In short
ESPN FC debate on Arsenal’s “apathetic” approach in the Champions League final vs PSG, plus broader World Cup and club football discussion (World Cup friendlies, England squad, Liverpool coaching change, Real Madrid/Club World Cup injuries, and other match updates).
Guests (panelists)
Dan Thomas (host); Craig Burley (former professional, ex-player/analyst); Shaka Hislop (former goalkeeper, analyst); Ian Darke (commentator/analyst, noted for defending Arsenal’s tactics).
Key claims
- Ian Darke: Arsenal took a pragmatic, defensive plan against PSG’s threat; they were close to winning (1-1, then penalty shootout).
- Craig Burley and Shaka Hislop: Arsenal had “no middle ground,” sat too deep for 120 minutes, created little after scoring, and left “a lot on the table”; similar approach also criticized in the Carabao Cup final vs Man City.
- Criticism fairness: time-wasting and refereeing decisions are debated, but main issue is Arsenal’s lack of attacking threat.
Notable examples
- Arsenal scored early, then had no shots on target after the opening goal.
- PSG’s penalty and time-wasting complaints; Vitinha quotes criticizing Arsenal’s “two lines” and PSG being “taken out of the game.”
- Comparison to Inter’s defensive success under Mourinho and Bayern’s ability to challenge PSG.
Written by AI. May contain mistakes. Listen to the episode to check what was said.
Chapters
Tap a time to open that second in VODiscussion on Arsenal's Tactics
1:29 to 2:41
Exploration of Arsenal's tactical approach in the recent match against PSG.
“If anyone joined us on Saturday and Sunday, you'd have seen the panel not impressed with the tactics that Arsenal employed in that defeat on penalties against PSG.”
Critique of Arsenal's Performance
2:41 to 4:32
Panelists critique Arsenal's possession and strategy during the final.
“just in case anybody needs to be reminded of that.”
Comparing Approaches: Arsenal vs. Man City
4:32 to 7:40
Discussion on Arsenal's similar approach against Manchester City and its implications.
“They're Premier League champions for a reason.”
The Approach Against PSG
7:40 to 11:40
Analyzing the choice of tactics against PSG and their effectiveness.
“and he's a very good player so you could get at this PSG defence it's Arsenal chose not to do it Ian?”
Reflection on Arsenal's Mindset
11:40 to 14:00
Discussion on Arsenal's mindset and its impact on their performance throughout the season.
“Ian, is the time wasting worse for Arsenal, or do we just notice it more?”
Arsenal's Tactics Under Scrutiny
14:00 to 16:14
Discussion about Arsenal's defensive tactics and their implications.
“and I agree, look, that was the tactic that they decided to go with, wouldn't have else got the goal.”
Arsenal's Tactics Under Scrutiny
16:47 to 17:13
Discussion about Arsenal's defensive tactics and their implications.
Brazil's World Cup Prospects
18:36 to 20:08
Analysis of Brazil's squad and expectations for the World Cup.
“Brazil 6, Panama 2 in their first World Cup friendly ahead of the start of the tournament.”
England's World Cup Squad Debate
20:09 to 24:42
Discussion on the strengths and weaknesses of England's World Cup squad.
“You've just said you've had enough of talking about Arsenal.”
Liverpool's Managerial Changes
28:00 to 29:04
Discussion on Liverpool's potential managerial appointment of Iriola.
“Iriola very much the favourite to come in and replace the Dutchman.”
Show all 18 chapters
Florentino Perez's Excuses
29:04 to 30:44
Debate about Real Madrid president's comments on injuries related to the Club World Cup.
“Noseley Premier League worked absolute wonders with Bournemouth, to Ian's point, with a smaller budget.”
Player Burnout in Football
30:44 to 33:01
Exploration of player burnout and its impact on performance during the season.
“Is he suffering a bit of burnout from that, from not getting a proper break?”
World Cup Friendlies and Predictions
34:35 to 35:01
Discussion on various World Cup teams, friendlies, and tournament predictions.
“Game day at my place is kind of a big deal.”
World Cup Friendlies and Predictions
35:07 to 41:04
Discussion on various World Cup teams, friendlies, and tournament predictions.
“Here's some news in case you missed what's been going on over the last 24 hours.”
World Cup Preparations and Mindsets
42:00 to 45:30
Discussing the different approaches players take while preparing for friendlies leading up to the World Cup.
“I don't know why the US played it there.”
The Evolution of Football Tactics
45:30 to 49:10
Analyzing Arsenal's recent gameplay in comparison to 1980s football styles and addressing tactical criticisms.
“As someone who watched and commentated in the 80s, is their assessment accurate or are they being too harsh on 80s football?”
Marquinhos' Heartfelt Gesture
49:10 to 52:48
Examining Marquinhos' actions during a recent match and the reactions they sparked among commentators.
“I mean we make we make a mountain out of mohel with every damn thing.”
James Milner's Remarkable Career
52:48 to 55:53
Celebrating James Milner's longevity in the Premier League and his contributions as a versatile player.
“When you have 48 teams, they're going to be garbage.”
Transcript
Automatic transcript. May contain errors.0:00Look, the economy is a lot right now, and if you're a small business owner, you probably feel it. You can't control interest rates or tariffs, but you can control how efficiently your business operates. Automating payroll and HR with Gusto is one of the fastest ways to cut friction and focus on what actually moves the needle. Gusto is online payroll and benefits software built for small businesses. It's all-in-one, remote-friendly, and incredibly easy to use, so you can pay, hire, onboard, and support your team from anywhere. It's quick and simple to switch to Gusto. Just transfer your existing data to get up and running fast.
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1:19Welcome in to the latest edition of ESPN FC. I'm Dan Thomas, joined by Craig Burley and Shag at Hislop. And if that wasn't enough, and believe me, it isn't, Ian Dark joins us as well. Now, Ian Dark, who has been very much sticking up for Arsenal over the last 48 hours. If anyone joined us on Saturday and Sunday, you'd have seen the panel not impressed with the tactics that Arsenal employed in that defeat on penalties against PSG. People were critical of them, Ian. You, however, weren't. Well, I just think they took a pragmatic view of the situation. They were playing against probably the most dangerous attack you can put Barcelona in there in Europe.
