2026 World Cup Draw + MLS Cup Preview

21:38Mexico won one game in the U-17 World Cup in advance due to fair play. So you're going to see some teams with maybe only three points advance as the best third place in some wacky ways. So that's going to be something we're going to see in this expanded World Cup. Which is what used to happen when it was a 24 team, but then you think that how condensed it was with 24, that may be coming in as the third. But at this, yeah, it could be a bit diluted.

22:00Kasey Keller:I would just hope Jamaica could get to that chance where we could afford to be walloped at the finals. But you know what? Let me not bring my trauma out now. Jeff, what about you? It's your job to find the biggest storylines for us. So which one is at the top of your list heading into this one? Of course, putting the USA's perspective aside. Putting the USA's perspective aside, I'm curious to see if there really is a bona fide group of death. I mean, you know, I know I put out the U.S.'s nightmare scenario earlier. You know, what if you replace the U.S. with Argentina and then had also Morocco and Norway and Italy?

22:37I mean, that would be every game would just be a bloodbath. And so I'm curious to see if that kind of scenario comes to pass. I'm also a little intrigued by the weather. I mean, we saw at the Copa America in 2024 and even the Club World Cup this past summer. There were issues with the heat. You know, there were hydration breaks. And granted, I think more of these games are going to be played indoors, so that's going to mitigate the weather a little bit. But I am curious to see to what extent teams, especially those that are not used to playing in extreme heat, how they cope with the conditions.

23:08I mean, that's always going to be a unique challenge for some of those squads. I'm thinking especially of teams from Europe.

23:15Kasey Keller:Weather delays, too. I was going to say, like with you two, how close was the weather up to being to your top storyline? because after covering the Club World Cup this summer, that's literally all we talked about. We all turned into meteorologists. Right, but one of the big issues is where Copa America wasn't quite as big of an issue because they weren't worried about telecasting on a time change back to Europe. So there was a lot more night games or early evening games to night games because you're just going to Argentina or you're going to Brazil or whatever. But if, let's say, the U.S. is playing in Seattle and it just happens to be one of those weekends or weekdays in Seattle where it's high 80s in the summer as opposed to mid-70s, and you have to play at 2, 3 o 'clock in the afternoon because you have a broadcast back in Europe, yeah, that's not ideal.

24:03But then imagine if you're in Houston or if you're, you know, I mean, some of the areas that is just pretty long. Now, I know to Jeff's point, some of the stadiums will be indoor, and yes, that will be a benefit for that. but there will be some weather-affected matches. The World Cup was only the East Coast. Now you're talking about the whole continent of the United States, Canada, and Mexico. It's a rainy season in Guadalajara around the World Cup time. It could be an issue. And Miami. And we know exactly. We know an afternoon thunderstorm in Miami.

24:35Kasey Keller:Exactly, indeed. Shaka, what about you? I went for Kylian Mbappe versus Vinicius Jr. Oh. Truth be told, you could package this any which way you want. Brazil v France, Deschamps v Carlo Ancelotti. But I've kind of decided to settle on the two Real Madrid stars, all that they represent, the expectation around both countries. And while France have both won and lost a World Cup final in the time since Brazil has last been to that stage of the competition, I think there's always a lot of expectation around Brazil and how far they go in the World Cup tournament, I'm not sure that this is a good Brazil team at all.

25:21I kind of get the feeling that despite being able to boast Vinicius Jr. and Rafinha and Alisson and Rodrigo, that this may yet prove to be the worst Brazil team that I have seen in my lifetime. And put that up against a France who lost four years ago in penalties in the World Cup final. Akilin Mbappe, who has taken his claim as the heir in Madrid. Vinicius Jr., given everything that's going on with Xavi Alonso with his contract, how does he plan to impose himself on this tournament? I just think that if these two meet up, that will be a heavyweight battle worth tuning in for.

26:07Kasey Keller:Yeah, I feel like this is the first World Cup in a long time. And I know we can talk about the last World Cup, but the first World Cup in a long time that we're talking about Brazil, going in there and they don't necessarily have that fear factor that we're so used to. Now, is that going to benefit them? Because everybody's kind of sleeping on them and they're kind of thinking, no, Brazil, they're not been playing well. Qualifying wasn't great. But is Ancelotti the guy that could possibly get a side that is not clicking to click at the right time? And I think they also need somebody, Shaq, who emerges.

26:40Yes. Who kind of, who everyone goes. Like Anestabal. Yeah, where'd this guy come from? Well, maybe it's him. Maybe it's somebody else. That's a very good point. You know?

26:48Kasey Keller:But he's still quite young, don't you think, for that commanding presence that they need? But it's not just like I was very pessimistic on Brazil. And some of their players are coming alive at the right time. You look at Rafinha and the transformation of Rafinha. Esteval, his emergence, the young Brazilians at Chelsea. You look at players who before weren't worth the time in Brazil are now kind of piquing interest. and you're starting to say, well, can Carlo Ancelotti, who's very much a man manager instead of a tactical manager, get these players going the right way? I wouldn't be surprised if they made a run.

