Atlético Obliterates Barcelona

17:05Shaka Hislop:So I think Mikel Arteta in the end, even if you obviously drop technically two points, I don't think Arsenal were good enough tonight to win at Brentford.

17:15Dan Thomas:Nobody's doing... I saw Brentford, I've seen him a few times, but I saw them absolutely outplay Chelsea and lost because they made some mistakes. So it was always going to be a tough game for Arsenal. But, you know, the centre-halves with Thiago, you know, the physicality, 1-0 up you know at the end of the season you look back 1-0 up digging it out Sunderland 2-1 up dig it out lost some points there so these are the little moments where at the end of the season you look back and go wow we're decent pointing that actually or that's where it's cost us so we'll find out at the end of the year what that is but I tell you what Jules nobody is doing more in my opinion with less in the Premier League than Keith Andres

18:04Shaka Hislop:Yeah, you're right and at the time where we talk a lot about Thomas Frank and Brentford let him go and replacing him with Keith Andrews and this team being even better than the way last season without Mbomo no guards and Wisa is pretty much exceptional and you know tonight again they do all the basics so right everything in terms of their discipline defensively how aggressive they are on the front foot they are one of the most physical teams in the league the throws, the set pieces Igor Thiago up front that is such a handful, that midfield that works really well and they were very smart I thought especially in the first half which Arsenal a bit cold in the way they build up from the back, in their rotation in midfield which I don't think Arteta and Arsenal players expected that from them because that's not really what we've been used to so much so yeah credit to Keith Andrews again for the job that he's been doing and for the season that they're having they're still very much fighting to finish top six and seven, by the way.

19:04Shaka Hislop:Might still take them into Europe next season, which would be incredible for them.

19:08Dan Thomas:Just keep throwing City a bone, don't they? Absolutely. You know, Man United at home was unexpected. Dropped points. A couple of others, you know, Forrest away. Brentford, good side. You know, good side, but I think they've won the last four there, I believe. Might be wrong, but I think they've won the last four at the GTX Arsenal. and they just keep throwing that little bone City's way just to keep them from being demoralised. Because when you put somebody seven, eight, nine points behind at this point of the season, you go in the dressing room as an opposing player and go, we're getting no...

19:43Dan Thomas:You don't say it in front of the manager. Sure. Because, you know, he doesn't want to hear it. But amongst the players, they say, look at this Arsenal team. Yes. You know, they're just not... They're relentless. And it demoralises you as the chasing team. But they just keep giving... And I'm not saying they're really bad. They're not. The best squad in the country. The best team in the country. But they just keep giving Guardiola's team something to hang on to.

20:09Alejandro Moreno:Jokic is back in the starting 11. How would we rate him today, Jules?

20:14Shaka Hislop:I thought he worked really hard and clearly to beat that price, especially in the first half. Clearly the aim from Arsenal was to play long on him. And it's not easy when you've got Ayer behind you and the Brentford defenders. But I thought he did OK. There was a chance in that second half, we didn't show it on the highlights Where Arsenal moved the ball really well on the right hand side And then Rice, instead of going for goal himself Tried to play the ball almost in the six-yard box for Giocares And Coyote comes back and just cleared the ball at the moment Where Giocares is going to hit it and score from that close range You see the touch map that he had The problem, obviously, as you can see, is the last two numbers in the stats the fact that he had zero XG because there was zero shot on target, on goal.

20:58Shaka Hislop:And that's the problem, obviously, in a team like that. But tonight was a game where it would have been great for him to score, sure. But you also needed him more, sorry, for all that kind of work to get the block higher from Arsenal, to try to beat their players, to be a handful for the Brentford defenders, which I think he can do and try to do tonight.

21:19Dan Thomas:And currently where we are, Jules, say there's three games left in the season, right? Thinking ahead. City are levelling points are chasing you down. You've got Havertz, Giocares and Jesus fit. Where do you think he goes? What piece of the pawn does he put on the board?

