LIFTS Episode 107 - Los Angeles Pilates Journal Expo 2026 Part 1 of 2: Inclusivity, Innovation & What Comes Next

27:32But I draw the line sometimes because now at this point in my career, I know people are going to see me doing things and then go and try it. so sometimes even teaching here i'm like you know what i want to give a challenging workout but i got to keep the risk factor low because it's a large group so do you think a lot of it has come

27:52Matthew Januszek:from the fact that in order to market yourself your studio that really the things that make the algorithm work are the things that are a little bit crazy um but from a business perspective as as you say, these are things that are probably going to create a lot of issues. And, and so I'm, I'm, I'm just interested in your perspective as an industry, it seems as though, but we have the same issues in the, in the gyms with fitness equipment is that, you know, there's a lot of money gone into the industry. It's expanding really quickly. And there's probably not the level of instruction, both on the manufacturers and on the trainers to be able to provide the correct information and education in order to prevent some of these issues.

28:39Matthew Januszek:So what do you think is the, you know, where should the industry be thinking about? Because it sounds like it's still got some growing up to do if you're involved in these types of issues. Yeah. I think a lot of it, I don't think it's the company's fault. I think a lot of it is the teachers. It's like the teachers themselves wanting to keep their clients safe. And I love when I travel because in the United States, we're also worried about being sued. And then I go into other countries and they're like, what? And I'm like, oh my gosh, no one here ever gets sued. So like there's the legal stuff about it, but then there's just like the straight up emotional part of it.

29:18It feels crappy when someone actually like falls or gets hurt when you're teaching it. So I think a lot of it actually has to come from the actual teachers. I think there's education out there. I love that this conference is sold out. People came out to learn. And I think if, again, if you have the passion for this, really, if you really have the passion for this and for teaching people, you naturally want to learn. I try to train teachers to stay curious about things, not just do what I do, but like actually be curious about it. So listen, equipment manufacturers, they want to sell equipment.

29:57that's what I would do if I was selling equipment I'm going to make it look sexy and great and whatever and throw someone on there with a shirt off on one hand right it's it's clever marketing I don't think we can like blame the people selling equipment that's their job it's really on the people that are using the equipment to like think you know and also to build your business from people that understand the practice and it's not just, you know, going to tone their legs and tone their whatever, but it's actually going to teach them how to move better, how to actually be in their bodies better, not just have big biceps.

30:38And like, I like it. I'm not saying don't do it, but it's just so much more fulfilling when you're actually making a difference, not only in someone's biceps but like the 90 year old that can climb up the stairs or you know someone who's insecure in their body stand up a little bit taller right huge difference speaking of equipment are you familiar do you remember a few months ago aldi's launched this really 199 199 do you see that yeah yeah the thing that spins no it's a grocery store that launched a 199 a 200 dollar reformer that was based off of elastic bands oh yes yes i've seen i've seen yeah and it's caused injuries and issues but it was sold out and then people took it home and they used it there was no instruction and it was just i think it kind of went south and i think they've since stopped

31:31Matthew Januszek:selling it i believe that's the problem like you get all this in some ways i do think the manufacturers are kind of responsible because the amount of like you have a conversation off camera where, you know, it's the trend. And so anyone that can make money can produce a, you know, cheap reformer in China or somewhere like that. And, you know, the springs, I don't know what the common issues are, but, you know, there's a combination of responsibility for people who are manufacturing this stuff. But then also, I guess, having the instructors that take it seriously enough to recognize that you are responsible for someone and you really need to take it upon yourself to understand how to keep them safe.

32:11Matthew Januszek:And so I don't know what the sort of issues that you end up looking at, but where do you see some of the, you know, what's at the core of the cases where you sit on them? Is it down to sort of negligence from the trainer or like where is the heart of the problem? You know, there are always going to be accidents, right? Where the trainer's doing everything they're supposed to do. I mean, If someone's holding something like a, you know, it's like becomes a slingshot sometimes. And if a client just lets go of a slingshot and you're standing next to them, you know, like there's nothing you could do if they just let go.

32:47So there are accidents, but then there are just teachers that are not informed or they're not thinking about things. So there is negligence. There is negligence on the side of the education and on the side of the teachers. um but but sometimes it falls on the other side too where there's there's nothing that could I mean there's risk in everything right I also don't want people to be so terrified of Pilates right it's to me a lot it's a lot safer than doing a back handspring yeah you know it's a lot uh we're much safer than I think all the CrossFit stuff that's happening so it's not again it's not that Pilates itself is dangerous, but it's just having teachers who are being like open.

