended up happening.

26:48Owen Hanson:Do you know how many clients or countries that you're in to put some scale on that business? Yeah, you know, I was in three different continents, South America, North America, and Australia. So I was, you know, I had clients in Australia. I had customers in Mexico. I had customers in Peru. And I had all of the United States. I think I was in all 50 states. And, you know, sometimes you get one customer here, one customer there, but you're still in all these states, right? And the best people for my business was I was really good at finding the old bookmaker that was a pen and paper kind of guy, old school guy.

27:25And I would approach him and be like, listen, this is not practical. This day and age, there's a phone you can bet on or you can use the application. So I'm going to provide you an application so your customer is in New Orleans. My best customer was in New Orleans. He was a bookie, old school bookie. He was a dinosaur. Everything was by pen and paper. He had a call center where they would call in New Orleans and place the wager, and he had people working at the call center. I'm like, man, that's ridiculous. You're doing way too much work. And everything was written down, and he had to grade everything by hand.

27:54I'm like, dude, I have it figured out for you. I said, I'm going to grow your business. I said, let me handle it. And it was hard to try to teach a dinosaur, you know, new tricks, right? It's hard. They say it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. So I flew out to New Orleans, and I showed him. Look, I'm Beto Dog. This is your username for your customers. We're going to have all 50 of your customers, all 100 of your customers, whatever you have. We'll put a username and password. Whatever limit you want to give them, we'll give them a limit. You want to give them$1 ,000 each? That's great. So I would show him how to use the software, and then he'd go to his customers.

28:30And next thing you know, all his customers would be like, oh, this is awesome, right? They've never seen this. They've been placing wagers through an 800 number, and the guys are writing it down on the other end. And so now all of a sudden you've got all these customers in New Orleans betting through my app, you know, calling my 800 number that's going back to my office in Costa Rica. And now it spreads like wildfire. Everyone wants to bet on BetoDoc. So that's how I grew the business. I went to old school bookmakers that didn't know the technical side of things. And, you know, I was young. I was ambitious.

29:01And that's how I became, you know, nationwide. light.

29:04Owen Hanson:What did you run it like a business where you had like you were looking at your monthly numbers, yearly revenues, profit and loss? How how sort of sophisticated did you get with that business? So in the beginning, I was running around like a chicken with my head cut off, I'm not gonna lie. And then I ended up, you know, forming an office in Costa Rica, where I had someone answering all the phones for my VIP customers. Then I had a call center for all the regular customers that are betting between$25 and$1 ,000. And then I had people that would move the lines. So if one side of the spread was minus three Raiders, for instance, and all the money was being bet on the Raiders, I would have someone that would move that line according to my money.

29:49Because at the end of the day, you don't want to get caught with your pants down. You want to level it out. Because remember, we're charging 10 % on each side. So we can't lose if the bets are even. So that's a very important part of this business. In the beginning, it wasn't like that, you know. I'm running around. I don't know anything about the game. So then I have an accountant, and then I have collectors, and then you got stash houses where you keep your money, and you have banks that you need to send money into to take the money out, you know, because you got to remember, if someone wants to pay me in Texas and I'm in California, how am I going to get the money?

30:21So, you know, we have certain shell companies that we set up to accept the money, whether it being an ATM business I would have where people would go deposit cash in the ATM business and then I would have people in California that would own the ATM business and pull the cash out for me. So we had to get creative. I had a gold business. People would buy gold and they'd send me gold for payment so there's no paper trail.

30:42Owen Hanson:So it gets very technical and you've got to be savvy and you've got to try to avoid law enforcement. Did you have someone that taught you how to do this or were you pretty much self-taught? No, I learned. In the beginning, I would watch my mentors, and I would watch the way they would structure it. They're a big book offshore in Peru, and I said, okay, they're doing that. I can do something similar, but I don't like the way they're structuring it like that. You know what? There's a paper trail. Okay, they have international wires that they're doing. I don't like that either. But then I saw that they had offshore accounts like in Switzerland and Costa Rica and Peru, and I'm thinking to myself, okay, that's important because if you can keep your money offshore, that's ideal.

31:23But then again, how do you keep your money offshore and pay your customers in the U.S.? So you have to have a stash house that has at least$500 ,000 in case someone beat you. And you have to have these stash houses throughout the United States because your runner is going to go pick up the cash and drop it off in that vicinity. So that's where the logistics got hard for me, and that's where I kind of learned everything on my own.

31:47Owen Hanson:Do you know what kind of revenue you got to in your peak annual revenue? Like a good NFL football week was like$300 ,000 to$400 ,000 a week for a good NFL football week. You know, I had a million-dollar months, obviously in the gambling empire, right? Once you start talking about the drugs, that's a whole other scale because it's a lot more money and it's a lot more riskier and you get a lot more time. So you decided to transition your business. What was it? And again, I'm applying it to regular companies. But did you get the business to a size and sort of say, OK, well, you know, fairly complex, limited in terms of the sales opportunities or revenue opportunities?