21:38Shaka Hislop:I think Arteta would choose depending on who they face because I think there's... OK, Havertz was not available, was not fit for tonight. So it was Gabriel Jesus or Giocares. In a game like this, away, under the rain, the cold, the wind, everything you want, you put your Keres to play against that Brentford defense more than Gabriel Jesus, to be fair. And that's what he did. If the opponent had been somebody else tonight, he might have well more fancied Havertz if he'd been fair or Gabriel Jesus. The good thing, as we've explained before on the show, the difference of profiles, which I think is very good to have variations in your number nine that you can play because it will help you, different combinations you can have, different systems, but also you can adapt to the opposition.

22:20Shaka Hislop:Havertz is probably a bit of a mix of the two and then you've got two extreme profiles between Gabriel Jesus and Gilchores and that could be a good thing as long as, obviously, you pick the right guy if you do that depending on who the opposition is. What was you laughing at? Was that a chess reference?

22:36Alejandro Moreno:What was that? What piece of the pawn do you put on the board? I'm not a chess player. Well, clearly. What does that even mean? It's all I can think about. Jules with your arsehole. Hey, Jules got it. He was being polite. Oh, go home, you know. With your arse always, the Jokeres is great. Are you worried?

22:56Shaka Hislop:No, and I don't think anybody should be worried. Why would you be worried for? Four points, Jules. But four points. It could well be six, not this weekend because the FA Cup, but the following weekend. Or, you know, it could go up to more than that or it could stay at four. And, you know, City would have to play Brentford. OK, it'd be at the ETI, but they would still have to play Brentford. City are not going to win every single game between that he sounds worried he's worried no I'm not

23:22Alejandro Moreno:I promise you I just where is your bishop

23:25Shaka Hislop:on the board I don't understand why why you why you would say they're worried four points see your voice is not my much you can feel it because I'm trying to convince you and to tell you that relax let's all relax here everybody relax what's the bishop

23:42Alejandro Moreno:in the world what else is there that's a rook queen king More chess talk on Extra Time. Stevie's lovely new doormat. You can check that out over on YouTube. Right, lots happened at the bottom of the table, of course, over the last 48 hours. Sean Dye sacked at Narskin Forest after that goal is true against Wolves. We'll talk about that in a moment. But Spurs, of course, getting rid of Thomas Frank after their defeat midweek. Jules is still with us. Craig, you weren't here yesterday, obviously, to react to it. We spoke after that Spurs game and their poor performance once again. You were surprised a little bit?

24:18Alejandro Moreno:Because when we were discussing it after the match... No, I wasn't surprised.

24:20Dan Thomas:I just thought, no, I thought they would not bend a knee to the supporters as quickly. But clearly they've taken stock of not just the recent performance, but don't forget they qualified in the Champions League. And they've got a bye. Can you believe it? But I think, you know, where they are in the league, and I know they've got a lot of injuries, a lot of injuries, but where they are in the league, the performances, the results, the way that they've been battered by teams and they've had to come out in the second half and try and dig themselves out of a hole. the early sort of descent from players to the manager while walking off the field, the lack of discipline from your captain, which is not necessarily your fault, but you have to sort of deal with that and try and sort of, you know, make a big decision on people like Romero.

25:13Dan Thomas:I think there's been so many things that I just felt that Thomas Frank is, to be quite honest with you, I think a little bit out of his depth, jumping from the expectations at Brentford and how they played at Brentford with the physicality and the counter-attacking play compared to what they do now with Keith Andrews, which we talked about. They try and play actually football now and do play some good football. I think going into Tottenham and trying similar stuff is not what they wanted and it certainly wasn't happening. So I think it's a club that doesn't know what direction it wants to go in, if I'm being honest with you.

25:49I think they're swimming about in the pond

25:53Dan Thomas:and they don't know what side to go to. They just don't know. They're sinking. So what decision they'll make now, I don't know. But yeah, I know you said it the other day that I think he should go. And I think it would be hard to argue against that. I just felt the board would sort of bury their head for a few more weeks and see if it would go away. But I think clearly they've looked at it and said, no, listen, things ain't getting any better. And forget this pie in the sky that's been in the Champions League because the first half-decent team they're going to come up against, they're getting knocked out.

26:22Dan Thomas:It's as simple as that, they're getting knocked out. And so the league is the important scenario for them and they are spiralling to a relegation battle, so it had to be done.