27:22You see, now, this is where I disagree with you slightly, Herb, because I think a lot of this, a lot of Brazil's success will come down to Carlo Ancelotti and how he does manage some of those talents. Because two years ago, you had both Vinicius Jr. and Rafinha on the shortlist for Ballon d 'Or. and Rodrigo would debate that. Yet, you see Brazil during that phase of World Cup qualifying, at that time two years ago, and it screamed of a team that lacked direction, that lacked leadership, and lacked a big star. And I thought Neymar was a miss. Now, given his injury issues, I don't think Neymar will feature at all.

28:06Maybe six months proved to be wrong, But as you said right now, I don't see that happening at all. Now, maybe to your point, which I really like, maybe Vinicius Jr. takes on that responsibility as the star. And that frees up an opportunity for Ernesto Val, given his talents, to kind of be that supporting player that really sparks Brazil and Carlo Ancelotti with his effect. Because I'm as big a fan of Carlo Ancelotti as any. But this is, at the same time, a very big ask. I will say, if anybody can get this right, I'm back in college. Are we worried about Brazil defensively? Always. What are we worried about?

28:48And so that's the other side, I think, is can they come into it maybe without the expectation that they have to be the biggest entertainers in football? That maybe because the expectation isn't there, the fan base, the press, even the players buy into this idea of just being a little bit more pragmatic and just going and finding ways to win as opposed to being you know the football geniuses and we'll see i'm not sure that brazil i don't know if i'll say their words but i don't think they're any better defensively than they were four years ago three years ago as it is right now i think another aspect of that is alison who yes i has established himself as one of the best goalkeepers in the world and still to this day is.

29:34But what you've seen, Sidney and Liverpool's shape of late, is injuries are all of a sudden being more of a factor in Alisson's availability. Does that open the door for Ederson? I'm not convinced of Ederson at this level. Ederson, Sidney in his time was fantastic for Manchester City. He did have some phenomenal years for Manchester City. Passing the ball, taking his risks. But he still was able to make some big saves. But not as as big I think that Brazil needs in this tournament. League football, you can take chances because it all comes out in the box. And when you're one of the best teams in the world at the time helps.

30:11At a World Cup, you need somebody more like an Alisson who's more solid, who's more orthodox, and just damn good keeping the ball out of the net, which I'm not sure Alisson has ever qualified as being.

30:23Kasey Keller:Well, that's what happens when you get two goalkeepers at the desk. We end up talking about goalkeepers in Brazil. You are. But I heard a little birdie, and that might be Jeff, who says that he's freezing over there. He's ready to go to bed. I've never seen his neck this covered in my life. Jeff, is it straight to bed for you before we say goodbye? Oh, no. Oh, no. I still got work to do. Are you going to do that work? Eventually. Eventually. Are you going to do that work and some writing in the bar?

30:52Kasey Keller:Oh, I'm sorry, Jeff. No comment. No comment. The Wi-Fi is good there. The Wi-Fi is really good in this bar. Listen, I've done writing. I've seen Jeff write a story in about 15 minutes in a crowded loud bar in Atlanta after the USA were slapped up by Panama. We all know when. And Jeff, he is a professional. Jeff Carlisle, thank you so much for joining us. I'm sure we will catch up with you tomorrow again after the World Cup draw. Will do. All right. Well, as we said, the World Cup draw is definitely the number one topic this week. We're not just talking about it on Football Americas. It will be all over ESPN FC as well, especially for that European take.

31:35Kasey Keller:Look out for a new episode on ESPN+.

31:41Kasey Keller:What a bit of worrying news now for the USA's Johnny Cardoso. He was subbed off with an injury this week, just 15 minutes into Atletico de Madrid's game against Barcelona in La Liga. He left clutching his knee after this collision right here with Dani Olmo. And the bad news and the worrying news is that he's not really new to struggling with an injury. He's only made four appearances so far this season for Diego Simeone's team as he has been dealing with an ankle injury. You can see the long list of injuries he's had to deal with in his career. He only returned to action last week, playing almost an hour in Atleti's Champions League game against Inter Milan.

32:23Kasey Keller:So, Herc, looking at this now from the U.S. men's national team perspective, how much of a setback is this for him when we're talking about him eyeing a place in that World Cup roster? He's not on the roster right now. You have to be available to be on a roster. He's not been available. And I love Johnny Cardoso, the international footballer, the Real Betis footballer, the at times when he played against Inter Milan, very good footballer. But that's not the Johnny Cardoso we see with the U.S. men's national team. And we can go back as far as you want with Johnny Cardoso and his history in the U.S.

33:02men's national team when given the chance, he's not taking advantage of it. there was a couple summers ago right before Copa America they played against Colombia not his shining moment Brazil not his shining moment this past summer Switzerland let's talk about the turkey game he brings a ball down in his own six tries playing with the outside of his foot across the face a goal and I believe it was Arda Guler who ends up picking it off right back down the throat it's a goal against your team he just for whatever reason can't put together with the U.S. men's national. And now it's one injury after another.

