In short
The episode is an ESPN FC panel discussion focused on Italy’s failure to qualify for the World Cup for the third straight time, after a playoff loss to Bosnia-Herzegovina on penalties.
Key claims
Italy were “outplayed” and deserved elimination, with major blame placed on a bad decision by defender Bastoni (sent off in the 41st minute) and poor finishing/cohesion; coaching and game plan under Gattuso are criticized, including his post-match “heart and determination” framing.
Notable examples
Italy’s penalty shootout—only one of Italy’s four penalties converted vs Bosnia’s four; references to prior Italy playoff failures (Norway, North Macedonia) and to past Italy shootouts (2006 World Cup final, Euro 2020 final).
Guests
Dan Thomas (host) with Craig Burley, Stevie Nicholl, Gab Marcotti, and Jules Breach (ITV).
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VOItaly's World Cup Absence
0:45 to 1:24
Discussion on Italy's failure to qualify for the World Cup for the third consecutive time.
“Italy would take the lead, then it would be a red card.”
Game Highlights and Penalties
1:24 to 2:38
Analysis of the match against Bosnia-Herzegovina and key moments.
“Look, the headline figure is eight nations have won World Cups.”
Critique of Italy's Performance
2:38 to 3:56
Discussion on Italy's performance and mistakes that led to elimination.
“There's a really bad decision which cost Italy dearly.”
Coaching and Leadership Issues
3:56 to 5:12
Examination of coaching decisions and leadership within the Italian team.
“You can't just assume because you're a top seed, because you're number, whatever they were at the time, number nine in the world.”
Comparison with Past Performances
5:12 to 6:34
Comparing Italy's current struggles with past World Cup qualifications.
“Look, the national team has not been great.”
Team Dynamics and Game Plans
6:34 to 9:26
Insight into team dynamics, game plans, and their execution during the match.
“I'm thinking maybe about extra time, they gave up a stupid goal.”
Effort vs. Talent in Football
9:26 to 14:00
Discussion on the balance between effort, talent, and tactical intelligence in football.
“None of us sitting here, before this game, before these qualifiers, before these playoffs, sat here and said, oh, Italy, whatever happens, they'll be there.”
Italy's Effort and Game Plan Analysis
14:00 to 15:00
Discussion on Italy's performance, effort, and tactical execution in a recent match.
“I don't, you know, again, we can fault Bastoni for his bad decision and that's fine.”
Critique of Gattuso's Management
15:00 to 17:00
Panel critiques Gattuso's management and strategy in relation to Italy's poor performance.
“Not just in this game, but in the Northern Ireland game too.”
Qualification Controversy in Football
17:00 to 18:08
Discussion on the absurdities of football qualification processes and their implications.
“The only issue I have got with qualification like this, and I'm not being nice to Italy because Italy are out.”
Show all 23 chapters
Recent World Cup Qualifying Updates
18:08 to 19:55
Updates and analysis of recent World Cup qualifying matches and their outcomes.
“Let's just remind you what that means then for Bosnia and their World Cup group.”
Analysis of Tottenham's Management Situation
21:50 to 26:05
Discussion regarding Tottenham's management under De Zerbi and the team's struggles.
“Meanwhile, it was confirmed today that Reperso DeServi will be in charge of Spurs between now in the end of the season.”
Expectations for De Zerbi at Spurs
26:05 to 28:00
Discussion on expectations for De Zerbi's impact on Spurs and challenges ahead.
“it's hard for, you know, you figure one of them is going to go and screw the pooch.”
Italy's Resilience and Upcoming Discussions
28:00 to 28:38
Exploration of Italy's football mentality and anticipation for the Gab and Jules show.
“And it'd be very, very interesting to see how he does.”
Tuchel's England Struggles
29:07 to 30:59
Discussion on Thomas Tuchel's handling of the England team and recent performances.
“Wreck your team with every tap and earn up to 5 % cash back with Venmo Stash, a new rewards program from Venmo.”
Domestic Football Returns
30:59 to 32:35
Preview of the upcoming FA Cup matches and the return of domestic football.
“And I just think he's over, you know, there just seems an overcomplication of everything these days.”
Extra Time Segment on Italy's Passion
33:35 to 35:55
Discussion on Italy's cultural ties and feelings surrounding football.
“And then, as I mentioned, domestic football back.”
Italy vs. France: A Footballing Divide
35:55 to 37:35
Examination of the differences in football success between Italy and France.
“Look, there's a number of sports where Italy do very well in, actually.”
World Cup Dynamics and National Loyalties
37:35 to 41:07
Conversations about rooting interests in football and the implications of World Cup outcomes.
“How big of a loss, Stevie, is Italy's defeat to the World Cup as a whole?”
France's Tactical Decisions
41:07 to 42:00
Debate over France's player positioning and tactics leading to the World Cup.
“I don't think you've got to worry about Germany, Gab.”
Positioning Dilemma for Lamin Yamal
42:00 to 42:37
Discussion on the strategic positioning of Lamin Yamal by Deschamps.
“Michael Elise is obviously right now with Lamin-Yamal, the best right winger in the world.”