26:33Alejandro Moreno:Jules, we've heard stories about Thomas Frank and where it went wrong, for example, on the training pitch. Just give the headlines of what we've heard over the last 24 hours.

26:42Shaka Hislop:I mean, there are so many. And again, I don't want to go again after him. For me, it's one of the most embarrassing, humiliating tenure that we've had for a manager in one of the big clubs in England. I'm not talking smaller clubs or lower divisions. For a top club in England, the stint that he had at the club is for me one of the most embarrassing. From being humiliated publicly by Van Der Ven and Jets Spence after that game where he asked them to go and clap the fans and they didn't even look at him. To the Arsenal Cup in that away game at Bournemouth. To obviously the bad results that we've seen.

27:16Shaka Hislop:I mean, over the last 10 league games, I think they've taken as many points as Wolves, for example. So from start to finish it was bad But I think for me what was the biggest problem Is the lack of authority that he brought And players not respecting him Which could be on the players, sure But when you arrive in a big dressing room like that And Craig knows it With big egos Big name players who've won more than you Because by the way you've won nothing in your career Which is true If you don't have that authority If there's no discipline You've lost already even before the season started then if you can't even engage with your players at training making your training sessions interesting where they actually feel okay he might not have won anything but there might be something interesting here you've even more lost than just by the lack of authority and discipline and that was also the case there's so many incidents there have been so many incidents so many problems for me he thought probably very naively that it could be exactly the same than and it was at Brentford, same guy, same training methods, same methodology, same philosophy, and just take it from Brentford, south London, southwest London, and take it to the north of London to Spurs.

28:26Shaka Hislop:You can't coach Spurs like you were used to coaching Brentford. It doesn't work. It just doesn't add up. You need to step up. It's a massive step up, by the way. Brentford, where everybody's happy about anything. They're just so happy to be in the Premier League, to go to Spurs with high expectations, high pressure, fans who demand probably a bit too much, but demand far more than the fans that you met at Brentford, and yet he never really understood that he had to try to step up to adapt himself to the new environment that he was in, and that again, was a massive mistake from him Wait, wait, didn't you all say at the start of that

28:59Alejandro Moreno:sentence, I don't want to pile on him here?

29:04Dan Thomas:I don't want to pile on him I'm just going to take the baseball back to him, no, I agree I totally agree. Out of his depth. Unfortunately for him, out of his depth. And in terms of the coaching scenario from clubs, it's kind of akin to Xabi Alonso, isn't it? Trying to go into Real Madrid with all the right thought process, but doing what he did at Leverkusen with these egos, with these superstars. You have to adjust. Whether that's right or wrong. Whether you're sitting at home going, well, players should just do what a manager wants. Yeah, in theory, yes. But it's not as simple as that. You have to go in.

29:38Dan Thomas:Some Eagles need massaged. Other people need to kick up the backside. And go back to the respect that clearly was lost when Spence and Van de Ven ignored the manager. And I've rarely ever, if ever, seen that. That has just lost the dressing room, right? But you don't lose the dressing room, or you shouldn't, when you walk in and you're not a big name and you haven't had a big playing career and you haven't managed big clubs. most players are still giving you a chance. They're giving you, unless you've got a real bad apple in the dressing room, most dressing rooms are giving you the chance still.

30:15Dan Thomas:OK, Thomas Frank, you're not this superstar player and you're not coming from Real Madrid or Barca or Bayern Munich or whatever it is. You're coming in from Brentford, but we're going to give you a chance. But something else has happened in the dressing room or on the training ground where these players, some of them, maybe not all, some of them have gone, he's clueless. Right. He doesn't, he's out of his depth and he doesn't know what he's doing because players just don't start blanking managers because they haven't had a big time career. Something else is, and you know, we talk about it with Stevie and Xhaka a lot, is that players can smell it when you walk into a dressing room.

30:55Dan Thomas:That authority, that understanding. When a coach puts training sessions on, players will go, I'll tell you what, that was decent. Right. I tell you what, that was interesting. I like that. Yeah, he's sharp. He's on it. But ultimately, and the opposite side of the spectrum, if a manager comes in and puts these sessions on that are embarrassing, players that have won World Cups like Romero and Dutch internationals like Van de Ven and many, many others will just go, he thinks we're going to do what they were doing at Brentford. And you lose the dressing. And once that happens, once that happens, you are screwed.