33:37I don't care where you play. If you're not available, it does the manager no good. In that time, while Johnny Cardoso of Atletico Madrid was trying to play at Atletico Madrid, Sebastian Berhalter has come about. Tanner Tessman has come about. Aiden Morris has got an opportunity. Christian Roldan has inserted himself into the conversation. If you're not available, it doesn't matter where you play. Others are going to take advantage of that situation. So does this put his roster spot in jeopardy? Sure. But what roster spot are we talking about? Because he is nowhere near that 11. I think, unfortunately, for Johnny, it's twofold.

34:16And Hurt talked about it. One, injuries have hampered his recent times in being able to come in and change the misfortunes with the national team where he was never able to truly build any kind of equity within the team itself. Because, look, if Johnny Cardoso had multiple national team tournaments, successes in Gold Cup, Copa America, whatever, take your pick, and now you're saying, oh, hey, he's got to get fit because look at all these last successes. Yeah, the equity. It's not there. He needs to be playing week in and week out for Atletico Madrid to give him a chance to come in in March and say, yes, I'm your guy.

35:01And it doesn't look like he's going to get that chance just because he keeps getting injured. At the same time, you're talking about equity. You're talking about equity. Marisha Pochettino has made it quite clear. Yep. No past equity, good as yen in this country. Yeah. So, you know, to that point, you have to be available. You have to be there to show what you can do to prove yourself to the head coach. Pochettino is what you can do, how you fit in, and how you contribute to this team. Because otherwise, I'm not sure what Johnny Cardoso has got the bank on. Malik Tillman was a perfect example of somebody who didn't take advantage of his previous U.S.

35:41Men's National Team appearances. And you were like, well, yeah, I've seen him at Rangers with PSV. He's shown me tons of glimpses. I could see him doing it in the Champions League. Why can't he do it with the National? Until he did. Until it clicked. And now he's built that equity with Mauricio Pochettino, which is the only person that equity actually counts for. But then unfortunately for him as well, was kind of injured at a bad time during these last couple windows where the U.S. started to play really well when he wasn't there. So now he's got to kind of go through rebuilding that as well.

36:11Kasey Keller:Well, we have an interesting graphic here, Herc. And just speaking about equity, and if you are Mauricio Pochettino and you're looking at these numbers, these depth charts in terms of a holding mid-roll, what are you thinking here? What am I thinking? I've seen this. This? Who are your picks? Who are my picks? Yeah. That's the thing. Like, I know who my picks are. I don't know who, I don't know who Mauricio Pochettino's picks are. And I know what the graphic tells me. And in all of those three, there is no Johnny Cardoso. Yeah. So that's what that tells me. That Johnny Cardoso right now is not in this pool of players.

36:45And if I had to pick the four, it would be Tyler Adams, because I know of Tyler Adams. It would be Tanner Tessman because I really like what Tanner Tessman did in between the boxes in the last couple of windows. And then I would go Sebastian Verhalder, Christian Roldan. I think those are the four players that have shown recently, as Marisa Pochettino and the U.S. Men's National League has shown us something. Those four have shown us something. I think the other thing you've got to look at when you look at those situations, You look at where can people help you if you get into a situation where this player goes down and that player goes down.

37:22You know, Sebastian has shown his ability to contribute with his ability to take set pieces. Christian has had the ability to play in multiple positions to be able to cover for people to come in and do different roles. And you always kind of know as well that you're going to go into a World Cup. Is there still some that hasn't been confirmed if it's a 23 or a 26? It is a 26-man squad, but I think you're only going to be able to suit 23. So whatever the situation is, you're still going to have to have guys that are going to be good squad guys who might not be suiting, who might not feel they have a legitimate chance of even playing.

38:08And so there is some chemistry issues there as well where you have to make sure somebody doesn't get upset if it doesn't quite go their way. And sometimes you pick guys that will be good squad guys as well.

38:21Kasey Keller:Would he make your squad? Or who's your for, as Herc was saying? Johnny? No, I think right now, no. Look, if he gets fit and plays unbelievably for the rest of the season for Atletico Madrid, becomes an out-and-out starter, pushes out Koke, pushes out Pablo Barrios. He did push out Koke. That was part of the plan for Tomas Munoz. So then, well, I call Atletico Madrid a lot, and I haven't called Johnny Cardoso. So that's the problem. So then let's say he goes, he gets fit, this knee injury is nothing. This is just like it's a week or two. It's no big deal. And then he has an unbelievable run till the March window.

39:08And Pochettino says, well, I can't ignore him. Right. He's an Atletico Madrid player. He's a Champions League. It's this. Atletico's doing great. Johnny's doing great. And then he comes in and has a phenomenal game. Against the Portugals of the world. Against the Portugals of the world. Then the conversation changes. But right now, it's, yeah. I mean, I think her hit the four who are available right now.

39:32Kasey Keller:All right. Well, with or without Johnny Cardoso, Atletico de Madrid must go on. And this time they have a tough trip all the way to San Mames to play Athletic Club de Bilbao. This game is on Saturday, 3 p.m. Eastern time. But we kick things off with our pre-show before the game, 30 minutes before on ESPN Deportes and ESPN+. You know, recommendations can be great. Maybe someone recommended this podcast. and here you are. But home projects are different. If a podcast isn't your thing, you lose a few minutes. If you hire your cousin's neighbor to mount your TV, you might end up with a lopsided screen and wall damage.

