LIFTS Episode 94 - The Future of Fitness & Recovery: Insights from Industry Leaders at W3Fit North America

23:51It became fun. You know, and functional training explored other avenues and kind of bled its way into this thing called CrossFit, just calisthenics. because if you go back to the early 2000s, Matthew, what were we doing? A lot of free motion in ground zero, we were doing calisthenic exercises. Your warm-ups, be some push-ups, a few jumping jacks, and then that morphed into what it became through the Navy SEAL training, et cetera. But through all of this, we had a device come along. It was a new device. It was not just a mirror, but it was a mirror that you could take multiple pictures of yourself and send it all over the world, and it was called the phone.

24:33And with this little device here, which is most people's universe, it allowed you to download pictures, upload pictures, and it was acceptable to look better naked. And that ultimately was most people's goals. I mean, we're adults. Most people want to look better naked. Being able to move, that's also important. You know, being able to have a good core, that's really important. So we saw the fitness industry goes from fixed, isolated, stabilized to a free motion type of equipment to doing functional training. And then another component came in as a result of CrossFit, which was Olympic lifting.

25:13And at that time, I had the good fortune of bringing, helping the Blomberg family to bring Elaco to the U.S. and every club went from one or two platforms to four or five to eight or nine now the baseline now is eight we have done some high-end clubs though with as many as 18 bars plates dumbbells that's what that's what the order of the day was you know and so interestingly as the internet fed us programs fed us training principles we started to focus on this thing that we were getting amazing results from. And the results we were getting were from doing lunges, squats, zurcher squats, front squats, and lunges.

25:58And this amazing development happened behind us. It was called our rear end. And through that, we morphed into hypertrophy. And something else happened along the way. It was called physiques. Now, bodybuilding pretty much just died out. But we've all had the pleasure of seeing women's physique add a new spark to our industry. And the old saying was, I'll hire on the way in, you hire on the way out. Excuse me if I'm being sexist. But that's kind of what it's all about now. It's all about the end caps, the shoulder, the separation between the glutes, the low back, and the hamstrings. If you got that, well, guess what that ended up doing?

26:39A lot of my platform half rack customers, they're now buying the majority of their purchase is plate loaded. It's going to work those body parts.

26:48Matthew Januszek:End caps. What's that? Shoulders. Oh, okay. All right. I thought, all right. Come on. Got to get with the lingo here. No, I'm just trying to kind of like I'm picturing an end cap on a woman. Yeah, so shoulders, you know. Right. So now we're actually redesigning clubs that allow plate-loaded equipment, more plate-loaded equipment. We're still keeping the half racks and platforms. It's still a cornerstone because it doesn't matter what exercise or combination of exercises you do on a piece of plate-loaded or anything else for that matter. Nothing will ever replace the benefit and the results of a barbell squat or a lunge.

27:27Matthew Januszek:you know so that's what we were designed to do what about just on that just quickly jump in like what are you what about belt squats like that you know particularly as you get a little bit older like us you know it's that's um i would have thought that would be starting to become quite popular well so here's the thing you're not loading the spine when you use a belt squat but where is the load being displaced cords we have to start thinking about the architectural structure of your pelvis, your hips, the architecture of your patellofemoral joint, the architecture of your hip socket, your acetabulum, and all these things are dictating new machines or new methods of training.

28:09So back in the day, we would just tell someone to squat down like you're sitting on the toilet. Now you've mastered how to squat. In today's world, now we can actually look at your hip sockets. We can look at your lumbopelvic rhythm. We can and look at your knees, your feet, how your feet cave in or fall out. And now we're actually doing something that we were talking about doing in the last century, and that's called personal training. So personal training should be very alive and doing very well right now. Because if someone can see those cues, they should be able to squat 1 ,000 pounds. Their muscles are that strong.

28:40Their bones aren't, but their muscles are that strong. If you take the weight off the spine, yes, in theory, you should be able to squat, squat, squat away. you should be able to squat squat squat away in a pendulum squat you're modifying the line of resistance through the spine on any of these different modalities a leg press but i promise you i promise you a belt squat a leg press a smith press will never duplicate the results of a lunge

29:08Matthew Januszek:or a barbell squat i love the feel though of like a belt squat just because you can just really you know you can just i don't know you can you just can like push super yeah you just you just get this feel on your legs and your glutes i don't know i just really enjoy that kind of i have a if it's very fair and i get excited about this stuff so guess who built the first belt squat i don't know it's a good question actually um was it the guys who was it the the the guys uh pit shark from um rogers no okay that's the first one i've ever saw you got to go way back oh okay go on in it was arthur jones the omni multi exercise wow that was a machine he had that you could do weighted assist well weighted because back then people didn't do anything assisted we did dips and we did pull-ups and most often we were doing them with weight so then arthur came out came up with the idea of putting in a box in front of that machine that had three steps well the belt that you were using to give yourself a weighted pull-up that now became the weighted belt squat okay so your bad day was going to be the day you went and trained with arthur or jim flanagan or other people and he had you do a leg extension to failure a leg press to failure and then you got on the ome omni multi exercise you put the belt on and then you found out what you were really making because pain and the fact is if you have a good trainer like some of those those guys back then pain kind of left your body and this weird thing happened just one more just one more i can do it just one more you just become possessed with the feeling of pushing yourself to that limit like how faster can you go how higher can you jump you know can you land this one?