32:31Owen Hanson:I'm looking, I want to diversify and look for something else. Or was that an opportunity that sort of came to you and you ended up in a sort of a different type of business than what you started? No, I really never meant to get back in involved. Like, I sold, you know, little drugs here and there in college just to get by, right? Just like performance enhancing drugs just to have, be able to pay for my way in college because we didn't have money. So I never meant to come back to this lifestyle, right? The bookmaking was just fine. It was making great money, right? But I wanted to go international with my gambling business.

33:06And I started going international as far as, you know, I started taking bets in Mexico. I had a guy in Mexico that was a pen and paper bookie as well that wanted to use my software. And he had some customers that were too big for him to take the action that was betting between$10 ,000 and$20 ,000 a game, and he didn't want that action. So he partnered up with me, and I said, we'll split the action. And next thing you know, he's giving me these big players, and I don't care at the end of the day who the customers are. As long as I'm getting paid, that's not my business because you, Matthew, are my agent.

33:39If you're going to go collect the money from me, I don't care about your customers. Those are your customers, right? So that's what happened. I ended up going to the international level, and I started expanding my business, and I ended up taking bets from an infamous cartel, the biggest cartel in the world. And I didn't know it at the time. And long story short, I got indebted to them, and we lost some of their money by fluke, by accident. Not me personally, but I was responsible for it. And that's kind of how it fell in my lap. And as a child that's been around a dad that's been real strict with, you know, we have integrity and morals and ethics, I knew that if someone loses money and I'm responsible and my face was on the line, I know that I'm responsible to pay it back.

34:22So that's what I did. You know, someone lost my money, but I was the face of this operation and I did the right thing. And it included me selling, you know, cocaine all over the world. Guess what? I did it. I served my time. I went to prison for it. and I own up to it. And bad people like me that sell drugs, 100 % they need to go to prison because it's illegal. And I accept that.

34:45Owen Hanson:There's a book that tells the full story, and I'm not going to go into that. I recommend people look at the book, and I believe there's potentially a movie deal. Yeah, let's hope, man. Fuck, I've been in prison the last 10 years. That would be a blessing if that did happen for sure. I'm not going to tell the story, but there are some interesting things that I think you know you you ended up getting in the international logistics business and I'm going to sort of apply it to terms that people are familiar with but what would you say what was your approach to problem solving because you had some really almost like impossible problems to deal with I you know I'm comparing it to people today where you know we're dealing with a number of different challenges from distribution and prices of shipping and getting product to customers at a certain price point.

35:36Owen Hanson:But you had unbelievable challenges compared to the business I'm in. What was your approach when you came up to a situation and you had to basically solve a problem? And we don't have to necessarily talk about some of the problems that you solve, but how did you look at those challenges and end up with the various different solutions and test them out and be able to come up with ways to solve problems that would seem impossible even if we would talk about it now? Good question. Hey, great question, actually. You know, you've got to look at the history, right? Let's go back in time and see what problems these people have in logistics and where do they go wrong, right?

36:23And I did that in my business. I studied, right? I studied the Pablo Escobars, the Chapo Guzmans, and I watched their routes. I watched how they handled their logistics and what got caught and what made it through. And for me, I had to study that, okay, if I'm sending in, say, avocados, and my product's going in avocados and they've already figured out that avocados are being, people are smuggling my product that I was using, the cocaine, you have to realize, okay, they're hip to that. So let's think outside the box. And that's the most important thing. So, you know, why don't we put it in fish?

37:03Like who would ever think that you would have it in the center of a fish that's a frozen product, right? So things like that, you just got to get creative, right? And it's a lot easier for me to get creative when you owe the cartel$4 million, right? So you got to think outside the box. And whether it was fish I would use or, you know, chocolates or, you know, alcohol, whatever it may be, you have to figure out something that A, the DEA is not going to be able to see and B, that the dogs that the DEA has working for them aren't going to be able to smell. And so it was a lot of homework. It was a lot of seeing what worked and what didn't work.

37:41And you've got to find someone in business. You've got to find someone that's at the top. Like if I was ever to sell a book, I would go study Jeff Bezos, right? He did it for 20 years and failed, right? He didn't figure it out for that long out of his garage, but he finally figured it out. And I told myself I want to be the Jeff Bezos of distribution, right? He's doing it with books. I want to do it with my product. And that's what I did. I just studied the routes, and I studied what worked and what didn't work. And my percentage was like 99%. The only time I ever got caught was the last package, and that's the only one that ever got picked off.

38:19Owen Hanson:When you were going through the planning stages, was it something that you were doing in your own head you sat down with bits of paper like how did you go about understanding and brainstorming and testing and and then getting it to a stage where you had a high level of confidence and and I guess for you the high level of confidence had dire consequences if you made it wrong like if you know for me if I tried to ship something from China to New York and it went wrong all right I lose the container you know 20 30 grand or whatever But for you, the consequences were a lot more risky. So how did you go through that process and when did you know to pull the trigger on executing an idea?

