LIFTS Episode 102 - The Career Skill No One Trains For | Battle Tested Principles for the Corporate Athlete

23:31Matthew Januszek:What I am aware of, though, is stress is caused by a number of things. Like you mentioned caffeine, and certainly myself, depending on how much caffeine I have, and I've never really measured it like you've suggested and maybe I need to do that but at some point that can impact your ability to deal with stress sometimes you can fly off the handle a little bit too quickly if you've had too much caffeine the other thing that really affects me I over the last few days I went away it was my birthday it was Thanksgiving probably ate a bit too much food that I wouldn't typically eat a little bit too much sugar and again I find that I've got a little bit of a hangover and I think that also affects my ability to deal with stress so so there's a number of things there some that we've talked about which is nutrition the other thing you could talk about in terms of some kind of supplementation but what what have you found when you're training some of these people anything that in particular that really helps them manage stress either before they go into that situation anything that you found as being helpful to get them to do, or when they've, when they're suddenly hit with that situation, how they can best get themselves almost like regrounded so that they can get themselves together and, and, and deal with the job in hand.

24:51As far as stress, I mean, you know, what, what supplementation out there that is kind of benefit and got a lot of good research behind it is ashwagandha. So I've used that with some, some athletes that are kind of have a hard time down regulating. And I have some theories about like explosive, like sprinting athletes who are very fast twitch. I feel like mentally they're, they're, they're wired the same. And so sometimes it's really hard for them to kind of calm down. And so Ashwaganda has got some great research, you know, behind it, you know, 240, 300 milligrams in the evening, taking that can, can help down regulate in terms of the fighter, like for the UFC.

25:30So I work with a guy, Jim Miller. He's got so many fights under his belt. I don't deal with any of that. I just deal with his nutrition and helping him, you know, make weight, which he does every time and stay within a certain, you know, kind of weight. So the weight cut isn't as bad, which I think when you talk about stress on things that you can manage with some of these fighters is, you know, there was a study out of Australia that looked at MMA fighters and found that, you know, cutting 8 % body weight, you know, before the fight, those fighters did better than those that cut 10 % or more.

26:08And so we try to stay within that 8 % window, you know, going into fight week. So you're close to that. So you can get fully rehydrated. Because, you know, there's certainly fighters who do more than that. I have some theories about you can get away with it when you're younger, it gets harder when you get older. But I can't help but think if you're going above that, if you're cutting 12 % of your body weight, if you look at the literature, when it comes to rehydration, in that 24 hours, you're probably and especially since IVs are now illegal, you're probably not going to be hydrated. come fight time.

26:40That's interesting. So I was just talking about process. I'm not as big on MMA as Matthew and his family are. I didn't even realize that they would cut that much weight. I know that they have to make weight, but I didn't realize that there's a whole process before where you're cutting north of 10 % of your weight. Well, there was just an interview with Kayla Harrison, who's phenomenal judoka, who now is fighting and fighting for the championship. And I mean, she gave this, you know, in a public interview, she's cutting 18 % body weight. So she walks away around at 165 and fights at 135. And I mean, she's a lean 165.

27:18I don't know how she does it. I'm a nutritional physiologist. And I'm like, I don't see how somebody as muscular as her can make that weight. But, you know, hats off to her team, because she does it and she performs. So I wouldn't recommend it like that wouldn't be me recommending it. But there are those extremes. And, you know, there are folks who are successful at it. I do, I would worry about the long term consequences, especially hormonally, you know, for some individuals, you know, as the career goes on. But that's definitely one extreme I just read about.

27:54Matthew Januszek:have you just going back to that stress one then is there anything else i know you that's sounds like that's not what you deal with with with some of your athletes on the stress side but is there is there anything that you've seen or any tools and the reason i ask is it is from time to time it becomes a thing that i'm conscious of and um needing to maybe have some whether it's tools or ways to break those patterns where you can just really quickly reset? Because I would imagine in a life or death situation, you certainly want to be thinking with a clear head. You probably already do a lot of this, Matthew, without even realizing it.