31:00Can you stick this one? And then it just became a contest within your own brain, you know, and so I'm off on a change.

31:07Matthew Januszek:With that, we've got more to talk about. Mr. Pat Regan, welcome to the podcast. You've been in, as far as I know, we had a chat yesterday, and I believe it's been around about 25 years that you've been with Lifetime for one of the, I guess, one of the most well-known and probably one of the largest premium health clubs chains in the world. And I'm sure you've seen so many things through your journey. And you've been at the head of procurement with your team for all of that time. We're at an event where buyers meet suppliers. I'm just curious, what would you say has been some of the guiding principles that have got you through that career?

31:45Matthew Januszek:And what would you say is important today for people that are in a similar role to what you was at Lifetime. Yeah, I was lucky to have great leaders supporting me, you know, Brahma Crotty, Jeff Sweephole, I had great leaders that always supported me, challenged me. And I was fortunate to be in a lot of their meetings and conversations that gave me insight that I needed to take my journey to support them in procurement, right? So that was super important, That engagement, that communication was critically important. Creating a culture within a certain division and then not hiring, but casting and recruiting the right DNA in people that will act as an accelerant to grow that culture inside lifetime and the division was another really big step.

32:39Matthew Januszek:and then making sure you're engaged the right way with your team, authentic leadership. And that was really tough for me because I was used to getting stuff done, doing things myself, and really authentic leadership comes from listening and making sure your team knows what to do and how to do it, and then your job is to remove roadblocks so that you can provide emotional intelligence in order to get the job done the right way for the brand, right, and continue to have an eye on that culture. So I think those are some really keys to success. And then, of course, we partnered with great people, and I think the whole team supported continuous learning, which is a critical factor.

33:31Matthew Januszek:You have to really be, you shouldn't know it all. You should try to always understand all sides of the point of view so you can make your own decisions up and then bring more people into decision. Any number of heads greater than one will always come up with a better decision. So when we had a big decision to make, we got close to our businesses we supported, whether it's a cafe or personal training or a number of the businesses, the spa. we made sure that we implanted experts inside those businesses and they really got to know the businesses and what they needed for support for growth, whether that's product or better pricing.

34:15Matthew Januszek:And then we executed that for them. So, you know, I think we really got close to the business and Bram and Jeff supported that. Something that Lifetime's done, and I've been a member of Lifetime for a very long time, and I think something that Lifetime has done really well is you've always understood what the consumer wanted really, really well. And I was a member of Lifetime before I had kids, after I had kids, and then had a family. And I always felt like Lifetime also grew with me. So you always gave something from a product perspective that served the customer through their stages of life, which I felt was really important because it kept you engaged and kept you wanting to spend more at Lifetime.

34:51Bringing procurement, and you've been a part of that since the beginning. We talked about this yesterday. Pat, how do you understand what that consumer needs? Because when you're in procurement, it's not about what they need today. It's about understanding the trends and what's coming. That's got to be challenging. Well, I will tell you, I think... It's almost like drafting in an NFL team, right? It's almost like you've got to pick, you've got to make the right draft picks. No question.

35:17Matthew Januszek:I mean, so that's where you really have to, when you're not hiring people, you're casting recruiting that right talent to support the businesses that they're going to be supporting. And it's about communication. And I think that communication is the strongest skill you can have either to execute, to build a team or to lead a team. You have to have really strong communication and get into the businesses. And you're right. Brahm has got a vision that many people don't understand right away. And I think he would be the first one to say there's a number of characteristics for leaders and visions, number one.

35:55Matthew Januszek:And then a tremendous skill to communicate because people aren't going to understand that vision. And you have to communicate it to them in a way where they can understand it. And then an unbelievable thrust because you're going to have naysayers and people that don't really see the vision completely or don't believe in it. So you have to have a lot of thrust. And then I think the most important one that Bram would tell you is you have to have love as the underpinnings of your leadership skill set, because people have to know that you authentically care. And Lifetime has been built on that. I remember coming to your office one day and when we first met, you said, come out and see us.

