All Too Familiar Arsenal

22:18Sid Lowe:And Infantino and FIFA and whichever panel they decide to put behind this need to take action. Otherwise, players will be forced to take that action in their own hands. Shaka, I think I'm right in saying the lines are a little blurred when it comes to what sort of action will be taken, what sort of punishment would we expect? If this was clearer for me, say, for example, if you're found guilty of racially abusing another player, you're banned from football for six months. Something as simple and clear as that, would that act as a relevant deterrent, do you think, to players today? Absolutely. But not only the ban or the length of it, which anybody could decide, well, FIFA can decide and make that universal.

23:04Sid Lowe:That acts as a deterrent. But you also have, when you have the hallmarks, as I mentioned, of racist abuse, as you have in this game, you have to force those players, in this case, Prestiani, to defend it, to somehow convince you otherwise. because a statement simply saying I was misunderstood is not really enough. Not when you have the evidence that's on camera, the fingerprints, the circumstantial situations that you saw here, when you have those as clear and as obvious as they are, then I'm sorry, just saying I was misunderstood is simply not going to abide. That wouldn't stand up in any court of law.

23:49Sid Lowe:If all the fingerprints are there, you're just simply saying, well, it's not quite what it looked like. I'm sorry, does not watch, does not convince anybody otherwise. I want to bring to attention, obviously, the second part of this was that some were blaming, of course, Vinicius Jr. and the way in which he celebrated. Of course, one of those, Jose Mourinho.

24:20Jurgen Klinsmann:the way independent of not defending the Dame, is that when a goal is done, it's not a goal from them, it's not a match with the stadium, it's not a match with the heart of a stadium, which is a stadium of adversaries. In Spain, who marks the goal from them, He cuts the neck, the ear and the legs go out. He doesn't end the game. And he ended the game. He passes in so many stadiums, always with the same, there is something that doesn't go. I said to Vinicius in the field, you mark a goal from another world. Why do you celebrate this?

25:17Sid Lowe:that we've seen over the last 15 years on the touchline. He's not ignored in this. But I think, Xhaka, what's more important to deal with is the fact that there seems to be some blaming on Vinicius Junior. Which continues to happen and is as ridiculous now as it ever was. Now, there's a couple of things about this from Jose Mourinho that has me a little conflicted. Now, Jose Mourinho has coached all over the world, coached players from all four corners of the planet. and is liked and respected from all those players, regardless of their race. And I'm sure many, if not all of those black players, are now kind of embarrassed by Jose Mourinho's comments.

25:59Sid Lowe:Now, Vinicius Jr., correctly, if I'm wrong, in saying, did not leave the park, did not gesture towards the fans, did not say anything towards the fans. It's well within his right as a player to celebrate. I defend Vinicius Junior's right to celebrate how he sees fit whenever. How good the goal was does not matter. The platform that it was on does not matter. He's a player on the park celebrating on the park. I defend Vinicius Junior in doing that as I did Jose Mourinho during his career, whether you liked it or not, as I did when Adebayor did that knee slide, played for Manchester City, whether you liked it or not.

26:40Sid Lowe:or even more recently, David Moyes and his celebration. To somehow use that as an excuse, and Jose Mourinho is right in the first thing he said, that Prestiani's comments and Vinicius Junior's celebrations are two completely separate things and should remain as much. But by somehow integrating the two, you're making it a conversation, you're making it a debate as to whether Prestiani was right or he's wrong. No, there's no debate to this. Prestiani was wrong. And that is what needs to be addressed. If you have an exception with what Vinicius Junior did in the celebration, then he should be shown a yellow card.

27:22Sid Lowe:And he was. That is where it's ended. Anything following him from that is about Prestiani and completely separate. Please don't try to complain the two, Jose Mourinho. You know better than most in this game about how it works. And I get you're trying to defend your player, your club, and everything that goes along with it. But right is right, wrong is wrong, and when you start to blur the lines in between the two, even for those, even for defending your club, you lose all authority, all moral authority, in commenting on this. And this is as disappointing as I've ever seen or heard from Josemarini.