Evaluating Chemistry and Player Positions
42:38 to 43:39
Exploration of team chemistry and the impact of player positioning.
“If you're moving them, then you must really want to have them on the field for a start.”
FIFA's Influence on Italy's Performance
43:40 to 44:19
Speculation on how FIFA leadership may be affecting Italy's success.
“You know, I want to say this about FIFA.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Julien Laurens:K-pop Demon Hunters, Saja Boys Breakfast Meal, and Huntrix Meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that, Rumi? It's not a battle. So glad the Saja Boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day. It is an honor to share. No, it's our honor. It is our larger honor. No, really. Stop. You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side. Ba-da-ba-ba-ba. And participate in McDonald's while supplies last.
0:35Julien Laurens:Welcome in to the latest edition of ESPN FC. I'm Dan Thomas, shown by Craig Burley and Stevie Nicholl for the third World Cup in a row. Italy will not be there. They were taking on Bosnia-Herzegovina. It went to penalties. It was a dramatic game really. Italy would take the lead, then it would be a red card. And then Italy could have conceded a penalty late on. Stevie, did you think it was a penalty? I thought it was a penalty. I mean, he almost pulled his shirt off his opponent. It wasn't given, though, so we went to extra time. And then Italy felt that Bosnia-Herzegovina should have had a player sent off, Craig.
1:06Julien Laurens:Yeah, I think Bosnia were a little lucky on that occasion. But in the end, it would go to spot Kitts. Italy only converting one of them. Bosnia-Herzegovina with all four. So they are through. Italy are out. Gab, you have the floor.
1:26Look, the headline figure is eight nations have won World Cups. Sometimes they've missed one. Sometimes they've missed on qualifying on two consecutive World Cups. Italy have made history tonight by making it three straight World Cups. It's made worse by the fact that the World Cup has obviously expanded to 48 nations. You know, you can go back and dissect this game and talk about how big the Bastoni red card was, and it was no doubt the correct decision, and say one individual mistake cost them. The reality, of course, is they should have never been in this position. Credit to Bosnia. Let's not forget, they played 120 really tough minutes plus penalties away from home against Wales.
2:13they went into this game and when they got that little bit of good fortune they seized it everybody's going to come out now and have opinions and root and branch reviews and inquests and stuff like that it's really not that deep it's not that deep the players are there other than DeLorenzo I can't imagine anybody who would have been a starter in this game and he would have been touch and go who was missing. You know, there's no alibis. There's no excuses. There's a really bad decision which cost Italy dearly. They still had the chance to turn it around. You don't take that chance. The Moist can chance.
2:52And that's it. You get what you deserve. You'll be watching this World Cup on television.
2:57Julien Laurens:Personally, Gav, how gutted are you?
3:01Look, I mean, I'm gutted because the game was there to be won because I thought Gattuso's a game plan. I thought, you know, obviously they got a bit lucky with the first goal, but the idea was to outlast them and it was difficult conditions. You guys all saw the pitch on television, blah, blah, blah, but they had it in hand. But in the end, you know, Bosnia, I think, showed a ton of heart. They have players of individual quality and you got to put your hand up. But this is not where they lost it. They lost it by finishing second to Norway in the group and putting themselves in this position. Gattuso, of course, bears responsibility, but as does Bastogne, as do the players who miss chances and whatnot.
3:47But this goes back to Spalletti, I think, and the Norway game and that massive miscalculation. And you pay a heavy price for that. You can't just assume because you're a top seed, because you're number, whatever they were at the time, number nine in the world. Now they're number 13 in the world and still they don't qualify to World Cup. That 48 nations go to. You can tell I'm not bitter at all here. You know, you can't assume that you're going to get through. This is how qualification works. And once you go in the playoffs, upsets can and will happen.
4:22Julien Laurens:Jules, did Italy deserve to go through? I don't think so. I think it's embarrassing. I think it's not a surprise in a way. I mean, I agree with Gab when he says that they've got decent players, they've got good players. But I don't know why Pio Esposito takes the first penalty. This is a disgrace for the leaders and the senior players in that squad, including Tonali, who should have taken that first penalty. Gattuso was never good enough to manage these squads and take them to the World Cup. The last Euros was not good. I mean, even the last two World Cups they played were very poor anyway. The league is not great.
4:57Julien Laurens:We saw in Europe in the Champions League that from Inter Milan to Napoli, it was a bad campaign for Italian clubs as well. And I just think this is also not a surprise and not a coincidence in a way because I don't think Italian football has been that great in the last few years. Cap?
5:17Look, the national team has not been great. What I'm saying is you don't have the alibi this time around of saying these players aren't good enough. Look where they play. Donnarumma plays for Manchester City, Calafiore plays for Arsenal, Donaldi plays for Newcastle. He certainly wasn't the problem. I don't think it's a lack of players, I don't think it's necessarily a lack of pipeline if you look at Italy's results at under 17 and under 20 players. I think it's a coaching issue in the sense that once these guys get together as a team, they're not greater than the sum of their parts. I think that is part of the damage.