33:36It's like not rocket science either. You know, it's not rocket science. One final question. What about this industry or brand? Is there a brand specifically that excites you the most or is there a shift that you see that's happening that excites you the most? Well, I want to go back and say that one thing is that, and this is not an exaggeration, I get reached out to almost every single day from a manufacturer in China wanting to know if they can make a reformer for me and then I can sell it with my name on it. And I have not done that.

34:10Matthew Januszek:And the reason why? Particularly for where I am in my career, I will only teach on very reputable equipment. And what I mean by that is equipment that I know it's the heart and soul of what they do, that they are real Pilates people and their equipment has been tested, right? Tried and trued and they, you know, the weakness of the spring, they know all the things. They know all the things and they're taking care of that. The most exciting thing that has happened, well, I guess like the most exciting thing is also the scariest thing which is like all this technology and the you know like the peloton model of having a screen and yeah and uh doing it training with it with a teacher and then of course then how safe is that going to be also um pilates is not for everybody some people don't have the concentration to be there okay you know that's bold yeah it isn't it's not for everybody so it's really technology is a good thing because it provides accessibility.

35:20And in some ways, it does standardize the instructor, right? Because if instructors have all these varying levels, at least you get that piece. Right, exactly. At least you're getting a high quality people. Now, I teach on Pilates anytime. And so, you know, I'm online and people train with me and they're getting good instruction if they're listening to me. You know, I'm telling them, I'm not there. I can't stop them. But I am saying don't step here. Make sure you step this way. Make sure you're not too far back on the box. Make, you know, so I'm drawing their attention to things that could go wrong.

35:55But, you know, there's all kinds of people that don't pay attention to anything you said. Have you guys taught fitness? No, we have not taught fitness. Oh, you guys should. Why? You should just try to teach somebody what you think is a simple movement try to teach somebody i don't think a squat and you'll be shocked it is i mean i i think i don't do it because i know it's difficult i have done things like ride podium at a soul cycle class a few times yeah um and that is just it is it is a skill it's a skill it is a skill i think and i think translating that to something on camera is another skill also so i think i i are

36:33Matthew Januszek:you sort of saying then really you you people can underestimate how difficult it is to actually successfully teach people particularly through a digital format safely because more digital yeah yeah both so so to your point then digital could be good but also it could be a risk if not done correctly is that everything's a risk if not done correctly but you can be right there next to your client holding their hand and it could still not be done correctly that's just the nature of the game. So then if you know you got a client like that, then you're taking all the risk factor out. You know, you have to adapt.

37:12We have to make sure motion is straight ahead. The back is supported. It's safe. We're not doing anything complicated. You just have to kind of teach to what is in front of you. Now you get somebody else that's a great mover, who's strong, then you can do whatever who's a great listener who has good focus like that when if you're really teaching pilates that's one of the most important things it's not how strong people are it's how focused

37:38Matthew Januszek:they are yeah that's quite interesting yeah i can imagine that because i'm not in that camp i sometimes you know you have to tell me 10 different ways and till i get it um and and having someone that particularly someone like pilates i think i would struggle someone on the screen to do it Like I need you to like be showing me all the things for it to go into my head because you're sort of thinking of other stuff. Yeah. So I think that's interesting. And would you say Pilates and he's different from, and I guess I'm answering the question, but from other forms of exercise like strength training or HIIT training, you know?

38:12Matthew Januszek:Totally. Well, and again, it's always back to the eye of the beholder. Now, Pilates is changing a lot. I've taught a workout that's a HIIT workout. I am definitely adding strength training to what we do at Bodyline. I'm very interested. I'm going to be 60. So I'm in that category of people that needs to like really be doing strength training and incorporating that in. What did you ask me? Well, I was asking if, you know, and I've because I don't do Pilates. So I was learning that from an instructor or instructional material, is it quite different to teach something like Pilates? because of the concentration requirement than a strength training workout or soul cycle or whatever.

38:55Well, we don't do those sets and now you've got time in between to recover. Typically, again, talking traditionally, it's a nonstop flow, right? And breath awareness and concentration is part of it. That's part of the benefit. So Pilates, when taught well, is almost like a moving meditation. That's what it is for me, right? So it's very different concept. in that way, that whole mind-body part of it. And what it does a lot of is functional strength, right? Functional strength. So that was a lot of the attraction. And back in the day, because one of the first groups of people to really take to Pilates were professional dancers, and plus Pilates was located in New York City, right next to School of American Ballet.