28:02Sid Lowe:And Sid, this is a narrative, of course, which has followed Vinicius Junior around La Liga grounds. Yeah, and I think I just want to pick up on what Shaq said. I think there isn't a debate. And that's the absurd thing about this. And let's paint a hypothetical situation. Let's assume that Vinicius Junior, after scoring that goal, did the worst celebration we have ever seen. Let's assume he did something really grotesque. let's assume he did something really offensive let's assume he did something really provocative none of that would have justified him being racially abused it's just as Shaq rightly says it's just a different thing now the two things get conflated but there can be a difference and there is a difference and it's so important that this gets seen between you can dislike Vinicius you can not like the way he behaves you can not like the way he celebrates some goal you can you can whistle him you can you can chant about him not winning the Ballon d 'Or you cannot racially abuse him there is no justification for that if you think that is a legitimate weapon to have a go at a player to put off a player to go back at a player who you think has behaved badly then you are wrong then you are a racist and it's as simple as that really and and and it's just it's just it was so disappointing to hear that as as an explanation it can be part of your discourse if you're talking about a normal reaction to a celebration.

29:30Sid Lowe:It cannot be part of your discourse if you're talking about a player who's been racially abused. Sid and Shaka, thank you very much. Shaka referred to yesterday's show, of course, where we heard from Ali and Stevie and Frank on the subject. If you haven't seen it, be sure to check that out over on our YouTube channel. As you know, managing maintenance, repair and operations is never easy. But for the ones who always rise to the challenge, Grainger has your back. From professional-grade products you can count on to fast, dependable delivery, they're there to help you keep things running smoothly.

30:03Sid Lowe:Plus, their technical product specialists are here to help answer your toughest questions. And because Grainger knows safety is always a priority, they're committed to being your partner in protecting both your people and your facilities. Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click grainger.com, or just stop by. Your little one grew three inches overnight. Adorable. Also, expensive. Sell their pint-sized pieces on Depop and list them in minutes with no selling fees. Because somewhere, a dad refuses to pay full price for the clothes his kids will outgrow tomorrow. And he's ready to buy your son's entire wardrobe right now.

30:39Sid Lowe:Consider your future growth spurt budget secured. Start selling on Depop, where taste recognizes taste. Payment processing fees and boosting fees still apply. See website for details. Fodoklin's fairytale story in the Champions League continues. Remember, they've already beaten Atletico Madrid and Manchester City. They can add now a victory over Inter. 3-1 against the Italian side. A big lead to take into the second leg. What a task Inter have now in the second leg in Interleague as we welcome in. Former Inter player Jürgen Klinsmann is with us. That was not pretty viewing for your boys.

31:20Jurgen Klinsmann:Well, I have to say this was, and I already spoke to some friends in Milano, this is an earthquake for Italian football. It's an earthquake what happened there. Tonight, Bode Klimt, obviously, they totally served to win this game. They were fantastic all three goals, as you said, played out fantastically. The energy that they had, and we have to think about it, Bode Glimt, they are still in off-season. They haven't even started their season yet in Norway. And they're very resilient. They were feisty. They were tough. They were playing well. Technically, very, very gifted players, all of them. Beautiful goals.

31:58Jurgen Klinsmann:And Inter didn't know what to do. Obviously, they had two posts. First half, Damjan hit the post. Then second half, as we saw, Lotharo Martinez hit the post. So there could have been one or two more goals from Inter. But the body language of the interplayers that they were confronted with this high energy from Bolle Klimt, they didn't know what to do. And this is a disaster. It's a disaster for a club like Inter Milan in the knockout phase of the Champions League. I mean, it's obviously still fixable in a certain way in Milano next week, the return match. And it's only two goals difference. But, you know, it seems like they're getting real nightmares with the Norwegian, you know, the Italians, because Norway kicked out, obviously, the Italian national team from qualifying directly to the World Cup.

32:48Jurgen Klinsmann:Italy has to go to the qualifiers at the end of March. And now comes Bodo Klimt and sends them home with a 3-1 package. I mean, they have nightmares about Norway. And I can only give Bode Glimp huge, huge compliments the way they played. And we've held the tempo until the very last minute. You thought, OK, after an hour, they're going to run out of breath because they're not in season. But no, they kept the tempo high. They kept the ball flowing. And the passing was outstanding. The crowd really enjoyed themselves. But this is an earthquake in Italy.