5:53and they make stupid mistakes that hurt them. I mean, if I look at, if there's any consolation, you know, the last three, and I take Jules' point, by the way, about Esposito taking the first penalty. I thought that was a little odd. He wanted to ride the hot hand or, you know, Ken and Ritegi were penalty takers, but obviously they're not on the pitch. But I think, I agree with Jules there. But I think fundamentally, the way these three World Cup qualifications went awry in the playoffs, they're all very different. Italy in 2018 were simply not good at all. In 2022, they're already looking forward to the playoff final against Portugal.
6:31And after battering North Macedonia but not scoring, I'm thinking maybe about extra time, they gave up a stupid goal. This time around, they made a rod for their own back. And it's a huge ask in March at this stage of the season to play a whole half plus extra time down a man when you already have these issues. And I also think we need to really credit Bozzi, Amuha Removic. I thought he should have been sent off in extra time, but whatever. But before that, he was an absolute lion out there, a monster. Ali Begovic with all the tricks, the impudence of youth. And Dzeko, 40 years young, out there till the very end.
7:16You just have to hold your hands up in this game. and learn from these mistakes. Is Gattuso the answer going forward? No, I'm not going to blame him solely. I just don't think he has the qualities to be national team manager and hopefully they'll find somebody else. Why was Donnarumma, the angry man,
7:36Julien Laurens:seemingly all the way through this game, Gab? Was it refereeing decisions or was it something the Bosnian players were doing to sort of wind him up because he seemed on edge all through this game, even till the very end? So, I mean, he definitely got way wound up over the Muharremovich decision in extra time, but I agree with you. Maybe it was his way to fire up his team. You know, I think a lot of times when it comes to, especially when it comes to crunch time, I'm not a big believer in body language, but I think this really played a part here. You know, you take on the qualities of your coach.
8:17And I think back to two other famous Italy shootouts. Sorry to bring this up, Jules, but 2006 World Cup final and also the Euro 2020 final against England. Italy looked totally relaxed. There's Chiellini laughing and joking around. This time around, they were angry. They were really angry. And again, maybe that's a reflection of Gattuso on the bench trying to wind you up. And it's fine to play angry. You have to play angry, but you have to be able to channel it in the right way so that you make the right decisions and not stupid decisions like the stupid decision Bastoni made in the 41st minute of the first half getting himself sent off.
8:57Julien Laurens:You see the difference, and I know it was a friendly, but the difference in the countries and where they're at, you were at the game Brazil-France, obviously, as I say, a friendly game, but certainly Brazil much more stout opposition. Not the best Brazil side, but more stout than Bosnia-Herzegovina. And France get a man sent off and you wouldn't have known. They were still the more dangerous side. They were still composed. This Italy side are not. They're not even composed with 11 men. It's not a surprise. And that's the issue for them. None of us sitting here, before this game, before these qualifiers, before these playoffs, sat here and said, oh, Italy, whatever happens, they'll be there.
9:40Julien Laurens:Yeah. This was always going to be the big banana skin. the big head to roll was always possibly going to be Italy here and for the third time it's happened and look at the sides they've gone out against North Macedonia, Bosnia Herzegovina, a slightly better side but they're no world beaters they've got a lot of spirit and a lot of fight but they're not great players, I mean on paper Italy have much better players, regardless of the state, of what you think certain teams, they have better players so you have to ask why Why does this in recent history keep happening to them? Are they unable to take on the responsibility of what this means?
10:21Julien Laurens:The do or die situation and what it means back in Italy and the pressure? Is it that? Or are they just simply unable to do it on the big moments? I think it would be too easy to look at the Barcelona red card and think it changed the game. The truth is, Bosnia were all over them. You know, we're sitting watching it going, it seems like a matter of time before they get a goal. And then when they eventually get it, yes, they got it late, but it was only what they deserved. I mean, 31 shots, they're living on target. I mean, you've gotten beaten up. Italy got beat up. Supposedly, one of the giants in one of the biggest games against an average international side.
11:02Julien Laurens:Bosnia are average. Yes, they're at home, but they're average. And you actually got outplayed. and the fact that you end up losing the game. You can't look at any decisions, really, that changed this game, other than the fact you got outplayed and deservedly lost in the end. Craig mentioned the fact that there isn't an element of surprise, maybe, that we've seen in the past, Gab. Yeah, look, in the past, I'll let you in on a little secret. Back in the days when Italy were very comfortable defending stoutly and playing Catanaccio, So they had people like Totti, like Roberto Baggio, like Ale del Piero up front.
11:43They had absolute top-shelf, world-class strikers. This Italy side has Reteghi, who's fine if you give him service, and they have Moise Ken, who's way up and down. So if you don't have that level of players up front, you have to come up with a different game plan. And I think Italy is a very good midfield, and they have a very good defense. And you can, and they have ball-playing defenders. and I think Stevie's right. Rather than approaching this game and in fact frankly the Northern Ireland game as well as like oh let's be smart, let's be clever, let's paint the edges. How about we just take the ball, we have better players and we go out and we out football them.