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40:59The long run for Miami is... Goal!

41:10Inter-Miami won the Eastern Conference.

41:27the net again the best collective they've had that advances to mls cup for the first time in its 15-year history

41:41Kasey Keller:well it's a big one in the mls cup this weekend as inter miami take on the vancouver whitecaps here's a look at the tale of the tape now it's going to be a big night for both clubs especially Vancouver. Some iconic names going at it in this one, including Luis Suarez, who caught up with Lizzie Becherrano.

42:22They didn't have many possibilities to play finals, but this group has played finals this year. It was not as we wanted, but we have to try to face it in the best way possible, with the camp factor that we play at home, with players that are marked the difference. We are in a good dynamic rhythm, footballistic, and that's anemic in the final, when one team comes well and the other comes worse. In this instance, I think the two teams are coming well, but we also have the moral high for the results we have. The same team lived last year, but they did not get to the final. What changed Mascherano, who entered as a técnico with a lot of criticism and a little experience as a club?

43:17And now has revolutionized and created history with this team. Well, I think the challenges were nice. It was a nice challenge for him, as a first experience outside of what was Argentina. the best way possible, knowing the conditions and the quality of the game that he had to do. And, well, it is not easy to deal with this kind of players, to take decisions, it is not easy for any coach, and, well, save the last year with the Tata that we eliminated, in this time we reached the third game and we could pass it. and then, as I said, that's anemic, it's a lot of moral. And, well, a coach is always to correct, to teach them to the most young.

44:08He was a player of many years, he knows what he needs to be. And, well, we're lucky enough to get to a good moment. He also called you a inspiration outside and inside the field for what you're with the players, your teammates. And, obviously, you've come to have interesting decisions for your part. How do you live this last season? Obviously, one always wants to play. I've always had the opportunity to play in all the places. But there is also a lot of time, with the maturity that he has today, to understand the situation, to understand the motivation or the planification that the coach expected for a game like Cincinnati.

44:51I accepted it, I understood it without any problem. The best of the sondas to transmit it to the colleagues who were to enter, that they would give the maximum, that we would have 7, 8, 9, waiting with the same energy as they were, because we are a group. Obviously, one wants to play more time than the one we have to play, but what we have to do is train, better and show the trainer that one can play more than 10 minutes, more than 15 minutes, like he's playing, but it will be a moment. Messi spoke about the emotions that he had received the news that Jordi Alba y Sergio Busquetsk came to retire.

45:34What do you feel about that Saturday can be his last game together? The truth is that it is sad to me I'm a friend of them for years, of many years. I just saw Jordi there and asked how he felt in his last week. Today it's his last week as a professional. And the Busy also. Busy had been gone, I couldn't ask. But it's a feeling of sadness, but it's clear decisions, taken with a firm decision decision, that you have to respect, you have to understand. obviously they had conditions for many years more because they are top top and as a teammate of them it is sad to not have them more but I am also proud of them to have shared many years, many games, great losses, great triumphs and trophies we have won together and until the Saturday afternoon we have enjoyed them in the best way that I think it's going to be difficult to have a lot of people in Miami to have a left-hand side and a 5-5 like this.

46:47Now, the World Cup is coming in the world 2026, your first in many years as a champion, how are you seeing it? Are you nervous? What do you feel now being at the side of us normal, watching football games? Well, the truth is that sometimes you keep having that adrenaline, that nervousness of that, wow, I can keep staying there because I can still give him, but today it is to change that chip, to see him as a hero, as a Uruguay, and I want to say the best to my country, that first the first of the game, that the cruces then are good and try to get the best as possible, because Uruguay has conditions, has enough players, we have to take the best of them, that are great people, and they have to demonstrate there.

47:39I'm very sure that they will represent Uruguay the best way possible, whenever they want to do everything they need. And lastly, what are the buttons that have most marked your life? Is it for a moment, a design in particular? What are they? Well, I think there are many buttons, but the Puma, I don't remember what color they were, but I was the one that I made a hat-trick in 2018, after that my son was born, he was one of the first Puma's shoes shoes that I used, three goals to Madrid, those were those shoes that I remember a lot. Then there was the 500 goals that I made in the Madrid at the Puma, and Puma made some special shoes, and those of these are special ones, because you never know when it can be a final final that you can play with some buttons that feel comfortable.

48:38And, well, try to enjoy them for these last ones too.

49:01Kasey Keller:He can play more than just 10, 15 minutes, which is what he's been playing now. But Herc, do you think he has more in him in terms of should he just, I suppose, accept being used as a super sub? I mean, it's not that bad to bring a Luis Suarez off your bench, right? Well, it's not that bad unless you're Luis Suarez. Yeah. Unless you're one of the most talented. Surely at his age, it must start sinking in. One of the most talented, if not the most talented striker of his generation. it's a tough bitter pill to swallow for any footballer, let alone a footballer who comes down various levels to finish out his career.