33:24Sid Lowe:Jan Ogo Fjortov is loving life at the moment. I mean, he's visiting Jürgen in his dreams, the Norway are winning in the Winter Olympics, and of course. And Ali, what's interesting about this story isn't a fluke. You beat Manchester City, you went to Madrid and beat Atletico, and now you've beaten Inter.

33:40Shaka Hislop:Right. And so the fact that they did what they did against Manchester City, which was completely outplayed them, should have been the cautionary tale for Inter. They should have known, hey, if this can happen to Manchester City, it can also happen to us. And the common denominator between that game against Manchester City and today with Inter is that Borough Glynn somehow surprised both Manchester City and Inter with their level of energy, with their enthusiasm, with their willingness to get numbers around the ball. Now, what is Inter expecting when they go to the end of the world in Norway, all the way up there to playing this tiny stadium that these people, all they have to do is support this team.

34:31Shaka Hislop:They're excited about this moment. What do you think the energy is going to be like? What do you think the intensity is going to be like? And if you didn't pay attention to what they did against Manchester City, then this is why you're exposed today. So to Juergen's point, they have this blank stare about them like, wait, oh, they're running. Oh, they're moving. Oh, they're closing down the ball. Oh, wait, we're second to every challenge. And what was most impressive about Bodo Glimm today, and it has been impressive over the course of the run in Champions League, but today in particular, was that once they regain possession of the ball, the quality of decision and the quality of execution as they get out on transition, that first pass out of pressure, that second pass that finds the open men, movement on the outside, movement on the inside, combination play.

35:21Shaka Hislop:This is not we're just going to dump the ball and see what happens. Everything has a purpose in the attack for them. They know they're not going to have a lot of opportunities to get forward. So when they do get forward, they do so with a purpose and with clarity of thought, clarity of mind, and execution. A lot of quality in the attack for them in the final third. Efficient and effective inside the 18-yard box. This is not, as you just mentioned and described it, this is not a fluke.

35:47Sid Lowe:It's funny how yesterday we were talking about the culture of Italian football, isn't it? Yes, yeah, with Juventus losing 5-2, yeah. So when it went to 1-1, I thought, right, Inter have to just be smart. They've kind of weathered the storm by getting back on level terms. So surely they're just going to shut things down, don't let them have anything. It never happened. I mean, Jürgen, is there any side in Italy that can play defensively now? Because it seems like it's just goals, goals all over the place. And then when they do get back in the game, like into today, they can't shut it down. What's going on?

36:25Jurgen Klinsmann:I think they're realizing that a lot of things have been developed over the last 10, 12 years in the wrong direction. I mean, I read the daily newspapers in Italy, the sports papers, and they started to lose kind of having trust in their defensive capabilities because they always think as long as it's won a zero or maybe one goal. We're going to fix this game, you know, because we always saw it defensively. You know, almost all the teams played with a back five in Italy. Also, the top, top teams play a back five. Very rarely you see a back four, you know, which is used in most of the other countries.

37:02Jurgen Klinsmann:But they had so much trust in the way they did it over decades that right now they're losing that trust, you know, has also to do with the national team and in a certain way not having qualified, for the last two World Cups. In the middle, they've won the European Championships, but they haven't qualified for the last two World Cups. And now they risk, again, not qualifying for the World Cup, which we hope that they do, because you need a country like Italy in your World Cup. But there's a huge discussion going on in Italy about how to approach games. Because I would describe it, they approach the game with a cultural or a mentality not to lose the game.

37:40Jurgen Klinsmann:So it's not necessarily I go on the field to win the game. I go on the field not to lose the game. And that plays psychologically. It plays a few games in your brain. Because if you always think about not losing, then you never really risk. But you have to risk. If you want to win a game, you've got to go and risk something. And you've got to go and get the three points. For the Italians, basically, yeah, tying the game, ending up with one point is always still accepted. It's accepted. In other cultures, it's not. In the Premier League, it's not. In the Bundesliga, it's not. In Spain, it's not.