31:34Dan Thomas:And then we've seen the results of that on the pitch. And we've seen the results. And yeah, they've rolled their sleeves up in some of the games and came back. But if you watch the bulk of their games, particularly the first half performances, most of the teams they've played against have rolled them over. And then the players have come out in the second half because the home crowd have been battering them and rolled their sleeves up. Playing for themselves probably more than playing for the manager because 60 ,000 or however many it is are getting on the back. As soon as that happens as a player, you have to go out and try and quieten the crowd.

32:06Dan Thomas:So it seems to me that a lot has been going on behind the scenes. And I'm not saying it's right, but it seems to have turned a lot of the senior players against Thomas Frank. And by the way, I'm not making excuses for how he's been sacked. You've just got to deal with that as a coach. And I think he sowed his own seeds when he went in there with how he's gone about things.

32:29Alejandro Moreno:Who's going to be the next manager, Jules?

32:33Shaka Hislop:Well, I think they're going to go for an interim coach between now and the end of the season, obviously, which I think is the right thing to do because you just save the season, right? There's nothing for you to play for. You're not going to win the Champions League. You're not going to finish in Europe through the league either. All you need to do is avoid relegation. That's it, basically. So it'd be right for them to go for an interim coach, whether that's Johnny Heitinger, who, remember, we talked about it at the time when he was appointed as Thomas Franky's assistant, not coming at all from the kind of Thomas Frank team that he had at Brentford before, just came out a bit of nowhere, really.

33:06Shaka Hislop:And we thought, hmm, this is a bit weird. You did wonder already at the time if they were thinking, once Thomas Frank is gone, you've got the perfect interim coach there and Johnny Heitinger, who's got a bit of experience, like he was with Slott at Liverpool. Okay, Ajax is the number one, didn't really work out for him, but he could do that job. Ryan Mason could also come and help for the next three and a half months or so. And that probably would be enough because I don't think they would go down. And then the big one is who's coming next properly as a permanent coach. Pochettino is the dream that the club wants.

33:36Shaka Hislop:They want him back. The fans want him back. They're desperate for him to come back. I think he would like to come back too. We're in the right conditions. Probably that means with the power that he wants, certainly in terms of transfers and things like that. But I think if you give him that, I'm not saying this is the right thing. I always struggle a little bit with managers or even players coming back to a club where they were successful a few years down the line. I'm not sure if it's the right thing to do, but it's certainly the top of their shortlist. And then below that, you've got De Zerbe, you've got even Robbie Keane, you've got people like that.

34:10Dan Thomas:But Poch right now is the frontrunner by far. Is Bournemouth's form ruled out even Areola? I mean, because he was flavour of the month for a while. I mean, they've sold the best players. They had a great start to the season, then they fell off a cliff and they're starting to pick it up again. Glasner's the same. It's taken three or four months for the perception of these managers. Not the reality, the perception, which is sometimes difficult for a club to sell to the fans. Well, look at Palliser, you know, spiralling towards the relegation. Bournemouth have had this season. Sometimes fans don't see the bigger picture.

34:42Dan Thomas:These two managers, six months ago, were the top of the list on a lot of teams. But it's the perception of the seasons that some of them have had. And I think, I love watching Roberto De Zerbi's teams. but he's gone from a dumpster truck at Marseille if he goes into Tottenham with how they run that club he'll burn the place down he'll just be knocking heads within a few months so it's a real difficult one I'm with Gilles in a sense I don't think the fairy tale story often works, does it going back in Pochettino but at this moment in time there are not too many out there because we know Man United are looking around, they've got Michael Carrick doing a decent job, but where are they going to go?

35:28Dan Thomas:You know, there might be one or two other clubs looking for a manager. Who the hell knows what's going to happen at Liverpool at the end of the season? It's unlikely Arne Slott will be out of job, but not impossible. So it's not just going to be Tottenham looking for a top-class manager. So again, yeah, you might want to go short term to stave off relegation. Can you believe we're saying that, talking about Tottenham, we're their squad, but we are, so you might want to go short term, but there is a danger that other clubs will come and pickpocket some of these managers that are available, and you'll be left not even with the second best, third best, potentially the fourth best, and you're back to sort of square one again.