36:35Matthew Januszek:And you had this whiteboard and you drew out this process in your office. I'm sure you've done a number of times. And it got me thinking when when you make a decision in a company like Lifetime they've they've always been very successful at staying then they don't know they don't seem as though they're always behind the trend they always seem as though they're kind of just you know slightly in front but definitely not behind and they and it's not a small business it's a mega business it's so many different businesses together when you bring on a partner like us we're a relatively small unknown company at the time.

37:08Matthew Januszek:And for someone like yourself, it would have been a big risk to make the wrong decision. So what are some of the things that you can share that are important when you're deciding about bringing a new partner on, which I guess when you're an innovative company, you've got to bring new people that are relatively small and new into the company. But how do you assess those to make sure that one, they're going to be right for your company, but two, it's going to be something think that could develop into a long-term relationship? That's a good question. Well, there's kind of a standardized checklist that we went through, right?

37:42Matthew Januszek:And you do the research, you go to the shows, you talk to people, you talk to your peers. And I think one of the important things that I will tell Mike Feeney and I, I think, created is Brahmacradi and Mark Mastroff introduced Mike and I to each other at a very young time in our career and encouraged us to communicate. And prior to that, there was very little communication between competitors, I'd say, right? Well, Mike and I developed a very strong relationship and shared really great information, insights from one another that helped us both. And then the checklist, as someone was coming, so you've done your research and you've narrowed it down to the top three in each category.

38:23Matthew Januszek:And you want to make sure that they have a quality product that meets your brand, right and then after the quality product I think you really want to make sure that you have the right service level agreements and and in place to support the business and that and that the entity that you're bringing on can support that and the right warranties to make sure the equipment is is is supported during its total cost of ownership right that you know what what's the decap the capitalization process or timeline and you want to make sure that that equipment's covered in that capitalization process and timeline.

39:01Matthew Januszek:And then it's price. So price is number three or number four. We don't lead with price. Price is something you get to negotiate most favored nations pricing for once they've ticked all of those things. And then, of course, I guess maybe lastly, sustainability. How does that meet our goals and objectives within the organization too? because it's a member point of view. And we always led with member point of view when we brought a vendor in. It's everything about Lifetime is based around member point of view. Mo mentioned, hey, you always seem to be growing. You're doing things for our family. That's because we have great listeners within Lifetime and they are always searching for what is the most relevant member point of view.

39:49Matthew Januszek:And then Brom would turn his business towards that. and it was it's been magical there it really has eric webber woodway i've had a long relationship with woodway when we first started our company back in 89 i used to work with one of your distributors at the time and i'd sold a few products and doug who's your founder used to at the time it was about his his positioning was this is a really really low energy treadmill and and that was the idea and when he used to come over and he was telling us that we should convince the operators how much energy that they're saving and he said i don't know what it is about the guys in england but they don't really seem to be cared about the amount of energy that these treadmills use and at the time that was the positioning statement uh fast forward to a number of years and and the products sort of been a staple on the market and i went into i we did some work with equinox and i went into one of their running clubs at the time in new york and uh the gentleman at the time it was a buyer took took me into this this studio and I remember looking at these Woodway and it was like a piece of furniture it had this these beautiful wooden handlebars on it and it was just so impressive and so I I guess you've been with Woodway for 21 years during that period give us a bit of a give us a bit of a view of how you've seen the industry and the people that you work with change to almost like where you are today and where they are today?

41:18Sure. We always have been a performance company. People buy our product because the surface is so much better. With that, the sports world has always been our core business. And as the general population has started to train more like athletes train, the benefits that you can get out of that type of intentional training, our products have become more and more mainstream within that for the same reasons athletes love them you know and as running and the running studios have evolved we also have been a great experience for for that crowd as well and it's kind of opened us up to what used to be a little secret for athletes has turned into a little bit more of a mainstream type of product i've always been a fan of woodway i think i've known you for maybe eight nine years maybe ten years yeah i haven't been in the industry for as long as both of you have and even before i was in the industry, I always look for the Woodway to run on.

42:11This is before Woodway became ubiquitous in the category. I'm a runner, right? You know that we tried running yesterday. That was fun. And I think it just felt like the most road-like feel. It was the least amount of pressure on my joints. But then when I got in the industry, I'm like, okay, this is actually a very niche product. So I actually have a Woodway at home. I have a Forefront, which is your, I don't know if that's your home version or something like that. No, it's our commercial unit. It is, okay. And I've done up to 16 miles on it. I haven't done a full marathon yet, but I've done 16 miles on it.

42:41And it felt great. Came out of it feeling great. A lot of that has to do with the slat that you have on it. Right. You've had the IP on that for a long time. But now you see the slat kind of framework on a couple others. I've also had a Peloton treadmill, which kind of had slat on it, but I've been on a Techno Gym treadmill. And I think True has one. So how do you differentiate now? So a couple of things. Because I know on my woodway, the speed acceleration, which is actually really fast. If you're doing interval training, the speed up, the speed down, and also the incline. So you guys just always, even on a home product or light commercial product, you've kept that performance right.