38:15Jurgen Klinsmann:You play there to win the game and get the three points. And now they kind of wake up more and more, also the top teams in Italy, saying we cannot use that approach anymore. We have to approach it like the rest of the world and say we're going to go throw three points. We want to win the game and not basically just play for not losing the game. But it keeps the coaches safe, the managers safe. They don't want to risk. They don't want to lose their job. If they lose two games, then they lose their jobs. And so, I mean, this is tonight, this is a real tragedy for Italian football, as it was last night with Juventus at Galatasaray.

38:51Jurgen Klinsmann:I mean, this is unacceptable for Italians, conceding five goals in Turkey and three in Norway.

38:58Sid Lowe:Atalanta, of course, losing as well to Dortmund. Jürgen, how easy is this going to be to come over, overcome basically in the second leg? Obviously, Inter with home advantage, but still a big task.

39:12Jurgen Klinsmann:It's going to be a huge task because this is a very good team, Bordecai. I mean, as we saw just now, all the results that they have the last two, three years in Europe, it's fantastic. So they will give them a fight. They will be feisty. They will also go for goals. So they will not just defend. They will try to score a goal or two, even in Milano. I mean, the crowd definitely, it will be packed 80 ,000 and they will push Inter forward. They will still believe in it. But the longer the game will go on and Inter doesn't score the first goal, the more discontent the people will get and the more you maybe will hear people whistling and going at their own team.

39:50Jurgen Klinsmann:So this will be a very, psychologically, a very difficult game to play for Inter Milan.

39:56Sid Lowe:Before I let Jürgen go, I just want to remind you, huge event at the end of the month. of course, the classica, live on ESPN Plus, and the show will be live in LA with Ali, with Kay, and with Jurgen Klinsmann as well. For more information, just click on the QR code there at the bottom of the screen. Jurgen and Ali in the same room together. Jurgen, I doubt you're going to be able to sleep, are you, between now and then?

40:27Jurgen Klinsmann:Impossible.

40:31Sid Lowe:What a time to be alive. Be sure, obviously, to click on the QR code then to take you to registration. Jürgen, thank you very much. They're not predictable. Atletico Madrid at the moment, what a game it would turn out to be against a club at Bruges. 3-3 it would finish all to play for then next week in the Spanish capital. I think really to start this segment, I need to just remind people what Atleti have done over the last few weeks, because it really has been from one extreme to the other. We talked, of course, at length after that incredible win against Barcelona. They also beat Real Betis 5-0, but then they went on to face exactly the same opposition in La Liga and lose 1-0.

41:15Sid Lowe:After beating Barca, they got beaten by Raiva Cano at the weekend 3-0, 3-3 here today. Look, how can we sit here and possibly try and put any sort of analysis on Atleti at the moment?

41:28Shaka Hislop:Well, we can't. That's the thing.

41:31Sid Lowe:So let's take a look at Carabag against him.

41:33Shaka Hislop:So, we can't, more importantly, neither can Diego Simeone. Now, you just showed us there the inconsistencies over the last few games. All you had to do was show us inconsistencies in today's game! Today's game! Today's game alone! They were in full control of this match, 2-0. And it felt like, okay, well, Atletico Madrid are now, I was hoping that they would stay on the front foot, but that wasn't the case because it's not within them. But you have to imagine 2-0 away from home. You're solid defensively. You keep everything in front of you. Club Ruga is not good enough to break you down. You imagine in your head, if you're Diego Simeone, that that's the way things are going to go.

42:14Shaka Hislop:But the lack of connection between lines by Atlético Madrid and how much space they afforded Club Rouge in many instances of the game is incredibly surprising, knowing what we know of Atlético Madrid. But what we have come to understand over the last few seasons, and in particular over the last few weeks, Atlético Madrid is an emotional team. it's a team that thrives on the emotion of one specific game of one specific instance when emotionally all of them are engaged and the stadium is behind them and they feel like they're going to fight against everybody and they're going to win every duel and defensively they're going to win every challenge they can win games like they did against Barcelona because they were up for it because emotionally they were on a high they cannot sustain it they cannot sustain it and that That is evidence of an average team.