36:06Alejandro Moreno:Speaking of fourth, Nottingham Forest, on their fourth manager now of the season, Victor Pereira looks like he's going to come in to replace Sean Dyche, who was of course sat yesterday.

36:15Dan Thomas:Well, who was in the show, it was two days ago we were on, it was It was Stuart Robson. Yeah, Robbo, Nadam and you. Nadam and myself. And we had a question next time. It said, which team is more likely to go down at this moment in time? And I'm not saying we're right, but all three of us said Nottingham Forest. And that was before the Wolves game. And we still expected them to get the three points against Wolves, which they did not. And even at that, with that expectant three goals, we still felt West Ham, although defensively, they can't keep clean sheets. They have a manager who, at the end of the day, did a much better job at Nottingham Forest than Deich or Postacoglu, although they didn't get very long.

36:58Dan Thomas:But they're the club at the moment that seem to be struggling more to get results. The others, Tottenham will get out of it. So is this the right decision? Is Deich the right man? Well, I mean, in terms of their form and in terms of the ownership, it's not a surprise. when you go to work for Maranakis at Nottingham Forest, it's not a normal football club, the way it's run. It's kind of haphazard. In fact, it's very haphazard behind the scenes. As you know, I don't know Sean Dyche so well, but I know his assistant, Ian Wohan. I was his neighbour for years.

37:40Dan Thomas:And my wife asked his wife about something to do with tickets or mascots or that. and the message came back and said, give it a bit of time, this is not run like a normal football club. Right. Right. So at that point, they knew that if it wasn't, if they weren't getting results, they were out. Right. But they would have known that when they took the job. So you can't be shocked when you're working for this fella because he just hires and fires at will and they are in stoom. They are in stoom since all this Nuno Espirito Santo and Edu and the owner, Since they all get in this sort of head for head, there was only going to be one winner in terms of who kept the job and who lost the job, and that was going to be Nuno losing his job.

38:24Dan Thomas:But that was to the detriment, if we're being honest about it, that was to the detriment of the football club, the team and the results.

38:30Alejandro Moreno:If you want to hear Jules' view on it all, you can check out the latest edition of the Jules and Nadem podcast, which is available to listen to now.

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40:55Alejandro Moreno:Now the FA Cup, of course, returns this weekend. All eyes will be on Monday's tie between Macclesfield and Brentford. Please go to YouTube. Brilliant feature by Alex there as she takes us through exactly what that victory against Crystal Palace meant to the town. Looking ahead to the clash against Brentford on Monday. A game, of course, you can see live on ESPN+. And it's this sort of story, isn't it, Craig, that's kind of the epitome of the FA Cup. Tell you what, Craig, that's such a great way to sum up the cliched magic of the Cup, isn't it?

41:28Dan Thomas:Yeah, I said to you during that piece, I've got so much respect for lads like that, out there grafting in a normal 95 job, coaching kids a couple of days a week, some of them, and then getting out there grafting, getting their opportunity. Because most of them will never play in the Premier League, maybe not in the Championship or even League One, but these are the big moments for them. And they were ten feet tall. And the other thing was, I came across from that interview, they just seemed so grounded, these guys. And to see that PE teacher getting in with all those kids at the end was great.

42:07Dan Thomas:I know they're not going to get the financial windfall or playing away from home against Brentford or a big club, but I think it's a great story that they are home once more at a small ground where they can make it damn difficult for another Premier League team. And I think they will. Whether they win or not, I don't know. But what a chance to write another piece of history on Monday for these boys. What a fantastic story. Actually, you know when some of these pieces are on? I do, Craig.

42:36Alejandro Moreno:I've worked with you for 13 years.

42:37Dan Thomas:Not when we do some of these pieces. I just switch off. I go, I just can't be... But actually, I couldn't stop listening to how these lads spoke and what it meant to them. And that's not money. That's just passion.

42:49Alejandro Moreno:Absolutely, Jules.