1:57they've got the best defence. They score an early goal, probably not expected in the situation, and then they utilise their very best quality of being able to defend. And to be honest with you, Paris Saint-Germain did not look like scoring until they did with that penalty. So I think all I'm saying is, I'm not defending Arsenal and saying there should be a time when they play a more expansive game somewhere down the line. But in that match, on that occasion, against that menacing an opponent, I think he got the tactics strike right bang on and they were a penalty shootout away from succeeding and walking away with the Champions League trophy.
2:40They didn't in the end, but it was a 1-1 draw, just in case anybody needs to be reminded of that. Yeah, Craig. I don't really want to get into that. I'll be honest, I was really hoping to talk about the World Cup today. I'm so excited. As I mentioned to you guys for 10 minutes before we came on air, I'm super excited about all these. Anyway, I don't know what the lad said on Sunday. My view hasn't really changed. And I never did expect Arsenal to go toe-to-toe with PSG and have 50 % possession or dominate them or outpass them. I never expected that. But I expected a bit of a hybrid, which was somewhere in between where they were at 24 or 25 percent, i.e.
3:27having maybe 35 to 40 percent possession of the ball. And possession stats are not everything, I know that. But without the ball, you can't do anything apart from defend. And if you're telling me the Premier League champions with one of the best assembled squads in Europe, one of the deepest squads in Europe, and I get it, that's a tactic. Or is it a tactic? I mean, is getting everybody behind the ball a tactic? It's not a master plan, it's not a genius, it's just getting everybody behind the ball. And that's why PSG found it a little bit more difficult. That's why PSG weren't at their best, because a lot of teams, even teams poorer than Arsenal, Shaq, when you get everybody behind the ball, it can be difficult to break down.
4:12My argument was that with this team, as good as PSG are, with this Arsenal team, they were more than good enough to have more than the possession and more of a threat than they did. And I just felt that they left a lot on the table. Yeah, I get it. PSG are a fantastic side. They passed the ball. But Arsenal are a very good side. They're Premier League champions for a reason. They spent millions for a reason. So to sit back in that manner in such a negative fashion, I think it was actually very, very disappointing, bearing in mind what they have at their disposal. Jack, we haven't seen you since, Stefano.
4:54I don't know what you're doing. World Cup prep. I've been here. Gallivanting. Here's my thing with Arsenal, and it's not just in this final, but it's throughout the entire season. There's no middle ground with Arsenal, right? The old cliche, this is a results game. Arsenal win the game. They get praised for those tactics. They lose. There is simply no middle ground. They have to take the criticism just as squarely. Nobody at any point in this season, well, certainly the way Arsenal have played the second half of the season at least, has said Arsenal deserve more. They get a result? Great. They don't.
5:29Nobody has said they deserve more. And that was reflective in the final as well. So, okay, great. You get your early goal. and to Ian's point, you kind of drag things out all the way through extra time at 1-1 and it comes down to a penalty shootout. But once you lose it, you've got to see criticism on your chin because you've not offered anything from the sixth minute when they scored. They didn't have a single shot on target after that opening goal. That, for me, means the criticism, regardless of the outcome of the penalty shootout, is fair. One of my issues is that they did not play PSG, obviously, in the Carabao Cup final.
6:07They played Man City, who, by the way, they're a stronger, better team, as 38 Premier League games proved this year. And yet their approach in the Carabao Cup final was very similar. It was as bad. And they got beat. So, you know, yeah, it was PSG, but they had the same mentality against Manchester City in that Cup final at Wembley and lost. Yeah, Kepa made a mistake, but still their performance was horrible. and yet they could go toe to Man City. Anybody that says they couldn't go toe to toe with Man City, it's crazy. They could have done, they chose not to. And as Shaq said, there was no middle ground.
6:44It was edgy box defending or maybe the odd sort of counter-attack. There was no sort of area in that game where, even in the City game, where they tried to get on the front foot. They come out in that second half and just sat in the edge of their penalty box. And that's basically what they did. And the graphic we just put up sort of proves the point of the long periods of that game where they really created very... Yeah, people still argue about the penalty. I don't think it was a penalty. I think the referee got it right. And the referee was right to blow up when the corner kick was coming in as well.
7:17You can ask former referees about that. So there should be no griping about that either. So all these things that Arsenal felt went against them did not. The only thing that went against them was their lack of foresight and trying to get a hold of the football, keep it better and cause PSG more problems because William Patchell, particularly early in the game he looked as if he was struggling a little bit and he's a very good player so you could get at this PSG defence it's Arsenal chose not to do it Ian? Well I think when he went to 1-1 they did try to do it they did try to get more on the front foot they brought Jocares on they changed the system a little bit they took a more attacking approach in the last few minutes, admittedly, of the 90.
8:03But I would say this, or I'd throw this question in. How many teams in Europe do you think would have any chance of containing Paris Saint-Germain trying to go toe-to-toe with them? Inter tried that hybrid version Craig's talking about last year or something like it and got hammered by five goals. So I think they took a pragmatic view. I think it's one thing for us to sit as observers and a lot of fully except Xhaka and Craig played the game at the top level. They know far more than me. But it's one thing to sit as observers and look at. If you were Mikel Arteta and your team were 1-0 up and you've got a great defence, what would you have actually done in that game?
8:45This is what Vitinha had to say after the game. He was also critical for Arsenal's approach to the Champions League final. Coming out and saying they had a lot of people in the middle. It's difficult when they have two lines like that. Most of the time, six in the back. We know they play one specific way that takes us out of the game. That's what they want. The time they take to make everything, the corners, the fouls, goal kicks, everything. I'm not criticising their strategy. It was very... Mascaro got booked in the first half for time-wasting. The second half, that was just after the break, wasn't it?