43:20In the market today, and all the slat triples out there, how do you differentiate? I mean, I think we have come at this from a performance mindset, working with the world's most elite athletes, and we've taken that experience and those demands and transferred that into what we're offering in the commercial space. I think everybody else is coming at this from a commercial environment, trying to reach performance, and while they might have a slat, they don't, in our opinion, fully understand why our slats are as great as they are, and in the end, it is about the feel. as your 16-mile run would say.

44:00It's a feel issue. We know how to make a treadmill feel appropriate for the world's most elite athletes, and if we can do it for them, we can do it in the mainstream. And that subtle difference makes a very large difference as people who are using it for serious training. We get older, our bodies hurt a little more. We're designed to help you optimize that. And do you see the sales of your product go up and down with running trends? So, for example, there was a running boom in the late 2000s. Sure. I think post-pandemic. I think we're in another running boom now. A treadmill is always a great complement to outdoor running.

44:41That's growing now. Do you see those as it relates to sales? I'm not sure they necessarily completely correlate. I think for a while with the running boom, people were anti-treadmill, like purists want to run outside, right? But as running-centric studios like a Barry's or a Precision Run come out and they incorporate running into a larger modality, I think that experience has really helped us grow in that. Running's not this boring, mind-numbing process. You can actually incorporate different modalities and different training. And with all the trends towards strength, we fit within that realm really well.

45:25And we understand coming from the sports world, it's about power, right? And so power is speed and strength. And developing products that highlight and accentuate that aspect of training is really critical. And as we've all seen, cardio has kind of decreased on the floor, building products that are a little more versatile and provide some flexibility are more important now than ever before. And I think we're filling into some of those gaps. One final question. As I think about running, I'm always trying to get more people to run. You guys now go to these conferences. I'm like, who wants to go running with me?

46:03Because I just think it is such a phenomenal, easy way to do something together and sweat. But going outside is not always available, which is why treadmills are great. I also think treadmills could be a good way to get people introduced to running instead of going outside. As you think about the future of treadmills, we haven't seen a lot of innovation in treadmills, right? So you look at iFit launched some sort of like new higher tech treadmill. You've seen what Matrix has done and Life Fitness has some new, you know, Symbio, right? As you think about Woodway, you've been such a, I mean, the purest runner runs in the Woodway.

46:39Right. Because it just feels the most natural to us. but someone that's new, if I walk up to a woodway, they're almost intimidated by it in some ways. Can you see you not changing your DNA, but looking at technology tools or other tools, integration with web, like, what do you think the future of running on a woodway is going to be in five years? Yeah, I mean, I think that is a challenge, right? I mean, we are a little bit different looking than everybody else, but I also think more and more people understand that moving is good generically. And if you have connective tissue issues, if you haven't trained or done anything in many years, to think that you can just go and run outside is a pretty good recipe for an injury, right?

47:30And so I think helping people with a product that is safe, stable, reliable to help them build up to maybe run. Like if you start with just walking briskly, that's a good start. We've looked at that surprisingly with what we would think is the biggest innovation in the last 15 years is our curve, Treadmill, changed or added a category with the way that we did that. And we did that originally for the sports world so they could simulate the work-to-rest ratio for team sports, right? And at the same time, this high-intensity concept came into being. And what we were surprised with is how many people who were highly deconditioned were still able to use that product and work their way towards running.

48:18Matthew Januszek:I know we've wrapped up, but it's just got me thinking. I know you're a big Hirox fan. I know I've seen Hirox have partnered up with Centred and they've come up with their own sort of curve thing, which must annoy the hell out of you. Where do you guys sit with Hirox? And what do you think, what do you think the part that Woodway can play in that? Because if a lot of people, I guess, that do high rocks are first timers and they're getting involved in doing a lot of running. Maybe ask both of you how you think about high rocks and treadmills and where that should eventually go. Yeah, I mean, I think we have a lot of the very elite high rocks athletes training on our product because they have high demands on their bodies.

48:59And so they are elite athletes, right? And so we're used to that type of thing. I think it's a great... the way that they've structured their events and the team and the focus on challenging yourself and a really well-defined is good for the industry and good to have that level of focus. I think, like anything, making sure that you're intentional and to not go too hard too fast and end up hurt and out of the game completely is the tricky part of that. I think when we look at it, I think there's space for all that, right? I mean, the more ways that we can get people engaged in the industry moving and moving better is a good thing.

49:44No, I mean, look, I think Harrocks has done for running what Crossa did for Olympic lifting. It got a lot of people to run. I was with Jack Dilley a couple months ago. He said, no, we're out in Vegas. I forget which event, but we're not for a run. And he never ran. Like he was just not a runner, but he was training for a high rocks and it got him to run. So I think what it's done is it's brought a lot more people who might have been into like lifting and fitness, but to actually enjoy running because you've got to run 8K in a high rocks. As it relates to trevins, I just think it's like with any equipment, right?