28:36I mean, it's perspective, right? It's conditioning. Like you talked about the fighters you particularly talked about are the ones from Dagestan. I've never been to Dagestan, but I imagine that's a hard country to grow up in. So when you grow up in Dagestan and somebody's punching you in the face in the cage for hundreds of thousands of dollars, you're like, this is an easy day. Right. The perspective there is different. So the more you can do challenging things, that's all the military does is, you know, it puts you in more challenging and challenging training environments. So when you get to those situations that, you know, such as warfare, it's not so unusual to be kind of under stress, sleep deprived and have to make decisions because you've done that in training.

29:18So any way that, you know, individuals can find ways to challenge themselves. I mean, that's why these races, I think, are such a great, safe way, like a Spartan race or, you know, something like that, where you get yourself outside of your comfort zone. Um, uh, this Friday, I'm going to do a go ruck, uh, you know, 26.2 mile ruck in Sedona. You know, it's, it's going to be a little uncomfortable. It's going to be a lot of fun. Um, but doing those sorts of things just also, you know, even me, I've, I've done some tough stuff, but I need that thing to kind of hone, you know, to keep the knife sharp, if you will.

29:53And I think we all need that. So do challenging stuff. And, you know, the definition of challenging is going to be different for really fit guys like you and Mo, you know, versus maybe some of the listeners, or maybe some of the listeners, it's a little higher, you know, what have you, but find those things that, you know, you look at that challenge and you're like, I don't know if I can do that, right? And do it. And whether you fail or whether you're successful, you're going to learn from it. And you're going to have that perspective to take forward. Well, look, growth always happens from discomfort.

30:23You don't grow without stressing the body. We've grown up with this notion that stress is a bad thing so much so that we are drugging ourselves as a society to get rid of the stress, but there's bad stress for sure, but so much of stress is actually good. And as a society, we've really taught ourselves to run towards comfort, to run towards couch, not to deal with stress at work, thought that stress at work is a bad thing, think that stress physically is a bad thing. No, it's a good thing because I think when you, to your point, Nick, when you do the hard thing. Everything is perspective. You mentioned fighters from Pakistan and what they've seen and lived through.

31:04One, they're in America, the greatest country in the world. They are getting paid to have fun in a cage, well, not in all cases, but to get beat up in a cage. But it's still a skill. It's an art. It's survival. And that survival instinct is not a bad thing. And when you talk about fighters being in combat, one, I want to thank you for your service, something that Matthew and I have not done, always aspired to be, and I have so much respect for those who have served because less and less of a population, as you probably know, Nick, are actually serving and know what it means to fight for our freedoms and to go defend our country and do the hard thing.

31:41But a lot of your training is not focused because it's meant to be every day. It's meant to get you beyond the point of comfort, beyond the point of waiting to be every day, such that when you do hit those hard times, that then seems normal and that your body and your mind can adapt to it. You know, chronic stress, not so good, right? If you know, day in and day out, you're wired, you feel like, you know, it's fight or flight, but those measured acute exposures to stress and more stress over time, right? Each time it ramps up a little bit. Again, if you look at the military model, when a soldier comes in the army, that's a lot of stress, that basic training, right?

32:19Like they're going from a civilian to that and they get exposed. But when you really look at it, it's not that stressful, but it's measured because that individual has never experienced anything like it. But then after they get through that, that's where you look at the other military courses. They get a little harder. They get a little harder and the levels keep going up. You know, even in special operations, there's levels to that and the different stressors. And because of that, you know, people get exposed to that. And then those individuals that you get out of that training pipeline or that assessment selection are very robust, gritty, resilient individuals that when you throw them in combat, they're going to do quite well.