39:45And so a lot of ballet dancers were the first sort of disciples of Pilates. So then it became synonymous with long, lean body. And I, of course, on Instagram, it's like this whole Pilates body thing, right? Because a lot of us in the industry, which is not me, I don't have the typical dancer body, but long, lean, you didn't want to build muscle. And there was a time and a place clients would come into me and say, well, I don't want to get, I don't want to make my legs bigger. I don't want to make my arms bigger. Or like, that's not work out my biceps at all. Cause I don't want them to get bigger.

40:24Like that was a thing for a long time. And Pilates, we did not, we would say we don't cause hypertrophy. Like you're not, we're not building muscle. We're not trying to build muscle tissue so that was great until cut to well now you're over 40 and your muscle loss is accelerating yeah it's accelerated and so like this is like a new concept it was a new concept for me i i honestly i was like oh my god what am i doing i'm losing muscle mass i i can't just do pilates or i have to change the way i'm doing pilates like like the house was on fire Like, oh my God, why didn't I know this? So now I'm changing things up.

41:11And it's affecting even how I'm teaching Pilates, like with the spring load and adding things that are not traditional, like big no-nos that would not be Pilates. I would be called out. I'm sure I'm going to be called. I get called out a lot still by people who say I don't teach Pilates. That's how kind of dysfunctional parts of our industry are.

41:35Matthew Januszek:Well, look, thank you. We could talk for a long time. We certainly could. I love talking about this stuff. I could talk and talk and talk about it. Well, thank you very much for your time and for your insight. I've learned so much from this very short conversation. And you will definitely, I mean this. Please come to my studio and let me train you if you're ever in Beverly Hills. Please come as my guest. You're pretty close. Have you ever done Pilates? I've done it once at Equinox in Newport. but I feel I should make an effort. I would love to train you just to give you a real taste of it. I do do Pilates.

42:10You do do Pilates? Yes. Oh, good. I'm glad to hear that. Well, I'm excited to speak to Andrea Spear. Yes. And we'll get into your Pilates company and all the different things that you do. But we've run into each other and been introduced a couple of times and you've been working with a few brands and I'm excited to learn about what you're going to be doing next. You're definitely well-respected. in the Pilates industry. In fact, the person that we just had on prior to you said that she was trained by you as well. So that's really exciting. So we were at the Pilates Journal Conference, the first time they're having it in the US.

42:43And I was really excited to see CJ bring it over here just because Pilates is literally everywhere. And we're both in the industry and I'm still trying to get Matthew to a class, but it is everywhere. It's kind of taken over the world in this category. So thank you for coming on. Yeah. Thanks for having me.

43:07Matthew Januszek:You were having a chat earlier and talking about classical and traditional, which I didn't understand. Classical and contemporary. Oh, classical and contemporary. So maybe start there. Like give us or give me an understanding of what's the difference of the two and why you chose a particular route? Yeah, so we started Spear Pilates 10 years ago. And at the time, the Pilates industry was so different than it is now. We're having such a boom with Pilates in this moment. But 10 years ago, it was mostly private Pilates studios. So I'd been teaching at that point for 10 plus years, doing just one-on-one sessions, but immersing myself in other modalities and collecting other certifications in spin, ballet bar, personal training, and infusing parts of those modalities into my private Pilates training.

44:00So adding in high-intensity interval training, prop use, dumbbells, heavier lifting, and experimenting with how that would reach other folks. And so my goal then, and it still is to this day with Spear, is to make Pilates more accessible and inclusive. And one of the things with the style was classical Pilates is what Joseph Pilates designed in his exact order with the exact exercises. So with contemporary, it was folks like me starting to take these other ideas of fitness training and infuse it into the integrity of Pilates. So we're keeping the methodology, which, you know, things from how we cue and how we connect with clients to, you know, he brings clients from lying to sitting to standing, working from the core.

44:56There's all these specific things he does. So it's keeping that, but starting to add in elements that someone who's used to going to the gym could come in and take a class and it wouldn't feel as daunting. So that was one of my things is how do I get my clients to reach their goals. If it's a 49 year old woman, and I know she needs to start focusing on bone density if she hasn't already, I need to start fusing in time under tension, progressive overload, all of these different elements from strength training into her work on Reformer. And those folks kind of playing with the method, that's where contemporary came from.

45:34So it's keeping that integrity, but adding in these other modalities.

45:37Matthew Januszek:One of the things that I see with Pilates is the way that resistance is added is by using springs. So going back to your approach where you're fusing different things in there, if we kind of break it down to its sort of like base parts, what about the springs is quite unique in the way that you get a training effect from your perspective, would you say? Well, the great thing about the reformer is you can adjust the springs for an all-level class. Everybody can be working to the level that they need. And what you need day to day, so if you slept funny last night or want to focus more on X, Y, or Z, you can play with the weights.