9:17Oh, was it just after the break? Everything just seemed to take so long. But as Ian says, hey, if you're allowed to do it, why not do it? Don't get away with it. Look, there's no right and wrong way to win a game of football or win a cup final. But as Shaq rightly said, you live and die by the way you do it. And when it fails and you've tried to do it in a very negative way, the pile on is even more. It's a bit like Mourinho, in a sense, who's just stepping back into this Real Madrid job. When his teams became less successful as he moved to different clubs and he didn't quite have the calibre of player, his style of play, particularly later on in his managerial career, was scrutinised more.
10:07Because they could play poorly and a little bit more defensive. And he didn't always do that when he was at Chelsea or Porto. But he did do it a lot when he was at Inter in places like that. And they won the Champions League at Inter without getting out of their own half, basically, against Bayern Munich. But that's the difference. They won it. So the criticism is less. when you don't win it and you're playing a style like that you're inviting the pylon particularly when you have when you have players as good as Arteta has at his disposal I go back to the point about taking on PSG head to head more often than not if you try and do that you'll get beat but think back to a team who finished what almost well what did the Chelsea finish this is 9th 10th 9th mid table think about their performance in Paris yeah they got beat in the second leg and we all expected them to get beat over two games against PSG.
10:59But think even an average Chelsea team, how they approached the game in Paris and sort of took it to PSG and it was a competitive NTN game and it showed some flaws and some deficiencies in that Paris Saint-Germain side. Now, those were flaws that they put right in the second leg. But you could get at them on a one-off game. You could show the weaknesses in their team. And that's the criticism I've got, that it's not PSG versus a team in the bottom half of the Premier League. It's PSG versus the Premier League champions with a very talented, a very deep squad, and they chose to do it in that way.
11:37And when you choose to do it in that way, you better damn well make sure you win the game. And they did not. Ian, is the time wasting worse for Arsenal, or do we just notice it more? I think it's prevalent throughout the game, and I'm glad to hear in the last 36 hours that FIFA are going to try to do something about it at the World Cup and to try to just clear that up. No, I mean, I think all teams leading in games, in big matches, are trying the dark arts to waste time, take time out of the game, and it's pretty ugly. So, no, I'm not applauding that one thing at all. What I would say, or what I would ask, I think, here is, what would the verdict of Arsenal's performance have been had they won the penalty shootout?
12:22the same what would people say about how if I'm not wrong the British press certainly would be saying what a masterclass by Arteta brilliant well the British press are desperate for an English team to win because they're very patriotic that way I was looking at it more from a neutral perspective if they'd won the penalties fine but they'd won the game in a dogged defensive pretty horrible way and that's okay but they did not and it might not have gone to penalties and that's that's my point the fact that they didn't think they could go at PSG and win the game and almost were reliant on trying to see it out from a defensive aspect tells me that's not a a very you know efficient mindset going forward that you don't feel that you you know Bayern Munich could okay they went out in the two legs, Bayern Munich, but they felt they could take it to PSG.
13:22That was a Bayern Munich side that when Arsenal were playing better in the first half of the season and in a different mentality and were going toe-to-toe with teams, they beat Bayern Munich. But they regressed back to worrying about, this is only my opinion, they regressed back to worrying about what may happen, particularly in the Premier League when we saw their performances, they were worried about the title and that's understandable because they hadn't done it for 22 years. They were worried about getting over the line, but that sort of bled through into their whole mindset and every competition.
13:51It was a sort of fear factor, whereas in the beginning of the season, there was less fear. There was more flamboyance about their play. And if you're saying to me that they couldn't have put up, and I agree, look, that was the tactic that they decided to go with, wouldn't have else got the goal. But there's no way in the world anybody can tell me that Arsenal couldn't have made more of that game with ball possession and chances than they did, giving themselves an opportunity not to go to extra time and not to go to the lotteries of penalty kicks. Go on, Jack. No, it's just to Ian's question. As I was saying before, had they won the penalty shootout, Arsenal would have been praised, Arteta would have been praised for his tactics and the way he set up and how disciplined they were defensively.
14:37And I don't have an issue with that. I'm fine with you taking those plaudits when it works. But I have an issue, one second, I have an issue with people who call getting everybody, top players, behind the ball with Kai Havertz, 30 yards back inside his own half, making it a very tight block. That's one of the most simplistic things to do in football. That's not master plans. That's not tactics. That's just succeeding possession and getting everybody behind the ball. I will go head-to-head with anybody that tells me this is tactics to do that. It's not. I'm not having a go at you. I'm just saying.
15:22I understand. And I agree. I agree. But such is the nature of the game. They win the game. Arsenal appraised Arteta for how we set up on the defensive discipline. But this is my point. There is absolutely, when you play football like that, there is absolutely no middle ground. You win, you take the plaudits. You lose, the criticism is going to come in piles. And you have to accept that as well. Arsenal went out in that game for 120 minutes at no point trying to win the game. They played 120 minutes trying not to lose it. and then got the benefit of a poor Marquinhos clearance off of Trossard and Havertz getting in behind to take that opportunity, which, as early as it came, kind of doubled down on that we better not lose this as opposed to let's go out and win the game.
16:13Just a reminder, a lot more talk on the Champions League final on the latest edition of the Gab and Jules podcast. Why are you groaning? No, it's not the podcast. It's more Arsenal chat. The shooter's got his PSG top on. When you're at work, you never know when you're going to get interrupted. Like when an office fire drill happens right in the middle of your presentation or constructions going on just outside your window. But with a Dell Pro laptop powered by Intel Core Ultra with V Pro, no matter how many interruptions you have, your laptop won't be one of them. with battery that's optimized for the way you work and built-in intelligence that quiets distractions the moment you're trying to focus your tech won't slow you down even when you're getting bounced from an office you forgot to reserve the Dell Pro built for those who stay in the flow find technology built the way you work at dell.com forward slash dell dash pro Built for you.
17:17Look, the economy is a lot right now. And if you're a small business owner, you probably feel it. You can't control interest rates or tariffs, but you can control how efficiently your business operates. Automating payroll and HR with Gusto is one of the fastest ways to cut friction and focus on what actually moves the needle. Gusto is online payroll and benefit software built for small businesses. It's all-in-one, remote-friendly, and incredibly easy to use, so you can pay, hire, onboard, and support your team from anywhere. It's quick and simple to switch to Gusto. Just transfer your existing data to get up and running fast.