33:01Matthew Januszek:It's got me thinking about my workout routine. And sometimes I use exercise as a way to switch off my mind, or to collect my thoughts and meditate on ideas, but it's not conscious. I'm not thinking about jumping over some boxes. But you do send me a lot of voice notes when you're running, so it is conscious. You get a lot of messages, and I can hear that you're running. yeah it's it's more i think it's more of a flow state i guess compared to probably what you're saying and i was it just got me thinking about certainly some of the adventure races and most conversation about spartan like that that is definitely different where there there is a lot of decision making under fatigue and i i was i was curious to know like when it comes to physical training how that steps up when it's when it's in the military like it is there a lot more of those combined skills that, that, that happen.

34:00Matthew Januszek:And, and what are your thoughts on that? Should, should we be building in some of those more, um, analytical types of, uh, programs or, or, or training when, when you're doing things? Cause now after I've had this conversation, I'm like, Oh, I need to probably include something in it where I'm having to create, make some big decisions when I'm really, really tired. Yes. You know, first and foremost, like you're doing great in terms of that baseline fitness. And most of the military training is not really exciting in terms of it's your basic fitness stuff, right? It's learning to control your body weight, getting an aerobic base, getting relative strength, all those basic things.

34:43Where it's beneficial that I've seen in some of the units I've served with is to have those training events, like you said, where you've got to make decisions, where you've got to carry things, where you've got to do these sort of challenges that are, there's not a clear cut way to do it, is fun both from an individual standpoint, but then a team building standpoint. It really, you know, builds that camaraderie and that culture when you do hard things together. Again, another thing, you know, the Spartan community has gotten nailed down. And then the last thing I'll throw out there, if you ever want a mental challenge, the unknown distance or the unknown kind of when the event will end, if you ever throw yourself into that, like that, that tool is so powerful.

35:28And I'll give you a quick example. I was, you know, doing the assessment selection when I was getting a ranger regiment and, you know, we did this march and the march was known. The distance was known. The time we needed to meet was known. And that was it. And then at the end of it, you're like, oh, okay, I'm done. and let me put it up. And they just started making us run. And they didn't say how far, they didn't say how long, and we didn't know, right? And I just remember being in my head thinking, how far are we going to, when is this going to stop me? And people quit, guys quit, and we were not running that fast either.

36:00It was, you know, a steady state. It would be an easy run for you, Mo. I think you're a pretty good runner, like, you know, light run, zone two, definitely. But what it was is, it was just like, you know, you start doing that exercise. And I remember, I just had to think in my head. I'm like, you know, no matter what happens, I'm going to die running. I don't care if I drop dead. I stopped. If I don't drop dead, I'm just going to keep going. And I had to kind of come to that in my head to let it go. Or otherwise it would keep spinning going. Are we going to go another hour is another miles, another two miles, another five miles and things like that.

36:31When you don't know the finish line, man, you'll play all sorts of games with yourself. It's a good time. I absolutely love that. What I tell people about long distance running is one, you just go out there and put one foot in front of the other. It's not about speed, but that mental element of it, there's so much that goes through your mind. And when you think through steady state running and not sprints and people say, how do you do it? It's so long. You just go out there and do it. and you feel so much better because of it. And I would tell you that the patience, the stoicness that comes from it is such a learning that I do one long run or one long ride a week.

37:10I do prefer runs over rides if I could do it, but too much long running as I'm getting older has an impact on my body. So I can't do it as often as I like. Yeah, I'm curious too, speaking about running and things like VO2 max and endurance, When I look at elite soldiers, right, Rangers, SEAL team, Delta teams, as kids we grew up thinking that it's these massive, muscled up people, like men or women. But really, when you meet them and you get to spend time with them, they're not that. They are actually lean. They're fit. They look like gazelles. They're efficient. They look like they can run forever.

37:50And walk me through that physicality of it. What is it about, like, what type of physical fitness does an elite soldier need to be in? Because I think as civilians, we can learn a lot from that. Yeah, you're right. You think of kind of the movies. You think of, you know, I grew up in the 80s, right? So, you know, Schwarzenegger, Commando, that's what you think of as a soldier. Rambo, right. And that big, you know, muscle isn't really beneficial necessarily on the battlefield because you've got to carry your own engine. Um, so a phrase that, you know, we would have a ranger regiment when we were looking at kind of building this, you know, what, what does the model look like in terms of physical training would be a supreme generalist.