38:57You know, execution is key, but you always have to test it, right? So I would just test it with like, you know, my product was obviously cocaine. So I would test it with one kilo just to see if it makes it, right? So, you know, I would sit in my room and I would have a piece of paper and I would just map it all out. okay let's try this way we're going to do it on this date we know that customs is not very busy at this time or we know when christmas time comes let's let's push our product at that time because there's so many packages that are coming in that there's no way they can search through all of our packages and let's make it look like we're sending a christmas item you know so we have to be creative and we have to plan accordingly and we have to look at the entire picture and for me you know is it it's a timing thing for sure like in any business and if you if you lose one okay it's just part of doing business but you know luckily for me I never lost any you clearly have the

39:54Owen Hanson:ability to handle pressure like I again there's some interesting stories that that are in the book which kind of I you know I couldn't deal with that I don't I don't know whether I could deal with that amount of pressure but certainly certainly you have the ability to to cope under a phenomenal amount of pressure how do you make sure that pressure is working on your side and how do you avoid pressure pushing you to make decisions that may may sort of have dire consequences because again in business like you know a lot of times everyone's dealing with pressure we've we've got to make decisions but sometimes you can rush a decision and it could have issues if you're not standing back and thinking and like talk me through a little bit about what what the way you approach pressure and making decisions and also being mindful not to allow the moment or the emotion to take control of of your logical thought process you know I always say a good business starts with the foundation right so it starts with for me working out right in the morning my first thing is I work out you know and then putting good things in your body.

41:06And if you have that, you have clear mind, right? And as soon as you start drinking alcohol or taking drugs, it alters your mind. And that's where I went wrong. And that's kind of was my downfall. You know, I was using alcohol, using drugs because I had so much pressure. And if I would have been sober this whole time, I think that clear mindset would have got me a lot further. We probably wouldn't even be in this interview. But unfortunately, I personally went down that path of substance abuse. It's been in my family. My dad was an alcoholic, so it's hereditary obviously. And I think if you start with that clean mindset and you care about your foundation, which is building from the ground up, every morning working out and getting in that mindset, and it's just clockwork, you become a soldier, and you eat that protein and you drink that gallon of water and you get those eight hours of sleep, I think that makes your business so much more stronger.

42:03And that was my mentality, like, okay, we need to be clear-minded in order to be clear-minded. We don't care whether, you know, right now, for instance, I had a 10.30 call and then I had 11 a.m. meeting with you, this podcast, and I know I have a 3.30 call with my lawyer, but at the end of the day, if you're focused and you're sober and you're thinking clear, you can make anything happen.

42:28Owen Hanson:Are you clean now? Yeah, I've been clean for 10 years. I was chatting to someone about this who did martial arts and he told me a bit of a story about two people fighting, going back to the samurai days and fighting to the death. They were practicing with each other and then how much alcohol could you take? Is it a glass? Is it a sip? Is it a sniff? If you're in a situation where you're fighting to the death, how much does that compromise your ability to win against someone that's of similar physical and technical strength against you? And I'm curious because you've been through both sides. Where do you sit about substances, whether it's alcohol, cocaine, you name it, And the difference between having none and having a little bit, particularly if you take that to its nth degree of you doing a little bit every day, where can that take you?

43:35Owen Hanson:Is it very slight or can, as in your case, is the consequences be pretty dramatic? Great question. For me, I can't do this moderation, right? I tell people, if you want to do it, do it in moderation. But once I have that first beer, I want a cocktail. Once I have that cocktail, I want a line of Coke. Once I have that line of Coke, I want to go gamble on sports. Once I do that, I'm going to go get a hooker. It's just going to snowball. It's a bad, for me, I can't do it. But if you can do it in moderation, that's what I recommend. Like, yeah, it would be great to go out and have a nice steak dinner with you and have a nice glass of wine.

44:14But at the end of the day, Matthew, I know that's not going to be enough for me, right? I used to party like a fucking rock star, right? So it's like I would just keep chasing and chasing that feeling I had, you know, 11 years ago. Because that feeling, I felt unstoppable. I felt like Superman.

44:30Owen Hanson:Coming up next. You only have two things in life. You have your word and your balls. And what they say, you don't bust those, you don't break those for anybody, right? Anywhere I went in prison, I just found the salt guy. And that's how I built my brand. And in prison, it was called Kingpin Creamery because everyone knew I was a kingpin. if you look good, you feel good. If you feel good, you look good. And he says, if you look like money, you're going to make money. Trust no one but yourself because at the end of the day, it's going to be you that makes the decision. I want to sort of change direction a little bit.

45:03Owen Hanson:You clearly had some fun and without glamorizing the bad side of it, you know, someone who didn't grow up without having any money and then suddenly ended up with a huge amount of money. Like what was the biggest night that you had? How much did you spend? And what were some of the really extravagant things that you spent money on? Man, I hate talking about this. Because you've got to remember I came from nothing. Like I said, the son of a construction worker, right? So growing up with never having anything and watching my dad being so frugal, you know, I hate to talk about it, but, you know, I had...