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18:36Brazil 6, Panama 2 in their first World Cup friendly ahead of the start of the tournament. Vinicius Junior on the score sheet. We also saw Casemiro scoring as well. A convincing win for Carlo Ancelotti's side. Ian Dark, of course, will be at the World Cup. He loves it, Ian. Can't help himself. He's still going. Pros and cons of Brazil for us, please, Ian. well I think you know the Ancelotti factor is fantastic really isn't it what a talking point it is I think he's getting Brazil together in the right kind of way with the right plan maybe of silk and steel I think you can forget all the old cliches about Samba football I think there'll be a little bit more pragmatic than that and they probably need to be but you know look they've got Vinicius they've got Rafinha Casemiro has been recalled you know seems to have revived his career they've got Marquinhos and Gabriel at the back so you know they worked the last time the World Cup was in the United States they won it so and with not one of their best sides so they're in the conversation I'd say look at that group they're in they're walking through that group obviously well Morocco will be a tough game Morocco will be a tough game but you know three you know there's a chance three teams are going to get out in this ridiculous new format.
19:58So it's never been easier to get out of a group stage. So there's no danger teams like Brazil are not going to get out. I just hope they're not as pragmatic as Arsenal. You've just said you've had enough of talking about Arsenal. And then you bring it back to Arsenal. Ian mentioned pragmatism. I think they will be. Oh, Shaco. Eight weeks. Eight weeks of this I've got. How long is the World Cup this year? It's a little longer, isn't it? Tell you what. Oh, you look defensively, you would look at this and maybe suggest that that's where the weakness is, Ian.
20:34Yeah, possibly. And, you know, maybe the fullbacks. I don't know. I mean, I don't see Brazil week in, week out. I mean, they were fifth in the World Cup qualifying. They went through three coaches and he didn't look good. But I think they're starting to get their acts together and maybe about the right time. I mean, of course, Ancelotti is a marvellous coach. And I think he works a lot on defensive organisation. He works less on attacking work, I read, because he believes in giving those attacking players the liberty and the flair to express themselves. And they've got the players to do exactly that, of course.
21:09I mean, the Neymar story is a great one as well, isn't it? Not played for them for three years and recalled, though I think he's going to go into the tournament carrying a bit of an injury. but should be fit for the second game at least. Meanwhile, let's talk about another one of the favourites, shall we? England in Group L alongside Panama. How are they the 33rd? I don't know. I really don't know. Maybe they just had a bad day at the office in that film. Oh, yeah, Craig, yeah, I'm sure. Ghana and Croatia make up Group L. Ian, let's take a look at the starting 11 that you think Thomas Tuka will go for in that opening match against Croatia.
21:48share some questions marks as to whether or not it'll be Morgan Rodgers who will start. But you've got him over Real Madrid's Jude Bellingham. Yeah, well, he seems to have a slight reservation about Bellingham. And Rodgers is kind of like the man in occupation. So you asked me for a guess. I don't pick the England team. But I think a lot of people feel that that's probably the way he might go. The other question will be on the left. would you go Anthony Gordon or Rashford? I mean, I've said Rashford there. I think the rest of it is pretty much how it's going to be beyond too much argument. What are your feelings?
22:28How far can England go? Ian, you've seen them playing a lot of World Cups. I don't really like the squad that he's named. I think he's left a lot of flair at home, a little bit too much. I mean, for instance, you've got a lovely progressive passer, a young player with real talent in Adam Warton. He's left him at home and picked Jordan Henderson because apparently he's good in the dressing room and a good tourist. So I don't get that one at all. I don't get leaving out Harry Maguire because I don't see how Dan Byrne or for that matter, young Quonzo, who's been playing in Germany, could be above a guy who's in form, scores from set pieces, experience.
23:07But, you know, that's another one. I know they've had Morgan Gibbs-White in there as well. But look, Thomas Tuchel knows what he's doing. This is the squad that he's picked. Yeah, I think England have got a bit of a squeak, but I think it's an outsider's squeak, really. I mean, he has left a lot of match winners at home, guys that if a game's going, particularly later on in the tournament, and they will get out of the group, when a game needs to be changed, if it's not going your way and you need a goal, you need a bit of magic, he's left quite a few of those players, even though they haven't been playing well.
23:39Morgan's Gibb White has been playing well Cole Palmer and Phil Foden not so much but they have got that game changing moment in them but he's decided to leave them at home the Jordan Henderson one just to have somebody in the dressing room who's good around the camp is a real head scratcher because England are not exactly deep in the midfield as it is and the Rodgers one I agree with Ian but it is going to cause an interesting dynamic because you well know bet your bottom dollar when that first game comes along and Morgan Rodgers is in and the second game comes along and Morgan Rodgers is in, Jude Bellingham's not going to take that line down.
24:16His dad's going to be down in the dressing room. He's not. That is going to be a rat race for the English journalist to get to Jude Bellingham to see what the hell's going on, to try and get a word, to try and get a line. And I think Thomas Tuchel knows this. And in some sense, he's fanned the flames for this in the last six to eight months with some of the things he said about Jude Bellingham and about his relationship with him and about his place in the team. And trust me, and I know you watched that French documentary. I did, yeah. The Roman Dominic. Very good, by the way. From 2010 when it all went wrong.
24:50And most of that probably was down to him. But when things fester like that within a World Cup, within a squad, within a hotel in such a tight-knit position that you're in, then it's never good. There's no good can come of it. So that is a very interesting dynamic, A, if Rodgers plays, which I think he will, and he's certainly playing well enough, and B, how is Jude Bellingham's ego going to handle that, if at all? Let's take you through some other friendlies that have been taking place over the last 24 hours. Tokeia in action against North Macedonia, who are also in the US men's national teams group.
25:27They are. Call them Turkey. Otherwise it's going to be a long World Cup. They want to be called Tokeia. What do you want me to do?