46:24And one thing, actually, I'm looking at as I forecast where we're going next with the market, we're having this huge, like we said, we're having this huge global boom of Pilates. right now and exploding on digital as well. So it's everywhere. And what we're seeing and what I'm seeing at the studios is people are coming in and applying to work that may or may not be certified at this point. So there's a lot of influencers that are teaching reformer inspired workouts online or trying to come in. So as I look at what's happening, I think the saturation of our market is actually a huge opportunity in that it's asking folks who understand the methodology of Pilates and the value of it to step into their expertise.

47:12But we also don't want to say that's not what the market is. That's not what's happening. It is what's happening. So you have to embrace it, understand it, or get left behind or, you know, awash in this, all of the targeted digital ads that everybody's getting. So back to your point, I think it's a lot of what are the conversations being had right now? What do folks need? What are they looking for? And I'm not saying you give up what Pilates is, but how are we speaking to these clients? How are we looking at our class programming and the names and showing them that we teach what they're looking for.

47:57Because from the client's perspective, this is super confusing too. They don't know who teaches what they need. So it's us stepping into the knowledge that we have to show them that we have that offering, including heavier lifting, strength training, stuff that feels more accessible to them as well. I've seen a big change. I've been in the industry for about 15 years. I've been in fitness almost my whole life. And I remember the first Pilates experience I took was at an Equinox in the city. Yeah, me too. I got a free session. Yeah, and it's behind this class kind of door. And yes, because they're trying to get you to take these private classes, but it was incredibly exclusive, both the megaformer and also just even the fact that you have this door and kind of peering in to something that is beyond reach.

48:42Yeah. And now we're seeing equipment come onto the floor. To your point, digital has played such a significant role in providing accessibility. But even the evolution of the modality to it being, I think it's an industry more from the Pilates side. There was this air of exclusivity saying, no, classical Pilates is that in fact, a lot of classical Pilates people, I remember speaking to them five, seven years ago. They almost looked down on contemporary. They're nervous because it's different. But I do understand where they're coming from because you see people coming in and to use, you know, a phrase throwing spaghetti against the wall and seeing what sticks.

49:25They're training to algorithms, not bodies, which is something else I like to say, where you see something online and you just go teach it to a bunch of people. That's not necessarily what they need for their bodies. So because that's happening, it's making the classical folks nervous because it's losing sight of what makes Pilates special and unique and why it exists.

49:47Matthew Januszek:And just to jump in on that then, so if you take away the terminology, Pilates, from what I understand, you've kind of got this spring-based resistance. And I've seen a number of different machines. So you've got the ones that are sort of like a bed. And it gets harder. So the further you go out, it actually gets harder. So it's like a progressive type of resistance. It is progressive. The maximum weight is at the point of extension. Okay. And then you do this point of extension. You've got to hit claspery. And then you do these movements, right? And the micro movements. And that's really where you're using your whole body and stability and imbalances get corrected.

50:23Matthew Januszek:So that's what I'm thinking. If you take all of the words away from it and look at the machines in terms of what they're doing. So really, if you boil it down to what works about Pilates, it's a way of sort of strength training. But, you know, a lot of the small muscles and the way the resistance works, let's say different to maybe a dumbbell, is that you get that resistance right at the end of the range. And so when you're thinking about your contemporary, where you do things contemporary, are you sort of thinking about it in terms of starting with the client, as you said, and what they need and how you can apply this style of adding resistance?

51:04Matthew Januszek:Or how are you thinking about your direction for training your clients? Yeah, that's for me with my programming, I think about it, even though I'm a classically certified teacher, I look at it more from a strength training perspective of programming blocks. So no matter who it is, I'm going to warm up their body. And based on what I know, I'm going to be working and targeting with them. I know I'm going to warm up everything, posterior, anterior. We use the springs again to help either with control and support, or we take them away to remove support and stability. And then I work upper body, core, lower body, and then I'll do a cool down.

51:48So I look at it in this three block, three to five block programming. And my springs, the interesting thing about Pilates is springs could either help you by holding the carriage in while you do a bridge, you know, lifting your hips up and down, or you take all those springs away and it is hard. That's all body holding it in. And so sometimes they're helpful. Sometimes, you know, taking them away makes it more challenging. And that is a unique thing about Pilates, that you have to really understand the body to know how to alter those springs for your client.