42:52Shaka Hislop:Yeah, completely. That's why we love football so much for stories like that. And I don't know if they can do it again on Monday, obviously. Doing it once was pretty special. And I guess they will have the belief that it's another Premier League team, but it's still at their stadium on the artificial pitch in the nighttime this time, not in the afternoon. But, you know, this is something that can happen again. But whether or not it happens, they've made history already. And they did it for Ethan, as we saw in the piece. They did it for themselves. is something that nobody will ever forget. The day that the FA Cup holders, Premier League team as well, were knocked out by a team from the sixth division.

43:28Alejandro Moreno:Thank you very much, Jules. Of course, meanwhile, our feature game today was Barcelona against Atletico Madrid. There was more reaction to that, of course, in the next edition of ESPN FC. Plus, of course, we continue looking ahead and looking back, of course, Chelsea Nation tomorrow in the FA Cup. Right then, Atleti against Barcelona. Let's get some reaction from Dion and Luckman.

43:52Frank Leboeuf:What was to play a game like this today? No, it was amazing today. The energy that the stadium had today was electric. Gave us extra, extra energy. I think in the first 10, 15 minutes of the first half, we showed our intentions and we kept that throughout the game. So that set the tempo for us and we continued that. And we played a great game today. not just in offense but also in defense as well so clean sheet today as well so kudos to everyone

44:22Shaka Hislop:being able to dominate a team like barcelona the way you did scoring so many goals but having so many chances as well and not letting them develop their game how do you do that no just obviously

44:37Frank Leboeuf:i tried to be try to be deadly in the moments in those key moments so it's quite vital in both boxes and today we were very sharp in both boxes, so that was key today and we took our chances well and we kept on playing, kept on creating chances, so that's always a positive. When you create chances, you're always going to score goals, so yeah, it's key. How could you explain what happened tonight?

45:02Shaka Hislop:I think first half was a very poor first half from us. They did very well, but it was also a very poor first half from us. We lost the balls in areas where you can't lose the ball, especially against the team as Atletico because they're waiting for this and then in the counter-attack they They play good because they have a lot of quality they had runners and we suffer too much also our rest defense was not How it should be in those games. So there's a lot of things we can improve. Why was that? I don't know like with the boss sometimes you have days that it's not not working and I think we also played the balls too much into areas where we shouldn't play them.

45:40Shaka Hislop:So that's about choices. And then in the rest of the fans, we were just not well positioned.

45:47Alejandro Moreno:Barcelona, of course, looking to bounce back. Looking to change that 4-0 deficit. The second leg, which is live on ESPN Plus, at 3 p.m. Eastern. So that's just a reminder. March the third against Atleti. And then the other semifinal, Real Sociedad, of course, with a 1-0 lead, going into their clash against Atleti Klopp.

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47:21Alejandro Moreno:Be sure to stay tuned. Extra time is next. Jules back with us. Craig alongside us as well as we answer some of your questions. Most of them about Fastest High Line.

47:35Alejandro Moreno:Welcome in to the latest edition of Extra Time. Jules is here, as is Craig. This is such a stupid question to start. What did I say when we were getting counted out of the programme there? No stupid questions. This is dreamland, but we'll do it anyway for you, Jules. Could you see Spurs going after a big name for their managerial job like Alonso or Xavi?

47:57Shaka Hislop:As we mentioned on the show I think Poch right now Is the front runner We were told yesterday And today again That is the top of the show list What's interesting in this And we mentioned it on the show as well Is I think The experiment in a way I know it's a bit harsh On Thomas Frank to call it like that But this is what it was Of going for A smaller name coach If you want From a smaller club Hasn't worked out And then I think the next one will be and I know before the Mourinho's and contest didn't work either I'm not saying that going for a big name is the key here but I think this is what they're going to do Alonso and Xabi aren't going to want to go to Spurs they don't want to go to Spurs do they Jones?

48:36Shaka Hislop:but as a club no no but as a club you have to try anyway the way they can say is no and then it's okay there's no shame in you trying to get Xabi Alonso if he says no he says no there's no problem but I think if Poch doesn't come for whatever reason I think they'd be right to go after the biggest name first and then see where they get.