25:38Who's playing, Shaq? Takem, against North Macedonia. 60 minutes on the clock, Takem make it 2-0. Who's in here with the goal? Not refusing. You're not getting involved if you're not going to change your name to halfway through. Halfway through? We want to be called this now. Into the second half we go, Dennis Gould makes it 3-0. I'm not sure it's intended header, gets his head on it, just kind of loops almost harmlessly but finds it back in the net. 20 minutes to go, Yilmaz puts the icing on the cake, a nice warm up then for Takeria. Even though it's friendly, I don't think it makes good viewing for the US.
26:19I think it's going to be a tough, relatively tough group as it is and you know, Turkey are looking stronger than the West certainly a couple of years ago. So yeah, that could be... The good news, I suppose, for the States is that Takeiro, the third game. So in theory, you get the easier games out of the way first, and then in theory, you've qualified maybe going into that clash. Well, yeah, football's not played in theory. Well, no, it's very true, Craig. Shaq, it will be breaking down what we saw yesterday in that win against Senegal alongside Herc and Alexis on Football America's Live Tonight, Shaq, yes?
26:54Yes, sir. 8.30. Are you looking to rebound from your high interest credit card debt? A SoFi personal loan can help you get back on track. Consolidate your debt with a SoFi personal loan into one loan monthly payment. And you could save money on interest over time. And with as soon as the same day funding, you could hit the ground running ASAP. Apply today with no fees required at SoFi.com slash debt rebound. Loans originated by SoFi Bank, NA member, FDIC. Terms and conditions apply. NMLS 696891. Fast funds terms apply at SoFi.com slash Debt Rebound. Grab a cotton candy five hour energy shot and get in on the sweet life.
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27:57Away from Champions League and World Cup, the big story in England this weekend was the sacking of Arna Slott. Iriola very much the favourite to come in and replace the Dutchman. Ian, do you like this appointment? Yeah, I think it's the right choice by Liverpool because I think they seem to want to get back to something like they were doing under Jurgen Klopp. You know, Mo Salah called for it, didn't he, really? A return to the heavy metal style. And they did drop off a long way. So I don't think Arnaz Slaat has got a long and detailed case to make in his defence for losing the job. Ira Ola is something else, really, isn't he?
28:38I mean, I love the way his Bournemouth team plays. They never seem to play with any fear at all. It doesn't matter where they're playing. They're on the front foot, high press. It should be good. But I mean, I think the only reservation is that the jobs he's had in the main so far, Rayo Vallecano and Bournemouth, have been with smaller clubs. Can he make that jump up where the expectation levels are so high at a club like Liverpool? But I think he probably can. Can he make that jump, Shank? I don't see why not. Noseley Premier League worked absolute wonders with Bournemouth, to Ian's point, with a smaller budget.
29:12But when you're able to do that with a team on that smaller budget, who continually loses players in the manner that he did, I think he earns his chance. Nobody starts their career at the very top. Erreola has proven himself, worked himself up. I have no reason to doubt that he will be a success at Liverpool. Meanwhile, Craig, I saw these quotes from Real Madrid president Fiorentino Perez and I thought of you, given not only your love of the World Cup, but the Club World Cup as well. And Perez said the Club World Cup killed us this season. We did have a pre-season and after three months we had 28 injuries.
29:46It's a learning experience. I want to play in the World Cup, but not by throwing away a whole season. Well, he's got a slight memory issue, old Florentino, with things that have gone on. He put a gold standard on Real Madrid winning the Club World Cup. Yes. And if he's moaning about injuries, right, the aforementioned Jude Bellingham, was requiring shoulder surgery to have it at the end of the season, to make sure he was fit for pre-season, to make sure he was fit for the start of the season, along with others. And that was put on hold, so he could play in the Club World Cup. So what the hell is Florentino Perez talking about?
30:30He can't remember what he said yesterday, or the week before, or the month before. He says whatever it suits him, whatever suits Real Madrid. And he wanted the Club World Cup. He didn't get it. He got the injuries. He got a horrible season and he got what he deserved. Simple as that. Ian, is this a valid excuse? Probably not. I think I agree with Craig on this. But, you know, you think about that club World Cup and I was thinking when I was watching it in that burning heat, and it'll be the same at this World Cup, of course, you know, somebody like Cole Palmer, who played very, very well in that and had a fantastic game in the final against Paris Saint-Germain.
31:05Is he suffering a bit of burnout from that, from not getting a proper break? I mean, this is a bigger issue. Come on, Ian. PSC made it through to the final and they made it to the Champions League final. Oh, and they won it. Sure. OK. All right. That's another argument. But, Danny, you're saying that player burnout isn't a bit of an issue. Footballers can't perform for 50 weeks of the year. Not at a good level. Shaka? To your question, it's not a valid excuse. Everybody could kind of see those issues coming with a tournament that early in the summer and then trying to build into pre-season. I'm sure Florentino Perez and Real Madrid have any number of football experts at their disposal, which should have warned him.
31:50If they didn't, then that's on them. But no, it's by no means a valid excuse. Because one team, PSG, who did have a slow start to the season and did have a lot of injuries, by the way, because they won the Liga, won Ligue 1, because they won the Champions League again back-to-back, it's not an argument for the Club World Cup because they managed to cope with it. Managing to cope with the scenario is not an argument for. It's just not even close. There is no... This is a deeper discussion that I don't want to get into. But we're going into this FIFA World Cup with 48 teams. With more games, with a longer World Cup, it starts earlier, it finishes later.
32:30When it finishes later, there's less time to get off before you go back to your club for pre-season. And when you go back to your club, they want their pound of flesh. because they're paying you wages. They've got a big season coming up. They may have a new manager. They're under pressure. And as every year goes by and you increase the games and shorten the time frame of rest, the quality is going to go down. And I thought the quality in the Premier League this season wasn't very good. And I think that's a subsequent cause of it. And you could maybe look at other leagues as well and say, is the quality across the board improving or decreasing because of the amount of games players are playing.