38:34And what that means is you don't have any weak, you know, weaknesses in terms of endurance or strength. um so so for instance one of the most impressive individuals i worked with um who's who's a fitness you know really into fitness at regimen great great ranger you know had about a 500 pound deadlift which again if you look at like power lifting that's not elite that that's beyond you know that's not elite but he could run a 12 minute two mile which again if you look at running mode like you know like that's not you know that okay 12 minute two mile that's pretty good but if you throw put a 500 pound deadlift with a 12 minute two mile that's hard now you've got somebody who they're going to be able to pick up anything you want on that on that battlefield including you know a fellow uh you know soldier ranger what have you and they're going to have the aerobic capacity to get off that x right um so so that kind of fitness i think you see is like people who have a really good relative fitness who are going to be uh you know kind of like you said a gazelle and and to look at especially with the modern battlefield and this is where a lot of discussion with like drone warfare and things like that looking at what's going on in ukraine you could be able to run you better have agility you know to be able to crawl climb do all these sort of things so i think it's more kind of that like gazelle gymnast would be more the ideal you know soldier or warfighter um then sadly commando or rambo you know we started off talking about this

40:03Matthew Januszek:this mental part and the stress and any i i can't help thinking that the some of the athletes even though they may not necessarily be physically superior that there's got to be this overriding mental aspect where you you gave the example of the guys that are in the race and suddenly they're told it's not over some people just dropped out and other people like yourself are like okay well I'm going to run until I die. Like having that switch in your brain must have a massive impact on, on those people that, that, that succeed in this realm. And I, and I just wondered if that is the case, like, can you, in your experiences, have you found that that's something that you can teach?

40:43Yeah. I think it's, I think it's, you know, trainable because we, because we all, you know, I didn't come out of my, you know, my mother's womb like that. I don't think that's, I think that was from, uh, there's, there's probably a, you know, there's definitely probably some genetic component resilience. And I'll leave that for the, again, the neuroscientists and psychologists. But if you look at, you know, even where, you know, you guys are at or whatever, like, it's through experience, it's through falling down and getting back up. And same with the military, everybody kind of comes in at this starting point.

41:12You know, we're all kind of, you know, for lack of a better word, maybe a little soft coming in. And then it's built up over time. But, you know, again, what prepared me the most for the military was sports, was exercise, was, you know, my football coaches talked to me a lot, you know, just as harsh as any instructor in the military. So that, you know, having somebody yell at me, I was used to that by the time I got there. And I think that's a lot of it. And hopefully we don't lose that with, you know, this youth is, you know, playing sports, getting into exercise, getting all that, that's going to hone that resilience over time.

41:46So whether they want to use that superpower to go in the military and serve, or they want to go out in business and lead a great organization, either way, that can happen over time and you can become more resilient and you can become more gritty. Well, Nick, it's been great to have you on. Learned a lot today. One of the things that we'd like to do to wrap up our final episode, our episode of Lifts rather, is a final takeaway. So Matthew, I'd love to start with you. Do you have any key takeaways from this episode?

42:17Matthew Januszek:Yeah, I have. And it helped to prepare for this and get my head around. I guess you don't always appreciate the importance of what you do in your job or as a leader with fitness. As I said, mine was more about just feeling good about myself and maybe because I'm selling a fitness product that i at least want to look the part but i and you know when as i got into it i really recognized some of the under the surface skills and behaviors that can help me certainly stay on on top as i get a little bit older and i was 55 last week um but but i i think also in the type of training that i do and i now after a conversation i think i definitely need to search out something that either artificially creates that race where you think you're finished and you're not and and how to deal with that sort of you know become resilient when when you're facing this sort of never never ending treadmill although being in business can sometimes be like that I would say and then the second thing is is to find something that can allow me to develop skills when I'm fatigued so whether that's accuracy I know one of the we work with Ivan Ivanhoff who who trains a lot of professional wrestlers and and so one of the things he does he's really burns you out with a Bulgarian bag and then gets you to to strike a bag to see if you're if you're very accurate at punching and so I thought that was that was quite a nice nice sort of drill that I could put through my mind but I think it's trying to incorporate something in my training where I'm combining a mental aspect or mental skill with or during the time when I'm quite fatigued.