43:11Shaka Hislop:A team that can get up for some games and then comes right back down. If you want to focus on the Barcelona domination and then how they lost to Rayo Vallecano is one thing. I think it's even more impressive and not in a good way what they did against Betis. That they beat Betis 5-0 at Betis. At Betis. And two days later, at home, they completely overlooked this team and lost at home. This team is all over the place. And it's really hard to understand and to explain how a Diego Simeone team is low on emotion. A Diego Simeone team defending so poorly at the end of matches. There is just a conceptual disconnect in terms of what the reality is of Atletico Madrid right now and what they have been in years past.

44:05Shaka Hislop:and somehow Diego Simeone is in the middle of all of this these players right now cannot defend and it was shown time and time again today by Club Brugge second leg prediction

44:17Sid Lowe:I think it's let it go still go through because of what Ali said because the second leg will be about emotion and when it comes down to that they can get up for it that's the reason you agree

44:31Shaka Hislop:yes I guess right And that's the point, the larger point about Atletico Madrid. Yes, I agree. I'm with you. I hear you. I guess. We don't know with any certainty.

44:45Sid Lowe:The bottom line is, look at the players that Real Madrid signed over the last 10 years and look at the players Atletico Madrid signed. When you play for Real Madrid, you have to have a certain mentality because you have to be at least 8 out of 10 every single time because you're expected to win every single time. That's not what Atletico Madrid does. They buy players that Real Madrid don't want. Well, Julian Alvarez was supposed to be the exception to the rule, wasn't he? In that sense, he was your match winner. We can't talk about the exception to the rule, Dan. Just talk about all the players that they've spent a lot of money.

45:22Sid Lowe:They've spent a lot of money. And they've spent a lot of money on, generally, players that Real Madrid don't want. And that's not to say they're not really good players. But the difference between being there and being there is the mentality. And his players, as much as Semi only had the mentality, even he can't put that on them.

45:41Shaka Hislop:But to your point, Stevie, if we go back to that last goal today, we're talking about 89th minute, you're winning away from home 3-2. Marco Llorente in an advanced position for no reason whatsoever. The sequence of plays starts with a throwing by Claude Bruch. The guy who receives the ball in the middle of the park completely open. Again, 89th minute. Able to turn and then able to find a pass behind the defender. 89th minute. But those things are mentality. Well, I know, but you're talking about the players that they have signed. Marco Llorente has been there for life, apparently. I mean, he has been there forever.

46:21Shaka Hislop:And so these are things that you're not expecting. You're not expecting from the players that you're signing, but you're certainly not expecting it from players that have been in this environment for as long as they have. It is really difficult to figure out Atletico Madrid. They are capable of anything and everything at all times.

46:38Sid Lowe:Just a reminder, we stay late to answer your questions on Extra Time. A lot of frustrated Arsenal fans have been in touch. We'll be answering some of their questions on YouTube. My day kicks off with a refreshing Celsius energy drink, then straight to the gym. Pre-K pickup, back home to meal prep. Time for my fire station shift. One more Celsius, gotta keep the lights on. When the three alarm hits, I'm ready. Celsius. Live. Fit. Go. Grab a cold, refreshing Celsius at your local retailer or locate now at Celsius.com.

47:11Shaka Hislop:We're leaving today and entering a world of Mickey Mouse waving. Princess meeting and greeting. Lightsaber clashing. The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror dropping.

47:24Sid Lowe:Banshee flying! Space Mountain launching! Galaxy rewinding! What's the whole death of Galaxy rewinding? Fireworks igniting! World of Other Worlds. For whatever you love.

47:36Jurgen Klinsmann:Infinite worlds await at the most magical place on Earth. Walt Disney World Resort. That is it.

47:43Sid Lowe:That brings us to the end of today's show. Ali and Steve, they're hanging around to answer a lot of Arsenal fans' questions. They're not very happy. It may surprise you to learn. And be sure to stay with us.

47:58Sid Lowe:Welcome in to the latest edition of Extra Time. Thank you very much for all of your messages. A lot with kind of this sort of vibe. Why does Arsenal hate their fans? Oh, man. They don't make it easy for them, do they? We're thinking Wolves, perfect. That will extend our lead nicely at the top. And then Spurs. And now this has happened. I read a stat. Now, believe this or not, do you want to hear my stats? OK. What was I know? This is the first time in the history of the Premier League a team that sits at the top of the table has added 2-0 lead and let it slip against a team in the relegation zone.