33:12And there is not an argument to say the more you play, the better you'll be. There's just not an argument. Sports science would just laugh you out of the room at that. So Florentino Perez is just another one talking in riddles. And yeah, if FIFA think the Club World Cup was a success because the players played and PSG had a successful season, then that's just not going to stack up. There is still action going on in Spain at the moment as they are looking to decide who will be in La Liga next season. Castellan against Almoré, Las Palmas against Malaga. The two semifinals, they are both live on ESPN Plus on Saturday and Sunday at 3 p.m.
33:53Eastern.
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34:35Terms and conditions apply. Game day at my place is kind of a big deal. If I'm grilling, chilling, and watching hoops, my outdoor patio setup better be ready to play. That's where Wayfair wins. From patio seating and umbrellas to grills and grilling accessories, Wayfair has got it all, and it shows up fast. I'm talking championship level fast and easy delivery. So level up your grill game and your outdoor chill game and head to Wayfair.com now to get your outdoor space ready for the season. Here's some news in case you missed what's been going on over the last 24 hours. Rodri said joining Real Madrid now.
35:13I'm focused on the World Cup. After that, we will see. Not denying it then? Definitely not denying it. Enrique Sureso, the Atletico Madrid president, Julian Alvarez is an Atleti player and not just for this season but for many others. A lot of speculation about him going to Barcelona. And James Milner has retired after 24 Premier League seasons. We'll be talking more on that on the next edition of Extra Time which is available on YouTube.
35:42Norway against Sweden. I fancy Norway to have a good run in this World Cup given the quality they have on show up front. nine minutes in, Strand Larsson would make it 1-0. That's a really nice finish. Poachers goal. I think it was destined for the back of the net regardless. Some of the big hitters not even there. There he is there. Dressed like, I don't know what he's dressed like. Very strong side, sweet Norway are going to beat this World Cup. I'm telling you, it's going to be a real threat to some of the bigger boys. but listen don't think beating this hat with sweden team i mean talk about a joke then being at the world cup finish bottom with a qualifying group embarrassing strand last again three nil stupid nations league got into the world cup what's all that about they might do a denmark and then with uh 14 minutes to go in the game uh isak uh gets one back here nice feet brilliant goal really nice really nice finish doesn't bother to celebrate such was the golfing class between the two well deflection as well so norway with the win let's just remind you the uh groups are both of these sides uh for norway they're with iraq senegal and france some cracking games within that group meanwhile group f netherlands japan sweden and Tunisia.
37:12Speaking of Tunisia, they're in action against Austria. Now 10 minutes before the break here, Austria down to 10 men. Now, I think it's given a yellow card here for a handball.
37:29They change it to red. It's a bit harsh. I thought it was harsh. That's very, very harsh. I mean, it's a bit harsh and it's a friendly. Exactly. Seriously. Samit Sahir scores the only goal of the game. Ten-man Austria with the win.
37:48Okay then. Let's remind you of Austria's group. They're with Jordan, Algeria and defending champions Argentina. Speaking of Jordan, they're taking on Switzerland. England. 24 minutes in here and a penalty be awarded as Fule is brought down in the box. Referee doesn't give anything initially, goes over to the old monitor. Initially I thought he just lost control of the ball here but it's clear contact from the goalkeeper. Why are they bothering having monitors in friendlies? Why are they even having balls in friendlies? What's the point? Why have friendlies? Why have any football? But you don't need all the VAR stuff in friendly.
38:34If you're getting sent off, it should be for a dangerous time. Endoy makes it 2-0 here. Another penalty after a VAR review. Craig, what are your thoughts on VAR reviews in friendly? Big advocate. Just more time being wasted while a referee flaps around. Mbolo scores another penalty. Xhaka. Yeah. Oh, Xhaka scores. Great season for Sunderland. Terrific. To make it 3-0 into the second half we go. Jordan get one back. Oh boy. Lovely. That's cool. Christian here makes it though 4-1 to Switzerland. Bad touch from the defender. They're in the World Cup. Yep. It's going to be fun. That is true. It's going to be fun.
39:30A reminder of the Switzerland group. Qatar, Canada, Bosnia and Herzegovina. What days are that group playing?
39:41That's Canada, Bosnia and Bosnia is the second game, isn't it? Some more friendlies coming up, all live on ESPN, Craig. I know they are. Bolivia, Scotland. Brazil, Egypt. Argentina, Honduras. Morocco, Norway. Colombia, Jordan and Argentina against Iceland. Me and Craig will be doing that game for you. I'm off in the fifth, sixth and seventh but I did ask specifically to come back for that game. Shaq have you seen this? This is very you. As we head to Ecuador, second tier of football in Ecuador.
40:20Oh, he got back on the pitch. Oh, boy.
40:30Oh, God. Not a lot of sympathy from the driver, is it? What about when you were playing golf with your dad and he fell out the golf cart? Yeah. He laid it on a bit thick, didn't he? He rolled down the hill. Get up, man. Oh, this World Cup's going to be fun, isn't it? It's going to be fun for you boys. Stay tuned. Ian's back. Extra Time is next. All those great games.
41:03Welcome to the latest edition of Extra Time. Ian is just about surviving with his internet. You keep asking me this, I don't know, I know as much as you do. Craig, we're not going to New York until July. Okay. So there's lots of time to... I'm being told we are in this. I know, I heard them. Okay. You don't have to repeat yourself. I don't know, I didn't know if he was talking to you as well, didn't I? There's lots of time to get angry about New York. Let's just start with the Bristol segment. Ian, what's the first game you're doing? I'm doing the first game at Mexico City. Mexico against South Africa.
41:40Big time. I know Craig's looking forward to that. I think Craig's off. Please. Question for the three Mundalistas. What is the motivation like when you've already been called up for the World Cup and will go into playing a friendly preparation game? Foot on the gas, we'll take it easy. You were here, weren't you, for one of your friendlies? Were you in Connecticut? Yeah. Both 96 and 98, we came to the States. Yeah. In 1996 we played one in New Britain. It must have been New Britain. There's a stadium there somewhere. A small stadium. I don't know why the US played it there. And then the other time we played it down in DC, the old Washington...