44:12Matthew Januszek:And I think maybe that'll help. Nick, what would you say is a couple of either sort of takeaways that we should probably give some more thoughts here after our conversation with you today? Yes. For a lot of folks, it's just mastering the basics, right? Getting the sleep down, getting the nutrition down, making sure you're hydrated. And then, yeah, finding those challenges i love it that you're going to commit you know matthew and go go find those challenges if anybody's you know up for a challenge i'm going to be doing the baton death march it's a marathon march in new mexico and uh and it'll be in march 2026 uh myself and a navy seal buddy shane constat will be out there if anybody wants to join us we'll we'll be doing it so you know sign up let me know message me um what is it what is what is that out there what what is just by the way like what what is that what kind of distance is it like the fact that it's called a death march it can't be a few miles yeah it's 26.2 miles in new mexico uh with a 30 pound ruck so uh so so again matthew you're welcome to join i'd love for you to have it yell on our team and then anybody listening to this anybody in the lives community uh want to join us uh you know come on out if you need that that challenge we'll have to talk about that math if you do it i'll do it.

45:33I'm in. It's funny you say that because I remember talking about Joe DeSena and Spartan. Spartan was actually called the death race. Originally, he had something called the death race up in Vermont and then hired a marketing firm. I don't know if she paid probably too much to say that. Maybe not a good idea if you want to go mass market. So then came up with the name Spartan. For me, the takeaway is around probably a couple of things. The first is simple execution. Don't overcomplicate it. Things you talked about, waking up, hydration, eating clean food, focusing on three colors over lunch. Make sure you have three colors on your plate.

46:08And then simple supplementation, creatine, something to improve your electric oxide, the protein, and so on. But then it's really about discipline and really doing the same thing, doing some things where you don't have to think, where it just seems natural. You're getting your body in a flow state so that when you do go off course, it doesn't feel all that bad. And then the third one, I would say it's getting yourself out of your comfort zone. Do something that is uncomfortable and resist the urge to just go into this level of constant comfort that we are, you know, for instance, I, we're getting to wintertime here.

46:53I love to run. I love to go outside. I love the cold, bring on the snow, bring on the early mornings. Like, I just love that. And I, because I know when I finish it, I feel so much better and I'm thriving the stillness. No one else is out there, right? I'm the only one out there and I'm in a very highly productive part of, I live in the DC area, a lot of highly productive people here. And then you see that other person with the lamp on and you're like, man, that guy's doing it, that woman's doing it. And you just feel incredible. So I challenge everyone to, I think, don't overcomplicate nutrition or sleep or any other things.

47:30I would say then simple nutrition, discipline, and then challenge yourself to do something hard every day that gets out of your comfort zone.

47:42Matthew Januszek:Well, look, that's it, Nick. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm definitely going to give some thought to this death race. I need to figure out what 26 miles of walking with a backpack on is actually like. You could do it. You could do it. But if not, thanks very much for joining us today. And I hope you've enjoyed this episode. A little bit different from normal. Definitely an inspiring one. And if you have enjoyed this, said, like, we do have a lot of people listening to the podcast, but if you do enjoy anything that you've got from here, if you could do us a favor and just like a subscriber, even leave a comment, what that helps us to do is it triggers the algorithm and it allows us to get this out to more people, which ensures that we can bring on wonderful guests like Nick on a regular basis.

48:30Matthew Januszek:So thanks again for everyone for listening and speak to you next week.

48:40Thank you.