50:16You might get first introduced. Like I didn't first run on a, I think my first trevins ever ran on was probably a life fitness treadmill. And that woodway was that thing in that corner where there was like one of them that no one was really on it before the really, really fast guy would go on the Woodway. But eventually you're like, hey, I want to be like that guy. And so I think in a lot of ways, Woodway has been an aspirational product to get on. And it's like you're graduating kind of into it. So I think like with any sport or any activity that you do, as you graduate through it, you figure out the right shoes to wear, the right shorts to wear, the right supplements to take and all that.

50:51And I think that's part of the educational journey. Right. Yeah. Yep, and I mean, I think in the old days, when we'd look at forums, and especially in the endurance space, Woodway was a little bit like a unicorn. All these runners had heard of us, but not that many had seen us. And over the years, as we've made ourselves more into the mainstream, everybody gets a chance to experience what that feel is like. And, you know, we're going to stay concentrated on making the best feeling experience and the most reliable treadmill for really, really large athletes to run really fast. and if we can do that well it'll translate in and there's plenty of room for all the other slap belt treadmills I mean we look at as somewhat of a compliment that everybody thought look at these funny guys and now every like it's there's lots of funny guys in the corner right right exactly so I think I think it's a good there's there's plenty of room there's plenty of people that should continue to run and if we can help that that'd be great Ken from dot fit there's

51:50Matthew Januszek:three themes that we've been talking about here, technology, recovery, and exercise modalities. And you guys are in the nutrition space. And from obviously knowing Neil for a long time, his concept of when he was at 24 Hour Fitness and how he did something that is extremely obvious even now, but doesn't really happen where you combine training with nutrition. Tell us a little about what you guys are doing and and how you know whether whether that sort of original idea that was extremely successful is still thriving in fitness clubs or whether you know whether you're still trying to convince people that that's a that's a great idea that's a great question um you know going back if i could a little bit in history when i started with neil back in 1988 with goldstrom enterprises and uh back in that time it was really before eft existed gyms didn't have computers and we created the first nutrition program prior to apex called nutrition analysis and the difference there was we had a person in the club that would just do the nutrition and supplement part and then the trainer would do the exercise and movement part and then over time when we started working with 24 hour and subsequently 24 hour acquired apex they merged it where the trainer then did all what we call the four pillars the nutrition the exercise and movement supplementation and coaching.

53:13And we're actually seeing now that with technology, we may be reverting back more to having a specialist handling the nutrition coaching and the supplement part, and then working with the trainer to be able to deliver maybe a more precise product. And I could give you numerous reasons, but one, to be able to scale today with technology we didn't have back then. You know, so you had to have a person in a club. And then if they left, then a part of the training package was, you know, kind of obsolete or didn't work and they're scrambling looking for somebody else. Today with technology, with Zoom, Teams, all of these things, the person could live in a different city and still handle those two pillars, if you would, and maybe somebody that's a little more specialist.

54:00And so we're kind of embarking back on that level right now and looking at implementing that and through some of the facilities. So I'm relatively new to DotFit. I've heard of you, I've heard of DotFit, all the things that 24, I mean, 24 innovated and so much in industry, right? Everything from sales to equipment and even coaching. What does DotFit do today for our audience that might not be aware of you and DotFit? Just give us a quick overview. Dot Fit is, you know, our expertise is nutrition and supplementation. And I think the big thing, you know, the supplement industry, for a lot of great reasons, it's really good at marketing, not necessarily good products.

54:43It's loosely regulated by the FDA. So, one, we make a product that works. We go really three things. We're third-party tested. Most of our product line is NSF certified for sports so that pro and collegiate athletes can take the product. But where we go the extra mile is, one is we actually have a white paper on every product. So every single ingredient, contraindications, adverse effects, everything's bibliographied and referenced. But I think even more importantly is that we have effective dosages. So a lot of times products will have third party and it'll be clean, but they don't have enough of the ingredient that has any advantageous effect in any clinical trials on human beings.

55:25So under-formulized might be clean. Most are, you know, very low formulas. It might be enough for an ant, basically. But basically, we're combining the nutrition, and we're just really providing what people are doing outside of the gym. So we're the GPS. If they're from here, they want to go from A to B, we're going to get you there. If you get off track, we're going to get you back on track. You just determine how fast you want to get there. You want to take the, you know, the Audubon, we'll help you there. If you want to walk, we'll help you get there. but you'll know what you need to do on a daily basis to get from where you are closer to your goal.