42:21What do they call them now? The Commanders. At their old stadium. That was... boiling. But yeah, now, how did you approach it? Look, you're preparing for a World Cup, obviously. So... Some of the players are trying to impress because they think they're not on the side so it's a different mindset for them if they get a game. And if you think you know you're going to play, which most of us did, because the team was pretty set, so it wasn't a difficult thing. So now you're in preparation mode, which is keeping your sharpness up, but make sure you don't get injured. Whereas if you're maybe on the fringe, you're taking a slightly different mindset because you're thinking you're pushing and using those friendlies to try and impress the manager.
43:05But yeah, it's about keeping your sharpness. But bear in mind, you play the full season, so you don't want to do too much. And obviously, if you're playing in the heat, you've got to be really careful. But yeah, don't get injured. We saw one of the Scotland lads getting injured at the weekend, Billy Gilmer, who now misses against Curacao. Curacao? Curacao? Curacao, yeah. Curacao. All right. Everybody's popping up there. Have they just helped? Is that how the World Cup's going to be? Pronunciations, people are just going to correct. Well, if it's the wrong, yes. Well, that's... Was it wrong? Yes.
43:38Well, what is it? Curacao. Right. What did I say? Curacao.
43:45Sounds like a chocolate drink. Is this how the World Cup's going to be? This is how... If you were going to have a go at me for saying curacao, I'm not coming at you. If this is how it's going to be, I'm not coming at you. Shaq, it was different for you because you were third-choice goalkeeper. Did you even play in friendly? How could you be third-choice, though? Because you were better than the other two. I'm just telling you what Leo Benaka told me. I played in one or two of the Phillies. I'm trying to remember. But for us, I mean, it was different for trying to be a week going into the tournament at a time as the smallest nation to have qualified.
44:20And what we did not want in those warm-up games is to get absolutely trounced. So for us, it was foot on the gas per the question, in theory. I remember we played against Czech Republic. Pavel Nedved. Excuse me. They were Czech Republic at the time. That's who we played. That's then. I'm just saying. No, no. You're going to correct me. I'm going to correct you. We played against them then. If we played against them today, they'd be Czechia. But then they were Czech Republic. Anyway, Pavel Nedved just stood in the middle of the park and just sprayed passes everywhere. Like, he didn't get, he didn't come out the centre circle.
44:55It was absolutely frightening to watch. And we were, I get to the question, foot on the gas, I couldn't get anywhere near it. Ian, when you're commentating friendlies, have you got a cigar on, glass of whiskey, not taking it seriously as proper games? I tell you what, they're more difficult than the actual championship games because they changed the whole team at half time. There are players coming on who you've hardly got a note on and you've got to re-identify. So give me the World Cup proper every time over any friendly. For Ian, both Craig and Stewart criticise Arsenal's play in the final, comparing it to 1980s football.
45:30As someone who watched and commentated in the 80s, is their assessment accurate or are they being too harsh on 80s football? Oh, boy. Haven't we covered this tonight? We're not going to do it all again, are we? No, and that's wrong. that's wrong the person whoever it is it's wrong we did not describe Arsenal as 80s football we described those kick-offs as harking back to the 80s football where they took the kick-off and they launched it forward which Robbo did remind us that PSG have knocked the ball into the corners themselves to squeeze a team in the corner with a throw-in so we described the three times Arsenal took a kick-off and just lobbing it forward in the air is 80s football.
46:23So let's get things factually correct here. Otherwise, there'll be a walkout. Again. What was wrong with 80s football anyway? Well, everything.
46:38Diego Maradona, Michel Platini. No, I was talking about England. 80s football. Oh, right. Okay, yeah. Ian, is Julian Alvarez really the player Barcelona should break the bank for to get the next level and win the Champions League? League. Well, unless their finances have changed dramatically, well, they might have. They've already spent a fortune on Anthony Gordon. Can they stretch to Alvarez as well? I mean, I think he's a terrific player. Lewandowski's leaving, so you could do a lot worse than get Alvarez. But it sounds like Atletico are going to play very hard ball. And understandably, they want to keep him.
47:16whether Alvarez wants to stay, that's another matter. Ian, start, bench and drop. Firmin Lopez, Ryan Cherky and Arda Gula.
47:28I'd play Cherky at the moment.
47:34Gula, probably the bench. Who was the third one? Firmin Lopez. Firmin Lopez. Well, I think he's injured, so at the moment, that makes it easy for me. The core reason Marquinhos bypassed the trophy celebration was that he saw his own past heartbreak flash before his eyes. Marquinhos famously missed Brazil's decisive penalty against Croatia in the 22 World Cup quarterfinals, a moment that haunted him deeply. They talked about this yesterday, and we didn't talk about it on Saturday. What's to talk about? Marquinhos, instead of celebrating with his teammate, consoling Brazilian teammates. I suppose he did celebrate at some point.
48:13Yes, but the initial reaction was to go over to his friend. Yeah, and it's not a time to, although there will be one or two players with a mindset of that out, it's not a time to rub somebody's nose in it. He's not rubbing his nose. He was going to console him. He was being nice. He was. What? I know that. So why are you talking about rubbing his nose in it? I'm just saying most players, it's not a time to be rubbing somebody's nose in it. But nobody was rubbing their nose in it. But I'm getting to that point. Get to it quicker. No. Why did you bring up that in the first place? Because I'm saying it's not a time to be doing it, so to have some humility is fine.
48:46It's no big deal. It's going to be a lot... When's this World Cup start? Isn't it just a nice... Can't you just say it's a nice moment? Yeah, it's not... What's the problem? Has your voice gone high? I don't have an issue with it. I don't have an... It's fine. Right. I wasn't expecting you to have an issue with it. What do you want? You want him to get a Nobel Peace Prize because he's done it? It's just a lovely moment, isn't it? It's not that lovely. There we go. That's what I was going for. I knew that was coming. I mean we make we make a mountain out of mohel with every damn thing. All right he went over and put his arm out unlucky and then so what?