12:24I think that was a fundamental mistake. Now if Gattuso were here he'd say well I didn't have the time to put the guys together, you know, you don't do that in a playoff. At some point, you have to. And where Italy's had success internationally hasn't been that much. But, you know, you look at Euro 2012, Euro 2016, Euro 2020, it's actually been by playing football, by saying, and I take the point, right, they're not France in terms of talent or Spain or whatever, but they're a darn sight better than all but four or five countries in Europe in terms of talented players. And to do that you have to get your talented players to go and play football and not turn this into the sort of game that Bosnia wanted and again all credit all credit to Bosnia because if you don't go out with a football mindset we're going to take the game to the opposition when something goes wrong with your game plan like Bastoni getting sent off in the 41st minute at that point all you're doing the rest of the game is hanging on for dear life and at that point your talent doesn't really make a difference.
13:25Julien Laurens:This is what Gattuso had to say after the elimination. As Gab said, of course, he was brought in in theory to try and save things. These lads didn't deserve this for the effort, the love, the determination. I was surprised too by the sheer heart and determination they showed today. It's unfair, but that's football. I personally apologise for not having made it, but these lads gave absolutely everything. Did they, Gab? I think they did. I think they had heart and determination. I think Bosnia had just as much, if not more. I don't, you know, again, we can fault Bastoni for his bad decision and that's fine.
14:05And then you can fault others who are making mistakes. But I did not see a lack of effort out there. I saw a lack of good finishing. I saw a lack of cohesion of a team that took the game to the opposition. but I think they were following, frankly, coaches' orders on that. And at that point, when they were a goal up and a man down, they said, all right, it's time to hunker down and see if we can get some scraps on the break. And essentially, that was it the rest of the way. They executed that game plan, which I thought was the wrong game plan. They executed it to the best of their ability with lots of heart and lots of determination.
14:41Nobody, I think, should fault these guys for effort. It's just that to win, to qualify for World Cup, you don't just need effort. You need effort, you need talent, you need intelligence, and you need a game plan that works. And the last two things were, frankly, missing, in my view. Not just in this game, but in the Northern Ireland game too.
15:03Julien Laurens:Are we being too nice to Italy, Jules? Yeah, massively. And to Gattuso as well. This quote is ridiculous. since when when you have heart and determination you deserve to qualify for World Cup it's just this is BS I mean for him coming back in I don't think it's surprising he's out of his depth completely he's been since day one and since he took over the job he was never good enough for this team for this qualifier for this project or this mission that he had and in a way I'm saying it's not surprising that him of all people comes up with well we deserve to qualify because we showed heart love, determination, peace hey, this is nonsense you were just not good enough Bosnia, I agree with Stevie, Bosnia are not even a good team they're not a good team and yet, they battered you they're not a good team, even at 11v11 they were much better than you so, heart, determination, love, sure at 10v11, for you know, a long time yeah, ok, you fought hard but by the way, as soon as you went 1v1 you started playing a little bit more and then suddenly you were a bit more threatening because you stopped playing.
16:12Julien Laurens:As soon as you went down to 10 men, you stopped playing and you just waited for those crosses because all Bosnia did is crossing the ball. They had no creativity, no combination, nothing. Dzeko hardly touched the ball and yet you still managed to lose this game. I think it was between the 90 minutes finishing or the full game finishing and the extra time starting, there was a camera shot of, went to a close-up of the Italian technical area and he had a bunch of his staff around him. Gattuso that is and he looked as if he was listening to everybody and he hadn't got a clue what he was going to do.
16:46Julien Laurens:That he had no clear path of what substitutes or changes he was going to make and everybody was sort of, it seemed everybody was telling him and he looked as if he was sort of confused and not, dare I say, not in charge of the situation at that time. The only issue I have got with qualification like this, and I'm not being nice to Italy because Italy are out. And quite frankly, they've been poor. And it's an embarrassment. But the whole way of you able to qualify and get to World Cups, it's just a bit of a shambles to me. I mean, take Sweden, for example. I think they won two games in the whole qualification, finished bottom of the group, but somehow through this Nations League get into the playoff.
17:29Julien Laurens:They were absolutely dire in qualification. That's the name of it. Qualification. And yet, somehow they managed to get their way there. And Italy, who were poor in this game tonight, but weren't terrible, to my knowledge, in the group stage. Norway were exceptional. Norway were exceptional in the group stage. And by the way, Gattuso moaned about that. But from that point of view, the way teams are able to get the parachute to qualify, I just don't think it's right. The reason it's called qualification is for a reason. And I've got a real problem, a real issue with that. So that's one down. Let's just remind you what that means then for Bosnia and their World Cup group.
18:12Julien Laurens:Canada, Qatar, Switzerland, I think you're more than happy with those three other oppositions. Turkey beat Kosovo. They will be in Group D. That was confirmed today alongside Australia, Paraguay and the US. Meanwhile, Sweden defeated Poland by three goals to two. Great game that was. Nice group for them. Japan, Tunisia and the Netherlands. Meanwhile, Czechia against Denmark, they would qualify Czechia through penalties. They have been drawn with South Korea, South Africa and Mexico. Jules, of those three other games, what's the big headline? I think Czechia to beat Denmark like that, and I agree with Craig.