49:38He's got to be thinking, I'm going to play until the wheels fall off, literally. And it's not just any manager that he has that can be the bad guy. It's one of his best friends. This core group of personalities, Lionel Messi, Sergio Busquets, Jordi Alba, Luis Suarez, and Javier Mascherano, they're all friends. Which adds an extra layer or wrinkle to this that I don't think he expected. He never expected to be the substitute. But the way right now that Inter-Miami is playing, he played eight minutes last game. And I'm sure for a player of that caliber, it doesn't sit well. I don't think he's going to enjoy being a substitute in this final, let alone if he continues next year.

50:22So I don't think he'd be fine with it. Luis Suarez for sure envisioned something else. But I will stress on Javier Mascherano being the coach and how that adds an extra layer of maybe pressure to all this. But I also don't think Suarez is going to be a distraction either. I think he's I think because of everything you just mentioned and the friendships involved, he won't. Yes. Disappointed, 100 percent. Of course. I think. But I don't think he'll then that'll carry over into being a problem. He won't be sulking on the bench. So maybe a little bit. I mean, I don't want I don't want to play. It's a slight distraction.

50:57You should not be happy if you're on the bench. But I think also something that Suarez was in his prime was a player up front that nobody worked harder. You know, it's not, you know, because we've seen what Messi's become. He's the guy that picks and chooses his moments to do something that nobody else can do. Suarez had so much of his success from outworking defenders, from finding spaces, from battling. And sometimes your body just says, I just can't do that anymore. And so if it means, can he do it for 10 minutes? But we've also seen those numbers didn't lie. I mean, he's hit a wall. And now, does he go the route like Alba and Busquets and say, you know what, if they win the championship, to be able to say, you know what, this was pretty special.

51:52I think, to use Herx's phrasing, the Wills have fallen off. And you can make the argument they were wobbling for quite some time. I think the thing with Luis Suarez is he is such a good finisher. So that even though Sergio Busquets never, he could sit in the middle of the park and dictate a game. Jordi Alba will run all day long. Both those players have already said this is their last season. I think Luis Suarez can't cover the ground that he once did, can't outwork defenders that he once did. But the one thing he's never lost is his finishing ability. And in those moments where he does find time, he does find half a yard of space, he will bury it.

52:39But unfortunately, if he's asked to play from the start, when players are fresh, he will tire quicker than those around him. and then those opportunities don't come. Whereas you introduce him late on. He's a little bit fresher. Everybody's a little bit more tired. He gets that half a yard. And now all of a sudden you see exactly why he was as good, as generational a talent as he was. So I don't see Luis Suarez playing from the start. I see him as being that impact sub later on. I think there was also an issue with Suarez playing against some of the worst teams in MLS and still finding the spaces, to Shaka's point, where he could just use his finishing ability.

53:29Now, as you move into the better teams that are better organized defensively, those spaces aren't as available as they were in the league. Let me also say, and we've all been there, and I'm sure I speak for both of you. admitting to yourself that's what it is Shaq yeah that your time has come is the hardest thing any football player will do and it doesn't matter if you have been as good as Luis Suarez if you've won as much as Luis Suarez if you've played this game for a living when that time comes you are the last person to admit as much or even harder to admit before that time comes yeah so So then you don't have to answer these questions of should you retire last year?

54:19I think it just makes him second guess himself because, as you said, the wheels have fallen up. The wheels fell off. A wheel fell off in Brazil where he was taking painkillers every single day. And he said, I'm done. He told the Brazilian press, I can't. I'm done. I'm not going to play more because of the pain. And he scored 20 plus goals in Brazil. So he thinks to himself, even on one leg, I still have this. That is a bitter pill to swallow when you realize that's not the case anymore.

54:43Kasey Keller:Well, it's funny that he said that he, of course, wanted to play more minutes, but you can tell he's coming to that realization because in that final answer there, he was talking about how these boots could be very special because he's had to consider the fact that it could be the last time he's lacing them up in a big game such as this one or just any game at all. Do you think, Casey, this will be his last game? I do. I think particularly if they win, you know, I think the only thing that might change is, is there a scenario where he kind of joins the coaching staff, kind of still is a player to play limited minutes?

55:20Player coach vibes. Yeah. Unlikely, more likely that they win. Maybe he comes off the bench, scores a goal and then says, you know what, this is a heck of a way to go out. Listen, Tadeo Allende, who right now has eight goals in this postseason. He's already tied Carlos Ruiz for 2002, most goals in a postseason. He didn't train a day. He's in doubt. Well, what a storyline it would be for Luis Suarez if Tadeo Allende couldn't go to come on the field, make something happen, and potentially say, that's it for me.

55:52Kasey Keller:Cheka, his last game? I think it's time. It's time. Listen, and again, I don't mean to say that and belittle Luis Suarez in any way. Yeah. Again, a generational talent. Yeah. And you see that whenever he's given the opportunity. But Father Time catches up with us all. And again. Undefeated. Father Time will be streaking away in the distance and we'll say, nope, we can still catch him. So I don't mean to be at all billeting to, again, one of the best strikers I have seen with my own two eyes. And I say that unreservedly. But I think a great way to go out is, as the guys have mentioned, you win this thing and you just go off in an absolute high.