45:42I remember when I became a millionaire at 27 years old, and you've never got to treat yourself, right, to anything in life. And I remember one day I got a Richard Millet watch, which was$150 ,000. I reserved a yacht for a week in Miami, which was another$150 ,000. And I bought my girlfriend a Birkenberg from Hermes, which was, I think,$50 ,000 at the time. So I just spent$350 ,000 in one day. But I've never had anything in life. So for me, it was like, wow, let's, let's, people are like, oh, you don't, you just, you just party with your money. And I'm just like, when you have, when you come from nothing, it's just like, you got to do it once in a while.

46:20You got to enjoy life once in a blue moon and, and never having, you know, two quarters to rub as a child. It was, it was a surreal feeling to have that kind of money and be a millionaire at 27 years old. I'm like, okay, let's enjoy life a little bit. Right. The money's coming in so fast. You can't even spend it.

46:39Owen Hanson:Were there any other extra, like did you like cars or anything else like that? Yeah, of course, I love cars. I remember I spent a quarter million dollars on this, it was called a mobile office, right? It was like a Cadillac escalated inside, it was stripped out, and it had two seats in it with jet seats, so you felt like you were in a jet, and it had a laptop that comes out of the side, it had a full bar, and what the driver would slide down, you'd see the driver, and you'd have this like 32-inch screen that you could use for your computer. And I remember I spent a quarter million dollars on it, and I got the same thing in Mexico and had it bulletproofed.

47:15So I just like that. I like feeling like a boss, right? So I would pick up clients to take them golfing at, like Pelican Hill and Newport Beach, and I'd send my driver, and I'd say, hey, go pick up Ricky and Corona Del Mar, and let's take him for a round of golf, right? So Ricky would get in there, and he'd be feeling like the biggest VIP customer ever. you know and and these guys are losing a quarter million dollars a year to me in gambling so why

47:40Owen Hanson:not give them that vip treatment did you ever did you have any legendary parties that you can remember man i think the most legendary party would have been at the uh playboy mansion we won the national championship and uh hugh hefter invited the whole team and i remember about it i was like fuck what 20 years old it was me and my my tight let's see my tight end unit and uh Matt Leinert was there, the quarterback, my fullback, Brandon Hancock. And we had the time of our lives, you know. Where was his mansion? His Playboy mansion was in like Brentwood. And he had like monkeys and toucans. And he had every kind of animal you'd think of in this.

48:21It was beautiful. And, yeah, just I think of that. I think of the Maximum parties we were invited to. You know, remember when Maximum Magazine was big back in the day. And like I said, when you're playing at that level and you're part of this USC National Championship football team, the doors open everywhere you go in life.

48:41Owen Hanson:When you got involved with the cartel, was that like what you watch on the movies? Was it parties and that, or was that just serious business? No, in the beginning it was serious business. And then once the cartel realizes that I'm a businessman and they see what I can do, You know, it's, hey, can you bring some merchandise for us? Can you, you know, you've got to remember the cartel, they're not allowed to leave Mexico. They're not allowed to travel, obviously, because most of them are wanted. So sometimes they ask me to bring the party to them, right? Go to Las Vegas and pick$50 ,000 in Louis Vuitton and Hermes and Gucci and grab merchandise from all those stores and put it in a private jet and fly with 10 girls from Hollywood and come visit us.

49:27and it's all expense paid. So you got these women that are like, fuck yeah, we're getting Gucci, Louis Vuitton and Hermes. And, you know, I'm lying to them and telling them, hey, you want to meet these real estate developers in Mexico? I'm not telling them these are cartel guys. And at the end of the day, these are businessmen. They're just like you and I. You wouldn't know unless they told you. But we're all here to make money. And it's just they chose a different way to make money.

49:52Owen Hanson:What was most, I guess, try to think of the best words. Like what was sort of most mind-blowing about like what they built, whether, you know, what they owned, like what they did? Because I guess for anyone it's difficult to even imagine. Like you only see it in movies and, you know, in the movies they seem like they've got these big impressive houses and stuff. Like was there anything that when you went into that at any point you were just mind-blown at what you were seeing at any point? Yeah, you know, I've been in the compound of these guys, you know, compounds. You know, we're talking, you know, 30 ,000, 40 ,000 square foot houses on lots that are acres and acres, you know, and, you know, have the most extravagant cars and watches and, you know, alcohol bottles.

50:42You know, Louis XIII, these Class A Exul Ultra tequila, that's like$5 ,000 a bottle. And you see all these nice things and then you go see their animals. and I remember I had to bring the cartel boss. It was a baby tiger and it was this white tiger. I had to pick up in Tijuana and he flew his private jet in Tijuana airport for me. I was like so nervous. I was like, man, is PETA going to arrest me right now? Like this is like, you know, this is pretty crazy. He's having me pick up this baby cub, right? And I remember putting it in this Louis Vuitton duffel bag and getting on his private plane. I was like, holy shit, what am I doing right now, right?