52:23Matthew Januszek:Because I guess it's almost like from, and I've done one, I did it Equinox many years ago. That's the only time I did it. But I guess, I guess so, so almost like controlling this machine is, is that you've got that kind of balance that's going on because the machine's sort of moving you in different directions. So you almost got the balance and the strength going on at the same time. Yeah. And the reformer is great because it puts you in proper alignment. So the shoulder blocks put your shoulders in the right place. You learn what, you know, your neutral spine, all these things that we say, but you don't necessarily need to throw an anatomy lesson at your client, but you're teaching them how to take it into their daily lives and universal truths, all of that, that they can, that can be applicable.

53:09So I think that's a big thing for instructors to understand is you want to sprinkle in anatomy. So they're learning why they're doing things, but not dump a bunch of information on them. And they have no clue what you're talking about. It's, we need to meet in the middle on that, but yeah. So essentially it's resistance training from the core. And, you know, even if If you're doing something lighter, it's all about going in the stabilizing side, getting your hip in proper alignment, working around the joint. That's unique to Pilates. It's probably why you see a lot of Pilates recommended in PT as well.

53:41Totally. I just want to shift gears slightly kind of given where you're taking Pilates, GLP-1 in my neighborhood.

53:49Matthew Januszek:You have to get GLP-1s in. You've got to get GLP-1s in because, look, I always sit in my neighborhood, everyone's skinny now. I live in just outside of DC and the growth of Pilates and how many, even speaking to my neighbors who say, okay, I've got on a GLP one and I started taking Pilates. There's so much that Pilates offers for people who haven't worked out before. If you're looking for a guided class or a method, it's so good because it combines cardio and zone two cardio. It combines strength. It combines how much attention. Have you seen an evolution or more people entering the modality because of GLP-1 or has that influenced how you think about your programming?

54:34Not too much. I know clients that are on GLP-1s, but they were already in Pilates. So I have no doubt that it is allowing folks who maybe aren't as comfortable going to a gym and knowing what to do to enter fitness in a smaller group class. So it's not a private session. It's more affordable with cost and they're getting one-on-one guidance in a low impact way. So it is a great way to enter a fitness regimen. But in LA, it's mostly the clients that were already in from what I've seen. Right. And who knows what market does. And there's probably more people who are on it that we don't even know about.

55:16Well, it's been a pleasure having you on. Hey, I've got a quick question I want to ask as well. Go for it. Ask me or her.

55:22Matthew Januszek:Yeah. Do you see there's, and this is my perception, but like with you being a little bit more contemporary, like is there a division between the people that want to keep it as it is and the people that are maybe more progressive? Is there a sort of like a divide or does everybody sort of live quite happily with the two directions? Like where would you say the industry is now with with those sort of two directions? There's still a divide. I would say the divide might be growing larger with this, the big boom that we're seeing right now with studios opening right and left. I do think though, I see a lot of negativity on social media, especially when someone will post something and the comment section is kind of, you know, tearing apart that person saying that's not Pilates.

56:10I think it really is this moment back full circle to what we started talking about in the beginning with the opportunity of the saturation is for that instructor who wrote the negative comment to look at that and see why does that make you uncomfortable? How are you solving for that in your own offering? And how are you marketing to that? How are you letting people know your product is different than that? So we need to come together as an industry and support each other because if, you know, people have good experiences everywhere that It benefits everybody. One person goes to a studio, has a bad experience.

56:43They're not necessarily coming back to anyone. So it benefits all of us to do things like we're doing today, coming together at the Pilates Journal Expo, having conversations, forming a strong community and having these real conversations because it's in the best interest that we do come together and focus on unity in that sense.

57:03Matthew Januszek:And the last one, you mentioned that the market is starting to get quite saturated. I know obviously the big cities, LA and New York, they're everywhere. And there's got to be a point where, you know, suddenly it's going to, the market's going to crash slightly. Like where do you see the market at the moment in those big cities? And what do you see is likely to happen when suddenly the competition is so much that people are having to compete on price because there's more supply than there is demand? Yeah. Yeah. I see that the studios that have been around for a long time are sticking with what worked five to 10 years ago.

57:43And that's a dangerous place to be because they're not adjusting their marketing to speak to this person who's used to AI powered personalization, metrics and data and all of these things that we're learning as a society. This is becoming a part of us. These studios from before are stuck in what they always did. And the newer studios are putting out their aesthetic photos. They're marketing on social media. They're doing all of these things, but their product hasn't necessarily been thought through as much. And I'm generalizing, you know. so where I think the give and the take here is is people will go to the aesthetic studio but they won't stick with it we need these studios that have been around for a long time to start to have conversations about marketing their product and speaking to these clients to get them in it's affecting everybody because we're losing clients through membership retention is dropping because they want to try everything.