48:56Dan Thomas:Yeah, you can go for it. Well, let's not forget, I mean, Xavi Alonso. I mean, I totally agree. You try and get the best you can. The chances of them getting Alonso are very slim. And the Xavi, you know, he had a good year at Barcelona and then he had a really bad one. And there was a lot of problems in the dressing room. That sound familiar if we're talking to him? So I'm not quite sure he has the managerial experience, to be honest with you, to come in. And certainly he's an absolutely wonderful player.

49:25Alejandro Moreno:Yeah.

49:26Dan Thomas:But things went south very quickly at Barcelona at the end. So I'm not quite sure that would be a good fit for Tottenham, to be honest.

49:34Alejandro Moreno:Look, we had a lot of these. Craig, please don't talk about Barca's high line today. Macca was having a breakdown, wasn't he, when they were defending inside the opposition half trying to hide the high line.

49:46Dan Thomas:Well, as you know, I don't know how long we've had La Liga now. Three or four years. I think longer, Craig. But certainly since Hansi Flick has come in, we have talked about it religiously every weekend. And Hansi Flick has beat the press conferences even after bad performances and even after defeats and bad defending and said, no, this is what we're doing. We just need to do it better. Unfortunately, this season, yeah, they're winning the league because Real Madrid somehow are still in the title race. they're winning the league they're still in the Champions League they're still in all these competitions but it's undeniable defensively they are worse than last year and they are taking more risks the high lines became higher it's now halfway line high line as in today in the first leg of the semi-final Copa del Rey they were actually stood in the halfway line trying to play offside with Atleti players who were in their own half and can't be offside I mean it was just bonkers So the fact that it was 4-0 today after 45 minutes was some sort of amazing bemusement because it could have been 6 or 7.

51:04Dan Thomas:But I feel even if it was 6 or 7 with next game out for Barcelona, I still think we'd see the same thing. I mean our Barcelona fans have been a little bit in denial about, well we'll win this and we won that so we'll just get on with it. But I think ultimately, it might not cost him in La Liga, but I do think it'll cost him in the Champions League.

51:26Alejandro Moreno:Meanwhile, anyone who saw the show would have seen Jules actually answer this question. I'm sure you discussed this in the show, but does anyone want to defend Xhocres? This is Xhocres, of course, who had no shots on target or indeed off target today. The least amount of touches in the box and the worst completion pass rate. Yet still you defend him, Jules.

51:47Shaka Hislop:I like him. I like him and now you know I've been I talked about it with Natham today as well oh no they which is no no but listen it's really interesting it's really interesting the goals he scored in Portugal great you can't take that away from him to score 50 goals in a season wherever you play is great in itself but there's there's been many games now since he moved to Arsenal where you saw that maybe the extra second that you would get in Portugal because the level is obviously not as high as in the Premier League was suiting him and he would score that goal. There's a chance, I don't know if you guys remember against Leeds, for example, where Trossard plays the ball over.

52:28Shaka Hislop:It's a reverse pass over the, in behind the Leeds defence and Giocares is through on goal. There's Rodon behind him but he's going, he's going to be one-on-one with Darlow. But there's that extra second again that he's kind of waiting for and by the time he's about to take the shot, Rodon has come back and have blocked the shot. In Portugal, he would have scored his goal every single time. In the Premier League, that half a second or extra second that he takes, because that's what he was used to in Portugal, so why go quicker in Portugal when you can take that extra second, in the Premier League, that doesn't cut it anymore.

53:00Shaka Hislop:And unless he understands that and can change his game slightly, I'm not saying that he needs to transform into Cristiano, but just because the defenders are better here, because the goalkeeper are better, the goalkeepers will be better at saving you a shot than anything he faced in Portugal. Same with the centre-backs. and right now he's just not there yet. He might never be, he might improve on that but it's very obvious to see that he's still very much in Portugal mode when he's one-on-one with the keeper or in the box and that's just right now not good enough for the Premier League to be more prolific.

53:30Dan Thomas:Sometimes I get in Portugal mode but it's usually the Algarve and golf. But, you know, the one thing I'd say about Xhocres and I'm not defending him here anyway, shape or form some of the games he may have had some chances but it's not like it's not like he's a player who's missing a chunk of chances every game when you're saying where's this guy who's finishing at Spolting Club he's not, the pressure for him in the Premier League's too much, he's snatching at it, I think one of the issues for him and it is an issue for him, is that he's not getting, in a lot of the games he's not getting a lot of chances and when you're not getting a lot of chances you have to make those for yourself and he's not that kind of player.