48:41Sid Lowe:It's never happened before. I'd never have survived unless I'd known that. Hey, that's a good one. If it's true, maybe made up. Who knows? But you went with it anyway. It's out there now. No, I've gone for it. The bottom line is, even the most staunch Arsenal fan cannot turn around today and not think they're going to bottle it. I mean, that's the bottom line. Right. But do the players think that? No, I don't think the players think they're going to bottle it. But I think you said it at the start of the show we did earlier. you started with the players know it now and the manager knows it now that actually they can make a mess of it.

49:24Sid Lowe:And that is key. That's huge. You know, when you're running around on the field and you're playing and you know by hook or by crook you're going to win the game. It could be Saka. It could be him. It could be Gabriel. You just know you're going to do it. Sure. When that switches to we're not sure that's a huge, huge psychological difference. And before you answer, Can I ask the next question? Sure, go ahead. Because it's a similar vein. All right, go ahead. Ali, will Arsenal bottle the Premier League title? So bottling it, is that an English phrase more than an American phrase? Yeah, that... You would say choking over here, yes?

50:03Sid Lowe:Where does bottle it come from? I have no idea. That's a very interesting... There could be another stat I could bring up. Yeah, as well. Ali, you go for it. You do the research.

50:12Shaka Hislop:At least that's what would be more important. I don't believe that Manchester City has proven to be consistent enough, solid enough, dynamic enough, nor explosive enough to go on a long run of games, winning match after match after match, which they have done in seasons in the past. So I do think that there is some room for mistake here for Arsenal. And it feels like this may be that room for mistake. But if they allow Manchester City to continue to hang around, they're asking for unnecessary stress, which I'm guessing that's where the Arsenal fans are right now. Unnecessary stress. I'm going to say Arsenal will go on to win it regardless.

50:59Shaka Hislop:But it won't be nearly as straightforward as it may have seemed a couple of months ago.

51:05Sid Lowe:Jack GVC is not 100 % sure where it's come from, and I can't really explain it too much because it has a bit of a crude thing to it. But it could be from Cockney rhyming slang. Bottle and glass. And you can think what rhymes with glass and then where are we going with that? Am I making sense? Yes. Okay, good. Stevie, after seeing Wolves' performance today, do you think they would have been competitive enough to have made the knockout rounds of the Champions League? Surely they can't be worse than Carabaug who were 5-0 down to Newcastle at half time today. Well I must admit if Carabaug played Wolves tomorrow I'd fancy Wolves.

51:43Sid Lowe:Yep. So I didn't quite get all the questions. If Carabaug can get into the knockout stages then surely Wolves could as well? Well not really, that's oversimplifying it. Okay. Because if Carabaug, their qualification is against teams who are clearly not as good is Carabag, then that's why they're in the Champions League. No, I don't think you answered the question, Riddell.

52:09Sid Lowe:Well, if Carabag were in the Premier League, they would be bottom of the league, below Wolves, and they wouldn't be in the Champions League. But, they don't play in the Premier League. And because of the league they play in, and they're the best team, it just means that the other teams, in comparison to Newcastle, or Wolves, or anything in the Premier League

52:29Sid Lowe:are... I just didn't think you understood it. No, I did understand it. But the person is suggesting that Wolves would go further than Carabag in this competition.

52:40Sid Lowe:Which I won't disagree. I've just sat here and told you that Wolves are better than Carabag. Okay, right, good. And I did it twice, by the way. I told you twice because you told me. You've answered it the same way. And you dismissed it about who they were playing to get in the Champions League, which was irrelevant really. Because the way you asked me a question, you were suggesting that Carabag would do better than Wolves. That's how you put it. Okay. Which is why I told you they wouldn't. Right. That's the reason I told you they wouldn't. So then why did you bring up the rest? Why did you bring up the rest?

53:11Sid Lowe:The rest of what? Carabag are the best team of the competitors in which they're competing with. What relevance... It doesn't listen to the world, does it? I just told you... What relevance does that have to answer? The question that you gave me... Yes. Was towards... Yes. Carabaig would do better than Wolves in the Champions League. That's the way you came. After I told you twice that Wolves were better than Carabaig, you came back a third time, and the way you put the question made it sound as though Carabaig were better than Wolves. So why did that feel you need to tell me that they got into the Champions League by beating inferior competition?