56:00There's been so much innovation. So I have a couple of thoughts there. Number one, you've probably seen lately that it seems like supplement companies are popping up everywhere. Celebrities, I mean, the people, the two athletes we just spoke about before we hit record, that's what they were calling me about is that they are launching a clean, clear protein drink. they're launching creatine chewables which i think everyone else is doing i asked about dosage just like you like what is because i what is the dosage for efficacy there then you looked at um nutrition coaching i just feel like it's a dime a dozen and then you've got influencers and podcasters and there's just a lot of noise it's so fragmented i feel like going back to your 24 days where it's okay, got a couple of magazines, I'd really probably read Flex, Muscle and Fitness, and you knew the metrics, EAS, we kind of knew the fundamentals, then we had what you were doing.

56:57But today, it's so fragmented. So how do you kind of distill away from the noise? It's tough. It's tough, right? And then how do you get to the gym, to the member who is just kind of, you know, getting blasted all over? Yeah, they are getting blasted all the time. And one thing that Neil did, and it doesn't have anything to do with.fit, but he started a podcast, much like you guys did, called Supbeast. And he's not talking about.fit, but he's basically blasting all the influencers that are basically teaching people about nutrition, who know nothing about nutrition, what they're supposed to be doing.

57:35And so he just really, he really lays into them, both on the nutrition side and the supplement side. And, you know, I find it kind of funny, right? Like supplements, you know, I would say if you took a higher being and put them in the grocery aisle of a grocery store and told them to pick out the cereal that would be best to get them to wherever they're trying to go, even this intelligent being would have no clue. That's right. You know, us, we know, okay, with nuts, without nuts, with fruit, without fruit, we can narrow it down. But I go into a supplement store, I see somebody looking at a product, and I'm kind of like, what are you looking at?

58:08Yeah. Because they have no idea. And, you know, but people hear buzzwords. And so it's good marketing. They put the buzzword, but they don't know how much of the product they actually need. What are the clinical trials on that product? And so to cut down the noise, it is a challenge, especially today. But one of the things that I got asked here at this conference is we don't do well with nutrition. Almost every buyer, we don't do well with nutrition.

58:34Matthew Januszek:It's funny you should say that because I've interviewed Neil a couple of times now in the past. And from what I understand, the reason for such the large valuation of when 24 Hours sold was the acquisition of Apex and how that was integral to the whole business model. That was a long time ago. And if you think about how you've mentioned, you know, technologies evolved, understanding of the human body, supplementations evolved. And yet, you know, you're saying this today, which I would also agree with, you know, we don't understand how to do it or we're not doing it right. What do you think is, what do you think as an industry we need to think about doing to be able to solve for something that you kind of solved a long time ago, like decades ago, really?

59:20You know, that's what we're trying to figure out at the moment. I mean, it is, you know, with GLPs coming into the marketplace, right? That's, it's not going anywhere. So we've embraced GLPs. And I may not be answering the question exactly, but it's definitely a big factor is people are a lot of people are using it as a crutch. Other people are using it as a tool. We're trying to if you're going to be using a GLP, how can we educate you so that you're going to not lose bone density, not lose muscle mass. But how do you keep the bone density, increase muscle while you're using this tool to kind of jumpstart and get you going?

59:56And all the other benefits that people are gaining from it, it's moving fast. So all we're trying to do is be a little more nimble and really provide a service that they can provide to their member. And we're just trying to figure it out as we go along.

1:00:12Matthew Januszek:Do you think it's something to do with maybe how the regulation works in terms of what trainers can do and what they can't do and how they work with someone that's making recommendations about supplement nutrition? Do you think that's probably it? Because, again, it seems quite obvious. If I was going to sit down with someone with limited knowledge I know, I would give them an exercise program and I'll tell them some basics, what to eat and not to eat. And I tell them some, you know, real basic stuff about supplementation. And that's, you know, that would be a good thing to advise them. And yet it does seem as though there's still that kind of disconnect of, you know, rounding out those, you know, core essentials about what you should do to get in shape or to stay healthy.

1:00:49Yeah, with our program, we allow coaches because a lot of time they're told it's out of scope, right? Talking about nutrition is out of scope. So with our platform, it allows coaches to, because of our RDs creating the menus, it keeps it in the confines where coaches can actually provide nutrition guidance and stay within the legalities of the law by state. So we're recognized in all 50 states. So that helps having that platform. But it is, you know, they're told when they get certifications, don't do this because it's out of your scope of practice. And so we're just trying to increase the knowledge base.

1:01:24And then that goes back to the original thing. do we have the trainers do everything or like you look at pro athletes today how many pro athletes have one coach they have a coach for one thing right one for the mental and the emotional part of the game right the ips and all of these other things your trainer that's working you out physically isn't the one that's going to be working with you on how to prepare for you know life or for an event or you know so having more of a specialized approach that's the that's the big thing that i'm exploring right now i think we've got to get back to the fundamentals when People ask me about nutrition, exercise supplementation.