54:15Dan Thomas:You know, if you're not getting the supply line that you want, the other guys who are maybe, they've got more strength to their ball than just scoring goals and being physical and certainly all that sort of stuff might go and make something happen for themselves. Get the ball turned, run it defenders, beat a man, batter it in the top corner. He's not that type of player. So he's relying on the service and that service isn't really coming, if we've been honest about it, he isn't getting, he's not walking off at the end of most games and he's had six chances and he's put five of them over the bar.

54:47Dan Thomas:You can barely remember any chances that he's actually getting. Now, is that all down to Arsenal or is it partly down to him and his movement as well? I don't really have that answer. But he's not scoring a lot of goals, obviously, because he ain't getting a lot of chances.

55:03Alejandro Moreno:Jules, do you really think that Arsenal are going to win the Premier League? You spoke about this on the show as well. You got a bit high and squeaky and defensive over it. So what percentage are you giving us here, Jules?

55:17Shaka Hislop:The four points clear, 60-40 for me. Yeah, I think they will win the Premier League. I think they'll hold on. I think they're the best team in the country. Again, they will drop more points between now and the end of the season. So will City and Vela and everybody else. So I think you have to be ready to sometimes being four points clear, maybe even less, sometimes more. there's obviously the big game in April at the ATR against City which could shape, then I think they've got three games left after that before the end of the season so anything can happen but right now I think if you had said to them at the start of the season by mid-February you would be four points clear of City I think they would have taken it.

55:55Shaka Hislop:60-40?

55:57Dan Thomas:Well yeah I'm at least I'm kind of 70-30 maybe even a bit more, I do think they'll win it and I think they'll win it because I think they all have their hiccups themselves but I think City will have more. I mean they were really good against Fulham yesterday but the game was over in half an hour wasn't it? And I don't think Fulham's record is particularly good at the Etihad. But I think they have more issues to solve notwithstanding the points within their squad than Arsenal have. And I think that'll be but unless Arsenal get this unless they get so tense that they drop another point or two and City as I mentioned in the show just keep chipping away and all of a sudden one or two players in the dressing room have a panic up and it starts to spread through then that could be an issue but I don't think that will happen looking at the size of the squad and the experience of some of the players.

56:52Dan Thomas:One of the interesting things is going to be for me if there is still a three or four point gap by the time they play City at the Etihad, one of the things he's been when he's played in some of the bigger games is really cautious you know happy to soak up the pressure and maybe take a point I know a point would be good in that scenario but if it's if it's quite tight by the time it gets to the game in Manchester is he going to go and try and put it to bed once and for all or is he going to go there and be a little you know unsure and be worried more worried about getting beat than more than winning the game I suppose if it's tight by the time it comes along, we'll find out.

57:31Dan Thomas:But it might not be. By that time, it could be quite a big gap.

57:34Alejandro Moreno:Final question, Jules. Do you usually fall asleep watching Arsenal?

57:41Alejandro Moreno:No, I don't. Why? Should I? I think it's the lack of entertainment. Maybe they serve up. I thought the second half tonight was great. Oh, OK. All right, don't get defensive again. That is it. That brings us to the end of the show. Craig? Oh, it's our last show together before you go on holiday. Why are you coughing? Listen, listen. That's not this business. Well, you're going to be away for a week. People don't know where you are. No, they'd be wondering. Where's Craig? Where's Mr. Sunshine in the corner? Craig is back, though, tomorrow to reflect on Hull against Chelsea. Rexham. And, of course, game...

58:18Alejandro Moreno:Oh, Rexham play. Epswich. You can see those games live on ESPN+.

58:26Frank Leboeuf:From 30 for 30 podcasts.

58:36Dan Thomas:Brian Pata, senior defensive lineman from Miami, gunned down. The key to this case, it's Brian.

58:43Frank Leboeuf:Boy, he scrapped it. An hour before he died, he was on the phone arguing with somebody. This might be a hit. You want the truth. They just want a conviction. We had a killer amongst us. Murder at the U. Listen now.