53:47Sid Lowe:Well, because with people like you, you've got to tell you over and over and over. People like you. What you're telling me has no relevance to your answer. That little sponge brain of yours. Go on the defence. Dan, I've always wanted to ask you this. Oh, OK. Hello. What was your favourite football team growing up and who do you support now? My favourite football team featured a man to my left. Chivas USA. Thank you. No, in the 80s, where I grew up, there were no big teams or any teams around, or electricity or much. it was either basically playground politics Liverpool or Manchester United that was kind of the 80s who you supported so I supported Liverpool then I moved to Southampton worked for them they paid me so I supported them went to Real Madrid they paid me more so I supported them and then I came here now I don't really support anyone apart from England you're a Real Madrid fan I don't think so you should sit next sorry you should sit behind you watching Real Madrid I would disagree I would disagree I think England

54:51Shaka Hislop:Ali am I am I off mark I still think there is some Real Madrid blood in there somewhere. Thank you. There is some bubbling in there. There you go.

55:02Sid Lowe:I know who he supports better than he does. Yeah, exactly. It doesn't matter what I say. So there we are. That's normal. For Stevie, we've seen big club after big club go up against Bodo and struggle. Have you ever played in such freezing conditions on artificial turf? If yes, can you talk about your experience and what makes it so difficult? Can we bring up a caveat here? on Bodo, they went to Madrid and beat Atletico Madrid in Madrid at the Metropolitano. So I think, no, carry on. There is no question that they have an advantage at home. When you play on an artificial surface, it's a completely different ball game.

55:43Sid Lowe:The bounce is 100 times different. And the ball itself, you have to strike the ball in a different way. Okay. On an artificial surface. Explain that a little bit more in detail. You're going to have to help me out here, Ali. See, I always... Whenever I played on an artificial surface, and whenever any of my teams played on an artificial surface, the amount of passes and the amount of strikes on the ball that were so off has to be because of the surface. OK. And if you add the fact that it's a different bounce completely, so you don't know whether it's going to bounce up and hit you in the chest, or whether it's going to bounce and hit you in the shin, all of that takes time for you to work out.

56:31Sid Lowe:And so that's why teams with maybe lesser talent, obviously Bodo's a good team, but teams with lesser talent can take advantage of that extra little bit of second to close you down and make it harder for you. I wish I could explain better the striking of the ball.

56:47Shaka Hislop:There's more give on the natural grass than there is on the artificial turf. So think about it so you can visualize. Think about it when you are the driving range and you're hitting off the mat or you're hitting off the grass. There's more give when you're hitting the ball on a natural surface than there is on an artificial surface. So that, to your point Stevie, it affects how you strike the ball and the quality of your strike. So of course if you're used to doing it, then what it takes is practice. What it takes is being around it and how the ball reacts so that you're able to anticipate one, how you're about to strike the ball, which is important, but it's also important that the other guy knows where this ball is going to go and how that pass is going to react when it's hit towards you.

57:35Shaka Hislop:In the artificial turf, which is very clear to see, the skid of the ball is different, particularly if it's cold which it is in Norway and then the bounce of the ball sometimes it gets to you sometimes it doesn't get to you sometimes it dies on you that is it also takes some time so the quality of possession is not nearly as clean as it would be in grass and so to that end this is why you see Boto Glenn they're not exactly a team that just keeps the ball all the time when they get it they go right and it's three four passes and now they're in an attacking position they're not hanging around hey let's complete seven eight passes because even for them keeping the ball in artificial turf is it's more complicated than it would be on natural grass

58:21Sid Lowe:thank you very much boys that is it that brings us to the end of today's show who's back tomorrow i am of course more turf talk uh be sure to i'll break it down for you on the next edition of the

58:45Sid Lowe:from 30 for 30 podcasts

58:55Jurgen Klinsmann:Brian Pata senior defensive lineman from Miami gun down the key to this case it's Brian

59:03Sid Lowe:An hour before he died, he was on the phone arguing what's about. This might be a hit. You want the truth. They just want a conviction being placed under arrest. We had a killer amongst us.

59:13Shaka Hislop:Murder at the U. Listen now.