1:01:58It's about movement. It's about like protein, removing sugars, right? Having healthy fats. But every week, actually Matthew, you send me a lot of this stuff. You're very good on like the leading edge supplements. But there's NAD. There's magnesium. ZMA, I mean it was two decades ago. EAS had a great ZMA product. Now that's coming back again. Creatine is now coming back again. how do you review like do you have a review process to say okay maybe there's something new here we should maybe take a look at that like greens is all the rage like there are so many greens product out right now I just got a new one from Canada that got shipped to my house last week yeah when you're in the supplement industry of course there could be something that you're like hey this could be really really good how do you do you have a do you have a process yeah so one one is everything has to be evidence-based for us to make it it has to be evidence-based we have opinions you know there's a lot of opinions around peptides and yeah I think you mentioned NADD so NAD plus and you know and peptides there's a lot of validity to to the peptides but when we make a product one it has to be evidence-based but to your point on greens there's a lot of greens products that don't have any greens you know I mean so we make a greens product that has two full servings of greens and it has all of the other things but a lot of the popular ones if you look at it don't have even a full serving of greens in it so what do you get is it does it hurt you is it bad for you no you're probably likely overpaying for a multivitamin at the end of the day so you're paying three times as much that you would for just a regular multivitamin that worked well i think there needs to be a lot of awareness a lot of education hector troncosco welcome to lyfts you and i have been friends we've known each other for a couple of years now uh i've been to mexico We spent some time together, visited your new brand, which I want to talk about.

1:03:54But you are the founder of the only publicly listed company called Sports World in Mexico. So congratulations on that. And you've since left Sports World to now kind of, I think, see your vision for what you wanted to do, which I really aligned with, which is to get the population that is not participating in fitness today and not participating in the things that we all enjoy, but to get Mexico moving and to get Mexico in gyms and to get fitness to be preventative. And we are so aligned in that vision. And I think it's a grand idea and you're executing it with the new brand Fitzy. So congratulations on all the success.

1:04:33Thank you very much, Mo. Yeah, it's been a great pleasure to meet you, to learn from you. And of course, from you, Matthew, thank you very much for the invitation. Yeah, FITSI is all about changing lives, but new lives. We are very focused on the first-time user. In Mexico, it's 95%. I always do the example that Mexico is like when Ronald Reagan used to be president here a long time ago. Only 5 % of people go to gyms. So what we are designing is bringing the people that didn't have before the opportunity to go to a very nice gym where they don't do lines to do exercise, lines to take a shower or to go to the restroom.

1:05:20We design everything where they can have great facilities for the best price. So the product, it is great. And it is changing light because we are now committed to the, I can tell you that. It's like for middle class, but the quality of the gyms is like going on a Boeing 747 new one for traveling. So everybody travels in the same airplane. So that's what we are doing with Mexico. As you said before, we are moving to Mexico.

1:05:52Matthew Januszek:Give us a little bit about an overview of the market in Mexico in relation to the U.S. You ran gyms in the U.S. We originally met through Workout Bar. And so I know you've got a lot of experience in the market here. But how would you explain the differences and also some of the behaviors that we were talking about last night of the people that come into your gyms that may not be quite as common in other markets around the world? Well, every time that goes by, since I was telling you a long time ago, right now Mexico is reacting faster following the United States because the United States, 23, 25 % of people goes to gyms.

1:06:34So they are more active since the whole history. But on the trendings, Mexico is doing it very well. But for example, boutique gyms are very difficult for Mexico because it's not cheap to go to a class of$25 to$40 per class. So in Mexico, the expansion for boutique gyms is not that easy. When I say boutique gyms, it's studios. And talking about the opportunity, in Mexico, I always, not joke, but telling the competition that we are not competition. We are allies because only 5 % of people goes. And here in the United States, we can see it in this kind of trade shows. They're real competition, but they are allies too.

1:07:24so the people are more concerned in the United States of going to the gym but right now with all the Instagram TikTok face all the you know you are an expert on this everybody's talking about doing muscle everybody's talking about doing exercise to have a longevity and to be healthier so right now Mexico is following this kind of country like like the United States. You also

1:07:52Matthew Januszek:mentioned a thing last night and i'm not sure whether it's just where your clubs are at the moment but you said you know in terms of how people use the gym and the the the need that you're having to build it you know much much bigger changing rooms and showers because it's almost like a slightly different destination to probably what you would typically expect some of the gyms in america just sort of talk talk through what you've had to do to to address that as well yeah it's very funny because in the uh launch we were talking that here in some areas of the United States, they are doing even less showers.