51:19Owen Hanson:This is a little baby cub. And then you get there and it's like a zoo, right? It's like, wow. They just really want the most exotic things, the most exclusive things. Like in prison, like if you have an ice watch that's not sold on the commissary, that's exclusive, right? And you're willing to pay whatever for it. And it's the same thing for these gangsters. They want an AK-47 that has diamond encrusted or a Louis Vuitton, you know, embezzled. And that's the life they live. That's what they want. They have enough money to pay for anything. And I remember getting a gift. I got this Louis Vuitton AK-47 when I made my first million dollars for the cartel.

51:59And it had a Louis Vuitton, a handle, and it was all silver-plated. It was like a white gold, actually. It was beautiful. What had that been worth? I would say it was white gold-plated, I would say at least$50 ,000. And he took out all the...

52:15Owen Hanson:That must have been a one-of-a-kind. Yeah, a one-of-a-kind. It was custom-made. and I remember I kept it in my office in my Redondo Beach home and it was just like a trophy, right? No one knew what I was doing. Everyone thought I was in the gambling business but it was like that was my little secret trophy. You seem someone that has the ability to read people,

52:37Owen Hanson:influence and, yeah, obviously kind of create relationships. when when and you know we we met and sort of had a great feeling about each other and you're just a warm welcoming guy when you were dealing with people that you you know like the cartel and you knew the business that were in and you knew how dangerous they were how did you approach those relationships you know how did you I guess in some ways you you don't want to be too intimidated but you there's got to be this balance that you have with those people but how did you from a psychological perspective, what was it like dealing with creating relationships and rapport with those people and being able to sort of, you know, stand firm when you needed to stand firm, but also follow, follow orders when you needed to?

53:29You know, you go in those meetings, and you got to realize like, you have no fear, right? You only have two things in life, you have your word and your balls. And what they say, you don't bust those, you don't break those for anybody, right? So you go into these meetings and for me, I just have to be myself, right? You got to be honest, right? You don't want to try to hide anything. So honesty is key in any kind of business relationship. I say transparency is important. So I remember speaking to the cartel bosses and I had to be transparent. Yeah, I lost their money. I understand that. I understand you have these sicarios, these guys that are killers that they kill for a living that could kill me right now.

54:03But at the end of the day, what's good is it going to do if they kill me? Then you don't get your money. I'm somebody that's worth a lot more than$4 million. I'm someone that can make you the$4 million for 10 years, you know, and make you$40 million over a lifetime, whatever it may be, you just have to look at who I am as a businessman and an entrepreneur.

54:24Owen Hanson:Confidence is something that in business, I guess, holds a lot of people back. Self-doubt, not, you know, not sure whether they can actually start a business and be successful. what what gave you the confidence where you could sit and you you appreciated your value in a way where it's like okay I'm worth more than four million I'm worth four million for the next 10 years clearly you have no way of proving that yeah outside of self-belief like what what gave you that belief and confidence in yourself to be able to one be able to know that you could pull it off and and and convince someone like that you know my whole life being the underdog in knowing I've been able to succeed in sports and relationships and, you know, education and understanding, like, you're going to get knocked down in life.

55:16But if you get up and you keep trying, guess what? One day you're going to knock that guy out. And for me, that's what it was. Every time I got knocked down, I kept getting up and I never gave up on myself. And that's important. You know, I tell people the government, you know, was like Mike Tyson. You're going in the ring with Mike Tyson and you're going to get knocked out and it's going to fucking hurt, right? But I never got knocked out. I did get knocked down a few times, right? I feel like it's a 12 round fight. So you may get knocked down. You may lose the first six rounds, but guess what?

55:45There's six fucking more. So guess what? You never know what can happen. So keep getting up because you might hit him with the left hook and he might drop. And that's how you got to look at life. No matter what life throws at you, you got to get up and you got to keep fighting because

55:59Owen Hanson:it's your life no one else's you clearly got knocked out um not in the 12th round but you did got knocked out paid the price have you been able to um and obviously you mentioned earlier it was a very difficult situation but have you managed to keep that fight in you you've got another business now have you been able to sort of maintain that that confidence and that fight that you had back then you know i'm not gonna lie matthew it's been very difficult right i get out of prison. I'm still currently living under the bureau custody. I'm living in a halfway house, right? And you forget how to make money, right?

56:36It's been so long. And you have no confidence in yourself because it came so easy. You got to remember, if I was making a million dollars a day and you get out of prison and you can't even make a quarter, like it's not a very good feeling. And as a man who likes to provide for his family, likes to, you know, make money and be able to take a nice girl out and give her some nice things. It just feels like that's how life's supposed to be, right? You're supposed to take care of your loved ones. And for me, it was the most humbling experience to come out and not be able to make money again. And that's what I've been dealing with.