18:52Julien Laurens:Denmark threw it away, not even just against Scotland, but the game before that against Belarus where they just needed a win there to make sure that they were going to the World Cup and instead it's been a disaster ever since for Czechia. First World Cup in 20 years. in a quite decent team, to be fair, not great. And you don't expect them to be dark horses during the tournament itself. But, you know, good for them to go there more than Sweden and Giocares, I think. But for Turkey as well, since 2002, of course, they haven't played in any World Cup. So 24 years for them, 20 years for Czechia. I think they're the good stories of the night.
19:29Julien Laurens:For you, Gab, the big story?
19:34Yes, other than the obvious. decided to give somebody else a chance.
19:42Honestly, I think Turkey, last time they were in this, of course, they reached the semifinal. They have an Italian manager, so I can cheer on little Monsanto Montella, the little airplane. Exactly. I think Denmark, though, as Jules said, will have so much regret for the way everything crumbled and slipped through their hands. And Czechia, too, by the way. showing a lot of resilience, you know, given what happened in the playoff semifinal as well. So Turkey, I'm sure, will be a subject of conversation
20:15Julien Laurens:on the next edition of Football Americas. As always, you can check that out on ESPN+. Also, they'll be looking back at USA against Portugal. 11 p.m. Eastern, late night for everyone. What a line-up, though. What a line-up. Klinsman, Hislop, Casey Keller, Hercules Gomez, and Alexis conducting it all. What a budget. Quick time out. Some breakfast intel you want to know about. Kodiak frozen power waffles and flapjacks are built for busy mornings. Heat it, eat it, and you're out the door. No long prep, no complicated game plan. They're packed with 12 to 14 grams of protein per serving a good source of fiber and crafted with 100 % whole grains, not refined white flour.
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21:31Julien Laurens:Plus, their technical product specialists are here to help answer your toughest questions. And because Grainger knows safety is always a priority, they're committed to being your partner in protecting both your people and your facilities. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. Meanwhile, it was confirmed today that Reperso DeServi will be in charge of Spurs between now in the end of the season. And then, what, four and a half years beyond that five-year contract he has been given. I suppose the simple question, the easy question is, Craig, will he keep them up? Well, I don't have the answer to that because I think it's less about tactics and more about fight and grit and determination.
22:17Julien Laurens:And I sort of waver that Tottenham have enough of that. But he generally has teams playing some really good football. But this is a bun fight in seven games. It's not about pretty football for Tottenham now. It's not about shape. It's about defending. It's about all the sort of basics of the game.
22:45Julien Laurens:So, look, it's good a chance. Which side are you erring on? Yes or no?
Read the full transcript
22:54Julien Laurens:I don't know. It's hard to come up with a reason why they stay up. Regardless of De Zerbe. Because if De Zerbe's this guy that's going to make them play football, suppose it aside that when they open up and play, give goals away for fun. So you don't get out of relegation doing that. You get out of relegation by battling, being organised and being solid. So unless De Zerbe decides that's the way to go, So this spot side, the make-up of it has shown that if they try and play football, at times they can look as though they're getting somewhere, but then from nowhere, because they can't defend, they end up two and three goals down from being in a good spot.
23:38Julien Laurens:So you say no? I don't see it. Everybody else around them that's trying to stay up, you can see how they're trying to go about it. They've got a good shape, they're strong, they get behind the ball, and they're trying to grind it out. I can't see, Spurs don't have the players to do that. Now, if you said to me that this is the summer and they stayed up and he took the job and would they be better next year? I would say, yeah. Yeah, over a season, absolutely. He would improve these players. I think he does improve players. I mean, he's a hothead and I can see this has been very interesting going forward for lack of a better word with maybe him perceiving not getting the support he needs from the Tottenham board and he won't be the first manager that's had that beef.
24:20Julien Laurens:But in terms of getting teams playing over a season, I've not got a problem with that. The big question for me is, can he change this mentality in such a short space of time? Because they are mentally fragile. These players didn't think they were going to be in this situation three or four months ago, but they are. And they've plummeted into this situation. And they've got people that make bad decisions on the field, including experienced players. so when you put all those things together he's got a heck of a job because even West Ham have got a bit of fight and organisation about them now which they didn't have they were losing goals for fun Nuno Espirito Santos at least improved that they're still in the bottom three but he's improved it Forrest have got a bit of fight Leeds have got a lot of fight and Tottenham have very little fight so the question is can he change enough assets of the rest of the game to make sure they're getting enough results.
25:15Julien Laurens:And by the way, their run-in, I know no run-in's going to be easy, but their run-in, I had a look at it, and I don't know if it's tougher than the rest of them, but certainly you look at it and go, where are they going to get the points? Because they're going to have to go away from home and grit out some results. I mean, you go to Sunderland, that's a fight. You know, they're not going to outplay Brighton. All right, Wolves are, you know, Wolves, they're better, but there's a chance for three. at Villa, Leeds are gritty and determined and organised. And then Chelsea and Everton, where's the points coming from?