56:42But I also say that in recognizing that as romantic as that is, understanding my own journey and saying, And listen, my time has come. Even going out on a high, easier said than done.

56:58Kasey Keller:All right. Well, there's been a lot of storylines heading into this game. A lot of them about Inter Miami for obvious reasons. But Vancouver, listen, they can put up a spoiler, as our Ale Moreno talked about, that he may be fancying them in this one in the show earlier on this week. So, Casey, let's get some predictions. I'm going to start with you. How do you see this going? I think 2-1 Miami, personally. I just think home, the factors of players already saying they're going to be done, the long trip for Vancouver. I don't know. I just don't think Miami can mess this up. Hark, we talked. Well, actually, let me save you for last.

57:41Kasey Keller:Let me get Shaka. Oh, I think this is into Miami all the way. I go 3-0 Miami. 3-0? Yeah. Gasps in Thomas Muller. I am that confident that I put my mortgage on into Miami. Oh. And if they don't win, I can move in with Ali Moreno. Yeah. I think Ali was leaning towards Vancouver. Herc, what about you? We, of course, talked about this on Monday's show. And I know you seemed kind of torn. So are you making a case for Vancouver? I am. I'm making a big case for Vancouver. I'm moving with you then. There you go. More room at the end. He's got a massive house. I just think styles make fights. And this is a bad style for Miami to fight against.

58:19This is a team that recovers the ball up high. They provoke individual errors. And if you saw Inter-Miami versus New York City FC, there were individual errors that they didn't get punished for. I do think Vancouver, Ahmed with Sabi on the outside, Brian White, Thomas Mueller, Kubas, who's very good, Sebastian Berhalter, who's on a high right now, the confidence he must be feeling. Jasper Sorensen's a very good coach. I think this team ran over them in the CONCACAF Champions Cup. I think they have the ability to run over them again. But Miami's got too much firepower, so Miami's going to have their say in this.

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1:00:02Kasey Keller:But let's be honest, there's only one name that all eyes will be on in this one, and that is Lionel Messi. And I promised you we had an exclusive with him. Our ESPN Argentina colleagues managed to catch up with him to see exactly as well how he's feeling about maybe participating in the World Cup next year.

1:00:44I'm a fan of the MLS, and everything that means for the club is spectacular, so I'm happy. Do you have any idea of how many finales you played? No, I'm not. You go to the number 43. The other day I read, you're the most assistive in the history of football, you're the most winning player in the club in history of football, so you're a animal. No, the truth is, we've always talked about the most of the notes, I like to win and try it. In the middle we had a bad moment or a hard moment, but we always try it. We're trying to get it in the best. There is a secret to always be able to go more. You have a mentality that we go ahead and go for another goal.

1:01:39you have a secret or do you know and you go? No, I don't know and many things that I've been through and I do now or I do now, when I'm focused and focused on the day-to-day day is very difficult. I play every three days, I always played important games, fighting for important goals. We won one and we had another one and we had another one. Or we had to go back and have to go back. We had the need to be in a big club like the Barcelona. In Paris it was the same. In the Argentina team we had to go and win. We had to try to achieve the goal. Obviously, the most of the time it's not easy to achieve it, it's very difficult but from a beginning you can win everything and the day to get you to enjoy things, you win the game, you get it, you get it, you get it, you get it, you get it, but tomorrow you have to think about what comes, it's more important always what comes, what happened and with the time you go to the value much more things and I think it happens with everything, so it's normal as soon as you go away and see from the time, the time is going to be important.

1:03:02The sábado you already analyzed or you still haven't thought about it? Do you think it's good? What do you think? Yes, yes, we started working, to study the rival, to watch videos with Mach, to be tactical, but the truth is that it's not good because we are in a very good moment, The team is firm, with confidence, is ilusioned. And the truth is that playing local is a plus. We have a lot of times during the year we had a year where we were very irregular and we had to win a lot of games. We have a lot of times we always did a difference, we did a lot of times. And we have to take advantage. We have a lot of time.

1:03:47We have a lot of time. There is a lot of time. There is a lot of time. A few days ago, a friend of me wrote a friend who said, I'm going to go to the passages, but for all the time, if he plays, what do you say? Do you say to the passages or wait? And yet we don't know where to go. He's going to go to the hotel and a United States. What do you do? Well, I'll tell you and repeat it. And it's a reality too. We are in a season where it's totally different from Europe, from different leagues. We are going to start a pre-season in January and February. We have a lot of games in the middle of the CONCACOMPION, the league, and we are playing I hope to make a pre-temporary I'm going to prepare myself for that And for the day to day But as I said, I'm going to be day to day And being honest And trying to be real And feeling good This year I felt very good I had the luck of playing many games and there is a league that is a very physical league where the rivals grew up, many trips, long trips, a lot of trips that break a lot, and I feel good and I enjoyed it and I enjoyed it.