1:08:23After COVID, people prefer to take a shower at their house. In Mexico, it's the opposite because the traffic distance and the way that we work in Mexico, we have to drive sometimes one hour, one hour and a half. Or people take, you know, the Uber or the train, whatever, and they prefer to go two hours before. They kill the traffic, they arrive, they do exercise, they take a shower. So talking about architecture is completely different than the gyms in the United States. We have to invest more in the wet areas, you know, showers, restrooms, because they spend more time in the gyms. But after COVID, they can decide at what time they do exercise.

1:09:09What does that mean? That we can put more people per day because they could train at 11 a.m., 12 p.m., and they didn't that before COVID. Look, Mexico City, we spent some time there, is an incredible city. I don't know, Matt, if you've been to Mexico City. It is unbelievable. The architecture, the culture, the food, it's the center of university of television. It's the capital. So you've got, it's like combining Washington, D.C., New York, and L.A., and Boston, literally all in one. It's the best way I would describe it. And the other interesting thing, when I toured, when you only had one gym, now you have 20 and you're scaling.

1:09:45I noticed that it is, you know, you have, it's not like just a wealthy coming in, but you've really attracted a population in Mexico that otherwise would, one, would not have worked out in a gym, but they're also spending a bigger chunk of their income, a bigger percentage of income on health and fitness. Speak a bit about the shift in culture in Mexico, where people are saying, I never spent money on health and fitness before, but what is driving them to now say, I want to spend, because there's, you know, your gyms are like an HVLP gym here. It's$20, which is how much an HVLP gym is. You go all the way up to$40,$50,$60.

1:10:21That's mid-market pricing here for an income that is, you know, a fraction of what it is in the U.S. So consumers are spending a bigger percentage of that on the membership. What is causing them to do that? How are you attracting people to your gym? Great question, Mo. As I told you before, our marketing tools are going for the first-time user. And not only for the first-time user because we are attracting people from 16 to 35 years. Of course, we have people my age. But these kind of people, they rather to invest in living more, experiencing more life than buying an apartment or buying a car.

1:11:01You know, they don't even have a car. They could do on a scooter or Uber, and they would rather to invest in the physical, you know, muscle, feel better. Before it was like, I want to look better, but that is the result after they feel better. So they are willing to invest a big part of the salary on changing or extending their life. So that is happening all around the world. But in Mexico, 35 % of the population goes to that age. And you're talking about 40 million people. That's a really big amount of people on that age that are like tribes. You know, they are training one to each other, helping one to each other for the first time.

1:11:49So for them, it's a real experience. What have you done in your gyms that is more tailored towards that first-time user? What do you do? Because a gym could be a very intimidating place when you're first-time. Do you do something that's different when a first time music comes into the gym? Do you give them a personal tour? How do you kind of structure that? We do a mixing of old culture, you know. We started in the 80s, but we mix it with right now the new things like technology, app, following on the app. But we do the tour, we show them the gym, and we work a lot on the architecture. or you do medics, you know, the lighting is not as aggressive.

1:12:31It's less lighting. You don't even see at the end of the gym. You just see maybe seven, eight people around. So the lighting helps you a lot. We have a lot of trainers. Of course, the income on personal training is super important, but more important that they feel safe with trainers. So we have a staff around 25 to 30 people taking care of them. So we're trying to give them, you know, the P1 when they arrive, offer them a free session on personal training. And something that is amazing is we give them visits for their friends for free because when they arrive with somebody else, they feel safer.

1:13:18So we are doing tribes. I call them tribes because you see sometimes five, six, seven, 17-year-old, 18-year-old, you know, like taking photos and let's see how much weight you put on chest. And that is helping us a lot on the retention too.

1:13:38Matthew Januszek:Okay. I was watching a video last night and you was doing a tour around the club. I was quite surprised, one, how busy the clubs were. And it was almost like a social club where there was, you mentioned the tribes, but there small groups of people standing there chatting on the turf area. There just seem to be so many things going on. What have you found are some of the trends from a programming or training modality perspective that you're seeing in Mexico that's really working for you guys? Some of them are the same as all around the world, that less cardio, more legs, glutes, and free weights.

1:14:11But we add something else. we are doing functional, really, really big functional areas where they do all this kind of exercise. And in some of the things, yesterday when I showed you, we have the Mayweather studio, but open, no walls, open, where they take the classes and they mix it with different, with the functional areas. So it invites you to be that kind of vibe. But I think the training is the same all around the world. Well, Hector, thank you for coming on the podcast. We would love to follow up with you and see where you are like a year from now. We will wait for you in Mexico again.

1:14:52Matthew Januszek:I think we need to go out to Mexico City, I think. I would gladly go back to Mexico City. Please. We'll wait for you and everybody that is listening. We'll wait for you in Mexico. All right. Thank you. Thanks, Hector. Thank you, guys. Thank you very much.

1:15:15Thank you.