57:09And, you know, you just got to realize you got to use what you have. You know, I knew I didn't have any money. The government took everything. So I'm like, okay, what can I get into? I can't get into real estate. You need money to buy real estate. So I picked a product that was very little on the expensive side. You know, I picked an ice cream, something that I had already made in prison that was already, you know, making me a lot of money in prison. Like, you know, who would ever thought you could make ice cream in prison and charge$15 for a peanut butter jar full of it, right? So I knew this recipe was good.

57:44And when I got out of prison, I said, well, I have no money, but I saved some money when I was selling my ice cream in prison. And that's what I did. I used those resources, and I just started looking. I started to see who could make the ice cream. And I said, let's start small. We'll put it on a stick, right? And I went to like 10 different manufacturers that make these Mexican ice creams. They're called paletas, right? And I'm like, okay. As a child, I used to see the little ice cream man push this push cart around and selling these things for like two bucks. So I said, if those were two bucks, they probably are only 50 cents to make, right?

58:21So I said, I know I got 50 cents. So I'm going to start small, you know. I think I had$10 ,000 when I got out of prison and I took that money and I invested in this ice cream business. And I started this, you know, protein ice cream. And I went to 10 different manufacturers and no one believed in me. They didn't want to do business with me. It wasn't worth their time. And I finally found a manufacturer. I gave him the book. I said, here's the book. You can read it if you want, but I'm going to tell you. I'm a man of my word, and I promise you you'll get every dollar from me and more. I said, I know how to make money, and if you team up with me, I guarantee you we're going to make money.

58:58And the guy believed in me. I came back the next week. He goes, man, I read your story. He says, it's incredible. He goes, your work ethic's insane. He says, I want to do business with you. And we shook hands, and we started working on this ever since. and you know it started it started with me in this kitchen at the halfway house you know blending up the product and taking the product with the protein and the yogurt and the ice cream mix and the Greek yogurt and strawberries and I'm blending it up and then I'm driving over to the manufacturer and I'm pouring it in in his molds and locking it up and freezing it and trying it and it took six months to figure out the flavors and I finally figured out the product and I'm like okay now I need to figure out the packaging and And it's like anything in life.

59:43If you're given lemons, make lemonade, right? So I knew I didn't have money, so I had to start small. And maybe one day this will get big. And like I tell people, you know, in the business I used to be in, I started small, right? And it blew up and I became this kingpin. So in this game of ice cream, maybe I'll become a kingpin on ice cream.

1:00:03Owen Hanson:You came up with the idea, I believe, when you were actually in prison. Is that correct? Yes, when I was incarcerated. It was by accident. So tell us about that. So every time I'd work out, I'd always come back to my cell and I would have a protein shake. And the way I made my protein shake is we were able to buy protein off the commissary, these packs. And I would take the milk from the kitchen and I'd pour it in a peanut butter jar and I'd pour the protein pack in there. And then I would slice bananas and I'd put them inside the peanut butter jar. And then I'd take a little swirl of peanut butter and I'd shake it all up and I'd just put it on, I had this trash can.

1:00:36And in prison you don't have refrigeration, so I had to fill the trash can up with ice. And you just get back from your workout and you chug your shake, right? It kind of feels like after a workout at Gold's Gym when you go to the smoothie bar, right? So people always say, man, you're so dedicated to your workouts. I said, listen, I may be currently in prison right now physically, but my mind is not. Everything I'm doing here in this prison, I don't even know I'm in prison. That's how I make my mindset work. So when I'm having that shake, I'm thinking of Gold's Gym in Redondo Beach as a kid, drinking it at the smoothie bar.

1:01:11Like the government's not fucking with my head. I'm going to fuck with theirs. So I would drink that shake and I wouldn't even feel like I'm in prison. I'd go work out with my buddies and I'd feel like I'm working out with my buddies from home. So with that mindset, I would always make my shake. I'd have three a day. And eventually one day there was no ice in the ice machine and we had just a little leftover, right? And I was like, fuck, man, what are we going to do now? Like I'm not going to be able to have my shake. like cold and my celly goes no just put a little rock salt or just put a little salt right he says it'll keep it cold so i get back from my workout i go to grab it and it's frozen i'm like motherfucker how am i supposed to drink this now it's frozen my celly goes just eat it man it'll be like ice cream so i started eating and i think holy shit i think we're on to something right and then i said you know what my all my workout partners i got a navy seal that i'm working out with a marine and this cartel guy right they're always every sunday we have this party together and they make these these cheesecakes full of creamer, full of cheese.

1:02:07It's just terrible for you, right? I'm like, I'm tired of eating this bullshit. So one day I said, you know what, guys? No more cheesecakes. I said, I'm going to bring a dessert for you. I want you guys to tell me how you like it. So I remember making four of these ice creams, these protein ice creams. And I made them in a mop bucket. I took a plastic bag and I lined it. And I put a bunch of ice, a bunch of salt. I made my shakes. I shook them up, put them in there. And for like two hours, I'd have a guy just constantly moving the ice. And then two hours later, he had moved again. And after four hours, those things would lock up.