1:05:25I hope that at the beginning of the year that comes, it is this way. What do you think, Caloni, that's so firm to all? Because, I don't know what he said about the last thing, but if not, he's all very contramotivated. Yes, I think that the first day he made a line, made a idea, and what he did was, more than all of what he knew about football, how he lived, how he played the games, how he worked, the close-up that he had with the group, the way he had to treat a lot of players, of knowing to each other in a way, that is also because he knows humanly and knows how to speak to each other. And because he was also formed all of this, and bringing new players, new players that were not known for Argentina, and wherever they are playing, he has to take care of it and bring it to all Argentine players.

1:06:31They have to be mentalized in any moment, they can be doing things well in the club that is, that they have to be, that they are, and that is a motivation extra. I think that was Scaloni who managed to do all that. If you want to get to the club, you can get to the club. No, with him we also have to talk about it. and he is going to be insisting, no? No, no, he entiende también y lo hablamos mucho, no es de ahora sino ya desde hace tiempo que lo venimos hablando y él siempre me dice que que por él le gustaría que esté del lugar que me toque o que sea y nada, como te dije antes, tenemos una relación de mucha confianza donde no podemos decir las cosas y hablamos we can repeat the Qatar?

1:07:25yes, I think as we said before the selección is a group that will try to try that will leave everything and that will fight after for little details you can leave out a mundial is very difficult any selección can be complicated can be left out you can get on the ball and get out, you can get on the ball and get on the ball and get on the ball and get on the ball and get on the ball. We had the last chance to have the chance, even in the games we were very superior in Holland and France, we ended up going to the ball and then we had the best of the Dibu, who didn't win, but it was possible to win and not win.

1:08:14It's very difficult to achieve a world, that's why everyone wants it. And it's a different way, as a player, as a player, as a player. But I have no doubt that the group will certainly fight. As I said before, the fact that he won the last one, I think he would take a weight to the whole country. because I needed it, it was a long time that we were not champions, after the last time.

1:08:50And to play without that backpack, I think that is a relief, but that at the same time you have to play. You have to play and win, and I think when you win is much more difficult, because if the rival always wanted to win Argentina, now is the last champion of the world, much more. There are very good selecciones, like Spain, France, England, Brazil, who also have time to win and want to win, Germany. It's very difficult, but who will fight, no doubt. What you want to do on TV, no? I would like to be, I would like to be. I don't see him watching him on TV. I've been in 20 years since I've been watching him on TV.

1:09:44No, I'll be watching him on TV.

1:09:51But yes, he's a special world, Obviously, the world is always special for everything. It's a different climate for any country, especially for us, who live in a different way.

1:10:24Kasey Keller:the global tournament that we all wait for in world football. But what do you guys think? Where will he be watching it? I think he'll be playing personally. I think he'll be there. I think a lot of it is just, again, we just got done with this conversation with Suarez. And at a different level, Messi still wants to be able to make sure that he can compete at the level that is expected of him and what that role is. And I think if you're looking around April or even those friendlies in March, end of March, and he's fit and feeling good, yeah, I think he'll be a part of it. Mark, do you see it that way too?

1:11:08Yeah, but I think he's just being honest in his assessment of what he's felt over the last few years in playing in Major League Soccer. He used the calendar as an example. We're not on the European calendar. There are going to be teams, players who are already in rhythm. I'm going to be off for a few months. Let's see how my body reacts to it. He's done this before, and it's taken him a bit to catch up to speed, and then he gets injured because of it. So I think he's being very cautious with it, and I think it comes with the territory. He's always been one of these players that's been very open.

1:11:39It's black and white. I don't want to say he is foreshadowing maybe a different avenue of his playing time, but he's saying, look, six months is a long time. I'm getting older. I need to see how I feel.

1:11:52Kasey Keller:Chaka, can his body realistically handle this? Yeah, I don't think, for me, I don't think there's any doubt that Lionel Messi plays in the work of next summer. And listen, I get it. Well, the old cliche among footballers is you never say you're starting, you never say you're playing because truly that decision is not up to you. That was for mere mortals. No. Messi's not a mere mortal. Exactly. I'm still not convinced that Lionel Messi is a mere mortal. but he is still going by that same playbook, even for him, that he's not saying, yep, I'm going to play. I'm picking myself now. I feel he gets through the season, he has a long break, and then I just wonder if the way the U.S.

1:12:34season is structured in that you get this long break over the new year, you start back training in February, Lee gets going in March, and you wonder if he goes, if that serves him better. in that shortened two or three month lead up to the World Cup, as opposed to those who are playing in Europe, playing all year round, and at the end of the season, you're coming into the tournament. I feel it plays better into Lionel Messi, Sydney at this stage of his career, and he's better for it. To have 10 matches or so, maybe some time with the national team in March and some friendlies, as opposed to just coming off 60 matches in Europe, having the pressure of being at a Barcelona or a PSG, expected to get into, if not the late rounds, if not winning the Champions League as well.