58:44They have so many options. So you see just a huge dip. People are still coming in, but they're not committing to membership. So that's one of the biggest changes that I've seen having studios for 10 years and seeing this whole wave happen to survive all of this. It is looking at this in how do we get these members in? So at my studio, We're doing things like once a month R &D classes with our members, showing them something that we're playing with, getting their feedback, pouring into them monthly perks for members that aren't necessarily discounts or sales or specials. But what's the value of being a part of this community and looking at it beyond programming and marketing and all of those things?

59:30It's really how do we create a culture around this so it's not just show up whichever studio your friend's going to that day and we can grow that membership base back up. One quick question. Is ClassPass a friend or a foe in your perspective? ClassPass is tough because it is a friend in the sense that it gets you in front of a lot of people through a different app. But it is a foe to your memberships. Because when you talk about the consumer going to move around and rotate around, I would think that ClassPass has a role to play in that. Not a lot of conversion from ClassPass because they want to be able to go lots of places and you don't make very much profit from a ClassPass spot in your studio.

1:00:19So it is a foe. The positive is if you are a new studio, especially in a new region. Gives you the traffic. Everybody sees you pop up on a big app. So they all come in and then it's up to you to try to get them to come in. But it is a harder sell. Okay. Well, thank you so much for being on. Thank you. Yeah. That was great. Yeah, of course. We're here with CJ Zarb, the founder of the Pilates Journal.

1:00:42Matthew Januszek:Can you give us a bit of an overview? So for anyone who's listening to the podcast now, we've got a number of great presenters and guests on. You recommended a number of these people to us. Give us a bit of an idea on some of the people that you chose and why you thought they'd be interesting guests for this interview. Absolutely. So the Pilates industry these days is really diverse. There's so many exciting things that are happening in the industry at the moment. It's booming, it's growing, and so many different people are taking the industry in different directions. So what we curated over this weekend at the Expo was really an opportunity to hear from voices that perhaps some parts of the industry don't often hear a lot from.

1:01:24but also some industry leaders who are allowing the freedom in the movement and the expression of the movement and creating license to do things differently which is kind of exciting for the industry at large. It's a very old industry you know it's a hundred years old it's been around for a long time but of course not everyone's heard of it or experienced it or felt it out in their bodies. The magic of Pilates is really about the time spent in it to understand it deeper and what that can give to you through your life, the different lifestyles, your career, your mindset, but also your ability to synthesize information and understand movement in your body and what you can do as an athlete or whatever sport you love or love to enjoy.

1:02:14So we've curated a bunch of people here who are leaders in the field, people who are shaping the industry in Pilates, People like Maria Leone from Bodyline LA. Maria has been in the industry 30 years. She has a pedigree unlike most. What Maria brings to the conversation is she's a master trainer for Balanced Body, one of the biggest companies in the Pilates industry at the moment, but she brings a lens of contemporary into this conversation and license to see things slightly differently and really work more closely with what the client needs in that moment in the modern day world. So she brings that lens.

1:02:53Tracy's been around, Tracy Mallett, for a very long time as well. Tracy has a background as a real entrepreneur in the space. She's really worked in the bar side of things, the bar method. She's really lent into Pilates in creating platforms to help instructors grow and thrive, helping them on their career path and their trajectory to become better teachers. And then we've got people like Sean Bergara, amazing human. And Sean is really sort of pushing the boundaries of Pilates, right? I'm sure you guys will have a fabulous conversation with him about that. And Sean is really getting people to reassess strength training and athleticism through the reformer, through other apparatus, and challenging the notions of what can be done with that equipment.

1:03:38So it's really exciting to hear him pushing the boundaries as well. We've got other people as well, like Andrea Speer. She's obviously a really, really cool operator and also someone that has that real enthusiastic nature, entrepreneurial spirit. The Spear brand in Pilates is huge in our industry. It's also a very contemporary vibe, bringing in younger demographics into the Pilates industry. So she's targeting people that perhaps wouldn't have gone down Pilates as their preferred workout method, but has their deep roots in the classical system. So she just understands the roots that make Pilates so unique and so special.