1:02:41And I would come back from our workout and I'd go grab them. And I ran to the yard and I gave everyone one. I gave them a spoon and I'd try it. And they're like, they started eating it. They're like, holy shit, dude, this is ice cream. We've never had ice cream in prison, right? It's unheard of. I'm like, does it taste good really? Like, are they just bullshitting me, right? And they're like, no, it tastes amazing. So I always knew I had this ability to make something that was exclusive in prison. And my whole prison bid, that's what I did. I started making this ice cream. And everywhere I went, I would try to get a contract with the people that had the salt because the salt's the most important part.

1:03:17And I would monopolize the salt game. I'd go to the guy that provided the salt. It's usually like a facilities where they take care of the whole prison. And one inmate takes care of all the salt supply. And the salt is used for snow. So if it's snowing, they put the salt on the concrete and it melts it. So I'd go to the guy and I said, listen here. I said, Jesse, you are the salt guy. I have an agreement that I want to make with you. I said, how does 20 bucks a month or$20, it was$20 a week sound. You give me all your salt that you have extra of. I said, and this is the catch. Every time I make ice cream, you get one ice cream.

1:03:54I said, I'm going to make an ice cream every week for you. He goes, so you're going to get four ice creams that's worth$15 each and you're going to get$20 each week for the salt. And I said, if anybody comes to you and asks for salt, tell them they have to purchase it through me, Owen. He's like, okay. So guys started trying to buy it from Jesse, trying to give him more money. And he's like, no, you got to go talk to Owen. So what I would do is I'd say, okay, you guys want the salt? No problem. Here's a peanut butter jar. It's$15 because I know that one peanut butter jar is only going to make them one ice cream or they could buy the ice cream for me for$15.

1:04:27So I knew I had it monopolized where they wouldn't be able to be profitable. They can make their own ice cream if they want, go for it. But guess what? I just made$15 off a peanut butter jar. So I learned to monopolize the market. And anywhere I went in prison, I just found the salt guy. And that's how I built my brand. And in prison, it was called Kingpin Creamery because everyone knew I was a kingpin. And I would have my peanut butter jars engraved where the guy would take a needle a sewing needle in prison and he'd pick out the lettering that said his king pen it would take him like three days creamery and he'd do it for an ice cream and i'd have these 10 jars laid out and that's how i'd make them and it was just all about appearance right everyone likes

1:05:07Owen Hanson:to see something that you know is different you use the word appearance and the i think the reason we're sitting here is because uh we went to the expo my wife two two children were there and And your appearance was, well, the team, the guys we met, your Dutch colleague who I think set us up actually, you've got this, I guess, electric, engaging sort of brand and everything from your website, your social media, the clothing you wear. Where did that come from? Because that doesn't happen by accident. I know you work with great agencies, but there's definitely, like even in the way you present yourself, there's definitely something that must be in your mind that takes a lot of care and thought in terms of appearance and the message that you're giving out to people.

1:05:59You know, my first job out of college was with this USC alumni, and he always told me, if you look good, you feel good. If you feel good, you look good. And he says, if you look like money, you're going to make money. So I always told myself, I've got to look like money to make money. and I always had this California kid vibe, right? So the aesthetics of California and Miami kind of go together, right? These bright colors, you know, baby blue, pink, mint green, you know, Tiffany green, all these colors

1:06:28Owen Hanson:and you want to be noticed, right? You want people to say, oh yeah, the California Ice Protein, I remember that brand. They all had matching jumpsuits or their aesthetics were unbelievable. They had palm trees and they had these ice cream push carts. You want them to remember that brand. So when they see California, they always put California with those good-looking people. We had four beautiful girls working and guys that are in shape. So it's all about image. It's all about the better you look and the more fit you are, the more money you're going to make. And that's how I believe in life in general.

1:07:06Owen Hanson:Taking into consideration some of the things we've talked about, marketing, innovative distribution of difficult products to ship, getting control of the supply chain. Tell us a little bit about the business model, what you've put together, and what your ambitions for the brand is and where you think you can really take it. You know, my ambition from day one has been I want to be the ice cream bar all over every gym, every nutrition store. You know, those need to be my target audience, right? Because who can say they go to the gym and buy ice cream? But what if you have protein ice cream? Maybe people would buy it, right?

1:07:45Because it's healthy. And I said to myself, who's done it best in this fitness world? And I think back to a company called Quest Nutrition.

1:07:54Owen Hanson:Tom Billy was... Genius, right? And you never thought it would make it, right? I remember before my arrest, I was eating these bars, and they tasted so good, but it's just a protein bar, right? But his packaging was cool because he would have like cookie dough on it and then it would be like cookie dough protein bar. So it was appealing to the eye because you would see that. And I said to myself, okay, I want to be the Quest of ice cream. That guy took his company from a million dollars and sold it for a billion dollars. I said, that's where I want to be, right? But you've got to build a team.