25:51Julien Laurens:Will he keep them up, Gab? You know what, I was pretty confident that he would because they have good players, they've got guys coming back from injury and there's going to be, you know, a dead cat bounce and while the teams around them have been doing better, it's hard for, you know, you figure one of them is going to go and screw the pooch. But then I looked at the run-in, like Craig just said, and these are exactly the types of teams that you don't want to play. Brighton and Sunderland rolling the dice for a place in Europe and they're tough places to go. That Wolves game, that could relegate Wolves, so obviously they're going to be fighting for their lives.
26:28Villa fighting to hang on, to stay in the Champions League spots. Leeds is an absolute relegation six-pointer, likely, at the end of the season. Chelsea away. Chelsea, hey, Tottenham. And I think the feeling is very much mutual. They would love to contribute to setting them down. And, of course, Chelsea presumably also fighting for a Champions League spot or at least a Europa League spot. And maybe even Everton at the end of the season at home, you figure that's three points. Oh, no, because guess what? Spurs are terrible at home. And Everton at that point might still have an outside shot at Europe as well.
27:01So these are exactly the types of teams you do not want to be playing during the run-in. So, yeah, I need to revise my prediction. I think I said 5 % chance to go down on the Gavin George show on Monday. I'm bumping this up to 20%, 25%. Dezebby's very good. But the other reason is he's not a grind-it-out type coach. We haven't seen that side of him even when he was at Sassuol, even when he was fighting to avoid relegation in the past. He's a guy who needs time. He doesn't have it.
27:29Julien Laurens:Joel's last word on this to you? I just think that very good coaches improve any team. And I think he will improve that team. I think he will keep them up. I agree with the boys on how dogmatic he is. And right now you can't try to implement his usual tactics. So he will have to be pragmatic. Can he do it? We're not sure. I think there's a question mark around that. But I still think that he's way better than Tudor, way better than Frank. So this team will get better, especially with the players coming back from injury. It's a tough schedule, sure. I think they will stay up. But it's a bit of a mission for him.
28:05Julien Laurens:And it'd be very, very interesting to see how he does. But I think the mentality will change because he's got that kind of intensity in him, that kind of fight. I think he can transmit that to the players. So I'm not too worried. Gab, you get to speak about Italy yet again on the Gab and Jules show on Thursday when it drops. That'll be exciting for you. I am so looking forward to that. Just a reminder. I'd much rather do a deep dive like Kosovo, but short. Every week you can listen to the Gab and Jules show, the latest edition. We'll drop then on Thursday.
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29:38Julien Laurens:It hasn't been the best couple of games, has it, for Thomas Tuchel's England. They drew, obviously, against Uruguay a few days ago and now a 1-0 defeat against Japan. Obviously, all of our tensions were kind of on World Cup qualifying. Not sure if anyone's going to say about this gabble, Jules. The only issue I have on this is that pretty much for the teams who had two friendly games in this international break, at least one of them had the strongest 11. You know, you looked at the France game against Brazil where both teams had, for example. We saw that with Spain in the first game. So at least all those head coaches had wanted an A team for one of the games and then probably a lot of changes, sometimes even 11 changes.
30:21Julien Laurens:With Tuchel, because he messed it up himself by calling up 35 players when 11 of them didn't show up for the first week, but we're only going to come up for the second week and the second game but then some of them were injured so they went home and then you ended up with two mishmash of teams, really. And I love Thomas Tuchel and I really think that it could be good for England but that made no sense whatsoever what he did in this international break and the problem is this was your last one and you wasted it. You wasted it massively and now, well now you have to make your squad. You will announce it in May.
30:54Julien Laurens:Then you will have two friendlies. You're going to go to the US in Florida having the two friendlies and that's it and I think that was a massive missed opportunity for him he said some after the game Stevie and I were trying to sort of scratch in our head Gabriel Clark from ITV asked him a question about the false nine because I think it was Ford because as you say we weren't really watching the game he asked him about how the false nine worked and Tuchel said it was only a false nine when the ball was on one side and not a false nine when the ball was on the other and I was like what does that mean?
31:27Julien Laurens:And I just think he's over, you know, there just seems an overcomplication of everything these days. I mean, like Joel said, this 30 or 35 man score, I mean, what the hell? And the other thing is, he's kind of semi-picked a fight with Jude Bellingham, in a sense, who wasn't there. But the more they struggle, and maybe if some people less lose some form, you know, Bellingham, all the talk was, is it going to be Bellingham starting at the World Cup, depending on how his form is with Real Madrid? Is it going to be Morgan Rodgers or all these things? and he's got in this bit of a tit-for-tat with Berlingham and we know Berlingham's got a bit of attitude and I've always said it, you know, it's a dangerous game to play when you may have to go back to your player and say, listen, I really need you now because actually what I've got in this position isn't quite what I thought and so the last couple of camps for Mr Tuchel haven't exactly been smooth and I don't think he's gone about things thus far the right way in terms of, you know, some of the words and rhetoric he's used and the performances as well, they haven't been great either.
32:32Julien Laurens:Meanwhile, domestic football, of course, returns this weekend. We'll have the FA Cup covered for you live here on ESPN+. Four games, of course, as we reach the quarterfinal stages. And we start with the big boys. Manchester City against Liverpool in early start. Oh, I'll have to get them up. Oh, God. Good luck. 7.30 Eastern. Chelsea Port Vale, Southampton Arsenal and West Ham leads. Let's make up the other games. Protein is now at Starbucks, and it's never tasted so good. You can add protein cold foam to your favorite drink or try one of our new protein lattes or matcha. Try it today at Starbucks.