1:04:16So we've got lots of different people across the weekend that bring lots of different skill sets and really inspire people. And it's interesting because your conference and your brand is called the Pilates Journal. And one of the things that I've learned over the last couple of years is I've gotten more into Pilates is that even the term Pilates has some controversy around it. When you think about, and you've named your event based off of Pilates, it really is, and just to what you've explained, it really is this broadening of the tent. It's about expanding the tent. And inclusivity is a theme that I keep on hearing over and over again, even walking through the expo.

1:04:57How do you view the term Pilates? Yeah, great question. To your point, it's really about inclusivity and accessibility. and the way we do that is by broadening the term of Pilates. That's a really important critical thing that the Pilates Journal does. We give voice to lots of different types of Pilates in the industry. We're not laying judgment or space on what's right and what's wrong. Every industry has different levels and layers of things. What we want to do is give more people access to and really open up the conversation of what this can look like as long as there's foundations there. There's foundations that I'm sure many of the other presenters talk to you about.

1:05:36Joseph Pilates created it. You know, he had very strong ideas on what that is, but people took it from him and also adapted it. So the methods always had some adaption. We're just having intelligent conversations about what that is now and what that does for different bodies. So it's an exciting time to be doing that. And for me, Pilates is really about creating this community where there is a place for everybody. Everybody in Pilates talks about there's a space for Pilates for everyone. Pilates is for everyone. It's kind of the language we use within the community. But we need to demonstrate that outward and make more people feel like it's accessible to them.

1:06:14Matthew Januszek:Prior to coming to here, we did a predictions episode a few weeks ago on where we think the industry was going in the next 12 months. And one of the things I said is I feel that this Pilates boom will hit a bit of a ceiling. Certainly in some of the major markets, I felt there's a lot of competition and almost saturation, which is reflective of some of the conversations we've had. How would you describe where the Pilates category is today in terms of where it's come from and where you think it's probably going? You know, I think it's still in the growth phase. There's no question about it. We're really in this growth phase of people understanding what the method can do for you and what it can achieve.

1:06:57And we're taking people on board that bus at the moment and trying to get people to understand it, whether that be through brands like Pilates Addiction, brand new brand to the market, really kind of bringing in that Generation Z, Alphas, giving them an experience of Pilates for the first time. But of course, they're coming with a different mindset into the category. You know, they're health and wellness driven often. So they're kind of looking at it at a different perspective. I think what we're doing is Pilates is on the up, but we are also getting more refined in understanding what the customers want out of it.

1:07:30And the more we have these major groups like Strong Pilates or Pilates Addiction, as I mentioned, what we're doing is we're giving people not only access, but understanding of where they can take their career in Pilates or their personal journey in Pilates. so it's still I think so many people still don't understand quite what Pilates is you know they're still working out actually what what they're doing when they're there and more and more different types of people are trying it for the first time which is fantastic but they're still probably getting one experience of Pilates and I think there's another thing to understand there is that what you may have experienced once before and you go someone else can be completely different which for many other modalities when it comes to you know movement is not necessarily the case and that's quite special and unique to Pilates so how do we harness that how do we make that game changing about what makes Pilates different within the broader modality set for sure I think it's an exciting conversation we have a lot of our listeners who are operators but we also have a lot of vendors and suppliers listening um to this podcast and I could speak to one as myself Certainly you can as well, Matthew, but when a vendor should think about Pilates, it needs a nuanced approach to it.

1:08:51You just can't apply what you apply to boutique fitness. To the people who are listening, number one, why should they come to your event and follow you and follow what's happening in Pilates? but just talk through the nuances with this modality, with this industry and why vendors cannot just take an approach that works somewhere else in fitness and just bring it right into Pilates. It's a great question. It's a really great question. I think there's a couple of things here. So with Pilates, there's so much depth to the method and that sounds simplistic to say, but it is something that grows with you through stages, as I mentioned earlier.

1:09:31And it is a thing where the longer you do anything, you get better at it. You get better at the skill. You understand the skills required to action something, to fire a muscle, to make something change in the body, to shift something. Pilates gives you that education set. And it's also something you can take into other exercise modalities, right? So you are applying the skills you learn in that class into everyday life, improving your posture, improving your golf swing, whatever that might look like. So even when you're not realizing it, you're getting a byproduct from it. And I think that's what makes it unique.

1:10:04When it comes to vendors understanding this audience, it's a different audience. It really is because at the heart of the conversation is body-mind spirit, body-mind connection. You can put something out on the floor, but if people don't get it, they don't understand, it doesn't make sense in their bodies, they're not going to stay in the method. The best examples in the industry of people that have really thrived are those who are able to tap into people feeling it on all those three things. And I think they're also challenging people as well. Sometimes people go to Pilates and say, I didn't feel much, you know, I didn't, I didn't really quite make sense to me, or it's a too slow.