1:13:27You're supposed to be at the clubs you're at, winning your domestic cup competitions as well. And there's a guy that never missed a game. There's a guy that didn't take breaks. I heard him in the interview. I expected to play every three days. three days and to now at this stage to be able to say I can rest and I can and I'm building towards this as opposed to monitoring my minutes going into the World Cup so I think it I think it helps him dramatically I just think it's wild that we see two superstars in the narrative is going to be different you see Cristiano Ronaldo in Portugal and the narrative out of one side a big portion of the population is he shouldn't play because he makes Portugal worse.

1:14:13And then we see a similar situation in terms of an older footballer who is the idol of that country. And it couldn't be further from the truth on this side. It's like, no, he has to play. He's going to play. Nobody's going to take him out of there. He's going to be a starter, full in, full out. It's just wild to me that these narratives can be so far apart. Wasn't Ronaldo still Portugal's leading goal scorer in qualifying? He was. Yeah. And so it was Messi. Yeah.

1:14:35Kasey Keller:Well, interestingly enough, I mean, just hearing you guys speak, of course, about Messi and the fact that going into this World Cup will probably be a bit different for him now. Even though by his own admission, he's already admitting that he probably won't go into the World Cup if he does in peak Messi form in terms of having played on the European calendar. But Argentina still have enough to build around and probably still win without a peak Messi? Without question. And I thought that's where Argentina actually got better during the World Cup in 2022. Now, you could make the argument that three years ago, this wasn't Messi at his absolute best, at Messi's absolute peak.

1:15:13What I felt you saw during the course of that tournament, and remember they lost the first game to Saudi Arabia. I think when you make those comparisons to an Argentina in tournaments previously, where they stumbled at the final hurdle, a lot more was expected of Messi. It was almost as though 10 of us have to just stand back, give Messi the ball, and wait for him to do the rest. And you could almost make that argument that that's what happened against Saudi Arabia. And then all of a sudden, coming out of that defeat, everybody started to play their role. Everybody started to understand their importance to the team.

1:15:48And that's when Messi was at his best. That's when Argentina was at his best. And that's what you saw. That was an evolution you saw over the course of 90 minutes. or that time in between Saudi Arabia, and I can't remember who their second game was. And that's when Mexico. And so now if you can get that again, because on paper, Argentina has always been incredibly talented. Now if you get those players playing to their strengths and allow Messi to be the icing on the cake, this is a very good Argentina team. It's just the lines, the margins for air are so slim, so thin at a World Cup that you lose to Saudi Arabia, You win a must-win game against Mexico.

1:16:31Against Poland, it was close until the handball. It wasn't a handball. It was a penalty kick that Chesney gives up, and then they get going. The next round, you're facing against an Australia that could have technically knocked you out. You know, like, Australia had their chances. Lissandra Martinez clears the ball off the line, and the diamond into this game. They suffered versus Australia. You go off on penalty kicks against the Netherlands. You beat Croatia, and very well, probably peak Messi on that play with Vardial down the left-hand side. And you beat France in penalty kicks. You could have lost penalty kicks against the Netherlands.

1:17:07It's just so slim. And Casey will tell you because he's been in this situation before. To date, the most successful World Cup for the U.S. men's national team in the modern history is the 2002 quarterfinal run. Casey, refresh my memory. You guys surprised the world against Portugal. Tied the home host country against Korea, South Korea. Got beat badly. Against Poland, you're out of the World Cup. Until who puts you back into the World Cup? So basically what had happened was stoppage time. Portugal had got some players sent off stupidly. Playing the host country, Korea. Korea did not need to score.

1:17:44It's a draw. Both Portugal and Korea are going through. And because Korea is the home country, they push score a late goal, which puts us in. And because of all those scenarios, we then get to play Mexico instead of Italy in the next knockout stage, who we've had a ton of success against. And Messi, I think, said that very well. He said, can you win another World Cup? Well, there's a lot of things that come into play. There's this, there's these games, there's these draws. I need my goalkeeper to come up big and some penalties. And the post can make a difference. All that kind of stuff. And so I think what you really want to do, I think what he alluded to, if you're a big team, you just have to go be competitive and go give yourself an opportunity to win it.

1:18:35And I feel like a Messi doing well, Messi in a good frame of mind, will have the best chance to help Argentina repeat.

1:18:44Kasey Keller:All right. Well, Messi definitely will be focusing on that MLS Cup. But I'm sure he'll also have an eye on this game. His beloved Barcelona, they're looking to put more daylight in between them and Real Madrid in the La Liga table. They're going to travel to Sevilla to face Real Betis this Saturday, 12.30 p.m. Eastern time. It's kickoff, you know where.

1:19:07Kasey Keller:All right, well, that brings us to the end of our show. Less than 24 hours away now for that World Cup draw. And because it's such a big week, we're going to be right back here tomorrow. That's right, a special edition of Football Americas. We're going to be reacting to the groups, especially for the U.S. men's national team, as well as Mexico and Canada. So you want to join us. We'll see who gets Norway. See you tomorrow, guys. You're going to get Norway. Perkins is terrified. Maybe Italy, too. Who knows?

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