33:11Julien Laurens:My day kicks off with a refreshing Celsius energy drink, then straight to the gym. Pre-K pickup, back home to meal prep. Time for my fire station shift. One more Celsius, got to keep the lights on. When the three alarm hits, I'm ready. Celsius. Live. Fit. Go. Grab a cold, refreshing Celsius at your local retailer or locate now at Celsius.com. There we are. That happened. We've just seen Xhaka. He's here for Brazil against Croatia. Coverage starts 7.30 Eastern on ESPN. And then, as I mentioned, domestic football back. And what a day we have for you on Saturday. As well as the FA Cup matches, There's Mallorca take on Real Madrid.
33:53Julien Laurens:And then at the Metropolitano, it's Atletico Madrid against Barcelona. That's it. That brings us to the end of today's show. We've got a little bit of people off in friendlies. We're not going to talk about that. No, Stephen, we're not going to talk about that. I do believe you. We are talking about it while the rest of the show is going on. Well, I was trying. Gavin Jules are back with us for Extra Time. Stay tuned.
34:16Julien Laurens:Welcome in to the latest edition of Extra Time. As you can imagine, the lion's share of today's questions are directed towards our Italian contingent. Gab, what do Italians drink in times of sadness? It all depends on which part of the country you're from. I think in Calabria you might go for special amari liqueurs. Where I come from, we'll be doing some grappa. I do some what? Sorry, Gat? Grappa. Grappa. What's that?
34:56Julien Laurens:Grappa. What is it? It's a... Craig, will you educate him on Grappa, please? I cannot believe how uncool he is. Craig doesn't know the answer. It's a fine, clear, recurrence. Don't say, don't say, don't say! No, no, I'm not even going to wish my chance. Oh, my goodness. No, I'm not... Was it Craig? Sorry? No, I'm not even... What was it? Yesterday you talked, two days ago you talked about pineapple on a pizza. Sorry. No, I'm not even going to waste my breath with you. It's a liqueur. It's grappa, yeah. Is it sweet? Grappa's a liqueur. Right, okay. What sort? How would you compare it to something else?
35:30Julien Laurens:It's sort of that I'm just about to punch you in your face. Gab, should Italy focus on baseball? What, are they semifinals in the World Series? Italy. We beat the United States in baseball. In fact, as you well know. Yes, World Baseball Classic. Because, of course, all those guys there, some of them had somewhat tenuous links to Italy, but it's all fine. It's all good. Look, there's a number of sports where Italy do very well in, actually. Just right now, it's not this one. Don't worry, Gab. You'll get to the Rugby World Cup. There you go. Don't worry. England are doing a lot better. We beat England.
36:13That's something.
36:14Julien Laurens:at Jules what has France done since 2006 the French threw the rugby away Jules no one cares about rugby what has France done since 2006 that set them in such a diverging path from Italy that's a good question that's a really good question we probably don't have enough time as we all know football also works in cycles in terms of the generation of players that you produce and that you have for your country in your leagues, in your clubs, etc. And as we've been saying, I think one of the weaknesses of Italian football currently is that the promising young players that they have, that we see through the Italian under-19, under-17, etc., under-21s, don't really have a chance then when they get to Serie A level.
37:02Julien Laurens:And the very difference with the French League, for example, Ligue 1 as a feeder league, which Serie A isn't, or certainly not as much, is that we give far more opportunities and chances to young players. and then they become better and better, they go to bigger clubs, to better leagues, they improve and then you get to the kind of generations that we had in 18, in 22 and then even the current one now and I think there's a point where this is also one of the main reasons why Italy probably is not as good right now than other European nations that have that kind of conveyor belt of young talents coming through.
37:35Julien Laurens:How big of a loss, Stevie, is Italy's defeat to the World Cup as a whole? because Italy have a huge connection to the States. It feels like a loss. There'll be tears in the Bonetti-Murray household. I think so, yeah. No, it is a loss in terms of the atmosphere and the support and all the other things outwith the field. It is a big loss. It's not a big loss on the field because they're not good. Do you agree? Outwith of the field? Well, that it's disappointing for the World Cup as a spectacle not to have the Italian support there. As a spectacle, no. As a spectacle, no, not really. You have the fans.
38:11Julien Laurens:Oh, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of, obviously a lot of intelligence. Yeah. In the US, but, yeah. Gab, at least you won't have anyone bothering you asking you for tickets. No, in fact, I'm extremely accustomed to that now, thanks to the last two World Cups. I wanted to piggyback on something Joel said about, I thought that was a great question, maybe one that we can tackle on the Gab and Joel show on Thursday about the divergent fortune since the 2006 final. But one other big thing for France was, I think, also the success that they've had was also because they broke the duck in 1998 and won the World Cup.