1:10:45That's just the environment of that class, that, that situation you're in. And as a vendor, you can create an experience now. Pilates can be very experiential, right? Just like I mentioned, Pilates addiction is very much skewed to a certain style. They have the beautiful neon lights. They have the mirrors on the walls. The gold plated machine. The gold plated machine, you know, they're creating an experience and Pilates has really leaned into that experience. But with that comes, there has to be an outcome to that class because people won't come back if it's not feeling any, if they're not getting the results.

1:11:16And I mean, that's probably across most fitness modalities, but I think what makes Pilates unique is that they might not be able to put their hand on what's different, but they know there's a change. And so they keep coming back for more. And they say in Pilates, you know, in 10 classes, you'll feel it in 20, you'll start to understand it. But by 30, you'll really be understanding why you're here. And you find that with a lot of clients and you find that with vendors too they start to understand it's a different audience well we have to get you started on your journey with class number one and then at 30 you could tell us how you feel you can always join us tomorrow morning matt in a matt class we're more than happy to i've had a number

1:11:57Matthew Januszek:of offers which i'm going to be taking up and we'll do a follow-up on that but one of the things i wanted to say for for people who are listening that are not familiar with you guys or the event first thing i want to say is that i've been doing fitness events for 25 years around the world and been sponsors, vendors, been doing podcasts. And I have to say, I have to congratulate you guys for the attention to detail and for the operational excellence that you've done on this. It's a fantastic venue. The timings, the interaction with people has been impressive. The other thing I'd like to ask you is give us a little bit about your background so we can sort of appreciate how you've been able to pull off such a fabulous event.

1:12:40Matthew Januszek:and then secondly what is your plan to take these on the road or to expand uh in future yeah sure so my background was in journalism media PR so I started my career very early on in tv and cut my teeth there and really learned a lot about content and how important it is and the power of that content um long before podcasts were really a thing um and then from there I worked in marketing and corporate worlds. I did my MBA. I kind of did all those different things through my career. I was a dancer at a young age. So movement was always at my base and my core. And then it got to a certain stage where I felt in my corporate career, I wasn't being so challenged that I wanted to find something else.

1:13:27And this was an opportunity where Pilates was something I felt very attracted to. It made sense to me. I could challenge myself. I could challenge other people. I got a real kick out of being a teacher where you could make a difference in someone else's body or the way they think about how they go about doing something in their body and really make a critical difference. And I think it was those things that set me up to realize that there wasn't a community that tied everyone together within Pilates. There was a missing link. There's lots of different groups within Pilates that sit, very esteemed bodies, training bodies doing great work in their communities, but they'd always sat siloed.

1:14:07And what I wanted to do was bring them together and make them realize that we are better as a whole. We can really thrive off each other. We can bring in and grow our community more when we learn off each other, the skill sets and understand what our competitors are doing rather than doing everything in the shadows. So bringing everyone together, creating that community, creating that sense of what we're doing every day with the Pilates Journal is shaping the conversations and the future of what Pilates will look like. Every time people are having a conversation down the hallways here at the expo, it's another link for them to say, well, we were looking into that too.

1:14:43You're doing something similar. Should we combine ideas and should we collaborate and make something bigger and stronger? And that's what this weekend's all about. No, I think that that's so important because you've created the space. And a lot of times the companies upstairs would just join a regular fitness conference, which is still important, But in a lot of ways, the conversations that they're having as it relates to the modality, the evolution of the modality, the equipment, the community, the aesthetics of a studio are really unique to Pilates. You don't really hear much about aesthetics when we're talking to a Crunch or Planet Fitness or Big Box.

1:15:19You know, that doesn't matter. But the attention to detail that you've put forth on the conference is actually a good representation of how studios think about it. And that's why it's so important that you've got to pay attention to the details here. Well, we're excited. I'm excited for tonight and this evening and the Fireside Chat. And we just want to thank you for having us here again. It's been amazing, guys. I'm looking forward to this evening as well.

1:15:42Matthew Januszek:And what's next, by the way, on the calendar? Yes. Yes. So it hasn't been announced yet, but there will be another U.S. Expo. In 26th? Yeah. Okay. So we'll be in touch soon to let you know more details. but we sold out. We had a great experience. Day one, everyone's having a great time. So we know we're on the right trajectory. It was always the plan to head in this direction, but now onwards and upwards and let's grow it bigger, deeper, get more of the community involved. Thanks very much. Thank you. Thank you.

1:16:26Bye.