49:24So what? I mean it would have been much worse if he'd rubbed his nose in it wouldn't it? Yes you mentioned that. Well that's something to talk about not somebody you know. I think it's a lovely moment isn't it Ian? It's probably on our social media platform. Yeah, well, that's a Brazilian team mate. Yeah. Yeah, I think I'm with you, Dan. Yes. It was a lovely one. Yes. Oh, beautiful flowers. Send flowers. I'm a football romantic too, Dan. Me and you and Ian. Yeah, all of us are a person. Yeah, me, you and Ian. Hey, it happens. You miss a penalty. You let your team down. Things happen. What do you want?
49:55What do you want? What do you want? What do you want? What do you want? You want somebody to console you? Yeah, what do you want? You want somebody to console you? What do you want? You want therapy? You want therapy now? You want somebody to rub your nose in it? You want to phone 24-7 therapists for Gabriel because he's not going to be able to handle it. That's the way the world's going. Ian, James Milner retired today after 24 seasons in the Premier League. How incredible is that longevity?
50:22Seriously, what a footballer. What a tribute to his fitness, conditioning, magnificent pro footballer, James Milner. So, I mean, I'm sure he's going to not leave the game. I'm sure he's going to play some role somewhere with some club and they'll be good to have him. I'm absolutely terrific, bro. Yeah. 658 games. How many did you do? I can't remember. I got the 58. I have, listen, guys like this, this to me is much more interesting than when you see the fancy Dan's retiring. Seeing somebody like him, who's played every position for a lot of clubs, an unbelievable amount of games, and given everything that every time he plays, I much prefer to see, and you know when you see these players, some of them retiring, you think, yeah, I know, brilliant player, but just loves the limelight.
51:20You know, players like Milner, Gareth Barry was another. There's so many, but there's not so many. There's a few of them, but to call him a workhorse would be a disservice but an unbelievable talent. He was 16 years old, I think, when he was at Leeds as a wide player. To go from there to have him played central midfield, to have won the Champions League, to have played full-back to England, unbelievable. It's an unbelievable achievement. Craig, you said Barca play the high line and it's wrong. Arsenal park the bus for 120 minutes. Oh, one second. When are we going to have people watch this programme that actually got half a brain in their head?
51:5420 % possession and lose and you say that's also wrong. what's the right way to play football then? Who's sent it in? Javi, Javi, Javi. Engage the brain, sunshine. Engage the brain if you've got one. I mean, when have I ever said the high line is wrong, right? That's the second thing today in this show that's factually incorrect. I've always said the high line is extremely dangerous. Curacao was third. Curacao was probably the third thing. Curacao. Thank you. Yeah, well, you got it wrong. It's going to be a long six weeks, folks. Isn't it? Yeah. Ian. You're at Fox Ian. You're all right. You're off getting paid by somebody else.
52:33Don't you chime in. Any chance you take me there? Oh, please. My lord. Craig, it's good you're looking forward to the World Cup. I'm looking forward to some games. And there's some games I'm not. I'm not going to lie. And I'll tell you why. They're going to be garbage. When you have 48 teams, they're going to be garbage. Back to the point. Yes. I've never said Barcelona's high line is wrong. because a way of playing is not wrong. It's a choice. Right. And that's always a risky choice, particularly when you come up against the elite opposition, which is maybe arguably why they were not in the Champions League final both seasons.
53:09They managed to do it in La Liga, where Real Madrid certainly fell away and Atletico Madrid were, not to take any away from them, but Atletico Madrid were inconsistent. So I've never said that was wrong. And I didn't say Arsenal's approach was wrong. I said it was it left a bad taste in the mouth. So if you're gonna send someone at this show Yes, get your facts right or sod off. Thank you very much for all your questions. Oh, thank you What's the most overrated food that you've that everyone seems to love Shack? Is there something that everyone loves but you don't? Truffles. Ah, I like truffles mustard.
53:43Sorry. I don't like truffles. Truffles the chocolate truffles or the truffles? No, no, the shaved truffles of your fancy food That's a lot of money, yes. That's Parmesan.
53:55The Scottish Truffle. I'm betting that's Parmesan cheese. Do you like mustard? Do you like mustard? I don't like mustard. No, I don't like mustard. Mustard and horseradish? No, I don't like horseradish. No. No, the English mustard I don't like. I like the yellow American style mustard. English mustard is yellow as well. That's why I didn't want American style mustard. You said you don't like the yellow mustard. I said yellow American style mustard, that's what I said. Yeah, I apologise, I'm in the mood with him. I'm taking that on you. It's unfair. What's going on between you two? I've not been funny, but I think I'm going to have to bring some oxygen in the studio during this World Cup.
54:35Right. I think every now and again I'm going to have to put a mask on to calm myself down. God, I might just ask for a new liver again, just going to have two months off. I'll tell you what, with this World Cup, I think I'll go for one as well. Oh, it's over now. I'll come with you. Imagine waking up in ICU and he's next to me, banging on to the doctor for saying something. And it happens we've got a two-for-one special going on. He's just waking up from his liver transplant. Have you seen the schedule? Walking at 12 o 'clock at night. What's all that about? Argentina, Iceland. Ian, what do you hate?
55:08Oh, I'm not crazy about peppers. I have to remove peppers. Oh, you have to? It's weird. I know everybody loves them. No, no hot peppers, sweet peppers. Don't apologise Ian, that's alright. Someone else needs to apologise for their attitude today, but that's not going to happen. ESPN FC, probably Shaq. Who's that, Dad? Shaq, Shaq, Shaq, Shaq. ESPN FC, I apologise. Craig's off to play golf with old people, so he'll be happy. Shaq, apologise for me, will you?
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From the publisher
The FC crew continue to react to the Champions League final and question if Arsenal had the best approach to the game. Plus, the guys break down how they think Brazil will fare at the World Cup after Carlo Ancelotti's side thrashed Panama 6-2 on Sunday night. Plus, Ian Darke explains why he agrees with Florentino Perez's Club World Cup criticism.
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