38:51So there was a culture, I think, of success and in the leadership that was already there. This whole notion that winning your first World Cup is really, really difficult. And the fact that they had that kind of in the same time horizon, and I think no doubt helped France become one of the, if not the, dominant footballing nation, at least in terms of producing footballers right now.
39:16Julien Laurens:Gap, people in small footballing nations often root for one of the bigger teams in the World Cup or even a dark horse. Who will you be rooting for? Again, I'm accustomed to this question. Guys, I've had so much practice here. So I will tell you, ordinarily, Italy apart, I would always root for Japan, where I used to live, Nigeria, where I have a lot of friends, Scotland, where my better half's family is from. and I guess might even root for the United States once everybody else gets knocked out since the goal is making the semi-final so by that stage everybody will be out so yes, that is who I will have a rooting interest in maybe a bit of Turkey because of Montella plus of course whoever is playing against Germany Who would you hate more to win?
40:10Julien Laurens:France, England or Germany? Germany, it's not a question And then France or England? I don't even need to think about it Between France and England? I think I would prefer that France win it than England because I think France have better players and are more deserving and I do the Gab and Jewel show with a guy who's French. I also live in England and when they win something, which isn't very often, they keep going on and on about it whether it was the Rugby World Cup years ago or that stupid track cycling they do with the Olympics or the velodrome and then you team Sky and all this nonsense and then you find out that it's all rather dubious.
40:51So yes, to answer your question, Germany is obviously my absolute, the one team I do not want to win, not because I dislike them, but because if Germany win, they move past Italy. Right now I can say that only one country in the history of the universe has won more World Cups than Italy and that's Brazil and I'm okay with that.
41:10Julien Laurens:I don't think you've got to worry about Germany, Gab. No? To be honest. Well, famous last words. You can never count the Germans out. Yeah, well, we have recently. Jules, if the World Cup was tomorrow, who would be your starting front three? Oh, that's easy. As in for France? I mean, we kind of know him, I think, already. But it would be a front four, by the way. We will have Dembele on the right, Olysses, Central, Mbappe as the center forward. and then on the left, it should be Barcola, it could be Ekitike, it could be Douay as well. I think he probably, Barcola is slightly ahead of the other two right now, although Ekitike did really well in this international break.
41:52Julien Laurens:The only thing that I find quite fascinating about that front four, because I think if I was a head coach and I would love to have Steve's opinion on this, Michael Elise is obviously right now with Lamin-Yamal, the best right winger in the world. And yet Deschamps is moving him from that right-hand side to play more central as a number 10. And you see Luis de la Fuente would never do that with Lamine Yamal. I think there's other managers or head coaches who would never do that. Deschamps is doing it, which is fine if Olysses and France do well. But I find it really strange that you've got a guy who's maybe the best in the world in his position at club level, and yet you're going to move him and change him to a different position, albeit where he's still very good for France, but still clearly not the best because that's not where he plays so well with his club.
42:37Julien Laurens:For competition like the World Cup, I'm struggling a little bit to understand exactly what Deshaun wants to do there. Steve Nicholl. Well, it's your chemistry. If you're moving them, then you must really want to have them on the field for a start. But then when you have so many good players, so they've probably got six world-class players for four spots. so you figure out what's the chemistry like the best four that have the best chemistry that's the four you play Does that have a detrimental effect on the rest of the side? We can talk about that I don't know why you're really getting this I wanted to know what Gilles' front four for Scotland was going to be There you go, Gab, final question Do you think FIFA should create a NIT style tournament for all of the smaller nations that didn't make the World Cup?
43:29Julien Laurens:Oh, dear Not just the smaller nations, but yes, we could have Italy, we could have Nigeria. Venezuela. We could have our friends, the Danes. Venezuela, yes. Give me some Ale Moreno. There you go. I think it's a phenomenal... You know, I want to say this about FIFA. Have you noticed that Italy stopped qualifying for World Cups when we got a FIFA president who is of Italian ancestry and has an Italian passport as well as a Swiss one, a Lebanese one, a Qatari one and however many else he has. It's funny, like having Gianni Fontino's FIFA president has just coincided with Italy in FIFA competitions absolutely nose diving.
44:15I wonder if that's correlation or cause.
44:18Julien Laurens:We'll leave that to the Gab and Jules show. They can sue you lot. That is it. ESPN FC then returns tomorrow. We'll be reflecting on the US, of course, taking on Portugal. What would your Scotland front four be? Have we got four? I cut an M4 front five. Front four.
44:43Julien Laurens:Hey, sports fans. The ESPN app has all of ESPN all in one place. The ESPN app is your home to thousands of live events, ESPN shows, and originals across every ESPN network in service. And now you can check if you already have ESPN Unlimited as part of your TV package for no additional cause. Visit activate.espn.com to learn how to access your account or sign up, then start streaming in the ESPN app. It's all of ESPN, all in one place. Sign up or activate now.
From the publisher
The FC crew react to Italy failing to qualify for a 3rd straight World Cup and question how the former Champions have fallen so far off the mark. Plus, the guys break down Sweden, Turkiye and Czechia punching their tickets to the US this summer. Julien Laurens also reacts to Spurs appointing Roberto De Zerbi as manager and explains why he thinks it won't save the club from relegation.
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