1:08:27So what better way to build a team than find the guy that worked with Quest, right? And that's one of the ways, you know, I started this. I was at the Fitness Expo. One of the guys that brought that company to where it became, you know, a billion-dollar company was there. And I told these girls that knew him, I kept telling him, I want to meet Bruce. I want to meet Bruce. He's a great guy. He's awesome, right? Now they're legends, right? They have legendary foods now. And I said, I got to meet that guy, man. I want to pick his brain, right? And these girls that knew him, they're always like, just tell us when you want to meet Bruce.

1:09:01I'm like, I'm not ready, I'm not ready. Because remember, I had no confidence. I'm still in this prison mentality. Like, I'm nervous because the brand's not there yet. I didn't feel like it was there. So when I was able to reach out to my friend on the East Coast, Roland, and he helped me with Dan at Creative Growth, and we were able to build this brand. And I was like, okay, we're putting it together where it's starting to feel like a brand, it's starting to look like a brand. So I was, you know, packaging these things in the garage, right? My friend's garage, I was like packaging them and vacuum sealing them.

1:09:33I'm like, you know, I have footage of this. It's insane. And finally, you know, the manufacturer is telling me, no, we can order bags for you. You know, we can do all that. But I didn't have the money, right? So, you know, you're calling your dad and you're like, Dad, please, man, this is my chance. Like, can you just buy the bags, right? And I remember asking my dad for a$10 ,000 loan.

1:09:53Owen Hanson:It was so humiliating, right? You're like, you're 42 years old and you're asking your dad for money. And my dad's the whole time I was in prison, you know, putting money on my books so I can afford my commissary. And it's a hard pill to swallow because you know the government took everything from you, but your loved ones are there for you for forever, right? So my dad, you know, he bit the bullet and he gave me$10 ,000 to make my first purchase of bags. And I ordered 10 ,000 bags of each flavor, 14 flavors. So I have 140 ,000 bags now to make the ice cream. So that's where it started, and we'll have ice cream together, and you'll see the packaging, and it's unreal.

1:10:34Owen Hanson:Clearly there's a lot of, as we've talked through it, you've learned so much, you've been through so much. It's probably a degree course on its own, some of the things that you've learned. There's a huge amount of things I would have even applied to my own business, by the way that you've approached this. But when you look back on the good and the bad, and I'm particularly talking probably for people, maybe younger people that have those similar aspirations to you, they want to make money, they want to be successful, but clearly there's ways of doing about it. What are your lessons and what are some of the things you think for anyone that's listening would be important to take away that's probably the 21-year-old version of you back then?

1:11:22I would say number one is believe in yourself, right? Trust no one but yourself because at the end of the day, it's going to be you that makes the decision whether you're going to go the distance with this company or fall in a hole and not succeed. So you've got to believe in yourself always. That's number one. And then you've got to surround yourself with healthy peers, good environment of people that have common knowledge with it. You don't want to be around people that are using drugs or going out at night and partying. You want to surround yourself with a healthy environment that have already been successful.

1:11:58I always tell people, if you can get someone that's already made money in that field, why not try to get him? And if he's going to do it for sweat equity, give him a nice percentage, right? Because he's done it. It's proven. And don't be afraid to give percentages to people that are valuable to the company. And I always tell people, even if you have you know say 20 % of a company it's better than having a company 20 % of a company that's not making money right so like people I always compare like oh I only have 5 % of this company but listen Jeff Bezos has what 8 % of Amazon and he's the second richest man in the world so you can't look at it like oh I need to have the whole thing it's better to divvy it up and surround yourself with people that have been successful in that field and build a team because it's all about teamwork.

1:12:48Owen Hanson:My final question, Owen, escape your limits is about escaping what you've believed is impossible and gone on to make possible. Outside of what we've spoken about here today, what would be a memorable example of where you've had to escape your personal limits? I mean, I think you got to go back to that day I walked onto the USC football team, right? You've never played the game in your life. You've been an athlete your whole life. So you know you You have that athletic ability to do anything. And if you're an athlete, you're determined to be competitive your whole entire life and you're willing to do whatever it takes to be a winner, right?

1:13:26Because no one likes to lose. So I think that would be that day when I went to that walk-on and there's 50 guys that were like all Americans from high school and junior college and everyone's wearing cleats, right? Football cleats. And I show up wearing my volleyball shoes, right? I don't know any better. And you're like, okay, you think to yourself, well, there goes that tryout, right? You're going to slip. You're going to fall. You might as well just go back to the locker room, right? And you've got to think to yourself, no, it's okay. Like, we make mistakes in life. Let's just shake it off and let's see what we can do with it.

1:14:03And I remember that day there was 50 guys. And a week later when they posted who made the team, there was one guy on that list, and that was me, Owen Hansen. Thanks for your time, Larry.

1:14:14Owen Hanson:That was great. Hey, we got to eat some ice cream for the time.